Snowyamur

Is it Time to Cut the Cord?

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Posted (edited)

Okay, so the content of this post is long, so I split it up to make it easier to read. If you took the time to read this, thanks. If you want to hate on me, go ahead. If I'm wrong about some things, correct me.

 

Intro.

Spoiler

There was a thread I read a while ago regarding how Johnathan and Bethany jumped off the NCSOFT ship and went elsewhere to work. If you don't know who those two were, they worked at NCSOFT as part of Community Engagement, specifically for Blade & Soul, so you probably saw them on Blade & Soul livestreams. Recently, they left, so NCSOFT now has a new team of people to host the streams. The source for this thread, as well as an extra, short video about this situation, are below:

 

Sources:

 

Whether these sources are valid or not isn't the point; the fact is that they exist, are real, and relate to news that happened. There are very few people who keep up-to-date with what happens for this game and inform others about it, given that there's low publicity and media coverage for this game, so I'd credit these people for filling that role.

 

Hearing this news didn't surprise me, but made me open my eyes to the truth that's been coming a long time for this game. In my opinion, what they did was the right thing to do. NCSOFT is clearly a corporate game industry who cares little for their player base. Their events show it, their announcements show it, the way they designed the Hongmoon Store and priced their in-game products shows it; everything they do shows it. They took an interesting game idea, scoped it up, scoped it down, scoped it up again, and when it released, it was good. Then, 2 years running after its release in NA in 2016, it goes bad, and the game is still going down that road today in 2019.

 

What this Game is Now (general explanation)

Spoiler

From NCSOFT, players and fans of the Blade & Soul community get:

 

  • meaningless updates that add nothing new to the game
  • F2P players are significantly weaker and get less than P2W players
  • recycled event concepts that are only changed slightly to "appear new"
  • really unnecessary and strange updates that nerf or buff things that shouldn't be
  • poorly-planned updates that "break" prior game mechanics, having made them useless to begin with
  • events that aren't open to everyone; these are made primarily as end-game content events
  • events whose rewards can be bought through microtransactions
  • events that are severely-restricted because of gear requirements
  • P2W models and updates that include materials and bundles, which can be bought with in-game currency purchased with real money
  • lack of community engagement with the player base (closed door), for NA at least; I don't know how it is in EU and Korea
  • a community full of whales and elitists who don't mind hating on you for saying why this game is bad
  • a slowly dying community and little publicity for the game itself

 

These are just a few of many of the issues with this game, but I wanted to give a general idea of where this game could be headed.

 

Does this sound like a game worth investing time in?

 

Think of it this way. Most updates add more things players can buy from the Hongmoon Store which directly affect the gameplay. About half of the updates include nerfs, buffs, system changes, patch changes, etc. that [somehow] compel players to spend more to gain more, which is P2W. The PvP in this game keeps being changed and becoming more unbalanced. For some reason, NCSOFT thought they could become Fortnite and added the Shackled Isles, which is poorly-balanced and poorly-designed. Who came up with that??

 

Then we have the events. The current Legends Reborn event is a restricted event for high-leveled players; that's not an event, that's END-GAME CONTENT. Not everyone can participate in this event because there's a very high gear requirement to beat a turtle who damages you by running at you, and even if you have high-leveled gear, you'll still lose. On top of that, you can buy the rewards you get off the Hongmoon Store; they aren't limited-time rewards, just recycled materials.

 

Source: https://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/legends-reborn-event-patch-notes/

 

Then there was the Legacy of the Hongmoon Clan event that recently ended, which included the Treasure Trove, Unity system, and Shackled Isles. You had to be at least Level 55 to participate in the Shackled Isles, the Unity System was primarily geared towards those Level 50+, since the quests required to gain Unity were most rewarding around that level, and in order to make effective use of the Treasure Trove, you'd be compelled to spend money. That's not an event; that's END-GAME CONTENT + P2W.

 

From both of these events, there were also ability overhauls that shouldn't have happened and were unnecessary. I don't know why those changes were made, but they happened.

 

Source: https://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/blade-soul-legacy-of-the-hongmoon-clan-patch-notes/

 

Now it's time for the mechanics and design of the game. Upgrading equipment requires a lot of materials that are available to buy with real money off the Hongmoon Store, so people can "buy their way to victory." Legendary equipment can be actually be purchased; I'm not kidding. This is primarily through the Treasure Trove, though. The materials used for upgrades cost a fortune, but hey, you can buy them with real money. Dungeons and bosses were designed with decent mechanics, but this is ruined with poorly-designed gear requirements. In fact, the gear requirements themselves are used for events; why is that a thing??

 

If the problem can't be seen here, the problem is that the direction taken with these updates, announcements, and events are leaning towards the game's whales, elitists, and end-game players; not the new players who can make the game more alive and fun, just those who play this game too much and max a character from Level 1 to 60 in under 6 hours. Should I also mention that this game caters the people who have no problem being toxic towards you when trying to find a Dungeon, and you have the qualifications, but they just go straight to "I should've kicked <player> from the start." 

 

What drives people away from Blade & Soul is not the game itself, but who's running it, how it's being managed, and the P2W model it continues to develop. Honestly, I think a lot of people would be very interested in playing a game like this because it's of a different culture, it has a very beautiful art style, and it's one of the few MMORPG games that's, for all intents and purposes, combat-focused. But it's poorly designed such that you have to pay money to have fun, and that's not a game; that's a product.

 

Aren't videogames products anyways?

 

Yes, and that's why the game industry is failing because there's so much emphasis on shareholders and profit, and those are the main factors that drive game design today; not making what's actually fun to play for the game, just seeing how we can have gamers spend their money on useless, digital goods.

 

Did I forget to mention that Blade & Soul II is going to be a mobile game? Someone told me this is normal because Blade & Soul is an eastern game, not a western game, and I can see that, but still, why this??

 

Point of the Thread

Spoiler

As the title suggests, is it really that time to cut the cord from Blade & Soul, let alone NCSOFT? Personally, I like this game for what it is. It has a beautiful artstyle, decent story, semi-interesting characters, beautiful combat animations and fighting, and overall, the world is just refreshing to see for an MMORPG. However, given where this game is headed, maybe it's just the right time to say goodbye to the game and move on before things get worse.

 

I really don't want this game to die, or have NCSOFT make the decision to withdraw this game from NA because it isn't making enough profit.

 

Yes, that's an actual argument they made; I'm not kidding.

 

But, with what's happening, that idea is becoming a reality.

 

I mean, Johnathan and Bethany left. I won't use those two as the main reasons for why I should cut my own cord from this game, but they worked for Community Engagement; that says a lot already not only about the current state of the game as it fares for the player base, but what NCSOFT's goals are; what they're aiming for, and what they're doing to reach their ends. Them quitting is a sign that NCSOFT isn't catering towards their community; they just keep pumping out updates that cater towards people that pay money for a game, when they shouldn't have to pay at all. 

 

When I look at this game, I see a game with potential. I spend money on this game believing it'll improve, but after the Legacy Reborn event, I was wrong. When I say spend, I don't mean thousands of dollars. I'm not a whale, but I'm becoming one the more I play this game. 

 

This game is becoming more and more reminiscent of a Pay-to-Win game; it's ALREADY a P2W GAME. It's losing focus on what really matters for a thriving game: gaining the trust of the players, making the game fair for everyone in-terms of events, adding fun and exciting content everyone can engage in, and more community engagement itself. It's breeding a community of elitists that will kick you for whatever reason they could find; it's breeding P2W whales that spend thousands to win in Battlegrounds and Dueling; it's breeding a new breed of players to join either side.

 

So again, should we cut our own cords from this game, or stay? For me, I can't cut it because I love my players; sounds like a dumb reason but hey, their Character Creation is at least good, so I'm not complaining about that. But if you're spending too much money to have fun in a F2P game like Blade & Soul, that's probably a sign that you should sever the ties and move on.

 

Thanks for reading guys!

Edited by Snowyamur

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Asuramon   

The only "restrictions" current event has is recoloured lycan wings, TT soul shield 1-3 (hey, you can get 1-5 freebie from msp so who cares) and some octas (who uses events for gems anyway?). So basically only wings. Irrelevant cosmetic. Boo-hoo.
 

"Meaningless updates that bring nothing new to the game". I remember a year or 2 ago people were *complaining* that we're getting updates and content way too fast, making f2p players unable to catch up. Now that it slowed down, someone's unhappy again?

 

You don't really have to spend that much money to be relevant. If you really want something from store you can sell gold or hoard season rewards (in my case this reset I managed to get 15k hmcoins (and 13k of those on 1 main character).

Dungeons and raids are constantly getting nerfed before next tier content even comes out, which I certainly don't think encourages p2w.
 

Honestly, those 2 people that left, good riddance. One of them was already bashed for days on other social media so I don't need to go over that here. The other one no one really cared either way. Point being, ever since they left, people's questions and community interraction have increased immensely, especially on twitter. As for streams - no, they're not *good*, but they're hell of a lot better than what Liinxy and Jonathan gave us, and there's still room for improvement.

I mean, of course the game that runs on money would encourage you to spend money. If there was nothing worth spending money on the funds would run out within weeks.

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5 hours ago, Snowyamur said:

Okay, so the content of this post is long, so I split it up to make it easier to read. If you took the time to read this, thanks. If you want to hate on me, go ahead. If I'm wrong about some things, correct me.

 

Intro.

  Reveal hidden contents

There was a thread I read a while ago regarding how Johnathan and Bethany jumped off the NCSOFT ship and went elsewhere to work. If you don't know who those two were, they worked at NCSOFT as part of Community Engagement, specifically for Blade & Soul, so you probably saw them on Blade & Soul livestreams. Recently, they left, so NCSOFT now has a new team of people to host the streams. The source for this thread, as well as an extra, short video about this situation, are below:

 

Sources:

 

Whether these sources are valid or not isn't the point; the fact is that they exist, are real, and relate to news that happened. There are very few people who keep up-to-date with what happens for this game and inform others about it, given that there's low publicity and media coverage for this game, so I'd credit these people for filling that role.

 

Hearing this news didn't surprise me, but made me open my eyes to the truth that's been coming a long time for this game. In my opinion, what they did was the right thing to do. NCSOFT is clearly a corporate game industry who cares little for their player base. Their events show it, their announcements show it, the way they designed the Hongmoon Store and priced their in-game products shows it; everything they do shows it. They took an interesting game idea, scoped it up, scoped it down, scoped it up again, and when it released, it was good. Then, 2 years running after its release in NA in 2016, it goes bad, and the game is still going down that road today in 2019.

 

What this Game is Now (general explanation)

  Hide contents

 

 

  • meaningless updates that add nothing new to the game
  • F2P players are significantly weaker and get less than P2W players
  • recycled event concepts that are only changed slightly to "appear new"
  • really unnecessary and strange updates that nerf or buff things that shouldn't be
  • poorly-planned updates that "break" prior game mechanics, having made them useless to begin with
  • events that aren't open to everyone; these are made primarily as end-game content events
  • events whose rewards can be bought through microtransactions
  • events that are severely-restricted because of gear requirements
  • P2W models and updates that include materials and bundles, which can be bought with in-game currency purchased with real money
  • lack of community engagement with the player base (closed door), for NA at least; I don't know how it is in EU and Korea
  • a community full of whales and elitists who don't mind hating on you for saying why this game is bad
  • a slowly dying community and little publicity for the game itself

 

 

 

1. People complain where there are no updates and then complain again when there are too many updates. 

2. That is how it should be. In what world do you live in?

3. That is quite right. Event in this game are pretty much boring. But at least this one is fast.

4. That is also debatable. Some people like , some dislike current changes. I am somewhere in the middle.

5. This is related to the above.

6. This can only be referred to the latest event. And I am quite OK with it cuz the rewards are nothing special. However I agree that events shouldnt be gear related.

7. This is how f2p games work. I played Aion for 3 years and now BnS for 3 years. In Aion I spent 10 euros and was top geared player. In BnS I spent likely 100 euros and I am nowhere near endgame. Why? Cuz I dont really grind here as I did in Aion. I am not even in a clan. 

8. That is also thecase in many other games unfortunately.

9. That has nothing to do with the game but the people who play it. And they also exist in other games.

10. Korean games will never be popular in the west. Their rng/grind approach is not accepted here and will never be. Especially the amount of rng they implement in their games. The ony reason they get some players is because of their superior skill/gameplay mechanics over western games. 

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7 hours ago, Asuramon said:

The only "restrictions" current event has is recoloured lycan wings, TT soul shield 1-3 (hey, you can get 1-5 freebie from msp so who cares) and some octas (who uses events for gems anyway?). So basically only wings. Irrelevant cosmetic. Boo-hoo.

Care to elaborate? 1-5 is worthless when it comes to tt. You do need the purple shard thingies.

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Nihilu   
25 minutes ago, MassiveEgo said:

Care to elaborate? 1-5 is worthless when it comes to tt. You do need the purple shard thingies.

I believe he means 1 - 5 piece not the turtle.  You can do it going 1-5 turtle anyways.  Due to the msc requirement for oils you could end up stacking more lesser demon orbs then you can craft into oils.  You can then use those with the yellow shards to make purple to work on TT set.  Yes it will take a while, but combine with the wings you get from weeklies (as if you aren’t running TT you won’t need them for the accesories right away) you could get a basic three piece set in a reasonable amount of time.

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Fiana   
Posted (edited)

ok hold on a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing second... it's good to critict but anoter thing to not acknowledge the progress and effort bns team

 

lets break down ok?

 

- server merge

this is something that already happen several times, and always happen when new raid come

when BT release, they merge server, when VT release they merge server, and soon ET release they merge server again?
why? beacuse it's take a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ing GC 9 and full GC gear to even able do ET raid

 

so you need every GC player in game so ppl can even start a decent raid

 

don't even think your Aranshu 9 can do anything in ET

 

- no progress in game

look, there are tons of update.. so much so it's difficult to catch up with update

new story, new skill, new dungeon, new raid, new class, and soon new engine... as fellow programmer i feel insulted that you not give a slighets amount of respect to dev team

iam sure some of them even now take overtime just to finish the deadline

- the game is P2W

no, i tell you not... you need really huge sum of money to even make a progress in this game, you need tens of thousand $$ if not hunderd of thousand to reach GC 9 atm

 

it's far easier just to play normaly, and do trove casually

 

- event is for whale?

no, i've observe several past event, and it's really good for alt.. last event, the blossom orb thing, i get total 17 sacred orb from my alt and lot gold from doing CS and HM everyday

and for today event it's unfortune that i won't able to get the wing, but it's not a big problem, since the wing just an accessoris, and the rest good thing can be obtained pretty easly

 

- elitis community

is it though? right now you can just do any DG you want and any VT and BT you want without trouble

from what iam experience, the source of elitist attitude is the mech DG
the more difficult mech a DG have, the more high rec gear... why? not because dps, but high gear told them they've experience

there are no way A9 can't do 1st boss DST.. that silly, right? right? i hope so, if not sold your aranshu now to npc... you not deserve that gear

 

 

there are also many good thing that team BNS have done, like keep the market price stable

- this is very few game that not have inflation

- they keep update the story and content

- i've recently see in reddit and forum, a lot admin start to comment on thread

- and many more

 

and this is come from me,

- who can only play several hour after work

- have play since open beta

- have high ping

- f2p

 

of course there are still many problem that exits, like

- bug,

- game performance,

- low fps in raid,

- game crash

- not balanced pvp

 

please buff pvp skill fire FM please :sick: change to ice FM everytime i want pvp is nightmare

 

Edited by Fiana

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Hanuku   

The whole MMO genre in the west is facing pretty much the same hurdles as this game. Lots of decisions that many players don't find favorable. Updates that make some people question things, and a dozen other things (and let's not talk about bugs).

 

Now, should one leave a game (and a company)? I'd say yes, if just being around it makes you make that very question. I personally left Enmasse after they killed Kritika. I left Sega after their PSO2 fiasco. I left Nexon for a bunch of years because they country blocked the games I liked. What I want to get to from this, is that it's always a personal decision. There may be other options, like playing casually and socially without running the whole gear path. At least BnS has shown that they won't leave newbies completely behind. I mean, compared to the gear I ended up with when I first started, the current story gear makes me a near demi god on stuff like Basin and all older dungeons can be safely soloed (just add 25 HM points to combat regen and you'll see how insta-ridiculous old content becomes).

 

Yes, there are places I can't go as a bad, semi disabled player. I still can't kill that damned Yunsang even after trying it 100s of times. I still won't really dare going into harder dungeons in an F8 party, and I still don't have any friends because I'm utterly socially inept. But that doesn't mean I can't have a spot of fun somewhere else. This game keeps all old content, some nerfed, but still there for adventurers to try. Try convincing a friend or two to do an old gunwon/solak dungeon you haven't tried when it was current. Go to plog sanctum or beastbog and derp around. Or get serious and farm a bit to try to push your character closer towards current gear caps. Do not feel pressured by those who flew ahead. The back of the bus can be as fun as the front. If anything, play as a true f2p and don't spend a dime on the game. Because really, if you have to question about cutting the cord, the very first thing you do is to cut the money cord.

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Grimoir   
48 minutes ago, Fiana said:

- no progress in game

look, there are tons of update.. so much so it's difficult to catch up with update

new story, new skill, new dungeon, new raid, new class, and soon new engine... as fellow programmer i feel insulted that you not give a slighets amount of respect to dev team

iam sure some of them even now take overtime just to finish the deadline

There is progress, but it does require a lot grind for materials. Since BnS does not fofer any variety in late end game asside dungeons, they use grind as a barrier to make people play.

If there would be no grind, and you could basically get everything in a week, you would get bored with the content and leave till a new update hits. Given i would like a linear progression for accessories similar to what the weapon has, so you can evolve your current ones into a new one preferably without some new raid material, but it is what it is sadly.

they need to release it faster as players already at the end, have nothing really to play for, while lesser geared players still have enough content to play through.

 

51 minutes ago, Fiana said:

- the game is P2W

no, i tell you not... you need really huge sum of money to even make a progress in this game, you need tens of thousand $$ if not hunderd of thousand to reach GC 9 atm

not true. TT can easily be cleared with Aransu 6-9 weapon, BT accessories and a semi decent soul / badge Heart since msot of the bosses in there take more damage from mechanics than actual dps. For that you dont even need to spend money on the game. the problem is you can just casually pug it because people do not know mechanics, heck, even VT boss 1 is being failed because people do not know mechanics.

 

53 minutes ago, Fiana said:

is it though? right now you can just do any DG you want and any VT and BT you want without trouble

from what iam experience, the source of elitist attitude is the mech DG
the more difficult mech a DG have, the more high rec gear... why? not because dps, but high gear told them they've experience

Exactly. I agree, but also one of the reasons why there are "elitist" in the game are because most the non-elitists are just bad as players...like really bad.

To give an example: i do all my daily runs via F8, and when i see people that cant stun / kd, or people that cant even stay within 5m of the boss, or people that do not go into a circle even tho you tell them to and cause wipes, or Gunners that do not use alpha call the whole run, or warlocks who dont soulburn (sounds crazy but those thingsd actually happen) it literally makes me want to up the party requirements a bit so i can at least hope on getting someone with a brain who wont stack rods at monkey in IF and not cause a wipe.

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Nihilu   

Ok now for the actual topic of the thread.  Building a good and profitable MMO is hard.  There are so many flops out there, and the current mind set of gamers out there makes it even harder.  Pay2Play games are becoming a thing of the past, you need quite the roster of players keeping it going (these games I think should be able to survive off of cosmetic shops, as they are still getting revenue else where).  Even a well known name like Elder Scrolls switched to a B2P game only a year after release (with DLC and progress increasing purchases).

 

i have also seen a view point coming around now where being F2P is a badge of honor.  While it is true F2P players are needed as they inflate a population to keep a game active and healthy, saying “hey I like this game but am not willing to spend money on it” and then complain that there are a few more hurdles is kind of ridiculous, like you said it is a product, and rarely do we get any sort of product for free.  This is a mind set tho, and as players can get a decent experience for free out there, they will jump on that.  This forces companies to find ways to make money, gating content through DLC, putting timers on everything to be sped up, limiting slots in a collection and strategy gearing game, so on and so forth.  While you can upgrade faster with money, at least we don’t have to worry about buying DLC.  

 

With that hat out of the way, the developers are doing better then given credit for.  Yes this event is targeted at a high gear level, it could be that way due to ET coming out.  It is also true the last event/update was amazing for newer players/alts.  You literally just had to log in every day for an hour and a half and be able to get a legendary soul, not run a single dungeon.  With the upgrade to CS and HM they added a great new gold source to the game for newer players.  Combined that with 20th floor, and later OI and you got a descently easy 33 gold for F2P players (I think premium might be throwing off my numbers) along with mats to upgrade in unity (which is cheap till you start refining and still cheap but rng).  You could get 4 dgs if you did the event every day, one short of fusing a badge.

 

All of that is amazing for gear catch up, yes high gear players got it too, but the need for it isn’t as high as it is for new players.  To get your fused badge for some classes is almost needed.  To get a Legendary soul for less then an oil worth of event currency (+gold).  And looking at raven you just need a raid upgrade mat to go from seraph>raven, they are literally making the base raven now.  So the climb to TT is a lot easier.

 

Another thing missed I think is that if they continue with the trend they will basically be giving players an oil a month for just being logged in (3 for premium users, any upgrade to premium is always good).  But yes there are areas to improve still (need better source for gem powders), and threads should be made to highlight them.  But to be so up in arms that one event was built with higher geared players in mind over catch up events is no reason for the forums to have gotten so doom and gloom.  As long as this isn’t the norm, then it will be a drop in the bucket.  There will be a lot more events catering to helping low gear players, while only giving a bit to end gear players.

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Showta   
Posted (edited)

It's a bad event. No game can avoid having a bad event.

They have to think up a new event every month so if you think they or any other company in the entire world is going to think up a perfect event every single month back to back to back you're either out of your mind or you're a super genius who knows all the secrets and should go apply to NC yourself so you can cook up every event we get.

 

NC can only do so much. People hate playing with newbies, they hate teaching anyone anything, they hate each other and then sit there and yell at NC about why their games should be more popular and what NC can do to fix that. No, loudmouths, you need to stop being barbaric first. They could lead in a million new players and 70% of those players would quit once they get a taste of how they'll be treated and that's a fact. They'll try to 6v6 and get told they should F off. Try to do a dungeon and get called names for messing up. Come on. They'll get lost for 3 seconds and get killed/locked out by a fire wall because someones time was too precious to wait, come on.

 

My annoyance with the fake confusion around here aside, I think another important thing to consider is that NA/EU never made as much as KR was expecting them to.

The problem isn't the games population, because the population is average. The problem is the lack of paying customers. and not problem in the sense of "they're poor!!!" but problem in the sense of, KR is a profit hungry beast and if they're not getting the millions they feel they deserve, they'll continue to punish and then eventually yoink the game away from West because it's profits just arent satisfying enough to them.

 

I think a big hint to this was the Golden Lotus event where they expected our playerbase to come up with $400,000 for some event. They posted it confidently as if they thought we'd reach that without even trying within a few days. But that's not what happened. It was a struggle and for the most part turned out to be an outright embarrassment.

 

It was here: https://esports.bladeandsoul.com/en/the-lotus
And here:



Here was a forum post about it:




I think even in NA/EU's best days, KR wasn't happy with the profits. I don't think we've ever satisfied them.
And right now is probably a pretty low point too. But this, they cannot be mad at players about. Players are the ones without a doubt that scare away new players-that much is true. Newbies dont know what white orbs were, newbies dont know or care about the things that pss all of you off. So if someone joins and quits, either they got bored of the story or one of you told them off while they were trying to learn. BUT. When it comes to the profits of BnS, this is not the playerbases fault. This is NC's.

It's NC's fault because they arent providing things and services that make most of us want to spend. They arent encouraging it.
They try to use guilt and force tactics, but instead it turns people away.
The secret to making a person part with their money is to make them happy. Give them something they want in exchange for that money. It can't be gear. That turns too many off. It can't be trove, that's gambling and again turns too many off. It was supposed to be through selling cosmetics, but they hide behind RNG for that. "Well RNG makes them more" it costs them more in the end. They've been shooting themselves in the foot for a solid 3 years now. Sit down and think about what you like to buy and what makes you buy again. If they're at all in any type of panic about income then they need to actually think about what they're doing and try something new. Another reason newbies could be quitting is they join they game and they see they can't even buy 90% of the costumes out there. What are you doing that for? Who cares if some costumes are rare or not, you could have that income of people buying costumes as soon as they join right off the bat but instead you cling on to this weirdo 'everything has to be rare' concept which just irritates people. You're withholding looking like dumdums when that could be a steady flow of income all the time. I dont know, I could very well be wrong but if I'm right then I said what I said.

Edited by Showta

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Laura099   
12 hours ago, Asuramon said:

The only "restrictions" current event has is recoloured lycan wings, TT soul shield 1-3 (hey, you can get 1-5 freebie from msp so who cares) and some octas (who uses events for gems anyway?). So basically only wings. Irrelevant cosmetic. Boo-hoo.
 

"Meaningless updates that bring nothing new to the game". I remember a year or 2 ago people were *complaining* that we're getting updates and content way too fast, making f2p players unable to catch up. Now that it slowed down, someone's unhappy again?

 

You don't really have to spend that much money to be relevant. If you really want something from store you can sell gold or hoard season rewards (in my case this reset I managed to get 15k hmcoins (and 13k of those on 1 main character).

Dungeons and raids are constantly getting nerfed before next tier content even comes out, which I certainly don't think encourages p2w.
 

Honestly, those 2 people that left, good riddance. One of them was already bashed for days on other social media so I don't need to go over that here. The other one no one really cared either way. Point being, ever since they left, people's questions and community interraction have increased immensely, especially on twitter. As for streams - no, they're not *good*, but they're hell of a lot better than what Liinxy and Jonathan gave us, and there's still room for improvement.

I mean, of course the game that runs on money would encourage you to spend money. If there was nothing worth spending money on the funds would run out within weeks.

Actually, there's likely a reason behind this event being farmable, and this does create a minute problem. The highest tier gem we can now get without the aid of events is a hepta gem. Prior to the Legacy of the Hongmoon update, you could obtain the lowest tier, hexa gems, by doing daily challenge, and then salvage it to get gem powder. Albeit a long route, it made upgrading gems possible. Now not only did they remove the ability to salvage hexas (I find this fair as the cost was reduced, and they're given out for free, so kudos), but you can no longer salvage heptas either. This being the highest tier means there is NO SOURCE of GEM POWDERS. So, yes, boo-hoo, the market on gem powders is crashing unless there's someone geared enough AND crazy enough to farm the living ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ out of turtle. I feel this needed to be addressed at least before you go saying "who cares, it's just gems." The people who will kick you for being 2 ap under their requirement care, and yes, those people still exist.

Now since mostly everyone is saying the same thing, I believe it is time to address another topic. People hate. Hate hate hate the story to this game. They despise running through it, taking the time to complete it, it is something they can not stand. But yknow what? Story was arguably the second best thing about this game, prior to a certain update that god rid of every damn weapon and accessory to upgrade.
"Oh but it saves so much time and money" That's not the point of a game. You don't sit there and assblast through the game itself to sit there contemplating how to get gold to upgrade your gear to meet the stupidly high standards people have now set for dungeons (aransu 3 for HH and up, monkachrist. I cleared TT with A6, you saying HH is near as hard as TT?). The point of an mmo is to progressively play through the game and story, with this games concepts of raids being "side stories" which i DO like, whilst interacting with other players. Nowadays the only interaction you get is "whos 2? Im 2. You're 2? Where tf was 2". Of course that doesn't apply to all people, I've had plenty of nice chit chats and memes during raids and dungeons, but usually that requires prior connections.
Another issue with removing the previous weapon upgrade path and accessory, of course, is that it remove well over 70% of this game's content. Field Bosses are avoided like the plague, there's no point in doing green dungeons, only achievement farmers do blue dungeons, and even many purple dungeons are now skipped over because they are useless, and that is a fact. And as a result? No more blue dungeons, no more field bosses, no more open world content. Is this an mmo or a dungeon crawler? ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤, elsword has more openworld content, and THAT is saying something.
While, yes, many changes that people are displeased with are unpreventable and perhaps necessary, albeit not the best, you have to ask yourself. Is an mmo that removes it's own content then denies new content a good mmo? Say the dev teams are working hard as much as you want. Stupid is still stupid.

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Hanuku   
1 hour ago, Laura099 said:

People hate. Hate hate hate the story to this game. They despise running through it, taking the time to complete it, it is something they can not stand. But yknow what? Story was arguably the second best thing about this game, prior to a certain update that god rid of every damn weapon and accessory to upgrade.

Agree with many things you said but not about story.... at least when it's regarding our characters. Everyone else in the story seems to behave like a normal human being, but our MC is designed to act like a bumbling idiot who gets one shot even by children! In fact, most of the big bads have obtained their power or have done their evil deeds after the MC allowed it, caused it, or facilitated it. So no, I can't fully enjoy the story of this game. Anyway, I'm derailing the thread but I had to explode on that one. other than that, yeah. people need to calm down a bit and play for entertainment. Not as a second job.

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Fieryfly   

I love this game.. for the most part I do not spend in the game like many do. Last event was great for gems.. this one is too. so far I have created 4 gilded squares for almost no cost. The mega whales will tire from being bored..  and leave game.. always happens..  these whales help pave the way for new content.. the sad thing currently is F5 is broken.. market is the heart of this game, if people cant access it.. the game will not survive. When the pay to win F-10 is broken they spare no time to fix it..  I chuckle at the GM's for not fixing this simple thing.  The one thing that kills it for most people.. is the lack of attention to inoperative game function. 
I have one of the fastest desktop's in my clan and I freeze as if my PC is a  Duo core.  Matters not really where I spend money for my entertainment. The day is coming when gaming oversight rules gaming companies.
The graphics bug in MSP bosses 4,5,6 Drowning Deeps 2nd boss and other locations where water collisions is freezing game.. is causing people to leave game permanently. 

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RavTH   

me and my clan and a lot of associated clans also don't play anymore but I agree that they need to do something before CASUAL players and Free To Play will leave this game and what will be left is like 50 people that play only because they feel too invested to leave the game by the money and the time they've spent.

It's 2019 and it's just the 4th month and new upcomming mmos will probably get players from bns by their first impressions, if they don't do anything about the game and the status it is right now not to mention hackers?  *cough* *cough* lv29 sum top 1v1 *cough* *cough* then the game will surely not survive 2020.

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Nylena   

What MMOs have become saddens me. I look back at the golden age of UO and EQ1 and I miss them so bad.

Microtransactions are killing gaming. I never minded paying full price and monthly subscriptions and having to earn things in game.

The current models suck.

 

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23 hours ago, Asuramon said:

The only "restrictions" current event has is recoloured lycan wings, TT soul shield 1-3 (hey, you can get 1-5 freebie from msp so who cares) and some octas (who uses events for gems anyway?). So basically only wings. Irrelevant cosmetic. Boo-hoo.

By restrictions, I meant that the Legends Reborn event requires players to be at a high-level and have high-tier gear in order to participate in the event. That's a restriction that goes against players that just join the game, or just found out about Blade & Soul because of this event.

 

Events for any videogame should be open and optional to everyone, not just high-leveled, top-geared players. It makes the "event" sound akin to end-game content, and there's nothing wrong with end-game content, but when such content is announced as an event, that's bad. However, not every event must be open to everyone guaranteed; going down that route would severely-restrict what events can be made. 

 

Some events could be open-world events, and if players haven't unlocked a certain zone in which the event is taking place, then that's a restriction, but it's a fair one. Events with these kinds of restrictions are fair because they're obtainable and not primarily determined by RNG or grinding time. Yes, players will need to grind through the story to unlock zones, but that's not as bad as grinding for gear, and for Blade & Soul, grinding through the entire Campaign already rewards high-leveled gear, on top of unlocking all the zones.

 

Gear requirement as an event restriction is problematic because not every player has the best gear, so when an event can only reward players for killing a very high-leveled, high-health boss within a very short time limit, and certain gear is required, that's a very restricted event, and it's fun for some, but not for everyone.

 

23 hours ago, Asuramon said:

"Meaningless updates that bring nothing new to the game". I remember a year or 2 ago people were *complaining* that we're getting updates and content way too fast, making f2p players unable to catch up. Now that it slowed down, someone's unhappy again?

Speed of update deployment doesn't matter when considering whether an update to a game was the right choice or not. Games could be updated quickly or slowly, but if the updates for either don't make sense, are irrelevant, and/ or dull, then it doesn't matter how fast they were programmed and deployed.

 

I guess I shouldn't have phrased the term "meaningless updates" because every announcement, there's a long page of class and system updates, so it's my guess that lots of changes are being made. However, I phrased it that way because when I compare the updates today compared to the updates 2 years ago when Blade & Soul released in NA, those updates added lots of new content and were enriching; today's updates focus heavily on the Hongmoon Store and these "events."

 

Hongmoon Store updates aren't bad because they notify players of new items, but when that becomes a primary over other important news to announce, that's a problem.

 

23 hours ago, Asuramon said:

You don't really have to spend that much money to be relevant. If you really want something from store you can sell gold or hoard season rewards (in my case this reset I managed to get 15k hmcoins (and 13k of those on 1 main character).

It's not a matter of relevance; it's a matter of what players can get in-game using real money. Microtransactions continue tainting the gaming culture, but they are necessary for running a F2P game since that's the primary source of income for the industry that developed the game. However, for Blade & Soul, the reason why many consider this game a P2W is because players can purchase materials that directly-affect the gameplay using real money.

 

Materials in this game are used to upgrade weapons, and all of them have to be farmed one way or another. Offering the option to buy materials with cash generates more income for the industry, but it turns the game into a P2W model because there will be those player "whales" that spend thousands to be at the top. This was the case with Perfect World; and it's still a problem in that game today, but not as bad as it was many years ago.

 

Bottom-line is this: if what a player buys through microtransactions affects their gameplay in any way, be it making them stronger, deal more damage, have better buffs, etc., it's a P2W model. If it's just cosmetics, than it's paying for enjoyment, or paying for something a player wants that won't make them any stronger than other players.

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13 hours ago, Fiana said:

- no progress in game

look, there are tons of update.. so much so it's difficult to catch up with update

new story, new skill, new dungeon, new raid, new class, and soon new engine... as fellow programmer i feel insulted that you not give a slighets amount of respect to dev team

iam sure some of them even now take overtime just to finish the deadline
 

I didn't make this thread to insult the NCSOFT development team; I made it to raise a question as to whether it's worthwhile to continue playing this game seeing as what's being done to the game in its current state. In no means am I offending game developers in this thread; if you feel insulted, I'm not trying to insult you. In fact, I didn't make this thread with malicious intent to call out how bad NCSOFT's development team is.

 

Also... just because you're a programmer, that doesn't mean you know how game programming works. If you work in a game industry, hats off to you; you know how it works. If you don't, you could be in software development, but that's not the same as game development. 

 

I'm a game developer myself, and I've managed and worked with game dev teams during my time in college. I've coordinated with people and taught them source control, Unity, data management, task management, workflow with Git, and other topics of interest to game developers. I continue working as a game designer on an off-job project with 2 other game developers on improving the state of a Garry's Mod source game that's still being improved and used today.

 

I'm derailing the topic here, but my point here is this: don't claim that someone is disrespecting a game development team, and don't say that as a programmer, you're insulted. That's being sensitive about something not even implied, and that's going along with the "YouTubers don't know how game dev works" argument that gets tossed around a lot in the industry when YouTubers whine about why a game is broken, or why something "simple" can't be fixed easily.

 

The argument made here is also a poor argument for this case because I'm not insulting NCSOFT's game dev team; I'm insulting their executive decisions made for this game. Their decisions are clearly meant to garner more cash cows, and they continue being made today.

 

13 hours ago, Fiana said:


- the game is P2W

no, i tell you not... you need really huge sum of money to even make a progress in this game, you need tens of thousand $$ if not hunderd of thousand to reach GC 9 atm

 

it's far easier just to play normaly, and do trove casually

Progress matters, but at what stage in progression doesn't matter. If a game is offering items for players to spend real money on that directly affect the gameplay, it adheres to a P2W model. If a player can spend money on in-game currency to purchase materials through microtransactions, those of which can be used to upgrade gear to high levels, thereby making the character stronger, it's P2W.

 

When players hit the end-game, it's all about farming, and upgrading gear makes the character stronger. You need materials to upgrade said gear, and these materials can be bought. Given that this game has PvP, P2W is a valid argument here because players that spend more money on upgrades and materials will usually be stronger than players that don't spend anything. Even if they spend thousands of dollars to upgrade their gear, and they aren't up to par with a player who's stronger than them, the spender wins because they have more, and they get more than what a player who grinds through the game could receive on a daily basis.

 

I agree, it's easier to just play normally, and it's financially-conserving, but if someone is a PvPer in this game, they're going to have a miserable time because whales will dominate the chain of competition; not the casual players.

 

It's also true Trove could be done casually, but that makes it a worthless system because you only get one key daily.

 

14 hours ago, Fiana said:

- event is for whale?

no, i've observe several past event, and it's really good for alt.. last event, the blossom orb thing, i get total 17 sacred orb from my alt and lot gold from doing CS and HM everyday

and for today event it's unfortune that i won't able to get the wing, but it's not a big problem, since the wing just an accessoris, and the rest good thing can be obtained pretty easly

I didn't say the event was for whales per say, but it's heavily-restricted such that it can favor for whales. Being restricted from any event isn't fun, and the Legends Reborn restricts a large portion of the Blade & Soul community from playing. Only those who've played this game for a long time, or continue grinding in this game can participate; casual and new players can't, and that's what's bad about this event.

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13 hours ago, Hanuku said:

The whole MMO genre in the west is facing pretty much the same hurdles as this game. Lots of decisions that many players don't find favorable. Updates that make some people question things, and a dozen other things (and let's not talk about bugs).

Agreed. The western gaming industry continues facing these issues, but the eastern gaming industry faces greed and P2W problems.

 

13 hours ago, Hanuku said:

If anything, play as a true f2p and don't spend a dime on the game. Because really, if you have to question about cutting the cord, the very first thing you do is to cut the money cord.

That's a fair statement, and I agree with that. If I start wondering whether I should continue playing this game, I should think about my wallet, since it's so involved with this game.

 

However, I brought up the idea of "severing the cord" from this game primarily from the recent announcements being made publicly.

 

Server-merging? That's a bad sign that player population is much lower than what's considered "safe." People could argue with me as to why I should care how populated servers are, and the reason I care is because how many people play a game determines how alive it is, especially if this game is an MMORPG. Some may argue that's not the case, but I say it is for publicity reasons. The more people that play a game, the more attention it gets. It's like finding a place to eat. Newcomers or tourists would prefer to try out a restaurant that's populated than a restaurant that's empty because they know populated means good food, while empty means bad food. Same thing with Blade & Soul; if more people play it, the more publicity and attention it gets, and the more players it receives because it gives the impression that the game is good.

 

An event that's this restricted? I'm talking about the Legends Reborn event. It's not restricted because of the cosmetics; it's restricted because not everyone can participate in it. An event is an event if everyone can have their go at it, if they can't, it's more like end-game or locked content. I've explained what this meant across different posts, so I won't explain it here.

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Posted (edited)
13 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Exactly. I agree, but also one of the reasons why there are "elitist" in the game are because most the non-elitists are just bad as players...like really bad.

To give an example: i do all my daily runs via F8, and when i see people that cant stun / kd, or people that cant even stay within 5m of the boss, or people that do not go into a circle even tho you tell them to and cause wipes, or Gunners that do not use alpha call the whole run, or warlocks who dont soulburn (sounds crazy but those thingsd actually happen) it literally makes me want to up the party requirements a bit so i can at least hope on getting someone with a brain who wont stack rods at monkey in IF and not cause a wipe.

Players come in all shapes and sizes. The reason I personally don't like elitists is the way they handle situations when a player doesn't know how boss mechanics work. They become elitist because they think of themselves smart, but they forget that they were n00bs at some point in their climb to better-understanding this game, and they fail to acknowledge that. So when they come across someone who was their former self, they treat them as if they were stupid, and that's rude not only to the person, but oneself for not understanding that they are looking at themselves in a mirror.

 

Yes, there are players who will tell the newcomers what to do and how certain mechanics work in a civil manner, but there are those who won't approach it this way. Nowadays, when it comes to legendary dungeons and people queuing up for a party, there are players, notably the party leader, who will look at your gear level. It's important to have people with the right equipment, but elitists straight-up kick players sometimes, and this is becoming more common.

 

Worse of all is that if a newcomer dies or fails to understand a mechanic you just told them, people acknowledge that player as stupid right away. That's berating them, and that doesn't help them. Maybe they didn't hear you, maybe you used game terminology they didn't understand, or maybe you explained the mechanics in a way that was short but incomprehensible to save one's life. Regardless, players assume these players are stupid without acknowledging the situation they could've been in, or just asking them why they did what they did, so they yell and insult their intelligence for no good reason.

 

Games bring out the worst of people, and this is an example of it. Not a perfect example, but an example nonetheless.

Edited by Snowyamur

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3 hours ago, Nylena said:

What MMOs have become saddens me. I look back at the golden age of UO and EQ1 and I miss them so bad.

Microtransactions are killing gaming. I never minded paying full price and monthly subscriptions and having to earn things in game.

The current models suck.

We really need to stop comparing one game to another. It's better to look at what made a game good, and adapt that principle to another game to make it better; that's how change works in a positive way.

 

Also, microtransactions are killing gaming, that's for sure, but there's nothing that can be fixed. The damage is already done.

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Viblo   

As much as I liked Jonathan, I think Blade & Soul got more of a face and a personality with the new crew. Linda Hime, Justin Irwin, and Brett Jaxel that are hosting the livestreams are putting up a much better face for the game imo, and I personally feel more inclined to support the game in whatever means I can.

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Hanuku   

Well I managed to do stage 3 turtle yesterday with my 120K dps BD. I didn't try the event dungeon because I didn't have time, and the connection was acting up (yesterday's dungeon daily gave me more trouble than it was worth). So I can say you can do SOME part of the event with a low DPS character. I'd have to see if my character and play style can make it on the event dungeon. But for now, I don'f feel AS bad as before about it all. Sure, the event hasn't changed one bit for anyone else from yesterday to today, but as I observe things from different angles, I can make more informed statements about it. Though, really, what's to say about a turtle with rather slow attacks and an enrage timer?...

 

As for elitism, some people will give low/no respect to players who have not "proven themselves". Is it fair? I believe not, but me and them have different beliefs. Gear is also a sort of proof, either that you did a grind, or that you at least can put some dps, even if it's at the bottom of that gear's ability because you just whaled it. This gear may also work as a safety net, since a low skill player with good gear will still do more dps than a low skill player with lesser gear. At least that's how some people see it as I've witnessed on other game forums, so don't take this as my own idea.

 

As for in-dungeon teaching, nobody is forced to do it. Those who do it go beyond their call to help others, and that's always the preferred behavior. But really, nobody is forced to teach anyone in the dungeon. By Western gamer mentality, people should instead go for outside guides before doing said dungeons. Again my example. Before yesterday, I have never done any of the modern dungeons, so I wasn't even collecting on daily challenges. Now that I improved my character a tiny little bit, I decided to try my hand at them. Yesterday's daily was Irontech so I went for that one. What was the first thing I did? I watched a video. Sure, I'm an 80's gamer. I played back then with the "play to learn" mentality. But that was when most games were single player or pvp and had no co op. Now things are different and my failure will drag down other players. Also add my current health to the problems.

 

So in understanding to the current mentality, I went for the guide way. Did I understand it all? Not completely. The old irontech was a slowpoke's nightmare, with color coding for attack and defense phases, constantly shifting positioning for tanks and DPS, and a bunch of one shot mechs. So I went with that mentality anyway because that was the guide I had on it. You can't imagine my huge poker face when we downed the boss in around 1 minute something. The other player just said "hey, this was nerfed and that's what we have now". Still, I think I did the homework and went somewhat prepared. So if I, a bad and lazy player, could do a little research on it, why can't others? In the end, yeah, I still believe elitism is bad. Respect should be a basic thing that goes both ways regardless of any other thing. But I also believe that if you are joining something in a co op game, remember that your performance affects others, not only you.

 

Lastly, about monetization, I also agree that most micro transaction models could use a fairer approach. Too much p2w stuff that does nothing but divide player bases. Sure, f2ps still have an important role in the scheme, as those are the ones who usually farm gear and resources whales then buy up. But when the companies circumvent this and instead feed whales themselves, f2ps are essentially kicked out of the loop and eventually, the whole thing goes down, because as much as whales pay up, once a game is denominated p2w and whale country, it's popularity drops significantly. Since we already know how much money whales can put into a game to get their high tier shinies, leaving mostly f2p newbies in an impossible position, unable to even catch up at all. And as such, whales themselves eventually get bored of it and move on to other games, causing server mergers and eventually full game closures.

 

Another problem I see is that, similar to what happened in the 83' video game crash, I'm seeing way too many low quality games inundating the market. At least here in the West, Korean dev studios are responsible of releasing quite a bunch of MMOs of very differing quality. And they don't seem intent on stopping any time soon. At least we are somewhat shielded from the completely looney amount of such games in the East, but still a few spill to here, further damaging the credibility of the MMO genre, and splitting players more and more. Meaning, a big change will occur if something isn't done soon enough. What will it be? I don't know. Could it be another crash? I doubt it. But it will still be a change nonetheless, and some people may not like it.

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On 4/16/2019 at 10:25 AM, Viblo said:

As much as I liked Jonathan, I think Blade & Soul got more of a face and a personality with the new crew. Linda Hime, Justin Irwin, and Brett Jaxel that are hosting the livestreams are putting up a much better face for the game imo, and I personally feel more inclined to support the game in whatever means I can.

That's good to hear, but the problem still recurring with Blade & Soul is that it isn't generating enough publicity. It's an eastern game, so marketing it in the west is difficult; if it caters more to a western audience, while continuing to favor the east, the game would be much better off.

 

Unfortunately, I don't see that happening anytime soon.

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TaruV   

Money spent on trove: 0

Money spent on F10: 0

Money spent on subscription: 0

 

...since the grand orb heist.

 

Normally I would have bought a subscription when trove ended and daily dash came back. I would've bought a few octa gem bundles and spruced up my alts a bit. But I didn't. Why? There's this lingering resentment over what I perceive as unfair treatment. Some awful new idle animations I can't remove or rollback. There's a server merge incoming and who knows what kind of technical (and other) issues that will bring about. All this put together really doesn't make me want to spend money on the game.

 

Most importantly, I can't trust anything NC tells me, because it could be another... miscommunication. It's clear they're not going to take responsibility for their mistakes, and we get to pay the price. I'm not okay with that. So, my dolphin money has stopped flowing in until something changes.

 

Every single problem BnS has could be fixed, except maybe the unpleasant playerbase. But it'll take serious effort, not just coasting along on gamble packs and whale milking. Where to start? Make up for the white orb disaster. Don't bury your heads in the sand and expect the problem to go away on its own. One copper per antiquated item is an insult, after we were told they could be exchanged for current items. NC, you can be stubborn about this, but it'll cost you paying customers. If we shut up, it just means we've left, not that you've managed to wear us out with silence.

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Nyvva   
Posted (edited)

I don't mind paying some money & time for fun. But it has to be fun. Even worse fps in raids like TT, bait-and-switch on white orb and demon spirit stone, adding the gold cost to open the new scambox, and an exclusive double-currency event that is rather useless in the marginal profit to both the well-geared and the undergeared...

 

Now tell me what do I win for paying you? And what is the point of paying to skip playing, if playing is the fun of games?

Edited by Nyvva

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