AttacKat

Too all those LAME high AP dungeon requests ...

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One thing about OP's level 49 party: the group composition is comparatively low DPS, has a BM as a DPS, still thumps DPS requirement. Good group with right comp (dump BM and a DES for WL and Sin) could do it around 350 AP.

 

Anyhow, the asinine behavior of people demanding high AP is exactly why they have bad groups. Back in FF14, I used to teach people how to do content. I pugged literally every piece of content through 2.1, duty finder EX primals and all (obviously had to party finder BC, since you couldn't DF it then). Knowing your job and being willing to teach others would make your life a lot easier. I had a >50% success rate with completely fresh players in Garuda EX, while PF groups were begging for ilvl82+ and similar nonsense because they couldn't stop failing. I'm not incredibly lucky or anything, I just have the sense to explain things to people and correct mistakes, and boom, it's done. People would end up trying to gear instead of trying to learn how to play, and they would just fail in the end because of it. That lead to "elitist" postings on the PF which failed more than undergeared DF pugs. Challenge content in B&S is vastly, vastly, vastly easier in terms of mechanics than that old stuff was, but the problem is the same: learn how to do it, and you don't need huge gear. Elitist attitudes end up hurting everyone, including the elitist players.

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AttacKat   
5 hours ago, HUnewearl said:

Anyhow, the asinine behavior of people demanding high AP is exactly why they have bad groups. ...

I had a >50% success rate with completely fresh players in Garuda EX, while PF groups were begging for ilvl82+ and similar nonsense because they couldn't stop failing. I'm not incredibly lucky or anything, I just have the sense to explain things to people and correct mistakes, and boom, it's done. People would end up trying to gear instead of trying to learn how to play, and they would just fail in the end because of it. That lead to "elitist" postings on the PF which failed more than undergeared DF pugs. Challenge content in B&S is vastly, vastly, vastly easier in terms of mechanics than that old stuff was, but the problem is the same: learn how to do it, and you don't need huge gear. Elitist attitudes end up hurting everyone, including the elitist players.

LOL, I remember that fight well ... Tank aggros, party dump serious DPS, healer make sure tank stays alive, when she does a given move, you ALL run behind the rocks, or you pretty much seeking party wipe by the 3rd time she does her AOE move, no amount of iLvl is going to save your a** there; and that is only the 1st phase.

 

Sad thing is, I see this all the time in PUG Yeti. You tell them to run into the ice rings, yet, by the 3rd time you tell them, you still see at least 3-4 rings around before he jump. Pretty much the same story, high AP isn't going to save you there either.

 

You are right. BnS is much easier. At least we don't have to do the aggro->dps-> dash to your left, aggro -> run behind the boss, you got <2 seconds, rinse and repeat for multiple phases for the next 15 minutes style of game play like FF14 ARR.

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Gabyyy   

Hey man, this is such a ridiculous thread !

 

So YOU want the stuffed players (a.k.a 500+ ap guys) to runs with people with low gear because the requirement to beat the dungeon is low.

 

I agree with you on this but eh these people including me have spent enough time to gear up to not play with low gear people, because we want fast and safe run ?!

 

You misleading here, you can make your own group or start random lfg if you wanna do the dungeon, don't blame the people who played enough to be geared to play with you

 

Those requirements are not the minimum to clear the dungeon, it's for fast and smooth run, we don't want to waste time there as there is a lot of dailies to do and even more when you have alts.

 

So basically you blaming people who played a lot because you can't to gear up and join 500+ parties.

 

Just join parties with similar stuff you have and don't *cricket* on others, that's hypocrisy.

 

Ofc BSH don't need 450 or 480 AP, but people asking for this, doing this on purpose and it's not a fancy thing, we do want fast runs, and do the 40 dailies asap so we can move on.

 

That's all, I have people with low gear on my guild, ofc i run with them but if they want do to the dungeon they always find a group easy by making their own or LFG.

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kv2004   

This topic is so stupid. Ppl recruit high ap doesn't mean they cant run it with low ap. But they just prefer to play more casual/relax. It is their on right to do it, why get mad?

Plus the logic of the youtube prove is also stupid. My party farm 4-yeti with 3 man, so we can add somone with 100ap to our party, so that 100 ap guy can make youtube to "proof" 100 ap is enough for 4 man yeti.

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Yeti can be done fine with 400AP and some dungeons with much lower but usually it's a matter of do I either have the time to potential spend or do I want to risk spending excess amounts of time in a dungeon. I started on BSC and BSH way back at like I think it was 346AP and began Yeti runs with 421AP. I don't play nearly as much as I used to so my gear upgrading is slow now days, been at 461AP for a while but will make more time to get geared better when I get around to it. My thing is since a lot of times, my time is limited, I'll either post or look for 450AP or higher groups so that I can run the lvl50 heroic dungeons fast and ensure I don't miss them because real life always takes priority for me. However, many of these 500AP and higher groups are most likely people farming and they simply want to get as many runs as possible done in the least amount of time.

 

There is no shortage of 400-450AP Yeti runs and if no one is announcing one then it's easy enough to announce one yourself and it will fill up fast, usually instantly on Soha. Now times like let's say, if I'm on here on a Saturday night meaning I stayed home then I won't be in any rush so I'll run with groups of most any AP. If I run with people in my clan then I don't care about their AP but random players in pugs, I don't know how good or bad they are so sometimes I just don't want to risk it. The other day in an awakened necropolis run, all was fine, no one noticed but we had a 313AP player. We noticed when they died fast during the defend segment and someone in group didn't like a 313AP being there so that person left and 2 more and well that made for time being completely wasted by having to leave and start all over.

 

Now if the person had been like 380-390AP, maybe it would have been ok but they weren't even true profane and attempting the current 2nd top dungeon. There are elitists but those people are in all MMOs, however, most people posting higher AP requirements are either looking for a fast smooth run or are farming and want each run to be fast since they intend to do several runs. Far as BSC and BSH goes though, sometimes it's nice to get a 450AP or higher group just to get it over with because many of us have already run those two dungeons on so many characters, so many times that we'd really rather not spend more time than needed in it and likely just doing it for a quick daily and maybe towards more achievements.

 

I will say though, I would like to see an option to type in an AP requirement and if a player does not meet the AP requirement then the announcement won't show up for them. This would help because I see so many 490-550AP announcements, the party finder just goes and goes and it can be easy to miss someone announcing something I want to run so being able to be forcefully filtered from that would benefit both sides involved. People creating the group would not have to check AP and people that cannot join that group would not have to potentially scroll to join a dungeon lobby they missed.

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Formus   

Experience are the key to finish dungs, but experience are NOT measurable.

 

High AP is the only real measurable stat which can define player's exp (except achievements, but they aren't visible in the cross server lobby) which logically means that a guy with higher AP is more experienced in dung than a guy with lower AP -> Higher AP = Higher chance to finish dung without fails. And that's what's going on, right?

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Hongmoon   
5 hours ago, Gabyyy said:

stuff

I have 500+ ap and could literally care less about other people's gear. But I see other people complaining about lower gear people all the time, then watch them quit. I'm gonna carry the party anyway, so it doesn't bother me, but it shows that those people don't care about smooth runs. They just want to be an elitist asswipe. The current content is retardedly easy. So easy, that 1 person can carry a braindead team. There's no reason to cry about other people's gear when you're just looking to get carried anyway by 5 other top geared people.

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katanaK   

normally ppl ask ap requirement for a fast run; experienced player can prob do 4yeti 2/3m

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Shorsh   

IDC about AP requirement unless you are rocking Tomb Of Exiles crap.

When I recruit for any dungeon i put random number 450+ AP for example just to get people in.
Sometimes people with low AP join and ask if its okay if they stay and i tell them IDC just press Ready.

 

 

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Purestic   

Honestly, I'm one of those people that blame low-AP players. Yup. 2-3 days ago I was in a 480+ party for Yeti, someone DC'd and we recruited a new player. We got someone with 250AP. Sorry, even if you don't *cricket* anything up you're just a leecher. Even 350 AP is pretty low at this point . You don't need 500 AP but atleast be over 400 please. 400 AP is reasonably enough for the current 6 man content and no one should blame you for that, but 250AP at Lvl50? No way, you shouldn't even be in the blue dungeons if you ask me.

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Meiling   

I don't understand why people  complain about others wanting higher AP. 6 man, I don't care if your AP is 420 or 450. However, I 100% understand why people would look for higher AP for a run. I've never did F8 4 man, I normally do 6 man runs with random F8, back when I did naryu, doing a random F8 run took me 3x longer with the group I finally settled with than doing it with a 4 man group with people with higher AP and ones that know what they're doing in 6 man runs. It all comes down to speed, people want to quickly do runs so they don't waste extra time doing a crappy dungeon cause at the end of the day, a group with 500 + ap compared to 400-450 will get it done much faster. Of course, that's if they both have the same amount of skill knowledge to run the dungeon.

Just accept the fact that people want higher AP and move on with your life, it's not everyone that looks for it, you'll always have a chance to run dungeons even if you use the cancer called F8..... I ended up getting someone under 300 AP with a siren weapon. No, not the upgraded one, the literal drop. 

Just get your own group to run the place and split the drops if you want to farm dungeons, that's what I do and is the best way to do dungeon runs.

All you are doing is complaining about peoples preferences to do content because they would rather take their luck with people that have higher AP than  try with lower AP.

Edited by Meiling

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I think the 400 AP minimum people were requesting for Labyrinth before we got Silverfrost is good enough for pretty much every content we have right now. From there, it's a matter of knowing the dungeons and your class roles in each of them.

 

You can reach that value easily by having True Profane weapon with 25 AP Diamond and Awakened Infernal accessories and reaching lvl 50. A good purple SS set works wonders as well. Bloodshade still is good enough for the most part (and a bit easier to get too, partially thanks to its 24-man version, barren as it may be currently), but try aiming for Labyrinth since it's still the basis for the current BiS while you farm for full Yeti or Yeti + Scorpio.

 

Only thing left is the partying aspect. LFP is a thing, but so are clans and factions. Use either or both to set up a party before moving to cross-server for convenience. As in make a party with people you know and trust first, THEN move to cross-server.

Edited by Tsuchiryu

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My warlock is at 613 AP, when I run yeti or anything else I just go with what I'm matched up with.

Not see the point in waiting 20 mins to a hour to find a perfect team.

 

Then when Im done doing Dailies and main dungeons, I spend cpl hours just helping lower levels get thru stuff.

Rather have many friends then just 3-5 people that have high AP, cause you never know when those people could be banned or just grow bored and move onto something else.

 

But I'll say this I've seen 500+ ap groups 6 man that still die on Yeti, cause they dont know the mechanics of boss fights

Then go WTH the person with 450 ap is carrying the group....

 

I rather have a group of 420+ ap people that know their skills and mechanic of a boss fights. Then a  500+ ap team that dont know mechanic or when proper time to use skills

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MerlinBG   
54 minutes ago, WADofMEAT said:

But I'll say this I've seen 500+ ap groups 6 man that still die on Yeti, cause they dont know the mechanics of boss fights

Then go WTH the person with 450 ap is carrying the group....

 

I rather have a group of 420+ ap people that know their skills and mechanic of a boss fights. Then a  500+ ap team that dont know mechanic or when proper time to use skills

^ THAT!!

 

It's unbelievable how often high-AP groups fail yeti. I run the instance since 360 AP, in similar AP group and it works just fine if everyone knows what to do.

Last times I started "450+ exp run" in cross server... well... we failed miserably, 4 ppl dead on the ground most of the time... DISASTER.

lol, last time we had even one 600+ in the party. Guess who was first to die?

 

 

Edited by MerlinBG

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Shukran   

STATISTICALLY  it is easier to see low ap groups failing yeti than 500+

 

just pointing at few retarded groups is easier. noone is complaining about low ap players being noobs.

 

oh, you!

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crb1   

I do 550 AP +  so I dont have to carry players like attacCAt. ALSO i'm a summoner and I have 601 AP ... if i go into a party with people at 450 AP I will have to tank everything which is annoying

Edited by crb1

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AttacKat   
12 hours ago, crb1 said:

I do 550 AP +  so I dont have to carry players like attacCAt. ALSO i'm a summoner and I have 601 AP ... if i go into a party with people at 450 AP I will have to tank everything which is annoying

On NA, I rather not be carried.

 

So good luck waiting for me to join your 550AP+ group for a 400AP dungeon, as well as the fact that I am still at least 50AP+ below your request. Remember doing Yeti on TW when I was a fresh L50 with 2 other L50 HM10+ players, it was boring since I didn't have to do anything. 

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13 hours ago, Shukran said:

STATISTICALLY  it is easier to see low ap groups failing yeti than 500+

You could argue it's statistically as easy to see 500+ fail because AP is all they seem to care about in some cases. Neither AP scenario takes experience, knowledge and skill into account anyway, so your point is moot.

Edited by Tsuchiryu

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Familiar   

This entire thread is pointless. If you don't have the AP a group wants, find a different group. I can almost 100% guarantee you they don't care whether you can clear the dungeon or not. Has nothing to do with whether you CAN clear the dungeon, but how fast they want to clear it.

 

Nothing to do with you. Stop acting like it's a personal attack and just find a different party instead of trying to convince people to play with people they don't want to.

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On 4/13/2016 at 9:14 PM, AttacKat said:

LOL, I remember that fight well ... Tank aggros, party dump serious DPS, healer make sure tank stays alive, when she does a given move, you ALL run behind the rocks, or you pretty much seeking party wipe by the 3rd time she does her AOE move, no amount of iLvl is going to save your a** there; and that is only the 1st phase.

Psh, that was the part that was mostly the same from Garuda HM. Tank and spank -> tele (hide) -> sisters (tank takes one, OT takes other, DPS kill OT first) -> phase 2. The fun part was the spiny, where if the tank screws up on the aggro, it blows up and kills everyone. That, or if someone kills it, Garuda wipes the party. I was a tank, of course, so I did the hard part of avoiding double slipstream (non-telegraphed cone AoE) and doing spiny/sister swap. Made it really easy to pass with pugs, since you just had to teach the OT to do two things: grab the sister (prep 1 and 2 on garuda, finisher for aggro seal when sister appears) and provoke/tomalob the spiny. Mark the spots on the ground where everyone is supposed to go, and it's all easy-peasy. It was a "hard" fight for many players because they don't think about how to make the job easier and instead just blame gear or incompetence.

 

I would actually say the largest obstacle to success in group content in any MMORPG is the unwillingness of people to communicate. Those who do not know are unwilling to confess their inexperience. To avoid having to confront that weakness, they seek simple indicators behind which they can hide.

Just now, Familiar said:

This entire thread is pointless. If you don't have the AP a group wants, find a different group. I can almost 100% guarantee you they don't care whether you can clear the dungeon or not. Has nothing to do with whether you CAN clear the dungeon, but how fast they want to clear it.

 

Nothing to do with you. Stop acting like it's a personal attack and just find a different party instead of trying to convince people to play with people they don't want to.

It has nothing to do with speed. When most of your time is spent traveling between opponents or waiting through mechanics (leaps, immune periods, etc), there's comparatively little gain to be had in terms of speed. Moreover, the addition time waiting for a group far outweighs any gains you could otherwise have. Most people are aware of this, which why people with gear and skill tend to run with fewer people to maximize their personal reward rate rather than seek higher-DPS companions.

 

Again, this goes to the communication problem above. The reason people look for high gear scores is to excuse their own lack of knowledge. If you know how much it actually takes to win, you don't so much care about your teammates' gear because you'll get done faster with existing randoms than by cherry-picking groups looking for super-high gear score.

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Familiar   
5 minutes ago, HUnewearl said:

Psh, that was the part that was mostly the same from Garuda HM. Tank and spank -> tele (hide) -> sisters (tank takes one, OT takes other, DPS kill OT first) -> phase 2. The fun part was the spiny, where if the tank screws up on the aggro, it blows up and kills everyone. That, or if someone kills it, Garuda wipes the party. I was a tank, of course, so I did the hard part of avoiding double slipstream (non-telegraphed cone AoE) and doing spiny/sister swap. Made it really easy to pass with pugs, since you just had to teach the OT to do two things: grab the sister (prep 1 and 2 on garuda, finisher for aggro seal when sister appears) and provoke/tomalob the spiny. Mark the spots on the ground where everyone is supposed to go, and it's all easy-peasy. It was a "hard" fight for many players because they don't think about how to make the job easier and instead just blame gear or incompetence.

 

I would actually say the largest obstacle to success in group content in any MMORPG is the unwillingness of people to communicate. Those who do not know are unwilling to confess their inexperience. To avoid having to confront that weakness, they seek simple indicators behind which they can hide.

It has nothing to do with speed. When most of your time is spent traveling between opponents or waiting through mechanics (leaps, immune periods, etc), there's comparatively little gain to be had in terms of speed. Moreover, the addition time waiting for a group far outweighs any gains you could otherwise have. Most people are aware of this, which why people with gear and skill tend to run with fewer people to maximize their personal reward rate rather than seek higher-DPS companions.

 

Again, this goes to the communication problem above. The reason people look for high gear scores is to excuse their own lack of knowledge. If you know how much it actually takes to win, you don't so much care about your teammates' gear because you'll get done faster with existing randoms than by cherry-picking groups looking for super-high gear score.

Alrighty, to be clear, this problem barely effects me in any way, shape or form. There's no party I'm having trouble getting into or anything and I rarely ever use F8. I prefer to duo/trio dungeons with my guild mates and friends. 

 

Now when I am looking for an F8 party, I go with people who have higher AP because they generally are more knowledgeable about the dungeon, and that saves much more time than is lost looking for higher AP party members. Such as situations where you go into yeti with a forcemaster who doesn't know when to ice, and can actually KILL their entire group. Historically, in my experience, people with more AP are better overall than those who have less. This probably has something to do with them usually spending more time actually PLAYING the game. That's just what I've experienced.

 

Sure, you'll run into the occasional extremely geared noob, but it's much less common than running into an extremely undergeared newb. Even in those situations I'd rather have the geared one who will put out more damage before he inevitably dies. Saying lower your AP standards doesn't open you up to more skilled players. Relatively speaking you're opening yourself up to more unskilled players than skilled ones. No matter their AP you CANNOT tell how experienced a player is in a dungeon before they join you EXCEPT if you see they have certain gear it means that they had to have done the dungeon needed to get that gear.

 

For my part, I don't care if it's your alt, or you have crazy experience. If I'm looking for a specific amount of AP in my party members, I'm not looking for your resume, or to have you whisper me saying how experienced you are. I want people who have the AP I want. That's it. Because to me, people with low AP generally aren't good players. They're generally, not very invested in the game. They generally, don't know what they're doing. Maybe you're an exception, but that's unfortunate, because I (that's just me) am not interested in giving trial runs to undergeared people. I'll take my chances with higher AP thanks.

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Zedonia   
6 hours ago, Familiar said:

Such as situations where you go into yeti with a forcemaster who doesn't know when to ice, and can actually KILL their entire group.

Because I have to read this shit over and over: At first: People fail sometimes. That happens, even if some People think they are perfect or whatever. A FM will NEVER cause you to die. If you die, it's your own fault. You can die because  the was not stunned yeti in heat phase. No one can flame others here because everyone could have stun be himself. In cold Phase you can die because of being frozen and the onehittet. Well, you can iframe the freze. You can also iframe the hits which freeze you. Haven't done that? Well, your own fault. Did you ignore the ice before? Yes? Well, you failed anyway. Did a fm used his frost shield in the beginning instead of the last hits? Well, happens, but why don't you just iframe after the first hits? It's your own fault after all. Don't flame others because they are not carrying you.

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Shukran   
8 hours ago, Tsuchiryu said:

You could argue it's statistically as easy to see 500+ fail because AP is all they seem to care about in some cases. Neither AP scenario takes experience, knowledge and skill into account anyway, so your point is moot.

assuming the tank role is played by GOD, it is easier to see low ap groups failing at heroic dungeons than 500+, because the time needed to dps him down is way lower for 500+.

 

i find stupid that:

 

- players call for more than 480+ in 6men dungeons

 

- players with even lower ap want to do those dungeons so much.

 

sooner or later those low ap who likes to be carried in high dungeons, will be forever behind and will complain till leave. because they wasted their time doing something that wasn't helping for them.

 

-eg: if u need pirate weapon, or machismos, or parfumes and u camp yeti4-6 because "it is op/more exp/nicer drops/more gold", u wont ever upgrade your weapon. hence u will fall behind stone age.

Edited by Shukran

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Vau   

nobody is crying about the fact the groups exist or that they are not a part of it. i kinda think this you need to have no life to join me in a dungeon attitude is cute at best, pathetic at worst. 

 

i have 417 AP (sue me i have a life) and i have held aggro in groups that had members with over 460 AP. it may be because i have a bad ass computer and dont lag, or perhaps im just that good. i just cant see that stat as a good judge of how much damage that person is gonna do. it more like a i half almost no life or expendable money badge. im not a tank class either my mains a Sin. 

 

with you guys requiring so much out of who you group with and the game lacking a way for new player to "catch up" within a reasonable amount of time without spending some sweet caysh on a not so favorable market, or quitting your job and moving back into mommys house so you can play all day and night for a month or 2 lmfao.

 

if to much of the established community enforces this nonsense your creating a wall that keeps new players out and kills the game over time, and you can only blame yourself.

 

that the point must people miss.

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Pew Pew   
3 minutes ago, Vau said:

nobody is crying about the fact the groups exist or that they are not a part of it. i kinda think this you need to have no life to join me in a dungeon attitude is cute at best, pathetic at worst. 

 

i have 417 AP (sue me i have a life) and i have held aggro in groups that had members with over 460 AP. it may be because i have a bad ass computer and dont lag, or perhaps im just that good. i just cant see that stat as a good judge of how much damage that person is gonna do. it more like a i half almost no life or expendable money badge. im not a tank class either my mains a Sin. 

 

with you guys requiring so much out of who you group with and the game lacking a way for new player to "catch up" within a reasonable amount of time without spending some sweet caysh on a not so favorable market, or quitting your job and moving back into mommys house so you can play all day and night for a month or 2 lmfao.

 

if to much of the established community enforces this nonsense your creating a wall that keeps new players out and kills the game over time, and you can only blame yourself.

 

that the point must people miss.

I think you missed the point....

 

You do know that there are several groups looking for people with a wide range of AP requirements so chances are you will find one for you or you can just make one oooor you can just hit the lfp button...

 

That's great that you know what to do in dungeons, but sadly idk how you will do in a dungeon so it's usually easier to just find a fellow high AP person that will do more damage while he/she is alive.

 

I have a life just as you do so why is it a horrible thing that I want to play with high AP people so I can rush through all the dailies so I can pvp for the rest of the time I'm on the game. (which most days isn't a lot of time between work, gym, friends, husband, ect)

 

Its is not creating a wall because you will always have that lfp button and you are just as able to create a party as anyone else is. Only difference is it will most likely take your group longer to complete a dungeon (or is this whole thing about you wanting to be carried quickly through them?)

 

 

 

PS: in most pug dungeons FM/SIN or the next highest damage person is USUALLY going to tank...... So seeing as SINS/FMS are the highest dps classes you better get used to it lol.   

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