Aeryn Blackrose

My opinion on the dungeon nerf sent straight to the staff. Everyone in the community should do the same because it affects us all and its wrong.

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nrca   
5 hours ago, HateMe said:

You people need to stop acting like kids.....it makes perfect sense that old content which is irrelevant gets adjusted in terms of loot.

The entire point of a mmo game is grind, you are supposed to progress through content and not just spam a yeti dungeon where you can basically 1 shot the boss.

 

There are plenty other places that reward materials, even more than what they nerfed, if you yourself choose not to run those because its too hard for you or because you simply do not want to that is entirely on you. they left the old dungeons with the loot in for so long, if someone did not upgrade in that time that means he didnt care about upgrading his gear as much as about just being greedy and making cheap profit of it.

 

If you dont like the grind or dont have that much time to play the game, then have you maybe thought the game is not for you then? If you cannot invest the time to achieve what you want then its not a problem with the game but with you.

If i can manage to upgrade my gear fully by playing 2-4h a day then so can you.

 

Soo. if i don't like changes like this that are absolutly stupid i should shut up. find another game and ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ myslef?

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1 hour ago, Princess Kupo said:

I actually have to agree with the OP on this one, and i have an fm at aransu 6 tiger 5 soul awake neck 3 and a  gunner with vt gear, with various alts at bt/vt. Mats for mid to high tier is harder to get now, more than ever and that is on of the main reasons. soulstone/sarcred crystals:moonstone crystal ratio is around 7:1. while i disagree that low tier players have a hard time to gear in a reasonable time, its mid tier that gets rek'd by this change. One thing i seem to see a lot is ppl just see dc gold, while i agree its a pain for mid tier and low tier to get gold is harder now, low tier do not need it, its mid and high. People seem to forget that most BT pugs are 1k and you can net around 100g with share on that a week, per character and you have the weekly challenge,  that's around 50g.
The whole AP in F8 is for 2 reasons:
1st is those that have spent time and or money onto the game want similar ppl to burn the content, because they have done it 100's of times and did it when it was hard and its a time waste.
2nd AP is a rough gear level for e.g. 1k ap is bale with msp maybe partial bt,  1.1k is full bt with maybe partial vt 1.15k-1.2k is full vt thats your ap tier list.
There are those like myself who just recruit with no ap requirements because everything up to HH is soloable(bar mechs) and helping new players is rewarding.
But back to the original point, every dungeon has a % change on dropping chests and even then it is one, how are mid tier players ment to gear up at this rate in a reasonable amount of time without sinking money into the game or killing them selves and their love for the game doing it.

*thats my 2 cents*

This post hits the bullseye .

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Arohk   
6 hours ago, HateMe said:

You people need to stop acting like kids.....it makes perfect sense that old content which is irrelevant gets adjusted in terms of loot.

You Don't create A character and instantly have raven weapon and BT acc.

Except you all forget 1 place where you can get a ton of resources in a reasonable amount of time and that is Celestial Basin. I mean 500 peaches for 1 pouch that gives 3 of the 4 basic crystals, thats pretty good in my opinion. Getting 500 peaches doesnt even take 15 mins so yeah, you can farm alot in there. Last time i checked all item upgrades only use moonstone crystals and that was 1 day ago that i checked it.

farming peaches is highly inefficient with baleful gear, once you can 1-2 shot every mob there without cooldowns, maybe... but the whole area is a shithole of stuttering and FPS drops that for many it is unplayable.

 

I'd rather run SSM, in 10 minutes, get a guaranteed sacred or Elysian orb + chest (field quest) , and had the chance for dragon treasure chest.

 

Edited by Arohk

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Ginkuro   

I have my main char (BD) geard with top mid tear gear, Raven 9(No luck with Husk and Im not gonna pay 10kg in marcket), Awakened Cosmic st3, Furious Pet, maxed BT and VT accesories, and even with the gear I have, I can see how awfull the last patches to the game have been, and yes Im talking not about only the last one but the last 3 or 4, with each of them being worst than before, some ppl say its all ok cuz all you need to do is grind, but even if you can grind on the top tear dungs rigth now its completely inefitient, usualy I could do 500g a week only loging 2hours a day and doing dungs and grinding some top tier dung (if 2 to 4 runs is grinding), in top tear dung you had the posibility to get the Dragon Box, that was from 180 to 200g bid almost all the time and that was mostly my income of gold, right now the dragon box have been removed or the drop rate was lowered so much that is nearly imposible to see it drop (Have not seen any all the week), now that is for a geared player, for a low mid player this has become even worst, I geared my Gunner to raven 6, awakened soul, vt neck and BT accs 1.1k AP with gems borowed form my main, and I had a hard time to be accepted in a lot of partys just cuz my gunner was HM10, a lot of ppl judge for level on f8 and dont even see the profile, so for a lot of new players its very hard to get into partys, also most ppl in f8 ask for 1k AP but wont accept any Bale or Seraph in the party even if they have 1k AP, most want Raven Awakened Soul BT gear for 1K AP , and with all these nerfs in incomes on all the content they are capable to grind efectively their progress get affected a lot.

 

For those defending NCsoft desitions, dont get blinded by the love you may have to the game, I myself waited 3 years from the release on korea to the release on NA, and I realy like the game since its 1 of the best in visuals and play style I have ever played, but all that is geting ruined with the desitions they have been taking, the ppl in charge and the public faces of the game have shown that they dont know the game at all or its players, they are deaf to the players feedback and that for many is very disapointing, and their desitions have not been good ones. If you are ok with the idea of being behind the screen like a slave to the game 8 hours a day as if it was a job and have the time to do it, great for you, for a lot other players that have a real life job and cant spend that much time in the game all these changes screwed everything and they are not 2 or 3 players only.

 

The reason I havent quit these game is cuz my friends are still playing, at least with that we help each other to advance, but with the latest patches they also are loosing the desire to play the game.

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JIFSTER   

One of the major issues in the discussions that I am seeing is an obvious difference between veteran players and mid-newer players (try getting a weapon from Aransu 3-6 or 6-9 its ok ill wait for you to sell your car/kidney so you can) .  If you've been playing this game since the beginning then the changes have been dramatic because you've seen the grind fluctuate from (the amount of time you put in is rewarded) to (time and reward has no correlation) to (now you are only rewarded if you pay up) and you've seen this happen over and over each year. Flip flopping back and forth. But it's got so bad now, Each time the game changed for the worse the low point got lower and lower (more and more dependent on using your credit card to experience just the game itself forget about endgame content) vs being able to grind long periods of time every day to slowly experience more content.

 

The problem with this, is that F5 takes a beating every time the economy changes after each patch. When players quit the game, you are left with the people who are so Vested into the game because of the time/credit card purchases they have mad that to quit now would be embarrassing and humiliating. So they have to keep buying mats for upgrades, not enough players pumping mats into the game, it becomes an all out bidding war on who is willing to pay the most for those mats. (Sacred orb use to cost 30 silver PTS 200gold even less) And if you are paying lots of money out of pocket you are going to have a huge dislike for lower geared people who do not want to pay money who are trying to enter your games (I dont agree but i understand) No one in this world wants to feel robbed of hundreds maybe thousands of dollars and hours of their life if the final outcome is anger and resentment, all previous good times get wiped away. Love is stronger then hate, but true hate is easier to find then true love. You either let go of that hate by voicing your opinion trying to be the change you want to see so you can move on or you bottle it up and become an angrier person.

 

Now we are at a point where every player new or old is starting to grasp exactly how long it would take you to move forward, which is a ridiculous amount of time I don't care how grindy this game was meant to be, nothing should take an unrealistic 20 years of your life only to have everyone quit year 4

Edited by JIFSTER

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jones6   

Yeah my sub was canceled after seeing this patch. I like to just play casually and this took away all forms of progression from my play style.

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1 hour ago, jones6 said:

Yeah my sub was canceled after seeing this patch. I like to just play casually and this took away all forms of progression from my play style.

Good luck in your progession, trying to play in this way...

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Corvenir   

I agree with you

side note:

 

Anyone that says 1k AP for Sanctum is unnecessary ignores how the enrage timer sits at 5 minutes. 

I ran the dungeon 3 times yesterday (My AP1010 no raven) and failed each time at the end, people ranging from 800-1000(reroll your weapon for slots and solak accessories just don't cut it here) just can't pull off the damage needed to beat the enrage timer.

The closest we got was like 5%HP left bam enrage.

 

845 "noobs and rage quits..." and then everyone else just leaves.(recruit more? HAHA you know that doesn't work because of the quest)

 

I was shocked and gave up after that, I just exited the game went back to grinding another annoying game that at least pretends to listen to feedback (Destiny 2)

 

"Oh well I got Raven and can do a billion per second and can beat xanos in 1 minute git gud" (Honestly I've heard several variations of this)

Coming from the people that used to run the DC on 6 different characters...

 

Yeah "git gud" with no way to maintain a solid income of gold and materials.

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Ren36   

It´s a really good patch tbh, but it just came too late. If it had been like this from the start many things would have been better.
Since the game itself removed money sinks after money sink gold as a currency lost it´s value, pushing mat prices into oblivion, until there was such a huge gap between newcomer/mid-tier and high-geared that the only way to catch up, was to invest insurmountable amounts of time for the average working person or to pay your way up (HM-lvl, mats, inventory space, ...).
The problem now isn´t the money income, but the enviroment after shifting the meta.

To counter it, NCSoft would have to "temporary" devalute mats(remove rng psts craft, new ways to obtain ms/evo stones), until the economy calms down to the point where newcomers can hope participate in this game again, regardless of the solutions NCSoft comes up with.

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JIFSTER   
20 minutes ago, Ren36 said:

To counter it, NCSoft would have to "temporary" devalute mats(remove rng psts craft, new ways to obtain ms/evo stones), until the economy calms down to the point where newcomers can hope participate in this game again, regardless of the solutions NCSoft comes up with.

That is not how economics works. You can't devalue something by making it harder to come by, that does the complete opposite. The only way to temporarily devalue something is to remove its significance. Weapons and Accessories now require less moonstone crystals, sacred crystals, elysian crystals but we never had an issue farming those items. The issue was with Moonstones, Elysian Orbs, Premium Stones, Sacred Orbs, Transformation stones, Pet Packs, Sacred Vials, the list goes on. So by removing the ability to acquire those items they have caused more problems then good. 

Edited by JIFSTER
spelling

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My Alt now suffering without support. Need 4-5K gold to get the Raven 6 and Stage 10 acc ring elem+oath necklace.

Not to mention earring, belt, pet, and soul cost. Also PVP items cost.

 

Edited by Jack Valent

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jones6   
2 hours ago, ThousandMiles said:

Good luck in your progession, trying to play in this way...

I have played this way since launch. It was great even progressing at a snail's pace was fine and I really enjoyed it. I made thousands of gold and collected hundreds of cosmetics. I figured it would hit this point so I am not surprised.

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JIFSTER   
2 minutes ago, jones6 said:

I have played this way since launch. It was great even progressing at a snail's pace was fine and I really enjoyed it. I made thousands of gold and collected hundreds of cosmetics. I figured it would hit this point so I am not surprised.

I agree. New players are entering a dying game that is just a shell of what it use to be. We had our fun tho! Come on 2018 bring us a new mmorpg. 

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Ren36   
1 hour ago, JIFSTER said:

That is not how economics works. You can't devalue something by making it harder to come by, that does the complete opposite. The only way to temporarily devalue something is to remove its significance. Weapons and Accessories now require less moonstone crystals, sacred crystals, elysian crystals but we never had an issue farming those items. The issue was with Moonstones, Elysian Orbs, Premium Stones, Sacred Orbs, Transformation stones, Pet Packs, Sacred Vials, the list goes on. So by removing the ability to acquire those items they have caused more problems then good. 

I am pretty sure the changes I suggested:
"remove rng psts craft, new ways to obtain ms/evo stones"
- Don´t make them harder to come by?!

As for the temporary, like I hinted at, unless real gold sinks are implemented into this game(higher upgrade fee for near end gear items, higher mailing costs for sellable items, transaction fee for exchange, etc), inflation will just push material prices again. Most here just complain, but don´t give any ideas.

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JIFSTER   
7 minutes ago, Ren36 said:

Most here just complain, but don´t give any ideas.

If you want your idea to be heard you have to create a support ticket, if you create a support ticket with an idea you either get 1 of 2 responses. You either receive a response that seems personalized if your idea is a complete "Not going to happen" or you receive a response that says this. I've got so many of these pre-scripted, automatic responses that you realize they don't care. 
 

Same response for the past 2 years. 

 

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Ren36   
1 hour ago, JIFSTER said:

If you want your idea to be heard you have to create a support ticket, if you create a support ticket with an idea you either get 1 of 2 responses. You either receive a response that seems personalized if your idea is a complete "Not going to happen" or you receive a response that says this. I've got so many of these pre-scripted, automatic responses that you realize they don't care.

Support ticket is just one of many ways and it´s not like NCSoft never listened to NA/EU.
Many of the recent changes originated from NA/EU, before any region had them(raid account-bound items: raven feather, raven soul, bt wep material), for which other regions are still waiting. Item revamps, cost reduction, the same and many other QoL.
 

Regarding the topic there definately needs to be a change, but like i said, most just complain. Suggesting ideas, that are obvious to "Not going to happen"(free raven, telling them to do "something", but expecting to get a result immeadiately won´t work).
NCWest is just a publisher, before anything they have to ask NCSoft and wait for them to make the changes, they aren´t the Devs.

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Neog   

This change was really pointless and unnecessary and my guess is that it was made to cover some mistakes they made.

Old dungeons should die by their own, just like Naryu Labyrinth, BSH, BSC and many others. If they want to encourage players to run harder dungeons make them more attractive and that will happen naturally.

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Corvenir   
On 5/16/2018 at 9:48 AM, Arohk said:

You Don't create A character and instantly have raven weapon and BT acc.

farming peaches is highly inefficient with baleful gear, once you can 1-2 shot every mob there without cooldowns, maybe... but the whole area is a shithole of stuttering and FPS drops that for many it is unplayable.

 

I'd rather run SSM, in 10 minutes, get a guaranteed sacred or Elysian orb + chest (field quest) , and had the chance for dragon treasure chest.

 

Bro! I was surfing around reddit, you press J and uncheck all your quests (this turns off quest tracking) it's a drastic improvement on stuttering, it used to drop from 60 to 20 just by rotating the camera and now it no longer does that for me. The stutter now is 2-5fps not 20+fps

I was on my way out because of this, it was soo annoying finding this fix renewed my interest in the game only to get hit with this recent patch.

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Arohk   
11 hours ago, Corvenir said:

Bro! I was surfing around reddit, you press J and uncheck all your quests (this turns off quest tracking) it's a drastic improvement on stuttering, it used to drop from 60 to 20 just by rotating the camera and now it no longer does that for me. The stutter now is 2-5fps not 20+fps

I was on my way out because of this, it was soo annoying finding this fix renewed my interest in the game only to get hit with this recent patch.

indeed, but not everyone has a good gaming PC, it might help less on weaker machines, i don't know, but even if you play stuttering free you are limited by a respawn times of the mobs at how fast you can finish the quests, or if you only have baleful and take for ever to kill the big elephant dudes..., The Kroax have a alot of stun abilities who are really annoying if you don't kill them instantly.

 

I have noticed reduction in upgrading cost for many weapons in the amount of materials you need, but the first PvP upgrade still cost 300 sacred crystals for breakthrough.

I have to re evaluate the situation, to be honest i think the 5k gold treasure chests were idiotic from the beginning and i hope they stay out of the game now.

Too many players already got the 1k and 5k out of it so it is kinda late to remove them but ok.

Edited by Arohk

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mzerohdl   

Yeah I don't know if we have to keep on flooding forums with these posts or not. The gold reduction in early dungeons and dc is a issue for mid-low gear players. Daily gold income was dramatically reduced for the exact same content and affects perception of growth.

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Cyan   

Hello everyone,


Over the last couple of weeks there has been significant discussion regarding the changes to Daily/Weekly Challenge, dungeon drops, and gold farming with varying opinions. There’s been a lot of posts, and threads, on these matters which we are compiling for further discussion with the development team. These matters are obviously something many of you feel very passionate about, and we will do what we can ensure everyone playing the game are having the best experience and do not feel unable to participate. We ask that you continue to share your thoughts on these changes (and any others you may have!).

 

Thank you!

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Neoyoshi   

If the issue is finding a balance on how to keep the new user-experience fresh and at the same time enjoyable; the end result being: getting all the new players caught up- (whether they be actual new players or just new Alts)- to current content as quickly and painlessly as possible to without bringing imbalance to Materials and Gold as that journey is being taken-

 

-my suggestion to the Devs for that would be to create a catch-up mechanic that doesn't pull from the game-worlds main source of materials. (E.g.: Gold/upgrade materials)

 

The catch-up mechanic would have a completely independent resource pool of items that could only be used to bring new characters "up-to-speed" so to speak; and wouldn't be trade-able in any form and wouldn't- again- require the main games resources. 

 

This in itself would allow old content to be adjusted as the developers see fit, without hamstringing the character progression experience within those leveling content brackets.

 

This is just one of many different options to adjust mechanics to catch people up without the worry of impacting Trade resources.  Though my suggestion would require quite a bit of R&D on NCsoft's end to function properly.

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Ren36   

While I get it that many consider boss loots meaningless now, they have to realize that the overall material drops actually tripled.
Before we had a chance of 1-4 material boxes dropping, with the loot ending up with the highest bidding person, wherever he aquired his gold from.
This in general caused richer people to hoard materials, which in return increased the demand for materials, since lower geared couldn´t afford to outbid them.
Though gold as currency is important, it pales in comparison to mats, since the actual gain from bidding on such chests was at best 60silver(3g), not even enough to pay for 2 soulstones at current market prices. The boxes on the other hand had a chance to proc ms/elysian, which are needed in vast amounts near end game(10g ms / 15g ely).

The system now on the other hand provides a guarenteed drop of 12 boxes(6people), including a 100% chance for sacred orb, soul and sacred crystals + many more
bound and unbound rng based mats, resulting in a significant price drop of sacred orbs(3,4g -> 1,2g), due to the influx and absence to compete with others for these boxes within a short period of time.
In the long run this change will cause many materials, which weren´t available to everyone, to drop in price.

Making this patch actually one of the best that has been applied to this date for pve, it´s just...too late.
Though the groundwork is layed out, if we compared bns to a relay, newcomers couldn´t see their competitors, even if they used binoculars.
"Since the game itself removed money sinks after money sink gold as a currency lost it´s value, pushing mat prices into oblivion, until there was such a huge gap between newcomer/mid-tier and high-geared that the only way to catch up, was to invest insurmountable amounts of time for the average working person or to pay your way up (HM-lvl, mats, inventory space, ...).
The problem now isn´t the money income, but the enviroment after shifting the meta."

I can´t say if it´s due to poor coding(qest tracking fix), nor if the servers or if the routing of europe in general is just that bad, but many people face horrible fps & ping, preventing them to participate in any kind of pvp, especially 6v6.
But if alternatives were added to aquire moonstones or to craft guarenteed(more mats) / rng based(less mats) bound to account PSTS with bound materials, so long they aren´t forced to see their hard earned mats being wasted and they could actively decide for themselves, people would genuinely decide, if they intend to spend time or money to aquire them, having only themselves to blame if it failed.

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Walex   

I'm only mad because there's no content for endgame players.

But I do understand the problem - the point is, they cut as many sources of gold and materials as they can - and if you mean me, I don't really care, but if you mean new players or casuals then this is a big thing.

All I really want in this game is content, and we keep getting like 1 dungeon per update... We aren't even getting achievements, daily quests, field bosses etc. anymore at this point...

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Yndril   

Think you got something a bit wrong on the sacred orbs @Ren36 , it's not that we get much more of them, it's that we got gated on the use of it (24 hour CD on experience charms), since the whales don't need the same amount of them anymore, the demand lowered by a huge margin while the supply virtually stayed the same (if anything went up a bit), when supply is much greater than the demand, the price goes down because then the sellers compete to get their things sold. Soulstone got the supply increased and the demand a bit lowered.

 

Moonstone however, got their tradable mats supply gated even further than before, and their "shift in materials" to fight the lowered supply was not even remotely close to sufficient, which means that the demand got lowered a bit, but the supply was halved, or more.

 

But all of this have one thing i common, the gold supply was lowered yet again, something they really had no reason to do, the gold supply have always been low and the demand high, the overall demand is maybe a bit lower, but the supply was pretty much butchered for newcomers and alts. Granted, it is the community that have set the arbitrary AP requirements, not the devs. and decreasing the amount of time to grind up the AP would just raise the bar further (people are like that...), while increasing the time it takes won't lower the bar.

 

My personal opinion about the changes is that the unbound mats are in a better state now (moonstone crystal included), but they dropped the ball on the moonstones especially.

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