Pay 2 Win Confirmed

[Tupac Shakur]

So now that it's been confirmed, since players have spent over 3,500 euro's on NCoins for 7000 keys to get 652 AP, 5k+ crit and crap tons of skill books, gems and gold etc - it's safe to say that all you skeptics were proven wrong after all.

 

All those who doubted and denied that this game is pay to win, checkmate.

 

[Enhance]

And I still kill them in arena with my level 35 blade dancer, so nice "win" there.

[Jev]

What did they win though?

 

Your gear in this game is virtually useless if you don't intend on PvPing with it in open world. I don't understand some people. All you hear about nowadays is how repetitive the game is; grind dungeon after dungeon to update ridiculously expensive requiring gear - only to eventually afford your upgrade and then repeat. Why does it matter that someone upgraded faster than you?  

 

If someone is 650 AP... how is that affecting you if you're not directly competing against them? There's no reward for maxing out. They do not get an achievement or a seasonal prize or anything. They have their gear maxed and you don't.

 

The only thing this affects is 6v6 arena and I personally cannot wait to compete against higher geared players. As a sin, I only pick fights where I'm up against more than one person for the personal challenge. 

[OddFinrir]

Just now, Jev said:

If someone is 650 AP... how is that affecting you if you're not directly competing against them? There's no reward for maxing out. They do not get an achievement or a seasonal prize or anything. They have their gear maxed and you don't. 

There's a market to compete in, which can get you mats to upgrade later if you get enough gold. This event can get you gold super quick and way more than normal when you charge for coins. Soon, 6v6 will be a thing, meaning they'll have an advantage in PvP there, on top of having enough money to instantly upgrade gear and make the most amount of money before prices settle because they will have an easier time. If you don't get it, I'll make a graph I guess.

[Tupac Shakur]

3 minutes ago, OddFinrir said:

There's a market to compete in, which can get you mats to upgrade later if you get enough gold. This event can get you gold super quick and way more than normal when you charge for coins. Soon, 6v6 will be a thing, meaning they'll have an advantage in PvP there, on top of having enough money to instantly upgrade gear and make the most amount of money before prices settle because they will have an easier time. If you don't get it, I'll make a graph I guess.

Exactly.. these NCSoft defenders just DON'T GET IT.

[Enhance]

2 minutes ago, OddFinrir said:

There's a market to compete in, which can get you mats to upgrade later if you get enough gold. This event can get you gold super quick and way more than normal when you charge for coins. Soon, 6v6 will be a thing, meaning they'll have an advantage in PvP there, on top of having enough money to instantly upgrade gear and make the most amount of money before prices settle because they will have an easier time. If you don't get it, I'll make a graph I guess.

So what you're saying is that in the end, paying players will upgrade their gear quicker than non-paying players, after paying for better gear in this patch.

Well... cool.

Just now, Tupac Shakur said:

Exactly.. these NCSoft defenders just DON'T GET IT.

People saying they don't feel oppressed by paying players aren't automatically NCSoft defenders.

[Syanonn]

People complaining about the whales again?

They are the ones keeping the game afloat despite all the botting and hacking going on.

[OddFinrir]

4 minutes ago, Enhance said:

So what you're saying is that in the end, paying players will upgrade their gear quicker than non-paying players, after paying for better gear in this patch.

Well... cool.

Basically, yes. A new character could be maxed within a week or two if a person spent enough money now (and played well). They can also stock up on exp charms and level quickly now or later when Hongmoon levels are increased, which gives an advantage even in equalized arena. The point I was trying to make is that a person who would do this would have a much larger return in the game because not as many people would have as much gold, materials, levels, etc when the cap gets increased again. It's how life works outside the virtual world too. I just don't like it when people don't admit things. :x

[raik7]

Now they say "well, game becomes p2w yes.. But they are not winning, so it's ok".

[CycLee]

I cant wait for the first real raid dungeons when raidgroups form. Have fun to get into a progress oriented group if you haven't cashed your gear to max.

 

hint:

Spoiler

You have to stick with mediocre groups for a very long time and will never on top of reionprogress races unless you pay tons for your gear. You don't believe me? it's the same in the 4 asian regions aswell - why'd you think Jaesung ranted about it on his stream several weeks ago

 

[Yamyatos]

2 hours ago, Tupac Shakur said:

So now that it's been confirmed, since players have spent over 3,500 euro's on NCoins for 7000 keys to get 652 AP, 5k+ crit and crap tons of skill books, gems and gold etc -

Probably troll post... but explain to me how they won? If somebody decides to pay for a years worth of server costs to get themselves a char maxed out.. then let them do it.

The only thing they can win over you is in open world pvp. And honestly.. who the *cricket* does open world pvp for the "pvp" aspect. It's a ton of gear dependant zerging. It always was. With next patch we get 6v6 arena which is not gear equalized. I honestly couldnt care less. Whoever plays pvp for the sake of actually pvp'ing would not even enter some mode where gear is not equalized. 

 

You have to work for your gear either way. You can work for it ingame, or work on your real job and later pay real money. If you intend to spend a month worth of real life cash on this game, then so be it. I personally find the rates hilariously high. Who the hell would pay thousands of €€€ on a game just to gear up ONE char if you can get the same by normally playing it. If you decide to grind for a month you will have the same gear. But if you dont plan to work for your gear either way, then dont complain about people having better gear compared to you. I see your point tho. Still, the rates are so insane.. that the people who do it basically sponsor the game. Remember the 20-80 rule that applies to basically anything. About 20% of the players will generate 80% of the income. Of those 20%, people who actually spend enough money to max out a char will be a total exception. It's not like you meet people like that every minute ingame. Not that you could tell them apart from people who just nolife the game and grind a lot anyway lol. The only thing that would maybe make me think that a person cashed, is if they got all the AP gems equipped. All of them.

[VRock]

yeah sure, spend 10k and still kiss the ground in 1vs1 arena.

[Xellon]

Its just that everyones definition of pay 2 win is different hence why these topics are talked about often.

 

My definition has been the same for years. If I can take a low lvl character in arena and beat down someone capped, then its not pay 2 win. That simple.

 

Open world pvp is different as gear matters. In this case, pay 2 win is a factor which is also the reason why you will hardly see me doing open pvp other then just doing quests.

 

regular pve? I don't really care. As long as I can party with randoms, get what I want, then I'm good.

 

From what I'm reading on this topic, this game is pay 2 win because paying players can get gold + gear faster. So I guess you guys mean to say pay 2 get gear/gold faster then everyone (p2ggfte).........

[xtclikeafox]

3 hours ago, Tupac Shakur said:

So now that it's been confirmed, since players have spent over 3,500 euro's on NCoins for 7000 keys to get 652 AP, 5k+ crit and crap tons of skill books, gems and gold etc - it's safe to say that all you skeptics were proven wrong after all.

 

All those who doubted and denied that this game is pay to win, checkmate.

 

LOL another thread full of whining. As a completely free user you can get over 500AP very easily.

There is currently zero content requiring more AP then that.

So pay-for-stats users get to complete their dailies faster then we do....big deal.

Don't forget those high stats are useless inside the pvp arena.

And once they get max stats....nothing really do to except let free users catch up to them in a month. So jokes on them anyways.

[Mayor Tee]

3 hours ago, Enhance said:

And I still kill them in arena with my level 35 blade dancer, so nice "win" there.

Wow you beat people with the biggest easiest, simpilest, noob class in an MMO ever...congrats. Because you know everyone doesn't know BD requires not an ounce of skill huh...lol.

 

Don't you wish they didn't, and you could play that class and not be smirked at because you picked it in the 1st place?

[Sherlock MacDumpster]

The fact you can spend IRL money to possibly have an advantage over other people who didn't (aka dropping the HM SKILLS/buying them with the gold you made with the event) is the DEFINITION of pay2win. 
 

"pay2win" isn't about something you CANNOT have without cashing anymore.. the game clearly became pay2win at this point... 

 

P.S. the upcoming geared based 6v6 is even more of a joke...

 

EDIT: Forgot to talk about buyable Hongmoon levels with the charms of the event.... Well there it's literally the old "pay2win" when you can't even reach a certain lvl of hongmoon with the ordinary path.

[Riyria]

8 minutes ago, Sherlock MacDumpster said:

The fact you can spend IRL money to possibly have an advantage over other people who didn't (aka dropping the HM SKILLS/buying them with the gold you made with the event) is the DEFINITION of pay2win. 
 

"pay2win" isn't about something you CANNOT have without cashing anymore.. the game clearly became pay2win at this point... 

 

P.S. the upcoming geared based 6v6 is even more of a joke...

There will never be an MMO that is -not- p2w according to your definition.

Except maybe some which you cannot even play at all without paying.

[Dray0s]

7 hours ago, Tupac Shakur said:

So now that it's been confirmed, since players have spent over 3,500 euro's on NCoins for 7000 keys to get 652 AP, 5k+ crit and crap tons of skill books, gems and gold etc - it's safe to say that all you skeptics were proven wrong after all.

 

All those who doubted and denied that this game is pay to win, checkmate.

 

if u read the people who argue against the p2w feature, this is because the only feature paying into the game offered was Less Time for More stuff, which was always reachable by the average f2p, the problem is, the game currently is Accelerating through content to catch up with KR, players have Less time between content releases to reach the goals therefore Looks "unreachable" however very much isn

 

whats your argument to call it P2W? as the current content even the new expansion is Full Doable at 460, the yeti 4 man?.. Was proven to be doable with nothing but 460 AP players, to clarify, I'm 430 AP at level 49 with True Siren weapon and Awakened Siren Accessories, My Soulshield is still 45, yet able to do all my dailies solo still.im 30 AP off from being within capability of doing yeti with a group of players of the same gear level and I havnt even reached 50 or done anything towards HM Skills, so why does it matter? if some dudes walking 600+ due to abit of paying out on a Event, and doing the same content as a 460 player whos just been doing it all properly... Theres no difference, ur both in the same group ur not fighting him.. he isn't "winning" anything doing it.

 

so whats ur argument going to be.

 

"but players require 600+ for the content!!!!!!! ITS P2W CAUSE I CANT JOIN WITH 460 AP" Well that's the communities fault, not the developers, they didn't Ask players to demand 600+ thjey didn't lock the dungeon to requiring 600+ the community, have decided its EASIER therefore a REQUIREMENT, Developers cant stop players doing what they please, or punish them for Demanding elitism.

 

"yeah but I've worked for months to achieve what some dude did with his credit card in 30 minutes"... that's Paying for Convience, and considering RNG Factors and Prices, i'd realistically say if ur not paying.. be thankful they are, they're paying for you to get this game for free, they DESERVE That convience for spending HUNDREDS into a game to catch up/Overtake you.

 

Nothing in PvE Requires over 460 AP. its been Proven doable.. and 460, is a VERY EASY figure to reach.. Nothing uptoo pirate is realistically THAT time consuming providing you put the effort in to achieve it. pirate + a few gems would easily achieve 460 AP Arena Flat lines u, and All HM Skills are achievable, NCSoft have released they are releasing MORE Ways to earn HM Skills via the game in PvP System. Open world doesn't really mean much outside of SSP and by what I can gather that's Just a Simple Mob of players v Mob of players, Nothing but Numbers of players decide that.

[Tsunakai]

Dungeons: Paying to win what exactly here? No one pays to win against CPU controlled opponents.

OWPVP: It's zerg vs zerg(or usually zerg vs crimson) and gear doesnt matter in those situations. Ever seen 15 Mutalisks fight 1 3/3 battlecruiser in SC2? Zerg wins every time. Doesn't matter how many minerals I spend on my BC, it still gets rekt.

Arena: Stat equalised, HM skills can be afforded from selling SS on market or clan mats to clans, only factors which influence are HM lvls and exp gained from non stop arena is signficant.

 

Other than the kind of douchery by which spenders brag about their gear, it doesn't allow them to take away any power from non spending players.

[Archess]

10 hours ago, Tupac Shakur said:

So now that it's been confirmed, since players have spent over 3,500 euro's on NCoins for 7000 keys to get 652 AP, 5k+ crit and crap tons of skill books, gems and gold etc - it's safe to say that all you skeptics were proven wrong after all.

 

All those who doubted and denied that this game is pay to win, checkmate.

 

So you are saying that if we do not spend 3.500$ we can "never" reach 652 AP then? Witch is false ofcourse because we can just by playing the game, i mean there are tons of KR movies showing people well above 652 AP, its just gonna take longer ofcourse, but what are you playing this game for, Instant Gratification Online or maybe fun, how does someone elses AP affect you, sure you might lose in 6 vs 6 as they have better gear, but does it really stroke your ego that bad, so bad you can't take it?

 

Guess you are one of those guys that uses Escape when he starts loosing in Open World pvp, witch again ...is meaningless, get over yourself man.

[VirtueXOA]

For me pay to win is when you can buy something that other ppl cannot have by playing (and also stronger that regular items) .

At first i was saying this even was not pay ton win but ... i saw the redgem , nearly permacrit :/ . And it seems you cant have it by any other way ...

[bandsnewbie]

10 hours ago, Tupac Shakur said:

So now that it's been confirmed, since players have spent over 3,500 euro's on NCoins for 7000 keys to get 652 AP, 5k+ crit and crap tons of skill books, gems and gold etc - it's safe to say that all you skeptics were proven wrong after all.

 

All those who doubted and denied that this game is pay to win, checkmate.

 

 

Here is what i want to know though, all that stuff that this person bought? can it be gotten in game through grinding, questing, dungeons, raids and using in game currency (not Ncoins)? i dont give a shit how hard it is to get, how hard or easy anyone thinks it is to get, if the stuff has a 0.0000001% stupid low drop rate or if it drops from some activity that someone never intends to do. I just want to know if it can be found in game without spending real money.

 

If yes then i call it Pay For Convenience

 

If no then i call it Pay to Win

 

And i dont wanna hear any shit about me trying to make the term "Pay For Convenience" a thing either.  I've had people in other games try to tell me that extra inventory space was P2W.  So if people like that are allowed to say that bag space is P2W then i'm gonna go around and call stuff PFC.

[InstantDeath]

Yesterday one of my guild mates bought 100x keys & slot expension scrolls with ncoin and at the end of the day he was able to upgrade his weapon to True Breeze, his accessories to Awakened Oathbreaker. Me, on the other hand, wasted 4 hours to collect 16 Frozen Darts + 30g.

Like people said before, this is not a really big problem. But with constant fps drops in SSPlains, melee disadvantage, lag and bots in arena/moonwater plains/ss plains, i really feel like giving up.

[GeminiPT]

I really dont understand why Arena is so important for this topic, everyone know arena your gear is equal.

 

and this game is for sure Pay 2 Win of course.

[Richard Rahl]

11 hours ago, Tupac Shakur said:

So now that it's been confirmed, since players have spent over 3,500 euro's on NCoins for 7000 keys to get 652 AP, 5k+ crit and crap tons of skill books, gems and gold etc - it's safe to say that all you skeptics were proven wrong after all.

 

All those who doubted and denied that this game is pay to win, checkmate.

 

[moderated content]

 

while it might be pay for perks. im pretty sure I can still curb stomp yeti with a true profane and NO GEMS. maybe awakened siren at best. why the hell do you NEED 4 or 5 extra attack from a ruby or sapphire or w/e. also so far as I know these gems will be transmutable in future patches. no I don't have a time frame just something I was reading in another post and didn't care to research deeply as I dun care about a few attack points when its possible to get 600+ with true end gear and u can easily run any dungeon out there with 400....

 

if u need all this junk to win.... there is no hope for you, quit now and save yourself further embarrassment.