this ap requirements are making me nuts...

[kpetros]

What AP is exactly ? The AP you get by upgrading the weapon is TOO MUCH (21AP per upgrade) but contributes only in attack power . Jewels increase AP by 3 per level but contribute in many different area , defence,etc . 

Most people focus upgrading their weapons , ending up with 600+ players with crap defences  - aka shit .

-And then you wonder during the dungeon , "why did that "guy" got 1HKO ? that doesnt make sense -

 

Another example is the AP gems 

ow god that a totally messed up story of noobs having their AP increased cause of gems that they .....hmmm..... paid to get .  

 

AP is a very orbitrary way of "measuring" OVERALL stats , imo its not good way but at least it is a FAST way . 

So yea , if 700+AP ensures ME that these "categories" of players will stay outside of an important dungeon , of course i will take it and embrace it . 

 

[Zedonia]

NC implemented a small gear check already: You need a minimum level of your weapon to do some dungeons. Sadly, this requirement is useless. My <400 ap lv. 49 sin can join tomb because the game says my weapon is enough. Thats a joke. Why not putting more effort in that? Higher weapon, accs, maybe crit and accuracy.

 

But even that wouldnt solve the issue. People have to solve it for themselves by creating own groups. Problem here as someone mentioned before: Ask for 400 ap and no one will join because all wanna be carried. I dont think the problem will ever be solved. Many people are just stupid asking for "fast" or "super fast" runs in F8 and then you have to wait 2 minutes until they even join the dungeon. We have to deal with that world and the people on it.

[Draelth]

1 hour ago, SilentOne said:

That's it. Solution of this AP thingy is 100% upon the community. And that bring us to the very first solution: create your own pt with your rules. (or just hit the LFP button, im doing it for all dungs (6man mode) except tomb/citadel/mandate and 95% of them are smooth hm8 average runs)

 

I tried for dungeons like Nexus or Masts, If I don't request 550+ I never manage to complete a group for those.

[Maiden Jeanne]

when i have 450 ap, ppl find 500+, when i have 500 ppl find 550+ for same dungeons, actually i haave 587 and a lot of ppl find 650+ players to make same dungs  (sometimes i see ppl finding 550+ to make bsh :/)...

poor new players...

[Holybread]

1 hour ago, Maiden Jeanne said:

when i have 450 ap, ppl find 500+, when i have 500 ppl find 550+ for same dungeons, actually i haave 587 and a lot of ppl find 650+ players to make same dungs  (sometimes i see ppl finding 550+ to make bsh :/)...

poor new players...

exactly!!! we try to catch up on those requirements but everytime we hit those no. they require more for the same content.. some of them got neefed already that's why it's making me nut!

[Draelth]

3 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

i main bd so i can handle all CC's, grabs and even blocks by myself. But it rarely happen that i need to do it all. There is always some reaction when i ask simple question in chat. Who can double cc? Who can block? Everyone get only one flower per phrase. Wait till cat lures both adds to the boss. SB after we block the orbs. Its not that hard

No, I mean no one joins. I cleared that dungeon the first time with a group full of 450 (nexus) with no problems (everyone was there to finish their HM achivement)

[SilentOne]

40 minutes ago, Draelth said:

I tried for dungeons like Nexus or Masts, If I don't request 550+ I never manage to complete a group for those.

i main bd so i can handle all CC's, grabs and even blocks by myself. But it rarely happen that i need to do it all. There is always some reaction when i ask simple question in chat. Who can double cc? Who can block? Everyone get only one flower per phrase. Wait till cat lures both adds to the boss. SB after we block the orbs. Its not that hard

[SilentOne]

6 minutes ago, Draelth said:

No, I mean no one joins. I cleared that dungeon the first time with a group full of 450 (nexus) with no problems (everyone was there to finish their HM achivement)

Ah yes, that's actually true. That's another story. If you try to create like 450+ gloom, you barely see ppl joining, Its prolly cuz of ppl want to be carried in high ap party instead of doing some work by themselves. That's why in such cases might be LFP better.

[Unicorns]

I find it funny how so many ppl complain about it. This is brought up every couple months.
If there so many ppl that want to run the new dungeons with 550-600 ap why dont you all party together? Why does it take so long to make a 550-600 citadel party (or you cant even get 5 more people to join)? Could it be maybe because what people want is not a full 550-600 citadel party, but people with 700+ap to let them join their parties and just get carried throught it?

And as a side note, AP does not mean that much, i do ask for ap requiremnts, but if you meet that requirements and then i look at your ss and you are mixing yeti with ido with twsited and asura, and you have true siren accesories, your crit is crap your overall stats are crap, you are getting kicked because all you clearly know how to do is inflate your AP.

[Holybread]

I ask for achivements for high end dung... other than tha asura going below 500 is enough... 

[ancillary]

4 hours ago, desperado19 said:

Actually have half technical way to do dungeons..doesnt matter how much ap you have in most dungeons...like Ashura if you dont have belt which resist at ashura brand.Nope.You cant go for him.Already most people only weapons upgraded and forgot to upgrade their acs..so its good points dungeons to be restricted from acss

 

P.P.Sorry for such bad English skills

Two problems:

 

1. The belt is easy to get. It doesn't solve any problems.

 

2. You can in fact run 4 or 6 man Asura without the belt. You just need to not get hit and not tank flower damage. It's not hard at all and I have many runs of experience as a BD.

[hwalien]

I do most of my runs in random LFG thing.

one thing i've notice is that there are so many people who dies within 30 secs of fight but they never get DB.

some of these people doesn't even try.

I've once had someone getting mad at me because I couldn't kill yeti by myself on my desty when everyone else died at 1st ice phase.

at least those ppl in high AP group doesn't try to save their naryu coin.

 

[Arcainoh]

Speaking of ap requirements ran a pug tomb group last night with people in lfp with like 750 ap or more while i have 697 on my bm and when we finally get to last boss just because i do not know how to do the tomb 4 strategy because i consistently clear it once or twice a day with my clan using the 6 man strategy they called em a newb and hazed me calling me stupid and the likes saying i got carried on all my 43 runs of tomb when they have 500+ clears and that i have no right to be telling them about how to do the dg people like them *cricket* me off its like excuse me for having a life and not mindlessly farming a dg and doing other stuff. my clan group has all varying ap sometimes we carry one person with like 500 ap majority of our group is around 650+ ap but we clear it faster than a 750 ap group kinda sad. sorry if it seems like rant but those elitist whales with an attitude can stuff it majority of dungeons are more mechanics based than ap requirements

[babeln]

6 hours ago, Youmukon said:

Those who played TERA while MCHM was the hardest dungeon (~May 2013) know that no party whatsoever would recruit someone with just the minimum iLvl needed (147). Almost all parties looked at 158+, (or 155 when extremely desperate to find someone) 147 was a guaranteed instant kick. This is just one example between many.

Oooh, still cant find in ANY game, such perfect dungeon. I dont remember at all any requirements, it was least gear dependant / most mechanics dependant dungeon ever created, wiping people with 3 generations gear higher. Hmm my main had 380 mchm runs (and tera is not like this game, you can run 2max per day with elite, without reset, which has cd too). Selling runs (4manning it with one dead buyer waiting for loot) to people with 2x better gear than us.

Oh and when there was run with randoms? Never looked for gear, but inspected, while recruiting, if they are skilled.

 

5 hours ago, ancillary said:

2. As a group leader, I find that advertising low requirement sometimes will scare people away. This is all anecdotes, but I always find it very hard to find people when I ask only for 500+ for Gloom4 (imo it's more than enough). But if I advertise 600+ people rush in like crazy.

This is the most sad part about that. Pugs with ridiculous ammounts of ap requirements fill way faster.

 

6 hours ago, Youmukon said:

Having minimum AP requirements enforced by us wouldn't really solve much. Actually other titles enforcing minimum iLvl to participate in dungeons already proved that this feature was ineffective when it comes to changing the mind-set of the Community.

I believe, at least a bit, at least eliminate trolls, at least those who asks 2x more, might feel shame or something. Every bit helps.

 

6 hours ago, Youmukon said:

I still do agree however that it would be beneficial for everyone to actually have a gear score which would be calculated according to more than just AP (taking accuracy and critical damage/chance in consideration etc.). That would at least give players a more accurate benchmark on how well geared they are. However this will certainly not make the Community stop asking for high requirements even when not necessary. There's just no technical way to fix that.

Another bits and pieces which would help. Bit and another bit, still better than nothing. Third bit would be inspectable skilled status (10+ clears) in lobby, and some buff or bonus for carrying rookie. Whole this ridiculous mess would be 3 bits better, which would be felt considerable.

[KzE]

19 hours ago, Youmukon said:

Having minimum AP requirements enforced by us wouldn't really solve much. Actually other titles enforcing minimum iLvl to participate in dungeons already proved that this feature was ineffective when it comes to changing the mind-set of the Community.

 

Developers have to put the bar low (after all we are talking about minimum requirements) to avoid excluding too many players. A minimum requirement means that a well-organized party with skilled players would be able to clear the content as long as they meet requirements. Obviously when you are in a pick-up group not everyone is knowledgeable about the mechanics, not everyone is skilled. Add the latency and so on, there are high chances for a party of 4/6 players having just the minimum required gear to fail the dungeon.

 

This inevitably lead to the Community raising the bar themselves (exactly like how the situation is in-game right now) and asking for higher requirements. Developer-enforced restrictions then become pointless. What good does it do to set a 400AP minimum for a dungeon if everyone is going to ask for 550+? At best it filters out extremely poorly geared players and/or some trolls. But that's about it and this isn't what the Community is mostly complaining about.

 

Those who played TERA while MCHM was the hardest dungeon (~May 2013) know that no party whatsoever would recruit someone with just the minimum iLvl needed (147). Almost all parties looked at 158+, (or 155 when extremely desperate to find someone) 147 was a guaranteed instant kick. This is just one example between many.

 

I still do agree however that it would be beneficial for everyone to actually have a gear score which would be calculated according to more than just AP (taking accuracy and critical damage/chance in consideration etc.). That would at least give players a more accurate benchmark on how well geared they are. However this will certainly not make the Community stop asking for high requirements even when not necessary. There's just no technical way to fix that.

Devs think this is the minimum for Desolate Tomb :

 

 

Even with 6 skilled players i dont think its possible to clear tomb with this gear. With a real minimum requirements you can make the LFP work. Sure community raised the bar, because a basic element (instance matching) is not functional.

 

Tera Online : that minimum ilvl was enough to clear MCHM, if you had the knowledge about mechanics (it was super easy to change that debuff) and superb reflexes (this was the hardest part, avoiding all those aoes in 0,2 sec). Later ppl just checked, if someone have the skilled logo or still rookie. Community was like this, they discriminated rookies. Devs implemented rookie buff (better drop rate), parties accepted at least one rookie. When the rookie buff was gone, the rookie turned into skilled. Same for matchmaking, if you used it, you get better drop at the end.

 

And this is the western version, the players mentality is not same with eastern players. Here you need to force things to work. Sad, but true.

[Dr SoulReaper]

17 hours ago, Unicorns said:

I find it funny how so many ppl complain about it. This is brought up every couple months.
If there so many ppl that want to run the new dungeons with 550-600 ap why dont you all party together? Why does it take so long to make a 550-600 citadel party (or you cant even get 5 more people to join)? Could it be maybe because what people want is not a full 550-600 citadel party, but people with 700+ap to let them join their parties and just get carried throught it?

And as a side note, AP does not mean that much, i do ask for ap requiremnts, but if you meet that requirements and then i look at your ss and you are mixing yeti with ido with twsited and asura, and you have true siren accesories, your crit is crap your overall stats are crap, you are getting kicked because all you clearly know how to do is inflate your AP.

So what would you do to someone who has a messed up ss (yes i admit this but am currently trying to correct this), 571ap, awakened oath accs, 121% accuracy, 55% crit, 195% crit damage and 1487 defense? (SS: Asura: 1,2,6 Scorp: 3,4 yeti: 5 Be-Ido: 7,8)

[KzE]

41 minutes ago, Dr SoulReaper said:

So what would you do to someone who has a messed up ss (yes i admit this but am currently trying to correct this), 571ap, awakened oath accs, 121% accuracy, 55% crit, 195% crit damage and 1487 defense? (SS: Asura: 1,2,6 Scorp: 3,4 yeti: 5 Be-Ido: 7,8)

He or she (idk) will kick you because of sub 200% crit damage before checking the ss.

[Naeza]

8 minutes ago, KzE said:

He or she (idk) will kick you because of sub 200% crit damage before checking the ss.

huh,this confuse me? why the sub 200% crit? whats wrong with it? too low?

[KzE]

16 minutes ago, Naeza said:

huh,this confuse me? why the sub 200% crit? whats wrong with it? too low?

Top players have around 245%, i have 210% with crappy accessories. Yes 195% with 571ap is low, even my 210% is low with 636ap.

[Naeza]

5 minutes ago, KzE said:

Top players have around 245%, i have 210% with crappy accessories. Yes 195% with 571ap is low, even my 210% is low with 636ap.

i see,but what dungeon require that much crit?  citadel? i'm asking this because i am wondering if i need that much crit to go sundered nexus/yeti.

[KzE]

2 hours ago, Naeza said:

i see,but what dungeon require that much crit?  citadel? i'm asking this because i am wondering if i need that much crit to go sundered nexus/yeti.

The crit chance and crit damage is your dps. Higher stats, better results.

[Youmukon]

4 hours ago, KzE said:

Devs think this is the minimum for Desolate Tomb :

 

 

Even with 6 skilled players i dont think its possible to clear tomb with this gear. With a real minimum requirements you can make the LFP work. Sure community raised the bar, because a basic element (instance matching) is not functional.

 

Tera Online : that minimum ilvl was enough to clear MCHM, if you had the knowledge about mechanics (it was super easy to change that debuff) and superb reflexes (this was the hardest part, avoiding all those aoes in 0,2 sec). Later ppl just checked, if someone have the skilled logo or still rookie. Community was like this, they discriminated rookies. Devs implemented rookie buff (better drop rate), parties accepted at least one rookie. When the rookie buff was gone, the rookie turned into skilled. Same for matchmaking, if you used it, you get better drop at the end.

 

And this is the western version, the players mentality is not same with eastern players. Here you need to force things to work. Sad, but true.

Don't get me wrong I perfectly agree that the current minimum right now in-game don't make much sense when all that's checked is a weapon and nothing else, just like how AP isn't everything... But you are talking about a different issue: severely under-geared players or trolls joining parties. The thread is about the Community setting requirements which are beyond what could be called "reasonable". And as I wrote, enforcing gear requirement won't prevent that.

 

When it comes to trolling (i.e. someone joining a party with the sole purpose of making it fail, regardless of the gear they have), you can report these straight to our Customer Support for griefing.

 

Regarding the Rookie buff mechanic, it certainly didn't prevent ilvl 147 to be instant kicked, Rookie or not (and that was in ~April, months after the initial release of the content). The Community still enforced drastic rules and people below 155 had virtually no chance to get accepted into a party. The problem is: if we enforce X as a minimum, the Community will enforce X+[whatever they judge necessary to secure a painless dungeon clear]. Hence why the solution isn't really on our end when it comes to the very issue raised in this thread.

 

Having a Rookie Buff in Blade & Soul could be tricky to implement. Do we consider Alts rookies even though the main character cleared the content already? What should the buff give? Wouldn't there be a risk to segregate the Community even more, especially players who lost their rookie buff but whose gear is still not high-end? Risks of exploiting the buff/selling it by just leveling multiple alts? Making the buff desirable without making it too overpowered etc. Rookie Buff just sounds like a Band-Aid to me, trying to alter the Community Mind-set through game systems like this one is usually counterproductive. 

[FrozenB]

6 hours ago, KzE said:

Devs think this is the minimum for Desolate Tomb :

 

 

Even with 6 skilled players i dont think its possible to clear tomb with this gear. With a real minimum requirements you can make the LFP work. Sure community raised the bar, because a basic element (instance matching) is not functional.

 

Tera Online : that minimum ilvl was enough to clear MCHM, if you had the knowledge about mechanics (it was super easy to change that debuff) and superb reflexes (this was the hardest part, avoiding all those aoes in 0,2 sec). Later ppl just checked, if someone have the skilled logo or still rookie. Community was like this, they discriminated rookies. Devs implemented rookie buff (better drop rate), parties accepted at least one rookie. When the rookie buff was gone, the rookie turned into skilled. Same for matchmaking, if you used it, you get better drop at the end.

 

And this is the western version, the players mentality is not same with eastern players. Here you need to force things to work. Sad, but true.

Well...after you ran certain dungeons several times, you should know what kind of AP required to clear the dungeons in different level (painlessly, okay or very hard but still can finished it). That's before we even talk about knowing the mechanic in the dungeons. Even if we know the mechanics and perform perfectly, without enough AP will not be able to clear the boss in time, which lead to party wipe. 

 

In term of the trollers with the gears like you posted, I believe you used the LFP button for the dungeons. I never use LFP button for the dungeons in F8 except the blue ones (because i can solo them). Even with 700AP+ players, with LFP button, there are high chance to have leechers anyways. I always join the party in the register tab by following their requirements. 

 

Certainly, nowadays, people are setting high AP requirements even for low level dungeons, but who doesn't want to fly through the dungeons and move to the next one? I guess you need to make a dungeon party yourself with your own AP requirement and let other join your party. For sure, it will take a bit longer, but it is still better than using lfp in my opinion. The other solution is to join a clan that is willing to help lowbies to run dungeons when they have time. 

[KzE]

2 hours ago, Youmukon said:

But you are talking about a different issue: severely under-geared players or trolls joining parties. The thread is about the Community setting requirements which are beyond what could be called "reasonable". And as I wrote, enforcing gear requirement won't prevent that.

This is the same issue. Ppl left the non-functional LFP (no gear check, afk players, bots, trolls) and created parties based AP. And this AP based parties went out of hand because of reasons (unlimited farming time, money based progression, luck based progression). But nobody will even care about them, if the LFP works. So just fix that LFP already.

 

2 hours ago, Youmukon said:

Having a Rookie Buff in Blade & Soul could be tricky to implement.

We dont need to implement this. Just fix the LFP and put a small bonus reward, like event box for dailies for using it.

 

58 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

In term of the trollers with the gears like you posted, I believe you used the LFP button for the dungeons. I never use LFP button for the dungeons in F8 except the blue ones (because i can solo them). Even with 700AP+ players, with LFP button, there are high chance to have leechers anyways. I always join the party in the register tab by following their requirements. 

And what if cant find party in register, because you dont have enough runs? You will try LFP? Or just uninstal the game?

[KugekiAme]

Ok, so like one problem I noticed. People post for faster runs, due to how they're AP is already higher..Now, not saying that's bad, or good. We pretty much, seclude ourselves as the higher end players. I've not really been into Desolate Tomb yet, and aim to get into higher end dungeons. Although, I am pretty close. It's really a question, why do you need 700 ap for desolate tomb? All the time, I mean sure It's nice to have 700 ap people, and it helps the dungeon go a lot faster. However, when anyone can just click a button. Join your quene, and troll the living crap out of others? With a true profane weapon, or in BG's right now? Without any crit defense, you really need to stop people from joining at all without a certain requirement. Dungeons, we just evolve our weapon past a point, and noting how we can quene for anything above our level? 

 

There has to be a limit, if this is how trolls, and bots at times are players. Whom don't care if they lose rating, but really ruin the game for people whom are. Due to how they claim:"I have other things to do, rather than just sit down playing games all day." Sure, I mean we all in a way just do, or don't..So, get off the game, and get a work out. No one cares basically, for a little cry baby excuse. At times, when I am playing dumb in the community? I watch people, whom are actually playing the game. At times, I will act like my deaths matter, or their deaths don't to see a reaction. Why, simple.."People whom put a faction uniform on, to pvp are flagged, but can we not just pick on them?" There is a three button, you know kids, and I love to see either side get wrekked for putting that faction uniform on. Yeah, I love pvp, and think either side is kind of just going at others. Whom, can actually, or don't want to limit how many times we can kill you. So what, get over it, and you know fair enough?

 

We kill you, you troll our dungeons, and really hold us back on alts from making so-called:"Progress." When, this will end? I look forward to seeing bots crying, and people actually dying to bosses..They made attempts on, rather people whom flag themselves..Dyeing, then not complaining at all, and then I might not need to see the bad etiquette from both sides of this community. I'm pretty chill, I like to watch them, and be on either side regardless. That's why, I laugh when killing them, and reverse it to see why it matters at all to begin with.Pretty much, imagine a Bg where, and this zero crit defense BD kicked my butt on a warlock. I mean, I whispered him, and I think it was like the highlight of his life. So, haters make me famous you know? Best way to look at it, then enjoy the game play. There are specifics, when it comes to classes..That at times, I agree with the BD whom tanned my hide..You just know how to apply things, and use them differently in certain situations. So, at times the AP, or Crit Defense isn't all that valuable. Unless you have like 2000, or something. Yes, it does help, but isn't always needed.. The problem, is when the whole other team has it..Then, you get rolled in the dirt..Or, Beat the crap out of by some KFM. Resist, resist, and they're all laughing at you raging. I simply, at times get a sense of relief, because I know we won't win every battle. However, would like people to at least come prepared.