this ap requirements are making me nuts...

[Shadovvv]

I've been in hour-long wipes in Ebondrake Citadel, even in the 700 APs, just because people were failing mechanics despite me pulling flawless stealth. I also met one 700 AP Sin who did literally nothing but run around in circles and die for the hour-long wipe in 6-man Citadel, he made zero attempt to chi revive and effectively was leeching; thankfully nothing special dropped after.

 

Also met another 720 AP Sin who did the exact same thing during Winter Mane. Every other one 500 and rest 600s was dying because no one was CCing or getting the pierce buff.

 

Goes to show you can't even rely on the highest of APs.

 

----

 

In Citadel and Tomb you really only need 500 AP at minimum, maybe even less. There's already videos where people have duo'd the instance, and obviously they have way less DPS than a full 6-man party. Now, let's do some math:

• Zakhan has 38.6 million HP, and has an enrage timer of 9 minutes or 540 seconds. Without mechanics, it's 12k DPS per player out of 6 (38.6m/540sec = 71,5k dps/6 = ~12k dps).
  • Zakhan chunks himself for about 3 million HP five times, or 15m in total, thereby reducing his true HP to 23m. Plugging that in, we get 7k DPS per player out of 6 (23m/540sec = 42.6k dps / 6 = 7k dps).
  • Keep in mind everyone gets a 20% attack power buff, bringing everyone's AP from 500 to 600. It's certainly possible for everyone to hit over 7k DPS at that stage, especially with the buff.
• Lord of the Flame has 42 million HP, and has an enrage timer of 8:20 minutes, or 500 seconds. Without mechanics, its 14k DPS per player out of 6 (42m/500sec = 84k dps/6 = 14k dps).
  • Lord of the Flame chunks himself for 3.4 million HP four times, or 13.6 million in total, thereby reducing his true HP to 28.4m. Plugging that in, we get 9.5k DPS per player out of 6 (28.4m/500sec = 56.8k dps/6 = 9.5k dps).
  • Everyone, except the marker, gets a 50% attack power buff, bringing everyone's AP from 500 to 750, along with a 50% crit damage buff, making it very much doable to reach 9.5k DPS.

 

Let's be honest, the AP and achievement requirements are just stupid, and is pretty much driving a big wedge in the playerbase.

[KugekiAme]

21 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

I've been in hour-long wipes in Ebondrake Citadel, even in the 700 APs, just because people were failing mechanics despite me pulling flawless stealth. I also met one 700 AP Sin who did literally nothing but run around in circles and die for the hour-long wipe in 6-man Citadel, he made zero attempt to chi revive and effectively was leeching; thankfully nothing special dropped after.

 

Also met another 720 AP Sin who did the exact same thing during Winter Mane. Every other one 500 and rest 600s was dying because no one was CCing or getting the pierce buff.

 

Goes to show you can't even rely on the highest of APs.

 

----

 

In Citadel and Tomb you really only need 500 AP at minimum, maybe even less. There's already videos where people have duo'd the instance, and obviously they have way less DPS than a full 6-man party. Now, let's do some math:

• Zakhan has 38.6 million HP, and has an enrage timer of 9 minutes or 540 seconds. Without mechanics, it's 12k DPS per player out of 6 (38.6m/540sec = 71,5k dps/6 = ~12k dps).
  • Zakhan chunks himself for about 3 million HP five times, or 15m in total, thereby reducing his true HP to 23m. Plugging that in, we get 7k DPS per player out of 6 (23m/540sec = 42.6k dps / 6 = 7k dps).
  • Keep in mind everyone gets a 20% attack power buff, bringing everyone's AP from 500 to 600. It's certainly possible for everyone to hit over 7k DPS at that stage, especially with the buff.
• Lord of the Flame has 42 million HP, and has an enrage timer of 8:20 minutes, or 500 seconds. Without mechanics, its 14k DPS per player out of 6 (42m/500sec = 84k dps/6 = 14k dps).
  • Lord of the Flame chunks himself for 3.4 million HP four times, or 13.6 million in total, thereby reducing his true HP to 28.4m. Plugging that in, we get 9.5k DPS per player out of 6 (28.4m/500sec = 56.8k dps/6 = 9.5k dps).
  • Everyone, except the marker, gets a 50% attack power buff, bringing everyone's AP from 500 to 750, along with a 50% crit damage buff, making it very much doable to reach 9.5k DPS.

 

Let's be honest, the AP and achievement requirements are just stupid, and is pretty much driving a big wedge in the playerbase.

I think the biggest part, AP means nothing. Mechanics are a big portion of a boss, that excuse nobody..Which is part of a carry, if you need one at all. I found that the funny wedge, was simply as to the individual. So, I really don't see how all AP, or things besides achievements show others? Hey, I can do it! 

[MushinKFM]

On 7.10.2016 at 0:03 AM, CrimsonDuskEU said:

no AP requirements here. Just had a guy in a 650AP room below requirement( 570AP)  in asura6. I kept him. Guess what ? He fked up mechanics and didn't even play his role correctly. Asked him (as I play the same class) why he doesn't do X and Y. He tells me "*cricket* off". I overlook his gear, keep him in, be nice, and what do I get ? An ingrateful kid who's also toxic and noob. Do I want to go through the same thing again ? no.

First. Wtf dood.

 

I have my clanmates enter asura6 with 450-470 and just give them a role. They do it better than any high ap group (well I train yeti4 with them first /req 400+ and yeti SS).

 

To the new instances. As much as you ask for Exp group and high AP it won't help you since all the players learn is to invest in gearing but not on learning to do things right. So with this endless circle what we're getting are players who turn dumber and dumber just for the sake of someones egoism or trying to make fast ingame profit before going to work.

 

Don't queue Deso Tomb if you have stuff to do! Don't, as soon as one guy *cricket*s up you can wipe, and wipe and wipe and it costs time and nerves. If you don't want to either be the elitist and hope for the best or help players understand that they have to be concentrated for once and use their brain.

 

When I read it I feel disgusted by NA community. Here in EU I see 600+ ebon and tomb most of the time which I find to be ok.

 

Still a pity to see players that doubt my decision of bringing my low gear mates into high dungs and doing just fine in the end.

 

 

[KugekiAme]

14 minutes ago, MushinKFM said:

First. Wtf dood.

 

I have my clanmates enter asura6 with 450-470 and just give them a role. They do it better than any high ap group (well I train yeti4 with them first /req 400+ and yeti SS).

 

To the new instances. As much as you ask for Exp group and high AP it won't help you since all the players learn is to invest in gearing but not on learning to do things right. So with this endless circle what we're getting are players who turn dumber and dumber just for the sake of someones egoism or trying to make fast ingame profit before going to work.

 

Don't queue Deso Tomb if you have stuff to do! Don't, as soon as one guy *cricket*s up you can wipe, and wipe and wipe and it costs time and nerves. If you don't want to either be the elitist and hope for the best or help players understand that they have to be concentrated for once and use their brain.

 

When I read it I feel disgusted by NA community. Here in EU I see 600+ ebon and tomb most of the time which I find to be ok.

 

Still a pity to see players that doubt my decision of bringing my low gear mates into high dungs and doing just fine in the end.

 

 

Here is the key element in pugs, because I will not be bias here. To say attack power matters at all times, but it makes the run easier. Just mechanics alone, are at times not enough to say you've got skill. For the most part, ncsoft.com really needs to clean out the bots. I would rather clear the run with a human, and not a drone. Now, if you simply want to waste my time, and say you need hongmoon levels? Get caught botting, I have no problems laughing at you. Not saying, it still isn't being done, although no attempts so far have been made it seems to solve these issues. So, it impacts who we want to help, and who we can at all.

[KugekiAme]

http://prnt.sc/ctjaj8

 

Part of you college kids, you whom simply rather be at school. I'd recommend, you stay in school, and don't make a bot do your work. I do believe, other people complain about having a life, but some complain about how others never get one. Consider this a really big slap in the face to your everyday college students, because everything is extended study from high school work. Now, if I may? Seven dangers to human virtue? Anyone want to tell me what those are?

 

Wealthy, without work.

Pleasure, without consequence. 

Knowledge, without character.

Business, without ethics.

Science, without humanity.

Religion, without sacrifice.

Politics, without principle.

 

So, how is it that different in a video game, or is it just a different economy?

[MushinKFM]

@KugekiAme isn't it a shame a summoner bot joining yeti6 turned out to be more useful than any brainless pug avialable. I had 2 runs of yeti6 with bots in it.. and it was smooth as hell.

Mechanics paired with knowledge of your class does it, no AP will save you from a huge ping spike or terrible rotation.

Only VPN and skill can make you quite a valueable player to be worth high PUGs.

 

My Twink BD was top tier DD with perf mech use months ago, high AP guy wanted me to join dungeons where the community req are much higher and ya know we did it np.

 

It's just that some humans are scum and can't trust or believe in a positive outcome

[KugekiAme]

@MushinKFM It's not going to make a difference, you cannot alter majority rules. Let me make a very interesting joke, because I think it will be funny. 

 

@MushinKFM Joke:"Whom are you voting for in 2016 election year?" 

 

@MushinKFM Punchline:"Everything is governed by social hysteria, and now games too? Oh man, then just make this the new 2012."

 

@MushinKFM It's rather, whom has skill, and whom has AP? What's the difference, why does it matter, or does it at all now that we haven't fixed any problems so far?

 

@MushinKFM Answer:"We just like having it easy, not harder..That's basically all I gather from this chat."

[Unicorns]

On 13/10/2016 at 11:46 AM, Youmukon said:

Don't get me wrong I perfectly agree that the current minimum right now in-game don't make much sense when all that's checked is a weapon and nothing else, just like how AP isn't everything... But you are talking about a different issue: severely under-geared players or trolls joining parties. The thread is about the Community setting requirements which are beyond what could be called "reasonable". And as I wrote, enforcing gear requirement won't prevent that.

 

When it comes to trolling (i.e. someone joining a party with the sole purpose of making it fail, regardless of the gear they have), you can report these straight to our Customer Support for griefing.

 

Well, but they need to make sense, and something needs to be done, because sometimes you need to lfp once you are in a dungeon because someone left/dc and never came back, and if you are on the last boss you dont want to just leave, and atm pretty much anyone can lfp for dungeons like tomb or citadel.

Look at this, does this look like someone who can comeplete desolate tomb? Yet he can walk into any tomb party.



Can i report this guy? For what exactly? Games lets him join tomb, so hes doing nothing wrong ,yet hes gona ruin which ever party he joins because he CAN NOT RUN TOMB.

[RainbowDashie]

10 hours ago, Unicorns said:

Can i report this guy? For what exactly? Games lets him join tomb, so hes doing nothing wrong ,yet hes gona ruin which ever party he joins because he CAN NOT RUN TOMB.

he ruin tomb runs? how exactly? use 4 man tactic and if he got marked let him die and continue with 5. in that dungeon you can easily take 2 gyus with you which didnt even saw yeti....

[Alysha Hawkeye]

39 minutes ago, RainbowDashie said:

he ruin tomb runs? how exactly? use 4 man tactic and if he got marked let him die and continue with 5. in that dungeon you can easily take 2 gyus with you which didnt even saw yeti....

His accuracy is too low to score anything meaningful DPS on the boss, lest his AP, critical rate or damage. Basically a leecher. Chance that he doesn't know the mechanic and doing stupid things like drop lava puddle under the boss in the middle of the room, prevent marker to approach the boss without dying. Or he just carry a bomb and explode next to someone.Or decide to be smart and throw random smokescreen that screw other sin/sum party-stealth when they really need it. A lot of way he can screw up your run and make your party member ragequit, thus end your run.  If I have to run 6-man tomb with one guy like this, I rather run 5-man or 4-man instead. Too bad that there is no vote-kick on online players. The best that guy can do is killing himself, lie down somewhere for the party to progress alone.

 

A lot of things that can happen with an inexperienced. You can know mechanics, but it doesn't mean you are experienced. Experienced players adapt to situations and minimize loss even when they commit mistakes. High AP doesn't mean experienced, as they may be account-buyers or non-knowledgeable whales. However, if high AP is a crystal of efforts through months of grind, they tend to be competent and devoted players.

 

AP requirement is just like a standard for job recruitment. You graduate as an engineer from a university does not mean that your skill is much better than someone not have any academic achievements. However, in the eyes of an employer, which one you will believe to be better to employ: graduated student vs self-claimed self-learning freelancer?

[Sonozaki]

To get this whole topic solved in short:

 

Exp req. in PUGs make sense, i don't wanna run with people who don't know mechs, no matter their gear.

 

AP req. make sense as well, cus i want to run this dung 10x a day, it's a significant difference if it takes 20 or 30 min.

 

Also, higher AP are a kind of failsafe. If you are running with a full 550 group, which is possible, one player dead means enrage. While in a 750 AP party, you can still finish when there are only 2 left (not in tomb ofc).

 

When i'm running premade with my clan i don't mind low AP, since everyone is in voice chat and everyone knows mechanics o at least can get them explained fast, but i wouldnt ever dare doing so in a PUG unless it's a dungeon that i can carry solo if needed, like asura, yeti, nexus, etc.

 

People crying over high AP req are, in my eyes, the worst kind of leechers.

They could make their own low AP partys, but they don't. Why?

Yet they complain others dont do low AP partys. Why?

There is only one possible answer: They want to get carried by high AP people.

[AgentBun]

On 10/6/2016 at 10:00 PM, Parenthesis said:

Tl;dr

make your own party.

^ This

 

Or register your own party:

[Holybread]

lol I run ebon 100+ times now with a little over 600 ap... and still getting kicked on pt's when I join and tell them that I will link my achiv. and I never get a chance to do tomb because no one really care about most of achiv and just look into ap's... hmmm I got 2 people running with me everyday now and trying to build up some friends that are kind enough to take me to tomb once a day... cause I pretty much does all the mechs that I can cover on ebon to make the run smooth... so they give back by giving me some exp on tomb once in a while to get used to it... 

[Dr SoulReaper]

After looking at the TW cross server seems like they have a somewhat interesting way of handling stuff for the latest naryu dungeons... that being putting the weapon requireements to true scorpio stage 10... which does set a pretty decentish benchmark (i feel) for where players should be gear wise for those dungeons... thou the lack of f2 still confuses me at times... so idk how useful it really is... might be awesome here to have requirements that are specific like that who knows

[KzE]

5 hours ago, AgentBun said:

^ This

 

Or register your own party:

And you still cant get 6 ppl together. You make the room, 1 or 2 join. After 5 min nothing, both leave, but someone join again. Another 1 joins, after 3 min leave. And this is going for hours.

[Holybread]

true!!!! but if you put in 650+ people are swarming!!!

[Kisagii]

Well for me when I run the new dungeons for 6man I recruit at most is 650ap. Though if someone lower than that comes the first thing I check are their soul shields, then stats. If I think it's good then I keep them if it's not then kick.

 

I've carried a few 300ap people into 4man dungeons so as long as they don't die too quickly and know what to do then I'm fine with them.

 

 

tbh the main reason why people recruit so high is to get the dungeon done faster so they don't spend a long time on it and move on. If people don't like that then all you need to do is make your own party, there will always be people wanting to join.

[KzE]

1 hour ago, Kisagii said:

tbh the main reason why people recruit so high is to get the dungeon done faster so they don't spend a long time on it and move on. If people don't like that then all you need to do is make your own party, there will always be people wanting to join.

Main reason is to skip mechanics, because they cant do it or dont want to do it. Own party is not working, read above.

[Holybread]

I understand the fact that people want things to go fast... but doing tomb and citadel is way diff story... it's all about mechs... I party up with 700+ people and they keep on failing with the mechs which turns out for multiple wipes and some people raging out and left party... so it took more time and energy than usual...

[KugekiAme]

I agree, part of why I joined a guild at this point. It's the only exception, because you know you're a guildie. XD

[DrowningEarth]

IMO it's time to just get rid of F2, or make it display non-stat related info. We already have the DPS meter, and even that is no guarantee for the mechanics side of things. AP requirements these days are only reinforcing a false sense of security.

 

I tried the Asura challenge yesterday in 3 different groups with people 550-600 and up. Saw wipes all over the place.