this ap requirements are making me nuts...

[naiku]

Well, I'm a 700+ AP guy, and I make my own parties for citadel all the time, all I ask is 600+ AP, just so that the run doesn't take that long, and I don't ask for exp too, i just ask if everybody knows what to do, and if not I do a quick intro, since the instance is super easy. I guess people just want to run the instance as fast as possible. But I have seen 700+ braindead people, its not always about the ap. My constant group with 650+ ap clears the instance faster with 4 people, then 700+ap randoms, since they have a lot of AP but have no clue how to dps properly, it's not always about the AP.

 

 

Just try to make your own parties, to bad we don't have the sandbox system, because I have ran with really good people but from different servers, and I'd love to do it some more, but since they are on a different server I can't pm them.

[Dr SoulReaper]

41 minutes ago, naiku said:

Well, I'm a 700+ AP guy, and I make my own parties for citadel all the time, all I ask is 600+ AP, just so that the run doesn't take that long, and I don't ask for exp too, i just ask if everybody knows what to do, and if not I do a quick intro, since the instance is super easy. I guess people just want to run the instance as fast as possible. But I have seen 700+ braindead people, its not always about the ap. My constant group with 650+ ap clears the instance faster with 4 people, then 700+ap randoms, since they have a lot of AP but have no clue how to dps properly, it's not always about the AP.

 

 

Just try to make your own parties, to bad we don't have the sandbox system, because I have ran with really good people but from different servers, and I'd love to do it some more, but since they are on a different server I can't pm them.

i would gladly join you for citadel parties... if i was 600+ (imma scrub 571... lol) but currently i feel over geared for what i can do... even thou i haven't done 4 man Asura (due to my own lack of self confidence). Its really sad seeing stupid numbers for dungeons we are already over geared for... right i guess brawn is beating brains... bleh where are smart people? :(

[naiku]

1 hour ago, Dr SoulReaper said:

i would gladly join you for citadel parties... if i was 600+ (imma scrub 571... lol) but currently i feel over geared for what i can do... even thou i haven't done 4 man Asura (due to my own lack of self confidence). Its really sad seeing stupid numbers for dungeons we are already over geared for... right i guess brawn is beating brains... bleh where are smart people? :(

Yes, we are completely over geared for the content, in Ebondrace 6 man party with 650+ ap, the first 2 boses melt like nothing, because Ebondrake on Korea was introduced much earlier, and the Tomb came there only after the 24man legendary turtle instance.
I'm pretty sure people with 500+ would have no problem clearing the instance, it would take them just a bit longer, but overall the instance is super easy. There are really good guides out too, I like the best one to be the one from Siang the streamer, its simple, he points out things well, and you don't have to read or watch a 3h youtube video.

 

Tomb would be preferable 600+ just so you don't get to the enrage points, but Tomb is much harder, and the neckless boost is very very good compared to ring.

[MasterBlaster]

The problem is this game allows you to be way overgeared for current content so whales and no lifer can reach a point of being way overgeared for the content allowing them to ask for whatever they want because they can. Nothing against no lifers and whales of course, if you wanna spend 10+ hours everyday or if you wanna spend hundreds or thousands on a game than its your choice.

 

When you look at some of the other mmo. You can't really get too overgeared for their current endgame dungeon so people have a better understanding on how much requirements are meant for their dungeons. In Blade and Soul, the endgame which is desolate tomb and citadel is six 600-620 ap for 6 man and four 650-680ap for 4man. But because of how this game allows you to be extremely overgear for current content, you'll see people asking for 700-750 for just 6 man. Not the player's fault of course, they have 700+ap so if they wanna ask for that high than they can. It's mostly the game's fault for having this system in the first place where it allows people to be well overgear for their current content.

 

The good news is Citadel and Desolate Tomb are the highest requirement dungeons for the rest of this year according to the producer's note so it'll allow a lot of players to somewhat catch up. While i think the majority of the players still won't reach 700 by december, it should still allow most players to reach the 650+ mark at least.

[CrimsonDuskEU]

no AP requirements here. Just had a guy in a 650AP room below requirement( 570AP)  in asura6. I kept him. Guess what ? He fked up mechanics and didn't even play his role correctly. Asked him (as I play the same class) why he doesn't do X and Y. He tells me "*cricket* off". I overlook his gear, keep him in, be nice, and what do I get ? An ingrateful kid who's also toxic and noob. Do I want to go through the same thing again ? no.

[Cockasian]

I don't require crazy AP like 700, but I do ask for a minimum of 500 - 550AP for things up to Asura.  I do this for a few reasons:

 

Firstly the rage timer.  You can know mechs all you want, but if we get wiped from the timer it's worthless.

 

Secondly, I have 600 AP and I'm ranged.  I don't want to be the tank in every... single... boss fight.  I've found if I let guys with 450 AP come into something like Nexus then I have to not only crank the dps to avoid the rage timer but I also have to try and manage the aggro that I can't get off of me.

 

But yes, the 700AP and the "link 10+ achievement" on the first day of a dungeon is stupid.  I've seen 650AP minimums for YETI 6 MAN and other nonsense but I just ignore that.

[Holybread]

reasonble requirement is alright but asking for too much seems to be super crazy... asking 600+ on 4man yeti is too much already... I understand people want to bypass some mechs but it's doable for 500+ people as long as they do mechs right... imo...

[babeln]

On 7. 10. 2016 at 3:17 AM, JoannaRamira said:

 

 

 

Well im not surprised...Remember our last Vipercap event

 

Some people actually put 550+++ AP req for Vipercap.

it was totally not rare thing, i remember it clearly, it was every day, every moment...

i couldnt even find party with my 36 alt from start, so i did just lfg, we had 2 dc, all lvl 36-45 4man easy win... never seen fail there, for all the time

i am actually surprised, that theres not so many tower ap requirements pugs, tho, its kinda worthless event imo, gives nothing much interesting

 

about high ap requirements... well... people try to filter quality of players by this, but its utter nonsense, who to blame? dumb sheeps who just blindly follow some fail idea, or devs, who arent able to implement inspectable rookie/skilled status, some overal gear score, not just single stat, theres not recommended or minimal "ap" for dungeons, etc...

Instead theres big bold number, above all stats... which sadly means cricket... crit+crit damage are way more important than 20ap difference at 600+ range, but most of times it means, gtfo! you cant run with us LOL

 

devs dont care, because it doesnt bring them anything, on the contrary, this pushing and encouraging more and more gear, just brings them money in the end

 

Btw all this lowering upgrade prices, only crashes market even more, and raises AP demands for most primitive dungeons in f8, solves nothing at all. Theres regularly some bullcricket like BSH fastrun 600+, every time when its on DC. Oh and btw this groups fill usually faster than BSH fastrun pugs (without that 600+), same with yeti and all. Necro6 650+++++++++ superfast run, i allways wonder, wth they can do faster, kill jihansi faster? cuz rest is timegated, and boss enrage timer is 2,5min. Icri.

[Draelth]

Everyone is free to request whatever they want thats for sure but current AP request for most of 6 man dungeons are an overkill.

 

With balanced stats (enough accuracy, 45-50% critical chance and around 185-190% critical damage) and a good party composition requirements for an easy and fast run should be something like this for 6 man:

 

400 AP: Lair, Necropolis and Nerfed Yeti.

 

450 AP: Cold Storage, Nexus and Heaven's Mandate.

 

500 AP: Incursion, Masts and Sogun's.

 

550 AP: Citadel.

 

600 AP: Desolate Tomb.

 

Sadly now everyone is requesting like 550+, I would't be surprise if in a month or so will jump to 600+, and new players belive those are the minimun needed stats. At this rate NCsoft would be forced to do two things: nerf to the ground all 6 man (probably this won't work, people still request like 500 or more for Yeti after Nerf) dungeons but current endgame or literally give away gear for new players/alts.

[babeln]

14 minutes ago, Draelth said:

At this rate NCsoft would be forced to do two things: nerf to the ground all 6 man (probably this won't work, people still request like 500 or more for Yeti after Nerf) dungeons but current endgame or literally give away gear for new players/alts.

It wont work, because look, POH6 550+ BSH6 550+ Naryu 600+ ... i remember 4man poh fastrun was 380ap, bsh 4man 400ap, and naryu 420

I believe if there would be at least recommended ap for dungeons (tho ap really means crap cricket nothing) maybe shame asking for 2x more would hold those noobs back.

[KzE]

Just disable player info like in JP/TW version.

[KzE]

Just now, SilentOne said:

and get citadel pt full of scrubs who aren't even able to handle tower of memory mechanic. rip

Because 800Ap can handle? Or knowledge about mechanics is tied with Ap?

[SilentOne]

47 minutes ago, KzE said:

Just disable player info like in JP/TW version.

and get citadel pt full of scrubs who aren't even able to handle tower of memory mechanic. rip

[SilentOne]

7 minutes ago, KzE said:

Because 800Ap can handle? Or knowledge about mechanics is tied with Ap?

until they make some 'knowledge meter', stats are the only measureable element from which you can at least guess if the guy is exped or not (balanced stats, ss setup)

[KzE]

10 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

until they make some 'knowledge meter', stats are the only measureable element from which you can at least guess if the guy is exped or not (balanced stats, ss setup)

You can still link your number of runs. I have 630ap with 0 tomb or ebondrake runs. Have like 3 masts 6man run, 0 4man, 2 nexus 6man, 0 4man, etc. So if ppl think AP is something, they are wrong.

[SilentOne]

3 minutes ago, KzE said:

You can still link your number of runs. I have 630ap with 0 tomb or ebondrake runs. Have like 3 masts 6man run, 0 4man, 2 nexus 6man, 0 4man, etc. So if ppl think AP is somethink, they are wrong.

there are still more ppl with higher AP who knows what's going on than ppl with lower AP who knows what's going on.

If you could invite to your tomb party 1 totally random man and there would be 2 quiet guys, one with 550AP and one with 650AP, would you invite the lower one?

[Youmukon]

Having minimum AP requirements enforced by us wouldn't really solve much. Actually other titles enforcing minimum iLvl to participate in dungeons already proved that this feature was ineffective when it comes to changing the mind-set of the Community.

 

Developers have to put the bar low (after all we are talking about minimum requirements) to avoid excluding too many players. A minimum requirement means that a well-organized party with skilled players would be able to clear the content as long as they meet requirements. Obviously when you are in a pick-up group not everyone is knowledgeable about the mechanics, not everyone is skilled. Add the latency and so on, there are high chances for a party of 4/6 players having just the minimum required gear to fail the dungeon.

 

This inevitably lead to the Community raising the bar themselves (exactly like how the situation is in-game right now) and asking for higher requirements. Developer-enforced restrictions then become pointless. What good does it do to set a 400AP minimum for a dungeon if everyone is going to ask for 550+? At best it filters out extremely poorly geared players and/or some trolls. But that's about it and this isn't what the Community is mostly complaining about.

 

Those who played TERA while MCHM was the hardest dungeon (~May 2013) know that no party whatsoever would recruit someone with just the minimum iLvl needed (147). Almost all parties looked at 158+, (or 155 when extremely desperate to find someone) 147 was a guaranteed instant kick. This is just one example between many.

 

I still do agree however that it would be beneficial for everyone to actually have a gear score which would be calculated according to more than just AP (taking accuracy and critical damage/chance in consideration etc.). That would at least give players a more accurate benchmark on how well geared they are. However this will certainly not make the Community stop asking for high requirements even when not necessary. There's just no technical way to fix that.

[KzE]

18 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

there are still more ppl with higher AP who knows what's going on than ppl with lower AP who knows what's going on.

If you could invite to your tomb party 1 totally random man and there would be 2 quiet guys, one with 550AP and one with 650AP, would you invite the lower one?

If there is one spot and i have no other information, i choose 650ap. But if i open a tomb room and a 550ap join to my 600ap team, i wont kick him to get a 600ap dude. I saw this stupid kickfest in tera online, where ppl rolled matchmaking in instance and chainkicked the joiners till the perfect one. There were parties, who kicked like 30-40 guys in a single run.

[SilentOne]

22 minutes ago, Youmukon said:

 However this will certainly not make the Community stop asking for high requirements even when not necessary. There's just no technical way to fix that.

That's it. Solution of this AP thingy is 100% upon the community. And that bring us to the very first solution: create your own pt with your rules. (or just hit the LFP button, im doing it for all dungs (6man mode) except tomb/citadel/mandate and 95% of them are smooth hm8 average runs)

 

[ancillary]

Two problems that I see:

 

1. Not every group leader follows the requirement to the letter. I have pugged many Tomb4 well below the advertised 680+ or 700+, nothing happened and we still ran through. Note that I am around 650ish.

 

2. As a group leader, I find that advertising low requirement sometimes will scare people away. This is all anecdotes, but I always find it very hard to find people when I ask only for 500+ for Gloom4 (imo it's more than enough). But if I advertise 600+ people rush in like crazy.

[Lunakitty]

The AP requirement is only a safety blanket for majority people. AP isn't everything since there are cases where people with 200 AP less steal aggro from that high AP player. It depends on crit, critical damage and also ping, not to mention some people just are incapable of doing more than LMB RMB spam or can't even do more than LMB every 5 seconds. It's all up to players, make a room that requires less AP than what people usually require or is there a reason why people cannot do that?

[desperado19]

Actually have half technical way to do dungeons..doesnt matter how much ap you have in most dungeons...like Ashura if you dont have belt which resist at ashura brand.Nope.You cant go for him.Already most people only weapons upgraded and forgot to upgrade their acs..so its good points dungeons to be restricted from acss

 

P.P.Sorry for such bad English skills

[Ilka]

Well I am going to be honest, sometimes I like to join to random groups, sometimes is fun because is hard and fun, sometimes is annoying because someone dont understand the mechs no matter how many times you explain it, I am a 700+ap sin, and sometimes i like to play with others 700+ or at least 650+, because are super faster runs, I have nothing against the 600- but I suffered to be here and I want more, was not an easy road so I want to enjoy, I am sorry call it being Elitist or whatever you want but yes, sometimes I am because I can and I am not doing anything bad to others

[Evitagen3]

1 hour ago, KzE said:

You can still link your number of runs. I have 630ap with 0 tomb or ebondrake runs. Have like 3 masts 6man run, 0 4man, 2 nexus 6man, 0 4man, etc. So if ppl think AP is something, they are wrong.

100% Agree 

[FlockUndead]

6 minutes ago, Evitagen3 said:

100% Agree 

100% Agree to your agreement. Got a destroyer on 680ap, a sin on 585, a warlock on 623 and haven't dont 1 single high end dungeon on 4 man. Actually, i were almost never the person which failed at the mechanic, we also never wiped because of dmg lack, this proves, most cry babys want more ap so they can actually skip phases because they dont really know the mechanics and it really looks like this, also , all those high ap requirements are annoying because why do u need 700+ for necropolis 6man ? LOL!? also i got kicked out of the group with 599 ap if the requirement was 600 ap, some people just want to watch the world burn