Question: Classes and their purposes

[GLoRToR]

I have a Kung-Fu Master, an Assassin, a Force Master and a Warlock. Leveling a Blade Master.

I feel that WL and FM do much better in pve than KM and AS, while those two seem to be top of the line in pvp. I'm not hardcore at this game, still trying to learn so this is just my initial experiences: KM isn't the best at doing damage but it's really hard to kill if you bring your a-game. AS feels kinda squishy but it does a lot of damage. Both WL and FM just feel infinitely more effective in pve than those two. Warlock is especially braindead with its numerous disables, iframes and even a minion. Am I missing anything? Where's BM at?
 

I'm trying to figure out which one of those I should use for farming and which will be solely for pvp / arena. Those that I'll pvp with I assume I will not need to spend all the gold and time on upgrading the items of, since pvp is balanced out?

 

Just trying to make sense of the game, please fill me in on these five classes if you can!

[spongemike]

FM is currently the overall best class to play if like PvE and PvP.

In PvE FM does awesome DPS and also you have skills that not only save yourself but your group (think of yeti). Your DV also protect anyone in the bubble from range attacks. Ice armour protect you from all incoming attack and heals you. Also your rotation is super easy to learn. I lterally close my eyes when I do blackram now. is that easy. Also in PvP you aren't too bad. I mean sure some class can beat you but when you want to both PvE and PvP I pick FM anyway since it does awesome in PvE and not bad in PvP.

 

Warlock got awesome bust damage but after that 10 to 15secosn your dps suck balls. Literally you went from SS4 Guko back to like regular Guko. Also you need crt a ton of crt to even do great dps. Other than soulburn you bring nothing to the group when compare to FM. In fact your block is pretty much useless. you have no skills that will save your life.

 

KFM is a strong class if you play it well. Learning curve is hard and one mistake and it could mean the whole group will wipe (because as a KFM you are a tank). Knowing boss fights and your own skills/combos have to have 2nd nature like breathing air if you want to be good at KFM. Is a fun class but I quit mine after I reach 47. Is too stressful and require great reflix. I can't relax when playing KFM.

 

So if you ask me from my experience (I also made a post in the player support which class I like best)

 

1.FM

2.BM

3.Summoner

4.Destroyer

5.Warlock

6.KFM

7.Sin

[Duh Harro]

I'm not sure why you rate Sin last. It just bugs me.

Right now, in term of single target dps (boss fight) Sin dps is very close to FM dps, which makes Sin 2nd in term of dps. Plus, their stealth make it easier for them to solo dungeon. Party utility ? They have a freaking crit buff, which gives you more crit chance and crit dmg. You need some protection ? They have Smoke screen that block projectiles like DV. HM woodblock for pt invincibility. Party stealth for 10s if you want to skip mob. And Lotus of escape coming later on which you can use to tele your pt.

For your info, KFM and BM are capable of tanking, while their dps might not shine, other classes have supporting skills. Summ and FM support are more about survivability (Heal zone, anti-projectile, pt invincibility skill) While the rest have more of damage supporting skill ( Free dmg time when grabbing with BD or Dest, Dmg buff by sin, SB by WL)

To answer another question. It depends on where you're farming and what you enjoy. For example, in SSP, ranged has superiority compared to melee, but if we talk about solo farming, Sin is the best hand down (I solo'd more than 200 time Bright Stone back in Pohara patch and able to solo any other dungeon beside Pohara and Dokumo) but since later patch came out, Sin can't solo farming anymore

[Shiune]

1 hour ago, spongemike said:

 

1.FM

2.BM

3.Summoner

4.Destroyer

5.Warlock

6.KFM

7.Sin

That's the most stupid chart I saw in my whole life. 

 

FM = best DPS class with the easiest double stun/kd in the game. 

Also supports very well with frost sheath and divine vail. 

 

SIN = 2nd best DPS class which can also spec on double kd, double stun and double daze (so very good CC abilitys). 

Also gives a very good DPS buff every 1min 30seconds.

Also can let you skip trashmobs.

Can support you with smokescreen (projectile defense) and party protection (similar to summoners dandelion). 

 

Summoner = good dps class. 

Can heal you, play offtank with cat and double stun/double dazr easily (have its trouble with double kd but still possible). 

Also can give you smoke projectile resistance and stealth protection with dandelion. 

 

Destroyer = mediocre dps (high burst with fury).

One, if not the best CC class. 

Can grab the boss and defend you while you are at near death state with shielding you in chi recovery mode. 

 

BD = mediocre dps. 

Has double stun/kd. 

Can also grab the boss but fcks up its hitbox for melees (god I hate that grab). 

Not really much support skills. 

 

BM = defensive tank class. 

Can double kd/daze (but seem to have problems with stuns). 

As written already it tanks the boss to make him stand still most of the time. 

Also gives you party protection with HM block (the best protection in the game). 

 

KFM = offensive tank class. 

Can double kd/daze and stun. 

Same tank ability as BM. 

Gives you the same dps buff as assassins (therefore offensive tank). 

 

Warlock = strong burst but mediocre dps overall. 

Can double stun/kd. 

Supports the group with the best dps buff in the game (but it has a high CD compared to kfms/assassins buff). 

 

So chart in usefulness:

 

1. FM 

2. SIN

3. KFM/BM (a tanked boss is a good boss) 

4. summoner

5. warlock 

6. destroyer/BD

 

[Dray0s]

10 minutes ago, Shiune said:

That's the most stupid chart I saw in my whole life. 

 

FM = best DPS class with the easiest double stun/kd in the game. 

Also supports very well with frost sheath and divine vail. 

 

SIN = 2nd best DPS class which can also spec on double kd, double stun and double daze (so very good CC abilitys). 

Also gives a very good DPS buff every 1min 30seconds.

Also can let you skip trashmobs.

Can support you with smokescreen (projectile defense) and party protection (similar to summoners dandelion). 

 

Summoner = good dps class. 

Can heal you, play offtank with cat and double stun/double dazr easily (have its trouble with double kd but still possible). 

Also can give you smoke projectile resistance and stealth protection with dandelion. 

 

Destroyer = mediocre dps (high burst with fury).

One, if not the best CC class. 

Can grab the boss and defend you while you are at near death state with shielding you in chi recovery mode. 

 

BD = mediocre dps. 

Has double stun/kd. 

Can also grab the boss but fcks up its hitbox for melees (god I hate that grab). 

Not really much support skills. 

 

BM = defensive tank class. 

Can double kd/daze (but seem to have problems with stuns). 

As written already it tanks the boss to make him stand still most of the time. 

Also gives you party protection with HM block (the best protection in the game). 

 

KFM = offensive tank class. 

Can double kd/daze and stun. 

Same tank ability as BM. 

Gives you the same dps buff as assassins (therefore offensive tank). 

 

Warlock = strong burst but mediocre dps overall. 

Can double stun/kd. 

Supports the group with the best dps buff in the game (but it has a high CD compared to kfms/assassins buff). 

 

So chart in usefulness:

 

1. FM 

2. SIN

3. KFM/BM (a tanked boss is a good boss) 

4. summoner

5. warlock 

6. destroyer/BD

 

I'm confused to ur chart tbh.

 

As far as I can tell, 99% of players in Groups are demanding FM/WL/Summoner.. yet u write them beneath sin, which is Possibly one of the lowest demanded classes in groups, u equal BD and Destroyer Even tho a group would take a Destroyer over a BD For 99% of Situations, due to the bug of BDs grip causing Melee players having trouble targeting the monster during the BDs grip.

 

you right a list with Warlock being almost the lowest required yet ignore the factor that NEITHER FM or Sin can reached their DPS Potiental without the WLs buff, you put KFM/BM below those 2 top DPSers yet neither of those two DPSers could Possibly reach their DPS potiental When continuously forced into Defenseive Positions,  "Chart of usefulness" no u've simply written a Chart of DPS Capability.

 

KFM/BM is a Requirement, end of the day, Summoner pet would only be fine for so long, FM/Sin couldn't manage their DPS without the boss Aggro'd, A FM continuously kiting bosses around its Defense would Lower a Sins DPS In itself, No class can come to their DPS Potientals as things are actually balanced around the WLS buff, which means the current balance REQUIRES a WL to be present.

 

in Current Dungeons Melee offer very little in comparison to Ranged, end of the day Sin can have any height of DPS Potiental going, doesn't mean it can manage that in a group situation.. and It doesn't mean it Doesn't require a WL to be there to give it that potiental.

 

Chart of Usefulness

 

- KFM/BM - a Dead DPS is 0 DPS no matter what it was achieving.

 

FM - a Top DPS CLass, its group support, even tho NOT REQUIRED, can Carry BAD PLAYERS, therefore very Pug friendly as if ur skilled you can Use that to making a Bad player survive.

 

- WL, no point count ur DPS Potiental if u cannot physically reach it Without this Classes buff, not to mention being 4th highest DPS Potiental, In Group situations Pushs it ALOT higher up on the scaling tree cause it can continuously spam with very little backlash.

 

- Summoner Healing is Vital If ur not a Expert, petal Storm has a HUGE need in Sogans and Can bypass ALOT of problems, this class IS THE TOP DPS IN KR SERVERS, it is able to output all its Damage with 0 Aggro, its Able to Heal continuously, Offers back up tank if your tank Needs to Restore his Chi in bad Moments Petal storm among More counter MANY problems and offer excellent Support to the group.

 

- Assassin, Providing its GOOD at its class, 2nd highest DPS even if impacted by the Melee disadvantage, offers DPS buffs.

 

- Destroyer - best Grab, Incredible burst on Demand.

 

- BD, has very few Excels, good DPS but doesn't offer much else.

 

you fail to see the bigger picture, lemme through a Example in here.

 

Right.

 

KFM/BM - nothing can fulfil the role LIKE this class, therefore isn't Replacable outside of the players Personal Skill at these classes.

 

Assassin - U CAN REPLACE WITH A SECOND FM, there is Litterally 0 Reason to take a Assassin over a Second FM, they're "top DPS" as NA/EU Claim, their Support doubled would noyl carry a group further, and it doesn't cause any harm between the two to take as two, the only problem being 1 can seriously mess up a seconds DPS if they don't bother to communicate.

 

Warlock - buffs arnt Replaceable, Is Balanced around being within ur group and Provides good DPS cant really be Replaced by anything else in the current Class pool.

 

Summoner - Nothing replaces it.

 

BD - Everything Replaces it.

 

Destroyer - Isnt really a Requirmeent, Grabs nice though.

 

Usefulness is the Classes contribution, if what a class offers is NOT Replaceable, then it is MORE USeful because u REQUIRE a Specific class to provide a Certain Attribute towards the teams effort, Assasin is not the 2nd Most useful because it is very easily replaced, Second FM Second Summoner Second WL could all give you the exact same Result, with ADDED benefit, this would be like a Premade taking BOTH a KFM/BM reguardless of the factor they'd not only bring the groups DPS Total down but also Nullify one anothers Capabilty, WLs/FMs/Summoners can ALL be Duplicated and Still provide 0 Issue.

 

Usefulness will always go in three tiers.

 

Tank - Requirement, Restricted to specific Classes.

 

Support - They exist for a reason, Ur DPS classes REQUIRE THEM.

 

DPS - Anything from, this pool adds the same result, your a DPS, take whatever is Competing in the tier 1 section, and Just take Multiple of the same class.

 

[GLoRToR]

Please let's refrain from namecalling and resort to the widely accepted truth that people's views may differ.

I created this topic to help newbies like myself, not to kill each other over mere observations.

Thank you.

[Shadovvv]

Supposedly in the current meta the damage gap is relatively small, as reported in one of KR's DPS tier lists being a 20% difference from top and bottom place. Keep in mind we still don't have Legendary Soul Shields or Accessories, and the weapon only evolves to Stage 3 at the moment.

 

Now I cannot speak for PvP experience but all the contributions of each class are as follows:

• Force Master:
  • Damage
  • Three hit party protection via Frost Sheath
  • Anti-projectile field via Divine Viel
  • Can pull near dead party mates within 8 meters via Phantom Grip (although I never see them use it)
• Summoner:
  • Damage
  • Sub-tank (Cat isn't a permanent holder)
  • Healing
  • Anti-projectile field + chi recovering protection field via Petal Storm
  • One hit and stealth party protection via Enhanced Seed Shroud/Dandelion
  • Grab
• Warlock:
  • Damage
  • Soulburn
  • I believe the Thrall can be spec'd to have sub-tanking abilities?
• Kung Fu Master:
  • Tank
  • Choice of:
    • Grab (although a KFM can grab air targets but no one does knockups to begin with)
    • Fighting Spirit (critical damage, critical chance, and lifedrain)
  • Additional critical damage buff
• Blade Master:
  • Tank
  • Three hit party protection that doesn't immobilize party via Winged Protector (Hongmoon Block)
• Destroyer:
  • Damage
  • Grab
  • Rescue near dead party mates and shield chi recovering party mates.
  • Some party damage reduction buffs.
• Blade Dancer:
  • Grab
  • One hit party protection via Hongmoon Maelstrom.
• Soul Fighter:
  • Healing (that's literally all they can do from what I'm told, but we don't have Soul Fighter yet so I could be mistaken to a degree)
• Assassin:
  • Damage
  • Sub-tank
  • Solo and group stealth, giving them the best solo dungeon capacity.
  • Smokescreen choice of:
    • Anti-projectile field.
    • Group stealth past mobs
  • Two hit and stealth party protection via Decoy (default one, Hongmoon two)
  • Lotus of Escape choice of:
    • Pulls all dead, near dead, or chi recovering party members within 100 meters to Lotus of Escape's mark.
    • Stealth Assassin and pulls all living party members to the within 8 meters of Lotus of Rescue's mark directly to the Assassin, stealthing them, giving 100% movement speed bonus to everyone, and iframing party members (useful for group stealth past mobs).
    • Fighting Spirit
  • Grab via Highwire (albeit inferior to other classes)

Honestly I see every class useful in some way depending on the situation, whether it requires fighting or the Vipercap marathon. The only class that isn't so useful are the players that weigh down their party in any form.

3 hours ago, GLoRToR said:

AS feels kinda squishy

This is only true if you get hit. Shadow Dash/Sidestep Left, Shunpo/Sidestep Right, Backstep, and Lotus Fury move us around quickly and all of them except Shadow Dash/Sidestep Left and Shunpo spec have long iframe durations. At the same time we can still keep attacking out of all of them. Hongmoon 2 spec'd with 2 second resist is godsend in almost any situation involving a counterable attack and where Stealth Protection isn't necessary.

1 hour ago, Dray0s said:

As far as I can tell, 99% of players in Groups are demanding FM/Summoner.. yet u write them beneath sin, which is Possibly one of the lowest demanded classes in groups

Assassins actually have a very big contributing skillset as the offensive jack-of-all-trades, and not simply a "hurr durr damage class" that people have their dead mindset on. They have tools that a Force Master and Summoner have, with high damage, anti-projectile field, downed party pull being far more superior than Force Master's Phantom Grip (albeit not taken much against bosses), and their Stealth Protection being more effective than Summoner's Enhanced Dandelion. Assassin also have Fighting Spirit and group stealth, neither of which Force Masters or Summoners are capable of performing. In Vipercap event an Assassin contributes more with group stealth and a party speed buff, while Force Master contributes with nothing and Summoners only have a group stealth that requires getting hit. The only thing Assassins are insufficient at is healing, which isn't so much relevant when a party knows how to survive, and to a slightly lesser extent grabbing.

 

Also, the ranged classes are not completely infallible. The mistakes of a Force Master and Summoner can actually cause their party to wipe, the best example being their constant boss kiting and Summoner cat positioning Asura's fire swords right on the boss, and later boss mechanics in Sundered Nexus (next dungeon from now) and almost every dungeon following that.

[Shadzar]

3 hours ago, GLoRToR said:

Just trying to make sense of the game, please fill me in on these five classes if you can!

In a REAL RPG each class has a skill that is needed by the others. In BnS everything can mostly be done solo'd or even with a group of all the same class. The classes only exist to give more pretty animation for eye candy, and to make leveling your equipment harder as more classes are created, more weapons drop which make it harder to get your class specific weapon for upgrading.

 

Don't try to make sense beyond that. There is no healer class because healing is around every corner because you get about 300 healing potions per day as well as 200 dumplings to infinitely heal you. The assassin isnt even an assassin because it can't do like the NPC assassins in Zaiwei and insta-kill you with one attack.

 

The best thing to do would be check a class vs ping guide to see what you will be able to do and whether the game will respond quick enough for you to be able to play it effectively.

 

So don't try to make sense of the game because it doesn't make sense. If you like just fighting and killing things, enjoy BnS, if you like senseless grinding enjoy BnS, if you like the story... wait 3 months until it continues, then enjoy BnS until it ends. If you like collecting outfits, then open your wallet with $40 per month to buy 2 for a single character.

[Shiune]

1 hour ago, Dray0s said:

I'm confused to ur chart tbh.

 

As far as I can tell, 99% of players in Groups are demanding FM/WL/Summoner.. yet u write them beneath sin, which is Possibly one of the lowest demanded classes in groups, u equal BD and Destroyer Even tho a group would take a Destroyer over a BD For 99% of Situations, due to the bug of BDs grip causing Melee players having trouble targeting the monster during the BDs grip.

 

you right a list with Warlock being almost the lowest required yet ignore the factor that NEITHER FM or Sin can reached their DPS Potiental without the WLs buff, you put KFM/BM below those 2 top DPSers yet neither of those two DPSers could Possibly reach their DPS potiental When continuously forced into Defenseive Positions,  "Chart of usefulness" no u've simply written a Chart of DPS Capability.

 

KFM/BM is a Requirement, end of the day, Summoner pet would only be fine for so long, FM/Sin couldn't manage their DPS without the boss Aggro'd, A FM continuously kiting bosses around its Defense would Lower a Sins DPS In itself, No class can come to their DPS Potientals as things are actually balanced around the WLS buff, which means the current balance REQUIRES a WL to be present.

 

in Current Dungeons Melee offer very little in comparison to Ranged, end of the day Sin can have any height of DPS Potiental going, doesn't mean it can manage that in a group situation.. and It doesn't mean it Doesn't require a WL to be there to give it that potiental.

 

Chart of Usefulness

 

- KFM/BM - a Dead DPS is 0 DPS no matter what it was achieving.

 

FM - a Top DPS CLass, its group support, even tho NOT REQUIRED, can Carry BAD PLAYERS, therefore very Pug friendly as if ur skilled you can Use that to making a Bad player survive.

 

- WL, no point count ur DPS Potiental if u cannot physically reach it Without this Classes buff, not to mention being 4th highest DPS Potiental, In Group situations Pushs it ALOT higher up on the scaling tree cause it can continuously spam with very little backlash.

 

- Summoner Healing is Vital If ur not a Expert, petal Storm has a HUGE need in Sogans and Can bypass ALOT of problems, this class IS THE TOP DPS IN KR SERVERS, it is able to output all its Damage with 0 Aggro, its Able to Heal continuously, Offers back up tank if your tank Needs to Restore his Chi in bad Moments Petal storm among More counter MANY problems and offer excellent Support to the group.

 

- Assassin, Providing its GOOD at its class, 2nd highest DPS even if impacted by the Melee disadvantage, offers DPS buffs.

 

- Destroyer - best Grab, Incredible burst on Demand.

 

- BD, has very few Excels, good DPS but doesn't offer much else.

 

you fail to see the bigger picture, lemme through a Example in here.

 

Right.

 

KFM/BM - nothing can fulfil the role LIKE this class, therefore isn't Replacable outside of the players Personal Skill at these classes.

 

Assassin - U CAN REPLACE WITH A SECOND FM, there is Litterally 0 Reason to take a Assassin over a Second FM, they're "top DPS" as NA/EU Claim, their Support doubled would noyl carry a group further, and it doesn't cause any harm between the two to take as two, the only problem being 1 can seriously mess up a seconds DPS if they don't bother to communicate.

 

Warlock - buffs arnt Replaceable, Is Balanced around being within ur group and Provides good DPS cant really be Replaced by anything else in the current Class pool.

 

Summoner - Nothing replaces it.

 

BD - Everything Replaces it.

 

Destroyer - Isnt really a Requirmeent, Grabs nice though.

 

Usefulness is the Classes contribution, if what a class offers is NOT Replaceable, then it is MORE USeful because u REQUIRE a Specific class to provide a Certain Attribute towards the teams effort, Assasin is not the 2nd Most useful because it is very easily replaced, Second FM Second Summoner Second WL could all give you the exact same Result, with ADDED benefit, this would be like a Premade taking BOTH a KFM/BM reguardless of the factor they'd not only bring the groups DPS Total down but also Nullify one anothers Capabilty, WLs/FMs/Summoners can ALL be Duplicated and Still provide 0 Issue.

 

Usefulness will always go in three tiers.

 

Tank - Requirement, Restricted to specific Classes.

 

Support - They exist for a reason, Ur DPS classes REQUIRE THEM.

 

DPS - Anything from, this pool adds the same result, your a DPS, take whatever is Competing in the tier 1 section, and Just take Multiple of the same class.

 

For Asura 4man actually no one wants a summoner because it's the class which messes up the most when it comes to CCs (from my experience) - also it's healing, party protection and cat taunt is absolutely not needed there (other than for yeti for example) and it's actually more of a burden. 

 

SIN is actualy even one of the most wanted class for Asura 4man because of several reasons (sin can solo 1 row before first boss, reliable CCs, mobs skipping, fighting spirit and high dps). 

 

You wanna know why I listed warlock so bad? 

Because it gives you 1 buff per boss (because in most boss fights you won't get 2)  while a sin/kfm gives you 2 (or even 3 if you have both in your group) in the same time. 

The buff is damn great no doubt (especially WITH fighting spirt stacked) but in the end you still have a WL with you which has a pretty average dps compared to other classes. 

A WL is a nice-to-have but it's basically just there to buff you. 

Also at asura it can happen pretty commonly that you can't even make use of the buff because you have to take poison stacks or he is making the fire phase. 

 

Don't get me wrong I love to have a WL in my group and see my numbers go skyrocket but it's not as useful as you think it is believe me. 

 

 

Also no, you can't replace an assassin for a FM as long as you don't have any KFM in your team - fighting spirit is nearly a must in every 4man party if you want to make fast runs. 

 

Also i don't get why no one replaces summoners?

Summoners are absolutely not needed in Asura - the opposite is the case: nearly every class can replace a summoner there. 

 

A perfect setup (fastest runs) for asura would be:

 

KFM, FM, FM, SIN (fighting spirit EVERY MINUTE). 

 

Wanna know why?

1. 3 fighting spirits in 3 minutes vs 1 soulburn from WL. 

2. Absolutely reliable CCs

3. 3 top dps classes + the better tank (in terms of dps - not defense) 

4. Because of the assassin you can skip the trash in no time and 3 ppl can take 1 row while the SIN solos the other one. 

 

Where do you see room for a summoner order WL in there? Ofc there would be room for them - but the run would be slower for sure. 

 

Now look at my chart again and check the first 3 classes ;) 

 

You are saying a class can't be replaced if the other class can't do the same? 

Nope a class can be easily replaced IF it doesn't do the same but does smth else MUCH better. 

 

Oh and the reasons I equalled BD and destroyer is that BD does slightly more dps while destroyers having the better grab. 

[882184_1452550488]

i rather have a warlock,fm,des in my group then any sins in the world imo.. ( im kfm ) so you can talk how much good they are sins and blabla.. they are not more needed then any other class in 4man... 

[meep94]

47 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Blade Dancer:

Grab

One hit party protection via Hongmoon Maelstrom.

BD party protection is 3 seconds for infinite hits + 100% movement speed :P . The oroblem with the grap position can be worked around by just doing a step towards the enemy location while grabbing it, so it stays in the place where it was on the ground.

Also many people underestimate BDs. With the right spec and proper animation-cancelling (and not just buttonsmashing) they are almost on par with assasin and FM (against a not moving target of course). It's highly ping related though...   When I compare my gameplay while traveling with around 80-90ms ping and at home with 15-20ms I literally do flatout half of my dps potential.

[882184_1452550488]

Just now, Shiune said:

If you prefer a destroyer over an assassin you can't be helped anyway but if it's your preference I won't try to convince you anyway lol. 

 

I just wrote down how it looks like currently - if you can't deal with it and have a different opinion it still won't change the things I wrote above UNLESS you proof me how and why. 

 

In the end every class will contribute something - but some classes will contribute either more or something better. 

You can either choose to run fast without any defensive support or slower with defensive support. 

And yeah you can also replace a WL instead of a SIN or FM but I'll guarantee you that you will clear it slower with this setup. 

i have no problem with the group im running with atm.. we have cleared everything we got the title from sura.. so we have the damage needed in the group + defensive that we need.. and we got our title with 550 group.. so i dont see why we should change our Wl / FM for a sin or destroyer for a sin, when we have already a good group..

[Shiune]

21 minutes ago, 882184_1452550488 said:

i rather have a warlock,fm,des in my group then any sins in the world imo.. ( im kfm ) so you can talk how much good they are sins and blabla.. they are not more needed then any other class in 4man... 

If you prefer a destroyer over an assassin you can't be helped anyway but if it's your preference I won't try to convince you anyway lol. 

 

I just wrote down how it looks like currently - if you can't deal with it and have a different opinion it still won't change the things I wrote above UNLESS you proof me how and why. 

 

In the end every class will contribute something - but some classes will contribute either more or something better. 

You can either choose to run fast without any defensive support or slower with defensive support. 

And yeah you can also replace a WL instead of a SIN or FM but I'll guarantee you that you will clear it slower with this setup. 

 

 

 

EDIT because the quoting system on the phone sucks:

@882184_1452550488

You got me wrong. 

You can clear it with any constellation and you can do the achievement with every class out there. 

I just wrote down the BEST and fastest setup available. 

[Kohashi]

whoooaaaa the kfm rate XD. no way dude. If you know your rotation.. kfm has a solid dps ability :P

[InstantDeath]

Nope Nope Nope Nope, sin is not 2nd best dps. FM>WL>Sum>BM>KFM>BD>Sin>Destro. This is my rating. Only good thing about a sin is smoke screen ( focus recovery & instant bee cast for summoner ), fighting spirit and cc.

[Yomachi]

15 minutes ago, meep94 said:

BD party protection is 3 seconds for infinite hits + 100% movement speed :P . The oroblem with the grap position can be worked around by just doing a step towards the enemy location while grabbing it, so it stays in the place where it was on the ground.

Also many people underestimate BDs. With the right spec and proper animation-cancelling (and not just buttonsmashing) they are almost on par with assasin and FM (against a not moving target of course). It's highly ping related though...   When I compare my gameplay while traveling with around 80-90ms ping and at home with 15-20ms I literally do flatout half of my dps potential.

Shhh don't tell them.. So maybe they'll nerf us and unintentionally make us OP xD

[882184_1452550488]

14 minutes ago, Shiune said:

You got me wrong. 

You can clear it with any constellation and you can do the achievement with every class out there. 

I just wrote down the BEST and fastest setup available. 

Still dont get it why you saying " the best and fastest " .. every run can be the fastest and the best.. maybe the best and fastest for you... we have tried with a sin instead of our des and i turned out to be a nightmare instead of " fast " run.. And this is the fastest way for me and my group and we will stick with it.. you can have fun with your x2 fighting spirit + warlock buff ah yeah forgot you dont want a wl cause they are low in damage ;) 

bring the player and not just the class

[Crimsonjrjr]

To be fair each point in this post has its own solid point but some come from people who have never levelled said class to max level.

 

I will be bias and say "BM > any class" :p 

[SilentOne]

i don't get why do ppl prefer destro grab over bd grab. Destro just stand there while bd give solid amount of damage, heal himself, refresh focus and eventually daze the enemy which can be handy too. And if a bd make 1 step forward while grabbing, the grabbed monster will stay at the very same spot as before grab, so it dont even get out of your aim.

[meep94]

11 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

i don't get why do ppl prefer destro grab over bd grab. Destro just stand there while bd give solid amount of damage, heal himself, refresh focus and eventually daze the enemy which can be handy too. And if a bd make 1 step forward while grabbing, the grabbed monster will stay at the very same spot as before grab, so it dont even get out of your aim.

Destro grab has a shorter cooldown, gives focus regen when hitting the enemy and gives you a critchance buff up to +50% while hitting and the destro gets a nice dps boost right after smashing the enemy on the ground at the end of the grab.

BD gives the focus regen and lowers the enemies defense while grabbed and he can still attack while grabbing.

 

in the end the dps of Destro and BD for themselves when they grab are kinda equal but destro got shorter cd and that crit bonus which does more than the mob defense reduction. In the future when BD gets the HM grab he will have the same critbuff too + def reduction + focus, still lobger cd though

[DomiSotto]

Hi folks, thank you for the thread, very interesting.

[Risaddex]

Lemme give u my exp with the chars then I have:

 

KFM

- easiest double stun (with only 1 skill) of the game;

- High number of Iframes (can take 6 ice from yeti, only BM can dodge all 8 with HM block i think)

- How the guy above said, its a tank class that make bosses/world bosses easier (hello fms that run around *cricket*ing the melee mates :P);

- Driven buff (10 %critical dmg for the party, with searing palm, 99% of the time triggered if u run fire build);

- Tremor tier 2/3 also give 20% crit dmg for10s to party members on range (45s cd);

- Fighting spirit can both give u 100% crit dmg and main dps skill reset each 2s or give all entire party 40% crit and 50% crit dmg for 10s, both handy.

 

FM

-High DPS class, with good support skills;

-Can pull party members when recovering the chi and reduce CD of chicovery;

-Have Ice flower/shealth that can save ur party im some situations (makes yura's 2nd nightmare easy and u can save ur dummy party on yeti/grants more dps)

-Good sustain with frost F skill and Ice tab/divine veil.

 

SIN

- High DPS class, handy support skills too, how said above, best solo class, followed by summoner;

- Stealth for party is very useful, can also procet from projectiles and give party stun immunity;

- Can teleport near death party member with lotus, or give the party 40%crit and 50% crit dmg for 10s with Fighting spirit.

-Can keep 5 stack of bleed all the time with the main DPS rotation. (some people ll question that, but bleed its a MUST HAVE  at end game bosses, try a yeti with a non bleed party and u ll have some troubles if the party dont have exp).. Minou with the 45 cap was a good exemple of why u should keep always 5 bleed.

 

DES (still leveling)

 

-Good support skills (stone procetion is awesome in a boss fight), can rescue too;

-Good DPS, and 100%crit/30%¨burst buff is strong (45s cd/ 6s duration);

-Can keep 5 stack of bleed all the time with the main DPS rotation.

-25% reduced dmg 3 atks for party with stone shield

-High number of CC

-Grab, best CC also give 20% focus and critical chance for everyone attacking the target.

 

 

[OniOfTheSword]

6 hours ago, GLoRToR said:

I have a Kung-Fu Master, an Assassin, a Force Master and a Warlock. Leveling a Blade Master.

I feel that WL and FM do much better in pve than KM and AS, while those two seem to be top of the line in pvp. I'm not hardcore at this game, still trying to learn so this is just my initial experiences: KM isn't the best at doing damage but it's really hard to kill if you bring your a-game. AS feels kinda squishy but it does a lot of damage. Both WL and FM just feel infinitely more effective in pve than those two. Warlock is especially braindead with its numerous disables, iframes and even a minion. Am I missing anything? Where's BM at?

I won't speak for all classes since I haven't played them to max/level gear. But as far as BM is concerned(pretty much the only class I focus on in game), here's my opinion of it(for PvE):

 

BM will be a hard to play class at lower levels due to a lack of skill points. Earlier, when 45 was the level cap, we'd get 6 skill points at 45 HM1, and that's where BM would become effective. But currently, we have to go to 50 HM1 to get the max out of it.

 

BMs also didn't have the buffed fire build previously, and was considered a "burst" class in lightning build. Lightning build would put us out of draw stance quite frequently, and would need us to use up our i-frames to get back in it after regaining focus(since lightning draw has a long cooldown). With fire build buffed now, we can stay in draw stance much longer, do consistently high damage using flicker and dragontongue, and also manage our i-frames much better.

 

We have defensive utility as good as, if not better than FM. HM block is a 3 hit protection against any type of attack, but it allows you to freely dps instead of being frozen in place. Now that I'm able to stay in draw stance much longer with fire build, in battles like Asura/Iruga, I can save my Blade call for the time they use projectiles (in emergency situations where the FM didn't make it back to the dragonblood in time, or if a party member is stuck without a shield at Iruga). During blade call, BM can use Warding spirit, which gives the same projectile protection as Divine veil, and recovers HP for each resist(again, same as divine veil). The only drawback is that it's on a 1 minute CD, so we can't use it as often as FM. Not sure if Petal storm(Summoner ranged protection) or Smoke screen(Sin ranged protection) recovers hp.

 

As far as CCs go, BMs can:

- spec for double daze with Lunar slash(tab) and either Shoulder charge(C when not in blade call) or Lightning rod (C in blade call).

- spec for double knockdown with Anklebiter (3 in basic stance)/Boot (X in basic stance)/Soaring falcon (Z in basic stance)

- spec for double stun with Rush (2 in basic stance) and Boot (X in basic stance). This isn't preferred though, since it's better to spec into Multislash (2 in basic stance) for a very nice i-frame that can lead into cyclone.

**In the future, when we get our HM Z(Soaring falcon), we have a lot more options for double CC in PvE since the Z can be specced for Stun or Daze, in addition to the knockdown we have now.

 

Couple of nice things about fire build:

 - Allows us to stay in draw stance longer(I would say around 95% of the time now), giving BMs a permanent 5% boost to crit, 20% boost to cdmg, and 20% boost to evasion.

- Dragontongue can be spammed without cooldown during grabs, and each hit does upwards of 15k damage with decent gear. During the 6 second grab, I'm able to hit for upwards of 120k in 6 seconds.

 

Hope that helps with your question about BMs ^^

 

Edit:

Just felt like adding to this:

21 minutes ago, Risaddex said:

Lemme give u my exp with the chars then I have:

 

KFM

- High number of Iframes (can take 6 ice from yeti, only BM can dodge all 8 with HM block i think)

BMs can dodge all 8 without HM block starting off in draw stance using:

E > Q > E > 2 (multislash) > Cyclone > SS > 3 > E

This is what I generally do, and I use HM block after.

 

 

[Risaddex]

45 minutes ago, OniOfTheSword said:

BMs can dodge all 8 without HM block starting off in draw stance using:

E > Q > E > 2 (multislash) > Cyclone > SS > 3 > E

This is what I generally do, and I use HM block after.

Ty for info.

 

I forgot BM dont have CD on E while in draw instance. :P

 

 

[spongemike]

7 hours ago, Duh Harro said:

I'm not sure why you rate Sin last. It just bugs me.

Right now, in term of single target dps (boss fight) Sin dps is very close to FM dps, which makes Sin 2nd in term of dps. Plus, their stealth make it easier for them to solo dungeon. Party utility ? They have a freaking crit buff, which gives you more crit chance and crit dmg. You need some protection ? They have Smoke screen that block projectiles like DV. HM woodblock for pt invincibility. Party stealth for 10s if you want to skip mob. And Lotus of escape coming later on which you can use to tele your pt.

For your info, KFM and BM are capable of tanking, while their dps might not shine, other classes have supporting skills. Summ and FM support are more about survivability (Heal zone, anti-projectile, pt invincibility skill) While the rest have more of damage supporting skill ( Free dmg time when grabbing with BD or Dest, Dmg buff by sin, SB by WL)

To answer another question. It depends on where you're farming and what you enjoy. For example, in SSP, ranged has superiority compared to melee, but if we talk about solo farming, Sin is the best hand down (I solo'd more than 200 time Bright Stone back in Pohara patch and able to solo any other dungeon beside Pohara and Dokumo) but since later patch came out, Sin can't solo farming anymore

why do I rate Sin last. It very lag dependent. If you are say within 20ping then it can be good but otherwise your damage suffers. Also this game just lags every some of the best gaming rig out there and when your fps drops form 60 to 10 your rotation suffers a lot not to mention you might be in an AoE and die. Is not the easiest class to play and master and requires skills which I say 50% of the Sin or more I meet doesn't have that skill.

 

Yes in theory they have the highest dps but that's in theory. Assuming you don't have to dodge the boss AoE, he is standing still and you have close to no lag and your rotation is spot on. Mess up any of those and your dps suffer a lot. Also it seems in our version we generally don't like Sins. i guess some Sin does bad dps, some don't listen and just go in attack boss.

 

Range is in this game is easier I think and FM have a lot less stuff to worry about to do good dps.