Question: Classes and their purposes

[Risaddex]

13 minutes ago, spongemike said:

Range is in this game is easier I think and FM have a lot less stuff to worry about to do good dps

Sure, I have both classes and both have almost same ammount of worries.

 

when SIN need worry with keep 5stack of posion to improve dmg , refresh poison with time bomb +z and refresh lighint rod (4) all the time (stealth build).

 

FMs need worry with keep burn on the enemy, ofc burn dont have stacks so u can refresh it whenever u want by 5stacks of ember + impact (1) it also need cast dragonblaze (F) between the common rotation to increase fire dmg 10%.

 

But ofc FM can do all this from ranged position and sin need worry about stealth too and iframe/decoy boss aoE, so i can tell u SIN SUFFER AS HELL, in side of  FM.

 

*sorry for my bad english*

 

[Shadovvv]

17 minutes ago, spongemike said:

Range is in this game is easier I think and FM have a lot less stuff to worry about to do good dps.

Do your freaking job in Sundered Nexus or Be Ido instantly wipes everyone.

 

Ranged have it easier, yes, but they're not completely infallible.

[Tsuchiryu]

Ranged have it easier by nature of usually being up to 16m away from bosses, so avoiding certain AOEs can range from more trivial to a flat out non-issue. On the other hand, if THEY (often the FMs) have the aggro and are that far away, it's pretty much certain many bosses will use different attack patterns and chase after them, which is a terrible thing to happen with any melee around. It's time wasted chasing bosses that could instead move around a bit less if ranged stay closer... as in less than 8m of distance to mitigate the chasing around moments. Sure, that requires some extra skill from ranged to avoid AOEs and such, but it's ultimately better for everyone involved. Less time melees spend chasing bosses around, more time they spend DPSing/tanking and the occasional dodging/iframing, easier time all around.

 

So ranged still need to know to only their roles as melees do, but also when not to be so far away to prevent needless chasing bosses around by melees.

[Kohashi]

22 minutes ago, Tsuchiryu said:

Ranged have it easier by nature of usually being up to 16m away from bosses, so avoiding certain AOEs can range from more trivial to a flat out non-issue. On the other hand, if THEY (often the FMs) have the aggro and are that far away, it's pretty much certain many bosses will use different attack patterns and chase after them, which is a terrible thing to happen with any melee around. It's time wasted chasing bosses that could instead move around a bit less if ranged stay closer... as in less than 8m of distance to mitigate the chasing around moments. Sure, that requires some extra skill from ranged to avoid AOEs and such, but it's ultimately better for everyone involved. Less time melees spend chasing bosses around, more time they spend DPSing/tanking and the occasional dodging/iframing, easier time all around.

 

So ranged still need to know to only their roles as melees do, but also when not to be so far away to prevent needless chasing bosses around by melees.

Oh god... I hate when range classes run around and I'm melee and of course i cant get aggro back since i cant get steady attacks. sometimes i just sit there and flip my table :p

[Dray0s]

21 hours ago, Shiune said:

For Asura 4man actually no one wants a summoner because it's the class which messes up the most when it comes to CCs (from my experience) - also it's healing, party protection and cat taunt is absolutely not needed there (other than for yeti for example) and it's actually more of a burden. 

 

SIN is actualy even one of the most wanted class for Asura 4man because of several reasons (sin can solo 1 row before first boss, reliable CCs, mobs skipping, fighting spirit and high dps). 

 

You wanna know why I listed warlock so bad? 

Because it gives you 1 buff per boss (because in most boss fights you won't get 2)  while a sin/kfm gives you 2 (or even 3 if you have both in your group) in the same time. 

The buff is damn great no doubt (especially WITH fighting spirt stacked) but in the end you still have a WL with you which has a pretty average dps compared to other classes. 

A WL is a nice-to-have but it's basically just there to buff you. 

Also at asura it can happen pretty commonly that you can't even make use of the buff because you have to take poison stacks or he is making the fire phase. 

 

Don't get me wrong I love to have a WL in my group and see my numbers go skyrocket but it's not as useful as you think it is believe me. 

 

 

Also no, you can't replace an assassin for a FM as long as you don't have any KFM in your team - fighting spirit is nearly a must in every 4man party if you want to make fast runs. 

 

Also i don't get why no one replaces summoners?

Summoners are absolutely not needed in Asura - the opposite is the case: nearly every class can replace a summoner there. 

 

A perfect setup (fastest runs) for asura would be:

 

KFM, FM, FM, SIN (fighting spirit EVERY MINUTE). 

 

Wanna know why?

1. 3 fighting spirits in 3 minutes vs 1 soulburn from WL. 

2. Absolutely reliable CCs

3. 3 top dps classes + the better tank (in terms of dps - not defense) 

4. Because of the assassin you can skip the trash in no time and 3 ppl can take 1 row while the SIN solos the other one. 

 

Where do you see room for a summoner order WL in there? Ofc there would be room for them - but the run would be slower for sure. 

 

Now look at my chart again and check the first 3 classes ;) 

 

You are saying a class can't be replaced if the other class can't do the same? 

Nope a class can be easily replaced IF it doesn't do the same but does smth else MUCH better. 

 

Oh and the reasons I equalled BD and destroyer is that BD does slightly more dps while destroyers having the better grab. 

actually in 4man Asura, I've seen ALOT replace the Melee DPS with BD, because they can Spin out of the Slows to collect the things on the floor in the mechanics, so that sin would most likely be replaced by a BD For that alone, I've seem a lot run 3 man top then carrying a Alt BD For that purpose alone, if u actually look a the way the DPS Meters in KR are showing, Summoners are at the top, FMs are Second.

 

Summoners Petal Storm is good, saying a class is Unwanted due to its high ability to mess up, would actually agree with my statement.

 

Ranged = ANYONE CAN PLAY IT AT TOP DPS, Melee = Very few can.

 

any Melee with any sort of FPS / Ping issue, whjich on EU is huge, because cross Servers are in America, therefore ALOT Lag in the game, is worthless.

 

Any Melee without tons of Experience Within those dungeons are Basically worthless and Die very quickly in.

 

so basically as a Pug, u can either, Run with a absolute gamble, hope ur Sin Lives long enough to do as u think it should, or even remotely hit towards the classes DPS Potiental, which the majority of people cannot, Anti-cancelling in Cross Dungeons is a Strain on ALOT of Computers / ISP providers,

 

in this games Current State, with the current problems its having, without garunteed Knowledge of a player, Melee is a No no, I dunno maybe NA Is different, in EU Assassins are hated in Groups, too Many lag too much to use it properly, Too many cant use Anti-cancel due to high pings and Too many cannot play the class properly or use its Top DPS builds.

 

On EU, we Kick sins for being Sins as Stated, NA Maybe different... in Guild groups, or Static Groups maybe Sins are more welcome, but in a PuG People hate sins.

 

WL is a lot easier to run with, and tbh its DPS With the HM book is Pretty decent, and I get 2 SBs off on bigger bosses such as yeti, generally if I pop it pretty close to the beginning it'll be off CD at like 30%ish HP for a final burst.

 

WL DPS > a Lagging Sins DPS... if a Sin cant Anti-cancel its DPS will fall, if a Sin doesn't have the Ping to make Last minute reaction times to not waste time he can DPS = Ruining DPS.

 

90% of EU Lags... Therefore its a Ranged Playerbase.

[Shadovvv]

Everyone seems to be forgetting that KFM grapple is a thing. If there are three Fighting Spirit users in the party and one of them is a KFM, they can spec their grapple to hold down the boss for free DPS, chi regeneration, and some healing.

23 hours ago, GLoRToR said:

Please let's refrain from namecalling and resort to the widely accepted truth that people's views may differ.

I created this topic to help newbies like myself, not to kill each other over mere observations.

Thank you.

I feel this needs to be restated. The class bias seems to be getting rather out of hand.

 

OP is only asking for class role details. Anything about efficiency, ping, and other factors are all irrelevant to the topic at hand. Every class has a purpose, end of story.

[GLoRToR]

8 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Everyone seems to be forgetting that KFM grapple is a thing. If there are three Fighting Spirit users in the party and one of them is a KFM, they can spec their grapple to hold down the boss for free DPS, chi regeneration, and some healing.

I feel this needs to be restated. The class bias seems to be getting rather out of hand.

 

OP is only asking for class role details. Anything about efficiency, ping, and other factors are all irrelevant to the topic at hand. Every class has a purpose, end of story.

Actually I don't mind hearing about efficiency. As much as I love KM and AS for what they are, they seem to fall behind because all boss abilities seem to be geared towards "meleebane" and there are no "rangebane" bosses out there.
Typical example would be a boss that ravages close, far, mid and forces ranged to stick to him to be able to q/e and then run back out once the ravage ends.

[Shadovvv]

5 minutes ago, GLoRToR said:

Actually I don't mind hearing about efficiency. As much as I love KM and AS for what they are, they seem to fall behind because all boss abilities seem to be geared towards "meleebane" and there are no "rangebane" bosses out there.
Typical example would be a boss that ravages close, far, mid and forces ranged to stick to him to be able to q/e and then run back out once the ravage ends.

As an Assassin myself, seeing the constant bias toward our class is rather aggravating. Yes, we suffer from problems, but it's simply an obstacle that must be overcome; it doesn't make us any less efficient at our job. Every class has these problems, even the ranged are not infallible.

 

It's true some classes are better than others, but people shouldn't discriminate; every class is still effective and has their own role.

[Brainy]

Umm, if you want an easy melee class, roll Destroyer. You can spin through most boss mechanics and if you have HM Emberstomp, you can just stay in it and get close to no damage with almost full CC immunity - while still doing damage. They also have the best CC.

[GLoRToR]

8 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

As an Assassin myself, seeing the constant bias toward our class is rather aggravating. Yes, we suffer from problems, but it's simply an obstacle that must be overcome; it doesn't make us any less efficient at our job. Every class has these problems, even the ranged are not infallible.

 

It's true some classes are better than others, but people shouldn't discriminate; every class is still effective and has their own role.

People will be judgmental no matter what you do or say. (Refer to the old man and his donkey tale) so just do what you feel is right.
I simply like to sanity-check myself sometimes by asking people about things that I was suspecting.

Here I feel that KM and AS are struggling - but if they do achieve, they're untouchable.

Many bosses have unblockable radius attacks that come out in a split second, faster than you can even reach for q or e.
I have NO idea how to fight that.
Maybe dying to it enough times will mean that I can see it coming, but it's not fun, not a good mechanic and definitely not something I enjoy.
I have what to learn in the way of execution and rotation in this game and I'm not even mentioning pvp with those two classes yet.
I'm not one to be intimidated by failure but when I fail often I fact-check.
 

7 minutes ago, Brainy said:

Umm, if you want an easy melee class, roll Destroyer. You can spin through most boss mechanics and if you have HM Emberstomp, you can just stay in it and get close to no damage with almost full CC immunity - while still doing damage. They also have the best CC

Thanks, but you do notice in the OP how I don't even mention that class...
I don't want braindead.

[azraelkun]

Ppl just hate sins thats what i see.

The fact is if u know u have a good sin its priority to have him in group.

Example:i was using light build

In pve n yesterday in frozen fang with dark build i had aggro 50%of the time with 40 ap less my damage was insane.

Dont get me wrong i liked light build cause its easier n u dont get aggro.

Imagine i dont have yet heart stab leg neither the points to put as hm lvl 6

[Laosduude]

The only class you should pick is something you learn well and can use the right CC at the right times. Too many people just *cricket*ing want to damage, but bring no utility to overcome certain scenarios/mechanics.

[GLoRToR]

4 minutes ago, azraelkun said:

Ppl just hate sins thats what i see.

The fact is if u know u have a good sin its priority to have him in group.

Example:i was using light build

In pve n yesterday in frozen fang with dark build i had aggro 50%of the time with 40 ap less my damage was insane.

Dont get me wrong i liked light build cause its easier n u dont get aggro.

Imagine i dont have yet heart stab leg neither the points to put as hm lvl 6

What's a good tutorial for all assassin builds and skills explained to the greatest detail?

[GLoRToR]

3 minutes ago, Laoshottie said:

The only class you should pick is something you learn well and can use the right CC at the right times. Too many people just *cricket*ing want to damage, but bring no utility to overcome certain scenarios/mechanics.

Always been a multi-character type of person. Just trying to see which ones I'll keep for pvp and which ones are worth gearing out to the max.

[azraelkun]

8 minutes ago, GLoRToR said:

What's a good tutorial for all assassin builds and skills explained to the greatest detail?

I dont have any guide to give u about pve cause ive learned due time.

Basicaly sin in dark build stacks poison n lmb+rmb +f while u keep in mind ur poison stacks n timers of stacks

Ps just watch any sin lmb+rmb+f with 5 poison stucks u gonna love him the speed is insane the damage is insane its just awesome but very tiring.

U also have to care about ur iframe rotation in wgich order is u do .

Light build easier but not so awesome xd

[Shadovvv]

1 hour ago, GLoRToR said:

What's a good tutorial for all assassin builds and skills explained to the greatest detail?

Lightning:

• Constantly stays in stealth, using Heart Stab, Lightning Pierce, and Lightning Rod right tree as the main DPS rotation.
• Applies Shadow Drain, Bolt Strike, Shadow Dash, and Hook Kick to maintain stealth.
  • Spinal Tap lowers Shadow Drain cooldown.
  • Shadow Dash, Decoy, and Sneak Attack right tree lowers Hook Kick cooldown.
• Depending on the situation stealth can be difficult to maintain.
• Less available CCs, with only a reliable double stun. Taking knockdown/daze would generally require sacrificing essential tools.
• Less available ability to inflict poison.
• Less availability to apply out of stealth skills, primarily Decoy Stealth Protection, Poison Breath, and Shadow Slash.

Dark:

• Flexible and versatile using abilities both in and out of stealth:
  • Out:
    • Main rotation of Heart Stab, Mist Slash, and Dark Strike.
    • Can freely use Decoy Stealth Protection while still attacking with the main rotation.
  • In: Main rotation of Heart Stab and Lightning Crash, which animation cancels faster than Pierce/Rod and is still fairly powerful.
• Applies poison stacks more effectively than Lightning, with Mist Slash procing Venom Pierce and more availability for Venom Slash.
• More available CCs, with access to both a double stun and double daze or knockdown.

Shared:

• Uses the following for poison stacking: Poison Breath/Plaguemist/Choke Bomb, Set Landmine, Throwing Dagger, Acrid Star (resist), Venom Slash, and Mist Slash-Venom Pierce.
• Iframes in Shadow Dance/Sidestep Left (Q), Shunpo/Sidestep Right (E), Backstep (SS), Stealth Smokescreen (X), Lotus Fury (C), Lotus of Escape Single Pull (V), Flash Kick (Tab, no one uses this because its worthless and conditional), Decoy Left Tree (Hongmoon 2), and Shadow Dash (Hongmoon 1, not available).
• Gap closers in Turning Leaf, Shadow Dash/Sidewinder, Shunpo, Shadowslip, Swiftstep, and Lotus Fury.
• Area of effects in Landmine/Set Landmine, Shadow Slash middle left and middle right trees, Lightning Rod middle tree, Poison Breath/Plaguemist/Choke Bomb, and Lightning Stride (uses poison stacks).
• Time Bomb: Resets poison duration back to 10 seconds, even at 5 stacks. Automatically detonates after 7 seconds; manual detonation with Landmine/Set Landmine.
• Uses Spinal Tap, Lotus Kick, and Bolt Strike for stuns. Lotus Kick is generally taken if there isn't a situation where Lotus Fury isn't necessary.
• Uses Cyclone Sweep, Swiftstep, and Sneak Attack for daze. Cyclone Sweep requires losing Shadow Drain and Sneak Attack loses Hook Kick cooldown reduction.
• Uses Cyclone Sweep, Swifstep, Shadow Slash, and Landmine for knockdown. The latter two aren't really taken since they sacrifice poison stacking.
• Decoy middle tree for Stealth Protection: everyone gains a 1.5 second window that stealths on hit. It's unique that everyone but you gets an iframe, while it only functions as a normal Decoy for you.
• Smokescreen Tree:
  • Middle: Anti-projectile field.
  • Right: Stealth the entire party for 10 seconds within 3 meters of the Smokescreen, to bypass mobs. 0.5 second iframe on cast.
• Lotus of Escape Tree:
  • Far Left (Lotus of Escape): Pulls any dead, near dead, or chi recovering party members within 100 meters to the Lotus mark. While no longer useful on bosses due to Fighting Spirit overriding it, it's still very useful if someone dies on the way to the boss and are trapped by trash mobs.
  • Middle Right (Lotus of Rescue): Stealth you on activation and drops a Lotus mark for 15 seconds. On Rescue Call, all party member standing within 8 meters of the mark are pulled toward the Assassin; Assassin loses stealth, all party members gain 3 second stealth and one hit iframe (Hongmoon), and everyone gets 100% movement speed for 10 seconds. Useful for bypassing trash mobs and everyone gets a free taxi ride.
  • Far Right (Fighting Spirit): Stealth you on activation for 15 seconds, everyone in the party gains 40% critical chance, 50% critical damage, and 70% lifedrain damage for 10 seconds. On Hongmoon, you gain 100% Dark Strike, Lightning Pierce, and Lightning Rod additional damage, and 6 second Lightning Rod cooldown reduction for 10 seconds.
• Highwire for 3 second additional CC on bosses, with somewhat decent damage on Voltage (Act and Pull Cord don't do anything). While not as efficient as other classes' grabs and requires you to be 9 meters away, it's better than no grab.
• Webbing for aerial knockup extension. This actually doesn't see use now, but in future dungeons the boss has to be suspended in the air at some point or he kills everyone.
• Worthless skills: Bombard (Heart Stab right tree), Flash Kick, Lotus of Poison, Sidewinder (Shadow Dash right tree), Spinal Tap right tree.

For builds, I run this for Dark Build, and this for Lightning Build.

[Reaper00]

1 hour ago, GLoRToR said:

Thanks, but you do notice in the OP how I don't even mention that class...
I don't want braindead.

That's a little offensive. Why'd you mention FM then? 

 

Try doing BW or Terrors in SSP as a destroyer and see how well you do. Spinning and emberstomp won't help you there. It's also the class with the least amount of iframes which actually makes yeti a challenge on a lfg run.

[Brainy]

1 hour ago, GLoRToR said:

Thanks, but you do notice in the OP how I don't even mention that class...
I don't want braindead.

I was just saying...

 

Anyway, as Reaper pointed out above my post, FM falls into the "braindead" category even more than Destroyer.

[Archess]

On 17-5-2016 at 0:46 PM, Shadovvv said:

• Assassin:
  • Damage
  • Sub-tank
  • Solo and group stealth, giving them the best solo dungeon capacity.
  • Smokescreen choice of:
    • Anti-projectile field.
    • Group stealth past mobs
  • Two hit and stealth party protection via Decoy (default one, Hongmoon two)
  • Lotus of Escape choice of:
    • Pulls all dead, near dead, or chi recovering party members within 100 meters to Lotus of Escape's mark.
    • Stealth Assassin and pulls all living party members to the within 8 meters of Lotus of Rescue's mark directly to the Assassin, stealthing them, giving 100% movement speed bonus to everyone, and iframing party members (useful for group stealth past mobs).
    • Fighting Spirit
  • Grab via Highwire (albeit inferior to other classes)

• Assassin:
  • Damage
  • Solo stealth to boss

Sadly those are the only assasins ive ever encountered, its like a destroyers usefull grab of a near dead player to put him somewhere safe, it excists, though it is never used.

[KatHead]

Since we are making charts........

 

Best Classes in game (combination of dps / utility / viability pve / pvp):

 

1. Force Master - Nothing compares to this class as it excels in every single facet of the game. Ranged Class

 

2. Summoner- Tons of utility and so much more dps than people realize. Class can do it all and is the easiest class to play by a long shot. Ranged Class

 

3. Sin - Some utility in buffs and stealth along with massive dps, excels in pvp / pve and has a toolkit that allows them to be more successful in open world activities. Melee

 

*** Below this line things are more open for debate ***

 

4. Blade Master - Great utility in the form of crowd control and party protection, best tank option. Melee (my main so I am as biased as possible)

 

5. Warlock - Great burst damage along with solid utility and a group speed buff  / damage buff, also enjoys the safety of range. Ranged Class (could swap spots with kfm due to pvp condition)

 

6. KFM - Offensive minded tank, but does less dps than a BM. Generates easier / has higher threat than a BM, has a good damage buff. Melee

 

7. Blade Dancer - Has utility in the form of grab and solid dps. Has no hard counter in pvp. Melee

 

8 Destroyer - Brings utility and damage to the table but feels lackluster at everything it does. I prefer it in pve over a dancer but in pvp the BD is so much better. Melee

 

 

Classes in order of FUN:

 

1. Blade Master - Has no equal in the fun department, has some of the best animations in the game. Can be Yun !

 

2. KFM - Fun class, more spammy than bm but is still a very fun class. 

 

3. Sin - Fun to play, feels very unfair in pvp though (way to good). 

 

4. Destroyer - Fun to play for a while but gets boring before long. Only this high on list due to difficulty to play well in higher ranks of pvp (which makes it fun). 

 

5. Blade Dancer - Wanna be bm that you are forced to play a rat to be able to play. Small learning curve followed by the boredom of spinning. 

 

*** Every thing below this line suffers from being to boring to be called fun***

 

6. Force Master - Would be lower in the list but requires a working brain in pvp. Broken in both power level and boredom inducing ability. 

 

7. Warlock - Boring, but at least it takes some time to learn. When learning time is over this is a snooze fest.

 

8 Summoner - Easiest class in game by a very large margin, excels even if user does not posses a fully functional brain. To easy to be interesting, also a rat class. 

 

 

Ranged classes could be shifted in both of these lists if there were any inherent danger in playing range. Since there isnt and all rewards are a sure thing these classes are both to good and boring as possible to play. I think it is really unfair to people who like ranged classes to deprive them of the joy of attempting to survive while doing damage. 

 

[Tsuchiryu]

3 hours ago, Reaper00 said:

Try doing BW or Terrors in SSP as a destroyer and see how well you do. Spinning and emberstomp won't help you there. It's also the class with the least amount of iframes which actually makes yeti a challenge on a lfg run.

That's a little inaccurate with the iframes comment. I think no other class has as few iframes as Warlock does... I think only 2 or 3? Destroyer is serviceable on that aspect: Ram (2), Typhoon (Q), Fury (E), Searing Strike (C) and the backstep every class has (SS). There's also Blitz (1), but then you'd miss out on a great stun/daze effect, so I don't recommend it if you need the CC.

 

So that's 5-6 iframe skills Destroyers have... though Yeti can still be a challenge during cold phase, yes, but only because, aside from Searing Strike, timing the iframes on the other skills can be a bit strict. Nothing to do with how many iframes the class has, but rather how long they last and if you can chain them properly.

 

In cases where a defense and/or status resist buff is enough, Hurricane (Tab, specifically Stage 2) is king. In THOSE scenarios is where you can indeed call Destroyer braindead... but there are some scenarios where dodging or iframing is preferable. I already covered the iframing. As for dodging, Hurricane also helps with it since it increases your movement speed, so repositioning yourself is less of a hassle. Just make sure you have at least 20 Focus to spare. Of course, Emberstomp (3) also helps with defense and its HM skill makes it even better (still working on getting it :/ ).

 

Among other perks some already mentioned, there's the Grab (F), which is good for buying time for your cooldowns, extra healing from Wedge if enemy is small/light enough to let you use it and party support with either extra Focus and critical for whoever is attacking the grabbed enemy or defense debuff when said enemy is attacked.

 

There's also the lesser know but also very important perk of supporting near death party members. You can Rescue them (F) and Escape (2) from the action. Then you Set Down (1) and wait for the chi recovery to Iron Fortress (RMB) them to protect them and reduce chi recovery time.

[GLoRToR]

5 hours ago, Reaper00 said:

That's a little offensive. Why'd you mention FM then? 

 

Try doing BW or Terrors in SSP as a destroyer and see how well you do. Spinning and emberstomp won't help you there. It's also the class with the least amount of iframes which actually makes yeti a challenge on a lfg run.

 

5 hours ago, Brainy said:

I was just saying...

 

Anyway, as Reaper pointed out above my post, FM falls into the "braindead" category even more than Destroyer.

I've fought both in pvp and FM dies if I catch them in a stun. Destroyer has too much unblockable bullshit.

And there is a reason you don't see any FM bots, but many destroyers in open world, too.

Everything is "offensive" these days so I can't really say anything about that.

It all comes down to preferences, I can see why you'd say FM is braindead too, but nothing compares to Destroyer in that department - for me.

[GLoRToR]

4 hours ago, KatHead said:

Classes in order of FUN:

1. Warlock. Wish I knew why people say it's bad. I love it.

2. Kung-Fu. Finally a martial arts class that does it well. Wish you could lose the metal from your hands and go bare handed.

3. Assassin. So many games take a dump on stealth it's not even funny. This game finally does it mostly right. A bit circumstantial at times but still.

4. Force. Sorcery at its best.

[GLoRToR]

6 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

Lightning:

• Constantly stays in stealth, using Heart Stab, Lightning Pierce, and Lightning Rod right tree as the main DPS rotation.
• Applies Shadow Drain, Bolt Strike, Shadow Dash, and Hook Kick to maintain stealth.
  • Spinal Tap lowers Shadow Drain cooldown.
  • Shadow Dash, Decoy, and Sneak Attack right tree lowers Hook Kick cooldown.
• Depending on the situation stealth can be difficult to maintain.
• Less available CCs, with only a reliable double stun. Taking knockdown/daze would generally require sacrificing essential tools.
• Less available ability to inflict poison.
• Less availability to apply out of stealth skills, primarily Decoy Stealth Protection, Poison Breath, and Shadow Slash.

Dark:

• Flexible and versatile using abilities both in and out of stealth:
  • Out:
    • Main rotation of Heart Stab, Mist Slash, and Dark Strike.
    • Can freely use Decoy Stealth Protection while still attacking with the main rotation.
  • In: Main rotation of Heart Stab and Lightning Crash, which animation cancels faster than Pierce/Rod and is still fairly powerful.
• Applies poison stacks more effectively than Lightning, with Mist Slash procing Venom Pierce and more availability for Venom Slash.
• More available CCs, with access to both a double stun and double daze or knockdown.

Shared:

• Uses the following for poison stacking: Poison Breath/Plaguemist/Choke Bomb, Set Landmine, Throwing Dagger, Acrid Star (resist), Venom Slash, and Mist Slash-Venom Pierce.
• Iframes in Shadow Dance/Sidestep Left (Q), Shunpo/Sidestep Right (E), Backstep (SS), Stealth Smokescreen (X), Lotus Fury (C), Lotus of Escape Single Pull (V), Flash Kick (Tab, no one uses this because its worthless and conditional), Decoy Left Tree (Hongmoon 2), and Shadow Dash (Hongmoon 1, not available).
• Gap closers in Turning Leaf, Shadow Dash/Sidewinder, Shunpo, Shadowslip, Swiftstep, and Lotus Fury.
• Area of effects in Landmine/Set Landmine, Shadow Slash middle left and middle right trees, Lightning Rod middle tree, Poison Breath/Plaguemist/Choke Bomb, and Lightning Stride (uses poison stacks).
• Time Bomb: Resets poison duration back to 10 seconds, even at 5 stacks. Automatically detonates after 7 seconds; manual detonation with Landmine/Set Landmine.
• Uses Spinal Tap, Lotus Kick, and Bolt Strike for stuns. Lotus Kick is generally taken if there isn't a situation where Lotus Fury isn't necessary.
• Uses Cyclone Sweep, Swiftstep, and Sneak Attack for daze. Cyclone Sweep requires losing Shadow Drain and Sneak Attack loses Hook Kick cooldown reduction.
• Uses Cyclone Sweep, Swifstep, Shadow Slash, and Landmine for knockdown. The latter two aren't really taken since they sacrifice poison stacking.
• Decoy middle tree for Stealth Protection: everyone gains a 1.5 second window that stealths on hit. It's unique that everyone but you gets an iframe, while it only functions as a normal Decoy for you.
• Smokescreen Tree:
  • Middle: Anti-projectile field.
  • Right: Stealth the entire party for 10 seconds within 3 meters of the Smokescreen, to bypass mobs. 0.5 second iframe on cast.
• Lotus of Escape Tree:
  • Far Left (Lotus of Escape): Pulls any dead, near dead, or chi recovering party members within 100 meters to the Lotus mark. While no longer useful on bosses due to Fighting Spirit overriding it, it's still very useful if someone dies on the way to the boss and are trapped by trash mobs.
  • Middle Right (Lotus of Rescue): Stealth you on activation and drops a Lotus mark for 15 seconds. On Rescue Call, all party member standing within 8 meters of the mark are pulled toward the Assassin; Assassin loses stealth, all party members gain 3 second stealth and one hit iframe (Hongmoon), and everyone gets 100% movement speed for 10 seconds. Useful for bypassing trash mobs and everyone gets a free taxi ride.
  • Far Right (Fighting Spirit): Stealth you on activation for 15 seconds, everyone in the party gains 40% critical chance, 50% critical damage, and 70% lifedrain damage for 10 seconds. On Hongmoon, you gain 100% Dark Strike, Lightning Pierce, and Lightning Rod additional damage, and 6 second Lightning Rod cooldown reduction for 10 seconds.
• Highwire for 3 second additional CC on bosses, with somewhat decent damage on Voltage (Act and Pull Cord don't do anything). While not as efficient as other classes' grabs and requires you to be 9 meters away, it's better than no grab.
• Webbing for aerial knockup extension. This actually doesn't see use now, but in future dungeons the boss has to be suspended in the air at some point or he kills everyone.
• Worthless skills: Bombard (Heart Stab right tree), Flash Kick, Lotus of Poison, Sidewinder (Shadow Dash right tree), Spinal Tap right tree.

For builds, I run this for Dark Build, and this for Lightning Build.

That's some serious help, thanks. I've been using every stealth option, but mostly going for perma stealth. Haven't used the 4, using the 3 to slip back into stealth and then the other options when I do come out of it finally. Took down entire groups of mobs before with stealth cycling so I think I'm doing alright all things considered. Stacking poison seems to be what you prefer, but I hate to count stacks myself and would love to be able to either really permastealth somehow without the circumstantiality of it, or find a build that does well outside of stealth but still focuses around lightning.

Any pvp insight?

[KatHead]

1 hour ago, GLoRToR said:

1. Warlock. Wish I knew why people say it's bad. I love it.

2. Kung-Fu. Finally a martial arts class that does it well. Wish you could lose the metal from your hands and go bare handed.

3. Assassin. So many games take a dump on stealth it's not even funny. This game finally does it mostly right. A bit circumstantial at times but still.

4. Force. Sorcery at its best.

It isnt bad, it is just boring. I actually love the animations and the audio queues its the play style I find boring. I am glad you enjoy it though ! ;p