[PSA] Using SS (backstep) to pass through dungeon doors will incur punishment according to Ncsoft

[Ghobe]

2 hours ago, Rockbridge said:

I highly doubt that a single player will be banned for this. Is there anyone who honestly used this exploit "100s or 1000s of times".

Really? Because I have clanmates that have been abusing it for a long time and using comments like "oh I only managed to farm like 20g today"...20g...of moonwater tears...per day...only...yea...I can easily see singular people having done 1k+ runs.

[TopKEK]

4 minutes ago, JJhopper said:

You mean milk the playerbase and ignore the hard problems like 3rd party programs then when a exploit in which the coding is flawed ban people for making a process faster. I've seen publishers like Aeria games milk games before it was given any chances then blame that very playerbase it's bots because you buy from them and not our inflated prices. 

No one said it was ok, it's just funny how fast they react to it unlike the real problems like hackers and bots. Look at a developer like rockstar which bans most of the hackers. 

Do you really think that an infestation of bots can be easily cured? Rockstar games can work on banning hackers because they don't have botters going around making scripted characters in the masses and running around destroying things, getting money in-game and then selling it to people. And they don't have to deal with people who actually buy off botters unlike some people in this game. 

 

Rockstar literally has less to deal with unlike a real MMO which has to deal with much more than just hackers. Hackers can be dealt with swiftly and easily, but when you have to go through an army of bots + people who give these botters their profit, that's a different story. 

 

Also Aeria Games is horrid as a whole, NCSoft is a different company that has both good moments and bad moments, Aeria is just bad altogether. 

[AnokuHel]

This reminds me of the time a exploit was found in FF 11 devs never said a word about it but keep tap on the players that did it. Oh the crying they did when it was fix a month or two later and entire LS (guilds) were penma BANNED! All said the same bullcrap lines the ones here are using well to bad you cheat,exploit, hack, or/and buy from gold sellers you deserve to be permanently banned from the game. Good day and good riddance to you sir or madam as we don't need trash like you here.

[Aidaya]

Considering a minor game bug to be an "exploit" is the least stupid and unrealistic.

Instead of banning people that actually play this game, try banning 3rd party program users (aka bots) and make some significant changes rather than adding a class that we were suppose to have from the launch day.

[disguymAn]

Why punish these guys but not the afkers, botters, and master looters?

[Rawrzory]

4 hours ago, Eladriel said:

Actually bots are farming soulstones, silver-gold rank is filled with destroyer bots and doing that all day will probably get you few packs of soulstones pouches... Not to mention that lowbies that are new to PvP cant even beat botters in arena. Oh yea also bot in arena can see assassin in stealth... woah not game breaking at all just let them have they're fun...

 

And now what i mean by lowering prices was aimed at exploiters of ogong,too many mw tears on market actually resolved in lower prices then usual since before ogong fastest runs in brightstone was with assassin 5-6 mins so basically those players could semi-control tear prices on market,ogong at least gave a fair chance for everyone to farm. This game gives clear advantages to some classes. Sin took around 2-3mins for ogong and since he can clear whole dungeon without being detected and enemy moving,it will take him maybe 1 min more to kill few mini bosses. This fix/punishment will not do any good except giving advantages to some classes again.

 

Not saying this is excuse to exploit and that people should not get punished,by botters are far worse problem. What do you think botters do? they can farm arena for zen bean,farm items in open world,lvl characters,do quests. You can probably script them to farm moonwater quartz which is almost 1g per piece.... All of that is more hurtfull then exploiting ogong. people mostly exploited ogong to farm mw tear so they don't need to craft them and some to earn gold.

 

Just think like this,if you could have your 2nd account that farmed either mw quartz,zen beans or simply lvl full account of alts for daily faction quests and still play your main in the same time how rich would you get? and how much more worse then ogong is that?

 

Bots are worse by far no discussion about that, still my point was rather to say to the guy i quoted that it was for personal profit and in no way for the "faction". If it would have been done for the "faction" they should have given them away for free in faction chat. I agree a 100 % with your post that doesn't however mean i condone exploiting all of a sudden.

 

Edit: It's just the lesser of 2 evils, but still evil so to speak.

[chinmi]

5 minutes ago, Rawrzory said:

 

 I agree a 100 % with your post that doesn't however mean i condone exploiting all of a sudden.

yup, i agree too... well the good thing is, those exploiters is probably a normal user with only 1 account, so if they got banned they probably won't play again. so that's one less exploiter in the game.

 

the bot, gold seller, hackers, afk-ers, arena hacks, master loot ninja however... they probably have lots of accounts, and will constantly coming again and again and again. so i can't wait to see till the population in the game is only left with those kind of people... we all like them right ? they seem nicer then the one that do ss on a dungeon door.

[GnatB]

I have to disagree that bots are worse, due to the pervasiveness of people adapting the exploit.

 

I get a bot in my party, not a huge deal.  I can usually still do an instance.  I get 3-4 exploiters in my party, I have to quit out and find a different group to do it with.

[Rawrzory]

8 minutes ago, chinmi said:

yup, i agree too... well the good thing is, those exploiters is probably a normal user with only 1 account, so if they got banned they probably won't play again. so that's one less exploiter in the game.

 

the bot, gold seller, hackers, afk-ers, arena hacks, master loot ninja however... they probably have lots of accounts, and will constantly coming again and again and again. so i can't wait to see till the population in the game is only left with those kind of people... we all like them right ? they seem nicer then the one that do ss on a dungeon door.

 

Mate sofar the "nice" people i found in this game i can count on 2 hands. Most of these exploiters rush the dungeons and leave newbies behind not to forget they insult everybody that doesn't want to go along with their exploit. So how are they adding to the community again ? Nice sacrastic remark though sadly every one of the subjects you tried to use for it have been adressed by the devs. All in all i don't even think they will be perma ban, i do think they are get a slap on the wrist and maybe loose some gold and that will be it. If they ban them permanently i certainly wouldn't miss those people. 

 

Edit: Honest people are not getting banned and allot of the times honest people are friendly. So our entire community will become friendly ? Well thats absolute shite isn't it ?

[Eladriel]

3 hours ago, TopKEK said:

Do you really think that an infestation of bots can be easily cured? Rockstar games can work on banning hackers because they don't have botters going around making scripted characters in the masses and running around destroying things, getting money in-game and then selling it to people. And they don't have to deal with people who actually buy off botters unlike some people in this game. 

 

Rockstar literally has less to deal with unlike a real MMO which has to deal with much more than just hackers. Hackers can be dealt with swiftly and easily, but when you have to go through an army of bots + people who give these botters their profit, that's a different story. 

 

Also Aeria Games is horrid as a whole, NCSoft is a different company that has both good moments and bad moments, Aeria is just bad altogether. 

I'm pretty sure if they can check logs they could easily find who is botting and who doesn't. maybe companies get some share out of all the gold goldselling websites sell.. who knows..

 

I just think it's very funny as someone else already mentioned it. It's how fast they react to this and take some actions,you have botters in arena which actually are doing something that is gamebreaking like seeing assaassins in stealth,collecting zen beans which give main ingrediant (soulstones) for weapon upgrading now and for legendarys when they come one day,also stopping newbies in progressing in Arena cause some classes have it really hard vs bot destroyers and not to even mention that it's not even played by a person,it's script running and Nc soft decides to punish people for something that they actually had years to find and fix.....

 

Sorry as much as i agree that everyone who is exploiting anything in any game should get either warning or punishment,this game has far worse and more urgent problems to fix.

true people probably got rich by farming MW tears and probably spent more then half to upgrade gear and then stopped,but having a bot account farming 24/7 is far more worse,just think when legendary weapons come one day...and all the botters starts bidding,.they gonna fix this door bug,but botters will stay and ruin economy....

[Quantum]

I'm just gonna leave this here....

 

Quote

8. PROHIBITED AND IRREPARABLY HARMFUL ACTIVITIES CONCERNING NCSOFT

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU MAY NOT, WITHOUT SIGNED WRITTEN CONSENT FROM A LEGALLY AUTHORIZED REPRESENTATIVE OF NCSOFT, DO ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:

1. MISAPPROPRIATE, VIOLATE OR INFRINGE ANY THIRD-PARTY IP RIGHT;
2. USE ANY NCSOFT IP RIGHT EXCEPT AS PERMITTED UNDER THIS AGREEMENT OR OTHERWISE PERMITTED IN WRITING BY NCSOFT;
3. USE, OR PROVIDE OTHERS WITH, ANY SOFTWARE RELATED TO THE GAME, INCLUDING ANY AUTOMATION SOFTWARE (A.K.A. "BOT") OR SOFTWARE DESIGNED TO CHANGE OR MODIFY OPERATION OF THE GAME;
4. USE, OR PROVIDE OTHERS WITH, ANY "HACK," "CHEAT," "EXPLOIT" OR "MOD";

 

Source

[Diradem]

I love everyone who keeps saying "Who cares about the exploiters? Worry about the bots!"

 

Guess what... Believe it or not, bots do get banned overtime. It perhaps is not immediately as one would hope, but it does happen. But what you seem to not be factoring in... Is how easy it is to change your IP and make a new account... Especially when you aren't dedicating anytime or resources into it.

 

On the other hand, exploiters can do just as much harm as a bot, but are much easier to prevent. Perhaps this exploit is not the most harmful ever, but it does set a precedent for the future, if/when another exploit does pop up, that we as players can expect NCSoft to punish said exploiters.

 

Rather than being so short sighted and narrow minded... Look at some parts of the big picture.

[LagunaL8]

On 2/25/2016 at 10:13 AM, Karurosuda said:

They said in stream that they have logs that show those abusing it.
Those who were pressured into doing it once or twice will be overlooked, but those excessively absuing it are banworthy.

This all comes from the recent stream.

yeah but most likely the ones that spammed early off go scott free...

[TopKEK]

1 hour ago, Eladriel said:

I'm pretty sure if they can check logs they could easily find who is botting and who doesn't. maybe companies get some share out of all the gold goldselling websites sell.. who knows..

 

I just think it's very funny as someone else already mentioned it. It's how fast they react to this and take some actions,you have botters in arena which actually are doing something that is gamebreaking like seeing assaassins in stealth,collecting zen beans which give main ingrediant (soulstones) for weapon upgrading now and for legendarys when they come one day,also stopping newbies in progressing in Arena cause some classes have it really hard vs bot destroyers and not to even mention that it's not even played by a person,it's script running and Nc soft decides to punish people for something that they actually had years to find and fix.....

 

Sorry as much as i agree that everyone who is exploiting anything in any game should get either warning or punishment,this game has far worse and more urgent problems to fix.

true people probably got rich by farming MW tears and probably spent more then half to upgrade gear and then stopped,but having a bot account farming 24/7 is far more worse,just think when legendary weapons come one day...and all the botters starts bidding,.they gonna fix this door bug,but botters will stay and ruin economy....

The reason they can take action of exploiters is the fact that they can actually fight off the exploiters in comparison to the bots. The sheer difference between a botter and an exploiter is the fact that exploiters can be discouraged from using exploits as they play the game legitimately, botters don't. 

 

Botters literally have nothing to worry about for the sheer fact that they can literally generate as much bots as they need regardless of how many times you ban them. An exploiter is a legitimate player who, if they get banned, will know that they have done wrong and they can be discouraged from doing it again. Botters no matter how many times you ban, will just keep spawning. Yes I understand botters are more harmful than an exploiter, but how do you expect to fight an army with just a small number of people? These botters have hundreds of accounts randomly registered which I highly doubt NC West can keep track of all of them. Not only that, some of these botters probably use VPN so even if they get IP Banned, NCSoft can't do much if their IPs are undetected/hidden. 

 

People continue to push the idea that it's as simple as pushing a button to get rid of bots. It's not that easy. They have to constantly keep updating their anti-hack system, continue to monitor their game, continue looking through reports and so on and so fort. They do this for any person whether it be a botter, a hacker or an exploiter. NCSoft has to continuously put their efforts into ensuring that the game isn't filled with people who break ToS. The difference between an exploiter and a botter is that a botter has literally nothing to lose therefore no matter how much NCSoft try to fight them, they just keep coming and in more numbers than before.

 

This is a battle for any MMO out there that are open world/sandbox, botters, hackers, exploiters, all constantly being fought by most, if not all, MMO publishers and developers. Some do better than others because they have the manpower to constantly keep their games protected. And some do better at keeping their games protected because the actual game community supports the publishers/developers in keeping the game protected from hackers/bots/exploiters. I can't say the same for Blade and Soul community at this point though because while the roar for making the game itself Hack and Bot free is definitely loud (and I wholeheartedly support the majority of them that NCSoft does need to do something about it), it disregards everything else that is a break in ToS, current one being Exploiters. 

[Vau]

how can they punish people when its pretty much mandatory now if you want to run the instance. 

 

not many people are reporting it, except mabye the one guy who does not know how to do it and gets stuck.

 

i dont like it but i've had to do it, because i wanna get my quest done, and not doing it means i don't.  

 

actually ive been playing a different game more and more honesty. im even starting to not care about SS dailys.

 

the game runs like crap and its sickening playing the game like that when there are so many other choices that dont run like crap.

 

plus the game has turned into a routine. same thing every day, nothing swaps it up. 99% of loot is absolute trash, the only thing that's important is farming moneys for tiny weapon upgrades.  

[tinkerchel]

I did SS a couple of times through doors for dailies, because everyone else was doing it. Should I get banned for it - I will accept it, because I knowingly used that exploit. Yes, bots are a big problem, but that doesnt mean abusing bugs becomes acceptable behaviour. So stop crying, if you have been using it hundreds of times, thats beyond casually doing your quests. It was intentional and you knew it might happen. Also whats done is done. Should you be one of those exploiters, all you can do is pray your acc doesnt get banned.  Just adding my two cents.

[Arcadia]

There are two sides here. The exploiters who actually abused it constantly, re-running dungeons over and over and walked away with massive gains... and the normal users who saved themselves ~5 minutes once every day or two.

Major problem is if 5/6 of the group glitches, it's not like you can clear through on your own. And nobody wants to be "that guy" who is aggroing unnecessary trash, doesn't know the route, and is costing the group time.

 

I mean look at BSH, wallrun and SS are basically the exact same thing, skills. One could argue wall running up the crates and bypassing the trash by gliding over to save time is also an "exploit". At least in the same way bypassing doors to save time is  also an exploit.

 

As a player it's entirely impossible to determine what arbitrary standards they will set for what qualifies as an exploit. I mean heck, using iframes might qualify as an exploit, I mean the boss was afterall coded to do an attack that is intended to do damage. By using SS to avoid the attack your basically exploiting. At least to the exact same extent that the doors were coded in such a way that they were intended to block passage and by using SS you can avoid them as well. It's literally the same concept.

 

Thing X was intended to do thing Y but thing Z prevents/avoids it. I mean, you could consider 80% of the games interactions an exploit under that logic. Food "bypasses" the wait time of passively regenerating life. Potions bypass the damage you took. Sprinting avoids the time it would normally take to travel x distance. Block avoids damage you would normally take. Ect... I think the real solution is to patch the game. Not ban players for playing it how it was made.

 

P.S. when do we get to see open world pvp'ers getting banned for using escape before dying? Now that is legit frustrating :/

[Silvershadow]

1 minute ago, Arcadia said:

There are two sides here. The exploiters who actually abused it constantly, re-running dungeons over and over and walked away with massive gains... and the normal users who saved themselves ~5 minutes once every day or two.

Major problem is if 5/6 of the group glitches, it's not like you can clear through on your own. And nobody wants to be "that guy" who is aggroing unnecessary trash, doesn't know the route, and is costing the group time.

 

I mean look at BSH, wallrun and SS are basically the exact same thing, skills. One could argue wall running up the crates and bypassing the trash by gliding over to save time is also an "exploit". At least in the same way bypassing doors to save time is  also an exploit.

 

As a player it's entirely impossible to determine what arbitrary standards they will set for what qualifies as an exploit. I mean heck, using iframes might qualify as an exploit, I mean the boss was afterall coded to do an attack that is intended to do damage. By using SS to avoid the attack your basically exploiting. At least to the exact same extent that the doors were coded in such a way that they were intended to block passage and by using SS you can avoid them as well. It's literally the same concept.

 

Thing X was intended to do thing Y but thing Z prevents/avoids it. I mean, you could consider 80% of the games interactions an exploit under that logic. Food "bypasses" the wait time of passively regenerating life. Potions bypass the damage you took. Sprinting avoids the time it would normally take to travel x distance. Block avoids damage you would normally take. Ect... I think the real solution is to patch the game. Not ban players for playing it how it was made.

 

P.S. when do we get to see open world pvp'ers getting banned for using escape before dying? Now that is legit frustrating :/

 

Please do not try to defend exploits. If 5 other people in your group use the exploit either leave the group or stand outside. Or, if youre geared enough, clear solo.

And using Bloodshade Harbor as an excuse doesnt work. This Dungeon was DESIGNED for Wall Dashing. That's also why there are Gunners everywhere. 

This was officialy done and said.

[Vau]

cant fault people for doing what they need to do, exploit or not. running by all the trash is a pretty huge friggin exploit and everyone does it. too bad there is no door involved then something would be done about that . 

[Soher]

23 minutes ago, Arcadia said:

There are two sides here. The exploiters who actually abused it constantly, re-running dungeons over and over and walked away with massive gains... and the normal users who saved themselves ~5 minutes once every day or two.

Major problem is if 5/6 of the group glitches, it's not like you can clear through on your own. And nobody wants to be "that guy" who is aggroing unnecessary trash, doesn't know the route, and is costing the group time.

 

I mean look at BSH, wallrun and SS are basically the exact same thing, skills. One could argue wall running up the crates and bypassing the trash by gliding over to save time is also an "exploit". At least in the same way bypassing doors to save time is  also an exploit.

 

As a player it's entirely impossible to determine what arbitrary standards they will set for what qualifies as an exploit. I mean heck, using iframes might qualify as an exploit, I mean the boss was afterall coded to do an attack that is intended to do damage. By using SS to avoid the attack your basically exploiting. At least to the exact same extent that the doors were coded in such a way that they were intended to block passage and by using SS you can avoid them as well. It's literally the same concept.

 

Thing X was intended to do thing Y but thing Z prevents/avoids it. I mean, you could consider 80% of the games interactions an exploit under that logic. Food "bypasses" the wait time of passively regenerating life. Potions bypass the damage you took. Sprinting avoids the time it would normally take to travel x distance. Block avoids damage you would normally take. Ect... I think the real solution is to patch the game. Not ban players for playing it how it was made.

 

P.S. when do we get to see open world pvp'ers getting banned for using escape before dying? Now that is legit frustrating :/

Kudos for you.

[Xenosaga]

Let me say about SS exploit like in Ogong.

This exploit is sure massively used. But not all players know the exploit.

 

That means:

- confusion why some players are already near end boss while others still fight in first room...

- Chance on lock out. If like 2 players are already attacking end boss and others are in first room, it's useless to contiue... because there is firewall that will prevent others join the battle. Why wasting time for 2 idiots? And they even might die and ress over and again, makes it LONG and BORING dungeon for others. Why are others there anyway? We want fight, not sit down lazy for 2 idiots. Also much less exp and drops for others....!

- Players will report players who use exploit.
- And after a while, game will lose players because dungeons are too much exploited. It's not more challenge but just childish play. Easy reach the end boss.

 

PARTY = HELP ALL PLAYERS. NOT "SOLO MODE" AND RUN AWAY FOR YOUR OWN GAIN. Locked them out lose the party mood and it's not FUN to play anymore.
Why must we wait for 2 players? We have not all time for it.

Party is not solo mode. It's team mode, you should help other players so all can reach the end boss.

 

It's not recommended to exploit the game massively. That breaks the game fun. If you like the game, do it in right ways.

[Arcadia]

Here is an idea, just like how the fire appears behind you when you start a fight... have there be fire in front of you on the other side of the doors that also goes away when the boss/trash/whatever trigger is completed. Then people just insta-die if they attempt to go through doors before clearing.

Bonus points too, because it's already something in the game. You don't even have to fix your buggy game and it's exploitable collision bypassing movement skill!

[Eladriel]

3 hours ago, Diradem said:

I love everyone who keeps saying "Who cares about the exploiters? Worry about the bots!"

 

Guess what... Believe it or not, bots do get banned overtime. It perhaps is not immediately as one would hope, but it does happen. But what you seem to not be factoring in... Is how easy it is to change your IP and make a new account... Especially when you aren't dedicating anytime or resources into it.

 

On the other hand, exploiters can do just as much harm as a bot, but are much easier to prevent. Perhaps this exploit is not the most harmful ever, but it does set a precedent for the future, if/when another exploit does pop up, that we as players can expect NCSoft to punish said exploiters.

 

Rather than being so short sighted and narrow minded... Look at some parts of the big picture.

Overtime doesn't cut it,there's plenty of bots in gold-plat rank in arena and that's more then enough for a person to get tons of soulstones. I don't mind that exploiters get some punishment but they react now? That bug was known since beggining,every experienced player that played any other version of B&S probably knew about the bug, NC Soft should have known it as well....Even after it was posted on forum they should have just put that dungeon offline/close it not reacting 2 weeks after it got posted on forum. You actually think banning players now will help? i'm pretty sure people have exploiting it since the start and it would explain how some people got 5k+ gold and such....

 

Only thing that a ban will do now is harm to this game,no matter what most ppl say im pretty sure at least 50% of active lvl 45s did it,even people who found out about it on forum have had more then enough time to to farm enough money to upgrade to max... The one that probably did it also probably spent lots of cash on this game so i seriously doubt they will ban people who give them money.

[chinmi]

one thing i hate about the ss exploiter is they force me to leave the group mid way, and find another group. and i can spend almost hours to find a legit group. and that is tiring and exhausting.

yes there are other problems need to be solved first, but at least for the other problem maker, they :

• bots : hey, they didn't ss thru the door, some of them have working path mechanism and fight till the end
• afk : they didn't ss thru the door, they just stand there in the entrance
• gold seller : they didn't do dg anyway, so they didn't do any harm to any dg, we can block them easily
• arena hacker : they're in arena not in dg
• master loot ninja : well, he's a good leader that maintain the group till the end of the dg, he deserve all the loot. 

and that is why the exploiter that ss thru the door is worse then those kind of people up there. the ss exploiter need to be banned. and the fact that the ss exploiter are real player make permanent ban is the best option. because most of them only have 1 account, and when that's banned, they won't be back playing, and that surely will take some of his real friend to stop playing too. and that's good. we don't need real player exploiter and his real player friend in this game.

 

[Meerkat]

I will never, ever understand why shitters are surprised and indignant when a gaming company takes action against them for exploiting.

 

You were lubing yourself up the entire time!  Why are you surprised now?!