All mats are now 50-100% more expensive while requiring more than ever, great job

[PetPuggi]

Just wanna throw this out here. Costs of mats in NA:

 

1. Transformation stone: 21g. 100% increase from old price of 10g just a few weeks ago
2. Moonstone: 9-10g. Almost 100% increase from old price of 5-6g
3. Sacred orb: 2.1g. 50% increase from ~1.5g
4. Elysian orb: 8g. 50% increase from ~5.5g
5. Soulstone: 80s. I don't remember exactly how much it was before but I'm pretty sure it increased by at least 25%
6. Evolved stone: 20g. I'm guessing it's probably at least 30% increase compared to before this patch
7. PTS: ~430g. About a 10% increase, which I'm surprised, would've expected it to hit 500g by now
8. Oil: 475g. I'm guessing at least a 25% increase

 

Getting your dailies done on a low gear alt, i.e. doing 2-4 easy dungeons, yields maybe enough gold to buy ONE transformation stone and enough mats to craft a HALF (thanks to NCW gating tradeable moonstones behind your wallet aka 6v6 epeen contest). How generous. Yeah one stage of a raven 3 weapon will only take a week of dailies. 

 

Most if not all gold and mats have been nerfed in every place in this game (including how crafting transformation stones has the same cost as before but yields 33% less which is the single biggest FU in this patch) while costs have actually increased thanks to this current joke of a patch. Now factor in new players have a truckload of different gear to upgrade, and all of them pretty much have a million stages to reach costing exponentially more mats (remember the good times when it was literally just 2 tiers, purple and legendary? If you had true scorpio you were "nearly endgame"), while NCW/NCS finding excuses to nerf drops literally every other patch, I'm surprised why newcomers don't instantly uninstall once they even take a 2sec look at the upgrade tree and calculate all the costs.

 

And for all the white knights saying "go farm your mats", where do you think mats came from 2 months ago, out of my ass? People still farm them the same way since the game's launch. Common sense tells you higher demand + lower supply due to nerfed drops creates a higher price point. Go take a look on wiki before spewing some "players are too lazy to farm now which is why prices are higher" bullshit.

[Grimoir]

You see raw materials increase because players are too lazy to actually farm and prefer buying it on F5. More demand = higher price.

 

[Asuramon]

13 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

You see raw materials increase because players are too lazy to actually farm and prefer buying it on F5. More demand = higher price.

 

This is simply not true. Especially with new enlightened jewels and elemets, demand for moonstones and elysians spiked up for everyone not at endgame tier gear (which is most players). Transformation stones crafting cost and upgrade quantity required also increased, which also uses all tradeable mats. Which consequently also increased prices for oils and pet pods because they require the same.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Asuramon

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, Asuramon said:

This is simply not true. Especially with new enlightened jewels and elemets, demand for moonstones and elysians spiked up for everyone not at endgame tier gear (which is most players). Transformation stones crafting cost and upgrade quantity required also increased, which also uses all tradeable mats. Which consequently also increased prices for oils and pet pods because they require the same.

It is true. Due to the crafting time change everyone started making them and since they didnt invest time inf arming they buy them out. Has nothing to do with Enlightened jewels but more with players going the easy way.

[Yaory]

17 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

It is true. Due to the crafting time change everyone started making them and since they didnt invest time inf arming they buy them out. Has nothing to do with Enlightened jewels but more with players going the easy way.

Crafting price increase-> transformation stones price increase -> higher prices  on basic mats because of the crafting prices , had nothing to do with players ‘going the easy way’, it’s not like players stop farming from a patch to another in a matter of 1-2week.

 And before you tell me it’s because of high demands, yes you’re right, but what caused those high demands? Crafting prices of course!

Edited November 1, 2019 by Yaory

[Galeon81]

Assuming all the prices above are from f5, I don't think it's right to blame NCS/NCW. It's the community who decide the prices of those items, and as @Grimoir pointed out, more demand results in higher prices. That's basic economy. As the weapons & accessories progresses, players will need more & more mats to upgrade their gears.

 

Should the dev team start create ceiling price for each items on the market in order to manage the economy? Most likely they will recommend you buying from f10 instead.   

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 41 Minuten schrieb Galeon81:

Assuming all the prices above are from f5, I don't think it's right to blame NCS/NCW. It's the community who decide the prices of those items, and as @Grimoir pointed out, more demand results in higher prices. That's basic economy. As the weapons & accessories progresses, players will need more & more mats to upgrade their gears. 

You are not completly right. The Problem is NC said its gonna be a cost reduction but in the end it cost more so they advitised their patch wrong thats why people are complaining.

 

If you say its Community fault cause they put the prices higher not NC you are wrong aswell cause alot of times NC refuses to do stuff the community whishes with the excuse it could impact the market (F5).

That means they are looking at the market and are trying to balance it out but there is a problem either they do this willingly so F10 sells more or KR got the same problem as we in EU the devs/manager and pretty much everyone who works at NC dosent know the game so they couldnt say its gonna be an impact like this.

 

In Theory its easy to not do such mistakes and the solution is "communication" which is not their strengh as long as F10 works fine. Some Managers actully used the term "community is toxic" as an excuse for their missing communication which lets you think "why again is EU/NA Community so toxic towards NC ? " Spoiler: Managers will not see the reason.

Edited November 1, 2019 by ImoutoMaster

[Belido]

 

vor 3 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

You see raw materials increase because players are too lazy to actually farm and prefer buying it on F5. More demand = higher price.

vor 1 Stunde schrieb Grimoir:

It is true. Due to the crafting time change everyone started making them and since they didnt invest time inf arming they buy them out. Has nothing to do with Enlightened jewels but more with players going the easy way.

 

crafting time never been a limit, sry. Crafting is rather a bad joke then a true crafting in this game, you been able to get a crowd of crafter alts up in no time. I was never even close to be limited by the craft times for transformation stones.

But yes if you really feel the urge to blame the players, tell em they are just lazy slackers, as they could easily farm more to even out the increase of resource cost, same also work for increased upgrade cost and ofc as well for any lack of gear progression -> all problems solved

[Grimoir]

8 minutes ago, ImoutoMaster said:

That means they are looking at the market and are trying to balance it out but there is a problem either they do this willingly so F10 sells more or KR got the same problem as we in EU the devs/manager and pretty much everyone who works at NC dosent know the game so they couldnt say its gonna be an impact like this.

On this note:

 

The devs who in fact are responsible for the changes do not need to play the game or know it. what they care about is data. So purely as example:

 

If they see that for example 5x more onyx scales are being earned than actually used / consumed - they decide to increase amount needed for upgrades

If they see that more and more Transformation stones flow into the market than are used - they decide to increase the amount etc...

 

They care and operate on data, they do not need to know anything else. Now, whether changes are good or bad is another story. I think the increase in stones for some upgrades are a bit too much, and some are unreal.  Thats why between players and devs is NC they rely feedback to the devs on what the players say.

(now given patch notes etc were not correct, well....its not Cyans or Himes job to test patches, they have a team for that so if that team doesnt test or provide accurate data for the patch notes, its natural they will be incorrect.)

[Grimoir]

3 minutes ago, Belido said:

 

crafting time never been a limit, sry. Crafting is rather a bad joke then a true crafting in this game, you been able to get a crowd of crafter alts up in no time. I was never even close to be limited by the craft times for transformation stones.

But yes if you really feel the urge to blame the players, tell em they are just lazy slackers, as they could easily farm more to even out the increase of resource cost, same also work for increased upgrade cost and ofc as well for any lack of gear progression -> all problems solved

No, i am not saying its all the players fault, but i do not think the blame is 100% at NC side either. Players give and gave their fair share to ruining the game / economy as much as patches from Korea.

[Belido]

vor 1 Minute schrieb Grimoir:

If they see that for example 5x more onyx scales are being earned than actually used / consumed - they decide to increase amount needed for upgrades

If they see that more and more Transformation stones flow into the market than are used - they decide to increase the amount etc...

Well for sure it is better if they know what they are working on.

And ofc it's not that easy, I bet there are a lot high end players who are just pilling up those onyx scales, while those in progression need them urgently and are always short of them. Last one will be for sure prety unhappy if a dev comes along and says, hey lets decreease them as there are way too much ingame.

[ImoutoMaster]

vor 16 Minuten schrieb Grimoir:

 what they care about is data.

Thats exactly what i am complaining about. Data can tell you alot but if you dont play the game you dont know the economy which you need to understand to do changes which impact farmability and cost.

 

A real big example is PVP 3v3 i asked them in stream why they dont remove the time restriction of course they told me its cause of their data they look into and saw how unpopular it is thats why they decided to do this step. Thats completly ok and a good reason i agree to that but if you look at the players side people who actully play this game and know whats happening ingame its totally different. You could find any day matches sure only in the afternoon but it was much more than 3 hours.

 

Just wanted to give this example cause its to my knowledge the biggest ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ up they did due to their view on data instead of player experience i mean no one asked for a time restriction there was not a single player ( to my knowledge ) who asked for this.

 

Same happens with the "cost reductions" they look at the data think they can make something cheaper but dont know how it will impact the game which an active player could have told them in minutes. I just want NC to employ people who play this game and can give feedback about patches before they get released instead of relying on data.

[Nemises]

4 hours ago, Grimoir said:

You see raw materials increase because players are too lazy to actually farm and prefer buying it on F5. More demand = higher price.

Maybe or maybe not, why should the players change their behavior in days, this is just a speculation. It could also be, that many players that already have max gear stopped farmng and selling, because it's too boring for them. Just another speculation.

2 hours ago, Grimoir said:

They care and operate on data, they do not need to know anything else.

They do and they decided to change two things instead of one concerning transformation stones, which both have an impact on the data.

1. Increase of the amount of transformation stones needed to upgrade the lower weapon stages

2. Increase the crafting costs for the stones

While the first change already brings a rise of the transformation stone prices due the higher demand of the market, the second change pushes the price increase even futher as  the crafting materials aren't becoming more.

 

My guess on this is they (the developers) speculated with the impact of the new crafting time on the market. With the 1min craft there is the possibility to overflow the market with transformation stones making them cheaper. They wanted to prevent happening this and overdone it by increasing the materials needed, because they underestimated the price increase of the crafting materials itself. However this is just another speculation as we don't get any information if the heavy increase it intended or another adjustment will be made,  which is kind of sad as the players are left alone again... and it leaves much space for more speculations...

[PetPuggi]

3 hours ago, Galeon81 said:

Assuming all the prices above are from f5, I don't think it's right to blame NCS/NCW. It's the community who decide the prices of those items, and as @Grimoir pointed out, more demand results in higher prices. That's basic economy. As the weapons & accessories progresses, players will need more & more mats to upgrade their gears.

 

Should the dev team start create ceiling price for each items on the market in order to manage the economy? Most likely they will recommend you buying from f10 instead.   

You clearly didn't get the point of this post if you think it's about setting a ceiling price.

Greatly increase demand + greatly decreased supply, what do you think will happen to the price? You think players are just being ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ purposely agreeing to all set price higher than normal? Basic supply and demand you learn in like first year of high school. And who do you think causes the increase in demand and decrease in supply? If you know the answer to that question then you'll know what I'm talking about in OP.

Edited November 1, 2019 by PetPuggi

[Grimoir]

53 minutes ago, PetPuggi said:

You clearly didn't get the point of this post if you think it's about setting a ceiling price.

Greatly increase demand + greatly decreased supply, what do you think will happen to the price? You think players are just being ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ purposely agreeing to all set price higher than normal? Basic supply and demand you learn in like first year of high school. And who do you think causes the increase in demand and decrease in supply? If you know the answer to that question then you'll know what I'm talking about in OP.

Players. they are the only supply and demand in the game. Not the publisher and not the devs.

[Arohk]

just play the game and material will come on its own.

 

[Grimoir]

32 minutes ago, Arohk said:

just play the game and material will come on its own.

Cant argue with that. Just from dailies, dungeons and basin farming and pvp

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Grimoir

[PetPuggi]

5 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Players. they are the only supply and demand in the game. Not the publisher and not the devs.

Are you serious? That is the stupidest ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ I have ever heard from you, which is saying a lot considering you pretty much camp here 24/7 defending absolutely everything this company does, putting even FO76 white knights to shame. Players are to blame for mat prices skyrocketing when NCS/NCW are the ones controlling upgrade costs AND drop rates?

 

So you're saying drivers control the supply of gasoline in a country that doesn't depends on importing from another country? So if that exporting country suddenly stops providing gasoline and gas price skyrockets, it's the drivers' fault for causing prices to skyrocket right? Totally not the fault of the exporting country? If NCW/NCS one day decides to decrease all mat drops to ZERO, put them all in cash shop, and increase costs to upgrade weapon by 500%, essentially creating zero supply but infinite demand, it's still players' fault for driving a moonstone to 50g in F5 right? Cause players are greedy a-holes for "wanting upgrade materials to upgrade their gear"?

 

Did you leave your common sense out the door today?

Edited November 1, 2019 by PetPuggi

[Grimoir]

45 minutes ago, PetPuggi said:

Are you serious? That is the stupidest ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ I have ever heard from you, which is saying a lot considering you pretty much camp here 24/7 defending absolutely everything this company does, putting even FO76 white knights to shame. Players are to blame for mat prices skyrocketing when NCS/NCW are the ones controlling upgrade costs AND drop rates?

 

So you're saying drivers control the supply of gasoline in a country that doesn't depends on importing from another country? So if that exporting country suddenly stops providing gasoline and gas price skyrockets, it's the drivers' fault for causing prices to skyrocket right? Totally not the fault of the exporting country? If NCW/NCS one day decides to decrease all mat drops to ZERO, put them all in cash shop, and increase costs to upgrade weapon by 500%, essentially creating zero supply but infinite demand, it's still players' fault for driving a moonstone to 50g in F5 right? Cause players are greedy a-holes for "wanting upgrade materials to upgrade their gear"?

 

Did you leave your common sense out the door today?

You dont seem to grasp the concept....devs dont play the game, they do not give items in game, they do not create items from thin air in game.

 

Players, play the game and farm materials, players decide if and for how much they want to sell in game items, players decide what and ho0w they want to upgrade something, and players decide if they want to farm or buy items.

In other words, its players who drive the supply and demand of items in the game. The more players farm items, the cheaper they will get since everyone will try to sell and undercut.

The more players decide to upgrade things the higher the demand, the higher the demand, people will list items to sell higher to get more profit.

 

The item prices would go up the same way as now if the upgrade costs would have been actually reduced since then far more player would be upgrading so the demand would have been higher.

[Nemises]

17 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Players, play the game and farm materials, players decide if and for how much they want to sell in game items, players decide what and ho0w they want to upgrade something, and players decide if they want to farm or buy items.

Developers are creating the upgrade materials, deciding about the players farming spots, deciding how fast you get the items by the droprate and how much you need to upgrade by the upgrade costs. All these factors influence the value of an item for the players and therefore influences the gold price players connect to an item.

 

So "the players decide" is just half of the truth, the visible part. As you pointed out in another answer to this topic the devs are collecting data and providing updates based on these data sets. In fact the developers are adjusting things based on a progression model that is made in the early developtment stages of a game and consistently customized after it's release (streamlining the old content is just one example of the costumization of this model). The progression model trys to predict the development speed of a server based on farming possibilities, population, events, cash shop items etc. even before one player sets a step on it or a new update hits the server. Without that kind of model the developers wouldn't be able to create a rough timeline with decisions like when the next update has to hit the server to keep people busy. So the developers (not the publisher) at least share 50% of the responsibility of the prices.

18 hours ago, Grimoir said:

In other words, its players who drive the supply and demand of items in the game. The more players farm items, the cheaper they will get since everyone will try to sell and undercut.

I agree with this on a healthy game state, but if the population is too low the prices will rise. Also if many veteran players leave the game (which is for me a fact if I take a look on my FL for the last patches) or stop farming beyond their own need (which I just did because the farming content bores the hell out of me) the prices will rise for those who are still in need of the items.

18 hours ago, Grimoir said:

The item prices would go up the same way as now if the upgrade costs would have been actually reduced since then far more player would be upgrading so the demand would have been higher.

Definitly not if I may pick up your supply/demand argument. After the patch we need more materials to craft less transformation stones. Without this change more transformation stones could have been crafted for the same amount materials in the market with the consequenz you have mentioned above: The demand after the patch stays the same, but the supply is much higher = lower prices than now.

 

 

[Merlin DE]

vor 18 Stunden schrieb Grimoir:

You dont seem to grasp the concept....devs dont play the game, they do not give items in game, they do not create items from thin air in game.

Players, play the game and farm materials, players decide if and for how much they want to sell in game items, players decide what and ho0w they want to upgrade something, and players decide if they want to farm or buy items.

In other words, its players who drive the supply and demand of items in the game. The more players farm items, the cheaper they will get since everyone will try to sell and undercut.

The more players decide to upgrade things the higher the demand, the higher the demand, people will list items to sell higher to get more profit.

The item prices would go up the same way as now if the upgrade costs would have been actually reduced since then far more player would be upgrading so the demand would have been higher.

Dude, thats like flat earthers claiming earth is flat cause they cant see the curve or earth is under a dome cause there cant be presure next to the vacuum in space. WTF is wrong with you?

NC Soft constantly decreased the supply of materials during the last  3 years. We had way more dungeons dropping materials / materials chests  / pouches even, bosses droped materialchests / pouches. We get way less materials while we need way more time to farm them. Even MSP 4-6 is not realy worth to farm anymore because sacred orbs are now at ~2 gold. You need 4 keys to open stage 4, 5 and 6 which are 12 Sacred Orbs or ~24 Gold. If you dont get an evolved Stone its a loss to open the cheast instead of selling the orbs.

Just to stay at the example of Fuel / Oil, Oil price increases cause our oil ressources getting lower and lower. If a ressource is not available or is getting more and more harder to obtain the price will rise. Its not the players fault when ressourses are reduced by NC-Soft, nor its players fault when demand for ressources are increased by NC-Soft and its not the fault of the market. Its a Result of the BS NC-Soft keep doing since years.

To say "Oh ressources are so expensive cause you only need 1 minute to craft things" is plain BS.

1. You need more materials now then you needed befor the patch to craft Transformation stones
2. You only get 24 Transformation stones instead of 35 you got before and need nore mats
3. You need way more Transformation stones for upgrading

In fact more ressources needed, less outcome and higher demand, thats how NC-Soft knowingly and intended manipulated the pricing for everything, especialy for weapon upgrades.

Most Poeple not even running TT let alone ET and in Asia the next raid was already released.

Thats while prices increased, not because people now crafting like crazy.

 

Will you ever stop defending every NC-Soft BS?

Guess not

 

 

[Necrontyr]

Note that another reason of tradeable moonstones being 100% more expensive is that the only way to get them is 6v6, and they decided to release a new PvP soulshield and new PvP weapon tier in the last patch. People with decent pvp gear and a decent income of battleground points are using them to upgrade their gear instead of buying material boxes and selling MS in market. Every time a new pvp tier came up, MS prices skyrocketed.

 

Time it together with the TS crafting change and the upgrade costs changes and it has become the biggest FU in NC history.

 

Edit: Also they decided to remove 6v6 from daily challenge to demotivate people to farm bg points.

Edited November 2, 2019 by Necrontyr

[MissHaiko]

Well said, Merlin. Great analogy and reasoning.

[SilentOne]

On 2. 11. 2019 at 8:22 PM, Necrontyr said:

Note that another reason of tradeable moonstones being 100% more expensive is that the only way to get them is 6v6, and they decided to release a new PvP soulshield and new PvP weapon tier in the last patch. People with decent pvp gear and a decent income of battleground points are using them to upgrade their gear instead of buying material boxes and selling MS in market. Every time a new pvp tier came up, MS prices skyrocketed.

 

Time it together with the TS crafting change and the upgrade costs changes and it has become the biggest FU in NC history.

 

Edit: Also they decided to remove 6v6 from daily challenge to demotivate people to farm bg points.

The whole idea of locking 95% MS income into pvp content while you need them to upgrade pve stuff is beyond absurd.

GC3-4 needs 70 TS

24TS cost (beside other tradeable mats) 16MS

So we need 48MS to go only GC3-4

Guess we have to run into 6v6 with pve or crap pvp gear and mess the pvp experience to the geared pvpers just to get our pve gear done. And then there are the 'PvE geared noobs ruining our battlegrounds' which PvErs are actually forced into. *sigh*

[Nemises]

49 minutes ago, SilentOne said:

Guess we have to run into 6v6 with pve or crap pvp gear and mess the pvp experience to the geared pvpers just to get our pve gear done. And then there are the 'PvE geared noobs ruining our battlegrounds' which PvErs are actually forced into. *sigh*

So let's do it all together, start running bgs with crap geared characters...

... So cool I have a pvp geared guy in the party, that will crash the opponents...

... oh no, the opponents have two good geared guys...

...don't want to read the insults anymore that we (low geared) are ruining ranking plans...

...maybe I can do more... oh wait, why do I deal no dmg to that guy, but he's oneshotting me?...

...how the hell can an aoe-skill have the ability to oneshot people?...

...hm maybe I'm coming back with better gear... oh wait, why do I do battlegrounds in the first place? To get better gear!...

 

Just some thoughts, I share SilentOne's oppinion.

As you may notice, there is a little bit of sarcasm in this post.

 

In general the battleground in NA/EU suffers from different things.

1. Top players are in silver and gold, actually the low and mid elo. There is no way for them (reasonable amount of top players) reaching platin or diamond tear in a season to battle between top players.

2. Low geared players or bad playing players are offended for their decisions in the low elo. That toxicity of already geared players lead to the first problem, because there is no chance to build up a massive amount of players playing bgs and enable a wider elo range. (Note that not every geared player is toxic, this is a false thought. In fact geared players are in the majority friendly, but out of 6 players in the team it only needs 1 toxic to scare away newbies. So somehow it is a community thing to punish the toxic behaviour if NCwest isn't able to act.)

 

Ofc there are many other game based problems with bg, but they aren't changeable for us now. Others are...

 

So now start to flood the bgs with trash geared players and let the hunger games begin!

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Nemises