Celcia

Dropping BnS cause of bad Drop Rates?

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Cherish   

I play games to achieve things like achievements and finding stuff.  I would be really sad if they all just fell in my lap and I didn't have to work for them. 

 

I have the worst luck ever with RNG but everytime I run the instances or whatever to get the outfits I always tell myself **this is the run**.  If it isn't then I say so what .......... next time.

 

Its sad you are quitting over something like lack of costume drops :(

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You farm those outfits for the prestige of getting them. Whether it was through luck or determination. If you just got that outfit as a quest reward for killing the boss once, and so did absolutely everyone else, wouldn't it feel stupid wearing that outfit?

 

People can get lucky and get it on the first one or two runs, but most don't because the drop rate isn't good. Having that outfit means you farmed for it (or your luck is crazy good, either way) and means that it MEANS something that you're wearing it. If you don't want to farm for them, don't. They're literally not needed at all, and that means that it'll be more exclusive for the people that stick through it. I don't see the point in complaining. You can play without stopping to farm those at all.

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Enamour   
13 minutes ago, Shaila89 said:

I would think a 5-15% chance to get an outfit on a wheel would be nice, and 5-10% in a dungeon. Not asking for it to be 100% but a decent and fair chance is better than what they have now.

 

See it would be nice if there were actually a table we could look at to see percentages. I feel that things like wheel outfits are relatively easy to get but that would be highly biased as it's only from my personal experiences across a few alts. I could just be lucky and hit that 1% over and over or I could just be average in terms of success rate and just hit the 10% mark or something.

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Xiuyu   
10 minutes ago, Cherish said:

I play games to achieve things like achievements and finding stuff.  I would be really sad if they all just fell in my lap and I didn't have to work for them. 

 

I have the worst luck ever with RNG but everytime I run the instances or whatever to get the outfits I always tell myself **this is the run**.  If it isn't then I say so what .......... next time.

 

Its sad you are quitting over something like lack of costume drops :(

So, you would rather not get the outfits or weapons at all?

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skyy   

What else are you going to do with your time? It's more rewarding when you finally get what you want! :D

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My main problem is venture tokens. they're so *cricket*ing rare, you can do all your dailies on 3 45's every day and see a single green one after 2 weeks..

Like.. seriously what's the point in even having them in the game then?  i thought that was the reason putting things like inventory expansion in the cash shop, so you know. "Oh hey  i got a venture token or 2 i can upgrade my inventory. while i spend ncoins on costumes."

not

"Sweet god, i've found the holy grail the lance of longinous and the akoshik records but a venture token!? find a different patsy for your treasure hunt!"

 

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TopKEK   

It's best not to think about it and just think about something else entirely when farming for anything, especially costumes. 

 

I mean I've had to farm 100+ essences to complete deva set but that felt shorter than I expected when I actually got the fully set (I got 2 costumes out of it... which I didn't expect). At best, yer worst enemy is the auction for costumes. Wheel costumes I stacked essences for, made it feel less daunting. Weapon and accessory upgrading wise... auction battle... everything else seemed fine in terms of RNG but that's my experience so far. 

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noctred   
4 hours ago, Celcia said:

Took 60+ runs to get the Red Mask. 70+ runs to get the Stinger outfit. 40+ for Pugilist. and im starting to near 30+ for Infinite Challenge (and Dreadtide Arena is NOT a fast fight). Ive read reports of others that have even had it worse than me. At some point you really have to question "Is this worth it?" and I feel I should have asked myself this LONG ago.

 

Those numbers are basically a few days of farming per costume, at worst. If you're threatening to quit over that then MMO's probably aren't for you - several other games require a significantly higher time investment for desirable cosmetics.

 

Nothing to complain about here IMO.

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Topic is just ...... and i think u shouldnt play MMO if u want to  get everything so easy. There is no achievment feeling for it.that feeling when u run 100+ runs for costume and when u get it ^^.i guess u will never understand it.   p .s 1 of my clan memmber takes 3 hours of game to get infinite challange outfit for a whole week .And i dont see him whining about it. And yes he is KFM :D

Edited by AlterNatiVe

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I get what he's saying honestly.

I mean everyone here has played mmo's and everyone has done the long sweet grind for somehting or another.

but there is a point where it's too far, or it's not engaging enough.

Like yes i have no qualms doing at level content that gives me exp, engages me and challenges me, then rewards me for my difficult work.

But.. farming a low level dungeon for 3+ hours of run in, skip everything kill boss.

that's hardly fun, it's monotonous, and there is a point in games where farming goes to far,

particularly with chinese/korean games. Take tera for example, when they announce a new patch you have to spend  time from announcement all the way to the new patch farming crafting mats to be ready for the patch. Which is gratuitous.

I think dungeon currencies are handy for jsut that fact. and thats why rep grinds -work- in games. youre doing different crap while trying to get that one outfit or item.

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Xiuyu   
54 minutes ago, skyy said:

What else are you going to do with your time? It's more rewarding when you finally get what you want! :D

Play games that can provide fun instead of trying to get us to grind forever.

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I quit after trying 150 times to just get the red mask. I avoided Korean games for this exact reason and swore I wouldn't get burned again, but I gave this game the benefit of the doubt because they said they wanted to "Westernize" it and make it suitable for the target market, when in reality, as far as I can tell they did the exact opposite.

 

Here's the thing about RNG, RNG is fine, it can prolong a game, the difference between a collection of items that drop in an average of 2 times versus 10 times is a factor of 5. That's effective lengthening. RNG works better when it's masked, MORE but smaller RNG. If there was actually a lot to collect and took maybe a third of the time to get pieces to play around with, I wouldn't complain, especially if the idea of a lengthy grind is divided into smaller grinds that come together as a whole. That way, you can feel some sort of progression. There's some psychology behind the allowance for RNG before it becomes a problem, but of course, that differs between people and cultures, but from personal experience with games and game communities, small total goals with <1% success rates are not an attractive Western design.

 

And as such, as much as I wanted to love and support this game, i just couldn't. If before 25 I'm already wanting to bang my head against the wall, I know I'm not looking forward to any type of end-game systems they have in mind to keep me "interested" and playing.

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I like how people just want things given to them. The minute they have to actually work to get some achievement or in-game item, they quit and chalk it up to the game just being bad. That's the difference in mentality, I suppose. I see it all the time with my generation and younger. If you're going to quit because of something as simple as drop-rates, which honestly isn't even that bad compared to a lot of other MMORPGS out there, then please don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's ashamed we lose people over such small non-issues, but I'd rather have positive thinkers and strong-willed people in this community.

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4 minutes ago, CrypticEgo said:

I like how people just want things given to them. The minute they have to actually work to get some achievement or in-game item, they quit and chalk it up to the game just being bad. That's the difference in mentality, I suppose. I see it all the time with my generation and younger. If you're going to quit because of something as simple as drop-rates, which honestly isn't even that bad compared to a lot of other MMORPGS out there, then please don't let the door hit you on the way out. It's ashamed we lose people over such small non-issues, but I'd rather have positive thinkers and strong-willed people in this community.

Don't be generic. People play games to enjoy it. There's nothing enjoyable about 150+ times for one small visual items, a process that is repeated whenever you want something else. News flash, it is gratifying to be rewarded for your work, and not by trying 200 times to get something and watching someone else walk in and get it on their 2nd try and you never getting it due to how heavily luck-based it (and the rest of your systems are). RNG is a wonderful tool for prolonging a game and even making it interesting. Being unable to control yourself with ridiculous RNG is a sign of a poor designer who knows no other way to keep a player's interest.

 

EDIT: It's not a good idea to keep telling willing supporters to "just leave", the business doesn't want that. It's possible to strike a good balance between design and RNG elements, something they clearly did not do simply because the game was made for a market very different than our own.

Edited by SikariMist

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Pesto   

ya, you see, us OGs, we had to live through an era where grinding had a different meaning.

 

have you tried to get items off world boss monsters that spawn once every hour or so, with a drop rate of 0.01%, when everyone else on the server is fighting you for it?

oh the joys of ragnarok online

 

 

in other words, no, the drop rate of VANITY ITEMS in this game does not bother me.

because i can still function competitively without

Edited by Pesto

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11 minutes ago, Pesto said:

ya, you see, us OGs, we had to live through an era where grinding had a different meaning.

 

have you tried to get items off world boss monsters that spawn once every hour or so, with a drop rate of 0.01%, when everyone else on the server is fighting you for it?

oh the joys of ragnarok online

 

 

in other words, no, the drop rate of VANITY ITEMS in this game does not bother me.

because i can still function competitively without

Living through the era of terrible new(ish) genre design and being vanity has little to do with anything. While I didn't play any late 90's online games, I had my fair share of FFXI grinding. Having played games with grinding doesn't mean it's an acceptable design for current markets. Being smug and throwing your "back in may day" narratives doesn't do anything for an inevitable sink of the game's population which will then spawn issues you will probably care more about. I've seen this happen time and time and time again from games i wanted to care about, but no one learns and the hardcore fanboys (assuming I'm a soft-core fanboy usually, more realistic) copy and paste tiresome defenses that does the game and it's community no good.

 

Games like this unfortunately survive off of little carrots, and vanities are some of those carrots. If the carrots stop becoming attractive because they're hung too far out, people don't keep chasing harder, they just stop and say screw it. Striking that balance is the job of these publishers. They did not strike that balance here. There's nothing entirely WRONG with it, but it is a mistake, and not necessary to defense blindly, because ultimately each person telling everyone to just leave is hurting themselves and the game.

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Cherish   
2 hours ago, Xiuyu said:

So, you would rather not get the outfits or weapons at all?

 

Well you see here is the thing, sooner or later RNG works in your favour so you will get the items eventually.  It's all about patience and just doing what needs to be done.  Its a bit like having to go to work everyday, you don't really want to go but you have to because you know usually after 7 days you will get paid and after 12 months you will get holidays etc.  Work isn't rng because its a guarantee but you still have to work that seven days and twelve months before you get the rewards. 

 

I have every outfit on my main character just by being patient and doing what needs to be done :D

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Sinth   
1 hour ago, SikariMist said:

I quit after trying 150 times to just get the red mask. I avoided Korean games for this exact reason and swore I wouldn't get burned again, but I gave this game the benefit of the doubt because they said they wanted to "Westernize" it and make it suitable for the target market, when in reality, as far as I can tell they did the exact opposite.

 

 

I feel bad for some people, decided to give it a few runs before dailies reset and got the mask after 5 runs.

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Devs just can't win. Put in items that can only be gained by clearing difficult content and people whine because not everyone can get it. Put it in a place where everyone has a chance at getting it eventually and someone else complains that it's unfair because every item can't be had in a few days. The game has only been out a month and so many are whining because they don't have every cosmetic available. Do you cry when you play Monopoly with the family and the dice don't go in your favor?

 

Of all the things to complain about with this title, this is not one of them. Yes, if this is really too difficult for you, please quit, because you're just not going to have fun. I've literally never said this before, but OP, you've brought it out in me: http://www.hellokittyonline.com/  The perfect game that you never knew existed, because easy mode is what you crave. Enjoy yourself.

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Rottmer   

Asian RPGs and MMOs aren't about instant gratification to get you hooked. You get hooked in a different manner entirely, be it the combat, the costumes and collecting, the pvp, etc etc. The game is fine as it is, and in no way rigged, and just because the grind starts earlier or later does not make it any different than any other game. If it started earlier, at least you know whether or not you want to put up with it and quit while you are ahead. If it starts later, you might feel like you wasted all of your time for a "rigged" system. These games are not meant for every person, and that's okay. Breaks are helpful, because chances are that you don't NEED whatever you are grinding out. If it gets overwhelming? Just take a break, do something else, come back later and have another go at it. You'd be surprised how less frustrating it gets. 

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Rawrzori   

Sofar i'm fine with the drop rates. Got pretty much every costume i wanted in lower then 50 runs/spins of the wheel. Got especially lucky with the secret agent drop from the talus engineer corp. Only 7 runs and it dropped (not to mention in the 5 daily runs after that got another 2. It's like if you already have something they after that throw it in your face).

 

The one costume that eludes me sofar is the lady nightshade drop from yehara's mirage, but that one is supposed to be rare ... All the more reason i want it. I don't farm 3 hours straight because thats to boring but everyday just go in a few times. It will drop eventually and i'm in no hurry.

 

On the other side you can only wear 1 costume everything after that is only for the hording greed (which i have myself aswell, i do not judge). All in all maybe the one tedious drop i have to get now is from brightstone ruins, but thats pretty much only tedious because of the bidding system. I'm most likely gonna bleed gold as solo player.

 

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Pesto   
2 hours ago, SikariMist said:

Living through the era of terrible new(ish) genre design and being vanity has little to do with anything. While I didn't play any late 90's online games, I had my fair share of FFXI grinding. Having played games with grinding doesn't mean it's an acceptable design for current markets. Being smug and throwing your "back in may day" narratives doesn't do anything for an inevitable sink of the game's population which will then spawn issues you will probably care more about. I've seen this happen time and time and time again from games i wanted to care about, but no one learns and the hardcore fanboys (assuming I'm a soft-core fanboy usually, more realistic) copy and paste tiresome defenses that does the game and it's community no good.

 

Games like this unfortunately survive off of little carrots, and vanities are some of those carrots. If the carrots stop becoming attractive because they're hung too far out, people don't keep chasing harder, they just stop and say screw it. Striking that balance is the job of these publishers. They did not strike that balance here. There's nothing entirely WRONG with it, but it is a mistake, and not necessary to defense blindly, because ultimately each person telling everyone to just leave is hurting themselves and the game.

this was the question

"Anyone else getting discouraged at these abysmal drop rates?  "

my answer was

no, because it was worse back in the days when things first started, so it doesn't bother me at all.

my response was more on topic to the original post than your entire reply

 

you want to talk about how "most people" nowadays dont like it?

look at this thread, how many people do you see discontent with the drop rates

 

how many think it's fine?

 

your opinion, is not everyone's opinion. 

Edited by Pesto

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Keawen   

Today RNG has been nice to both my sin and my fm.FM got blight bangle on 2nd run of narrows and blight necklace on 1st and sin got full set of soul shield from scorpion in scorched sands in like 30minutes.

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6 hours ago, Xievie said:

I think Blade and Soul is actually really forgiving compared to other games. 30 Dreadtide runs is nothing to me after playing other games with RNG that make me sick in the stomach like Vindictus

 

can confirm

 

sometimes the RNG for getting upgrade weapons or whatever starts to get to me after a day of opening every single weapon in existence BUT the one i need.

 

for instance, my BD was sitting on 5 stalker daggers, 9 stalker swords, 3 stalker axes, 6 or 7 of whatever the warlock weapon is called, 4 pairs of stalker fists, 6 stalker bangles, and 14 stalker staves before i gave up and just bought a stalker lynblade on my main and mailed it to myself lol. I was starting to get frustrated.

 

but then i remembered that I played vindictus almost constantly since its closed beta release up until about a year ago, and saw 1 uncommon drop, and 1 rare one, in my entire career as a player...and that most of the high end sets required multiple rare drops to even craft.

 

i guess this isnt so bad. kind of wish we could all just get geared up fast and beat on each other though.

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AttacKat   
8 hours ago, SikariMist said:

I quit after trying 150 times to just get the red mask.

...

Here's the thing about RNG, RNG is fine, it can prolong a game, the difference between a collection of items that drop in an average of 2 times versus 10 times is a factor of 5. That's effective lengthening. RNG works better when it's masked, MORE but smaller RNG. If there was actually a lot to collect and took maybe a third of the time to get pieces to play around with, I wouldn't complain, especially if the idea of a lengthy grind is divided into smaller grinds that come together as a whole. That way, you can feel some sort of progression. There's some psychology behind the allowance for RNG before it becomes a problem, but of course, that differs between people and cultures, but from personal experience with games and game communities, small total goals with <1% success rates are not an attractive Western design.

 

You see, that is the thing. I had to accept this when I was playing FF14 ARR. I myself have gotten an clothing item in FF14 ARR on my 2nd tried, and I ran with a guy who had done over 200 runs. 

 

At one of the patches, FF14 ARR's player base started to have major complains about a certain weapon upgrade crystal due to almost non-existing drop rate. The Director himself did a "promote" lives stream to farm a certain item, and he only got 1 out of 40-50 runs, and you need to gather something like 20 of it, then you have 6-8 kind to collect. So you are looking at at best 1K runs just for 1 type. In the end, his remark was "the drop rate is fine for the WHOLE player base."

 

IME my worst case has been close to 25 boxes for a purple weapon, as well as gotten it on my 1st try. RNG is just that, RNG. But the one thing everyone needs to understand is that RNG isn't just you. It is the whole player base. So that 25 runs + 1 runs makes it 1:13, well within the 5%~10% drop rate as some have suggested, and we do not even know what the actually % is for a given item.

 

Edited by AttacKat

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