yudhister

Glided Square Diamond Pouch ( no information provided)

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Posted (edited)

@yudhisterThanks for the info.
It's not much higher then my triangle one [1.5k Defence] compared to the cost. Not worth crafting I feel.

also to note before the update on crafts, I remember these gems pouches showed it clearly one is ap the ther was defence. This new one just says diamond and diamond which also confused me at first thinking it was now changed to be ap only? And I also do feel it not labeled well.

Edited by LaraKelly

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@LaraKelly thank you. Finally someone who understands how it should be. Thank god you said that cause i was thinking maybe i am going insane since no one seems to get my simple logic and everyone keeps telling me to google and research. (which i did btw and found nothing)

 

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@Nihilu yeah i know of those TOI, tried that and failed hard cause 300 ping and the enemies there seem to have unlimited cc and resist after the 6th rank. Also i have a clan and a discord but people are busy with work and i don't want to trouble them at every single step ofc. Also most people give the info that is obvious in some ways and can be found with most guides on youtube and stuff. So i agree people help but many times even they don't know beyond certain boundaries. Being helpful and actually helping someone are 2 different things. Also you wait 6 months to get 20-30 moonstones while stuff that is crafted needs tons. So say in 10 years i would have enough to craft a really good quality item? 

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Nihilu   
3 hours ago, yudhister said:

@Nihilu yeah i know of those TOI, tried that and failed hard cause 300 ping and the enemies there seem to have unlimited cc and resist after the 6th rank. Also i have a clan and a discord but people are busy with work and i don't want to trouble them at every single step ofc. Also most people give the info that is obvious in some ways and can be found with most guides on youtube and stuff. So i agree people help but many times even they don't know beyond certain boundaries. Being helpful and actually helping someone are 2 different things. Also you wait 6 months to get 20-30 moonstones while stuff that is crafted needs tons. So say in 10 years i would have enough to craft a really good quality item? 

I in no means meant that was a good farming spot I was just trying to think of any source that could be a source for moonstones.  As it is mostly PvP, I wanted to try and give a few other areas that they could be obtained.

 

Trying to be of help can can be difficult at times.  Without actually knowing the full extent of players knowledge on the game the most basic info get stated first, kind of like troubleshooting computer issues.  Each player also have a different gaming style, I horde all my own mats m, and buy only a few things off the market. But some players will look at what drops Elysian orbs, say they are about the same as moonstones so I can sell these and buy moonstones.  Or look for best gold options as even if you can farm a mat, if you can farm the gold to buy the mat faster or more efficiently, then you are basically farming the mat.  

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On 5/20/2019 at 12:42 AM, yudhister said:

so you are saying that it is my fault for spending time and not talking to people and not taking another hour of my time from the already 10 hours i give to this game chatting on faction chat for info? it's not about the AP btw also hongmoon gem ofc is the best one but the diamond hongmoon cannot be used it any upgrade after that so makes no difference. 

Yes it is your fault, Took me few seconds to find information about Pouch by Typing in Google.

ln4myIH.png

Also Hongmoon Gem is Upgradable you can also salvage and/or send it to your Alts. While Crafted Gem Once equipped you cannot Upgrade you cannot mail it to your alts and you cannot salvage it. it's useless, The money and materials that you spent into crafting you could have easily made few Octagon if not more and while Square Diamond might be max for now... in future it will be upgradable to a higher stage.

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On 5/20/2019 at 7:20 PM, yudhister said:

@MassiveEgo agreed i blundered but just curious as to whether anyone even gets the point i am trying to make. Why is that defense there in the pouch in the first place in a game where people are obsessed with ap to the point that they won't take anyone to raids and parties without certain ap.

It's there so you can have a chance to get something useless, obviously. If you only got good things which benefit you, there wouldn't be enough of a power hunger to make you invest into their troves. Trove is an event where you give NC a lot of money and you get goodies for upgrading your gear. That's my theory at least.

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Astarae   
On 5/20/2019 at 5:03 PM, yudhister said:

@Astarae yup totally agree the place is filled with bots or

One issue on your response -- where do people get the idea that "bots" are filling ANYWHERE? (Note this isn't so much addressed to you as anyone who mis-uses that term).

 

First off, an actual AI that plays the game for you (a bot), would be a huge undertaking -- and give we just went off of XIGNCODE3 (the anti cheat/anti-program) engine there is no way there would be the time or demand for an actual bot that could play BnS.  Now whales -- another matter, people hanging around 'afk' (away from keyboard) -- those are common place events...but neither of those is a bot.  Technically in the AI field a bot is a machine programmed to do some task because they can work 24x7 just like a machine! :giggle:.  More loosely defined in games is an external program that would play the game by itself to do low level tasks like farming.  Given that most of the BnS world isn't build on any 'grid', even navigating -- getting a bot to walk or travel to some point would be a non-trival task.  The closest thing to a bot might be something like a 'macro' -- but it would be very difficult to write a macro that has even the basic functionality of the in-game's 'simple' (I call it 'auto' or 'automatic') mode.  Why?... because 'simple' mode can "access" your characters current state and the state of the surrounding environment.  Have you looked what simple mode does (you can see the behaviors off of your s_K_ills page.  It does things based on your status -- like if you have a buff -- do 1 thing, else if something else is going on -- do another thing.  A macro can't tell when you have a buff -- it can't make "decisions" based on what's going on.   So really, without the "hooks" (points where information or status can be read)  that simple mode has access to and uses -- you can't have a really good "automatic" mode macro.  

 

Anyway to people in general, if you really think someone is using a 'bot' of some sort, theoretically you are supposed to

report them -- though I'd more wanna get to know how they make things work -- do they use an AI 'seeing' program to navigate the world?  Etc...  More likely is they have some complex macros on a keyboard that a human can activate based on their knowledge of whats going on around them -- but it will be hard for them to be as good or accurate about the state of things around them as the 'simple' mode has can.  Simple mode doesn't seem to do a good job for classes that require alot of manual typing skill/speed to do well.  But classes that have 1 dominant attack sequence can be automated reasonably well.

 

Really for a chance of making something useful for all classes in the game, I wish they'd let players add their own 'simple/auto' mode, then they might have something better than that which doesn't work for them.  Anyway, if someone is really good about knowing what state they are in, then macros can give them an edge.  But an actual 'bot'?   I think this game is  too complex to make development of a real bot worth it.  I certainly wouldn't say it would be impossible to develop, but just that it wouldn't be easy and I would find it hard for someone to justify the development costs.

 

And now -- back to our regularly scheduled ranting and raving!   :giggle:. .

 

 

 

 

 

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On 5/21/2019 at 9:27 AM, yudhister said:

@LaraKelly thank you. Finally someone who understands how it should be. Thank god you said that cause i was thinking maybe i am going insane since no one seems to get my simple logic and everyone keeps telling me to google and research. (which i did btw and found nothing)

 

Hmm, found this link with a quick search. Read a few post. We all get your logic but at the same time information is always out there as I'm sure this has been complained about before.

 

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Hanuku   
Posted (edited)

I feel I understand OP's point. I know others do but whatever. For OP, the game itself should contain the basic info. I mean, BASIC info. The game shouldn't tell you how to work a rotation or best places to farm, but when one brings up a craft guild menu and only sees something like

 

[Diamond] [%]

[Diamond] [%]

 

...and no other info about it, I believe that this is basic info people shouldn't need to look for outside of the game. Yes, sure, on lack of in-game info, one is forced to look outside. But should that be the norm? Should we let this slip and toss it into the same wagon as the whole "know a dungeon like the back of your hand before setting foot in it for the very first time" thing? I mean, again, OP is not asking how to best deal with the mechs on 'X' dungeon, nor how to better dps on his class. Those are things the game shouldn't tell about as they are supposed to be personal findings. OP just needed to know what the heck the game was displaying without needing to use a search engine or ask someone else for it, because you shouldn't need to fire up a search engine or ask others for every bit of info about this or that. It makes a game tedious and not fun. So, I do feel this kind of info should already be in the game. Sadly it's not, and we get to this thread as a result.

 

tl:dr: There are things one should either find oneself or ask others/search about. But there are other things I and maybe one or two players out there feel the game itself should tell up front.

 

Anyway, this is my opinion. We all know the current "workaround" to this is to search, and many posters have already said it so I don't need to say it myself. But I feel some may be missing the point that this is a request to have info added to the game for the reasons I mentioned.

 

EDIT: Let me add, I also agree that if OP didn't have all the info he needed, he should have stopped before doing the craft and until he had all the info he needed. The wise does not test the depth of the river with both feet, after all. But that's a different part of this thread and not the thing I'm focusing on.

Edited by Hanuku

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On 19/5/2019 at 9:00 PM, yudhister said:

Hey
So i am playing Blade and soul and am a relatively new player. I spent money on a premium account and coins too for some event stuff. I really love and appreciate the game. But I spent a lot of time and gold into making a Glided Square Diamond Pouch from the radiant ring and got a defense one. It is outrageous and I am feeling betrayed and sad not because it turned out to be a defense but the cause of the time and gold I spent on it. I don't mind grinding and spending time but this feels like i am being made a fool of since that information is provided nowhere in the game that i could get one of those. 
I figured it would give a simple AP one like you see in the transmute section. I ofc understand that it has been made that way so people can't abuse it and farm tons of gold and stuff but what i have an issue with is that information is nowhere there. Hardcore gaming is something where you make mistakes and learn but this is just irritating now. 
I feel disrespected and feel like i wasted my time and money.  

Send a ticket to support and see if they can revert the situtation for you, because you need to know 2 things about this pouches

 

1.- Gem you get is not HONGMOON, meaning you won't be able to upgrade it

2.- There is RNG and you can get different stats than AP.

 

So if I were you, I would send a ticket to support and not say anything about defense, just that you didn't see the gem isn't hongmoon and that you spent irl money to gather materials and gold to craft it thinking that you would get the real thing. Maybe if you are lucky they will undo the process and you recover your stuff.

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Astarae   
7 hours ago, Hanuku said:

I feel I understand OP's point. I know others do but whatever. For OP, the game itself should contain the basic info. I mean, BASIC info. The game shouldn't tell you how to work a rotation ...

Yes...it should.  A rotation is the most basic thing you need to know about your class.  There is a 'training room'[sic] that lets you learn how to press a button: 

 

   "Here, notice your rm-killemdead button is on your right mouse button.  Now practice pressing your rm button against your training dummy: click on right-mouse, (1), and now click again...(2)!  Congratulations, here is your reward... vs. here's an advanced technique...  press the buttons you see on the screen (LM-RM-LM-RM-4-LM-RM-LM-RM-shift-c).  After the light goes on you have .9 seconds to follow up but only when they light up.  You have a .1 second window to press each one, but only after they light up, but pushing down any button will invalidate the the whole sequence."    

 

The above never gets used again and is not part of a dungeon rotation -- even "FFXIII, Lightning returns" where you had to do something like execute a block within a 120ms  window to execute a perfect block (or 150ms if you had defeated the 2nd hardest boss in the game) and got the 30ms bonus in hard-mode).  Of course in FF, those were local timings, so 150ms was a real 150ms, not 150ms adjusted by your variable server RTT (RoundTripTime).  

 

Now,  do you know something considered most basic to your class -- your rotation? or how each of your skills work in in combination with other classes' skills?  nope.  How about how when you are simpleton mode but are told your attempt to use some key happens to be same slot / key as party sheath and is killing everyone randomly, so please turn off party sheath -- which you do  until next boss, where you are yelled at for not casting party sheath to save everyone, but can't reconfig now, because you are in battle. 

 

Later even with sheath on, you can't use it if you are in SIMPLE mode:  Of course everyone know know that from their training time with SIMPLE mode that to cast frost sheath you have to switch into frost mode which is not possible in SIMPLE mode which is non-configurably bound to your right-mouse, thus disabling any frost mode skills.  Of course with all the practice in the training room you'd know that, right?....er...oh *snap*!  forgot -- can't train w/actual combat options in the "training"[sic] room.  If more people had trained with it, there would likely have been more call for making a SIMPLE-mode

attack just a another attack key rather than a separate mode.

 

7 hours ago, Hanuku said:

or best places to farm, but when one brings up a craft guild menu and only sees something like

EDIT: Let me add, I also agree that if OP didn't have all the info he needed, he should have stopped before doing the craft and until he had all the info he needed. The wise does not test the depth of the river with both feet...

Instead, they are caught by the mob pursuing them, killed by the flames from the forest fire on their tail or, in BnS, more likely, kicked from the group for being "afk" while they were looking up whatever it was that they needed.

 

Uh...yeah...no time pressures in this game... :playdumb: :giggle:

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Hanuku   
1 hour ago, Astarae said:

Yes...it should.  A rotation is the most basic thing you need to know about your class.  There is a 'training room'[sic] that lets you learn how to press a button: 

 

   "Here, notice your rm-killemdead button is on your right mouse button.  Now practice pressing your rm button against your training dummy: click on right-mouse, (1), and now click again...(2)!  Congratulations, here is your reward... vs. here's an advanced technique...  press the buttons you see on the screen (LM-RM-LM-RM-4-LM-RM-LM-RM-shift-c).  After the light goes on you have .9 seconds to follow up but only when they light up.  You have a .1 second window to press each one, but only after they light up, but pushing down any button will invalidate the the whole sequence."    

 

The above never gets used again and is not part of a dungeon rotation -- even "FFXIII, Lightning returns" where you had to do something like execute a block within a 120ms  window to execute a perfect block (or 150ms if you had defeated the 2nd hardest boss in the game) and got the 30ms bonus in hard-mode).  Of course in FF, those were local timings, so 150ms was a real 150ms, not 150ms adjusted by your variable server RTT (RoundTripTime).  

 

Now,  do you know something considered most basic to your class -- your rotation? or how each of your skills work in in combination with other classes' skills?  nope.  How about how when you are simpleton mode but are told your attempt to use some key happens to be same slot / key as party sheath and is killing everyone randomly, so please turn off party sheath -- which you do  until next boss, where you are yelled at for not casting party sheath to save everyone, but can't reconfig now, because you are in battle. 

 

Later even with sheath on, you can't use it if you are in SIMPLE mode:  Of course everyone know know that from their training time with SIMPLE mode that to cast frost sheath you have to switch into frost mode which is not possible in SIMPLE mode which is non-configurably bound to your right-mouse, thus disabling any frost mode skills.  Of course with all the practice in the training room you'd know that, right?....er...oh *snap*!  forgot -- can't train w/actual combat options in the "training"[sic] room.  If more people had trained with it, there would likely have been more call for making a SIMPLE-mode

attack just a another attack key rather than a separate mode.

 

Instead, they are caught by the mob pursuing them, killed by the flames from the forest fire on their tail or, in BnS, more likely, kicked from the group for being "afk" while they were looking up whatever it was that they needed.

 

Uh...yeah...no time pressures in this game... :playdumb: :giggle:

This isn't really part of the thread and I didn't really understand everything you said, but let me clear something out. I have a simple mode fire FM that I use to farm low tier dailies, so I have my share of experience with it. Not much expertise but enough to at least answer some things. So, do you know you can access all FM frost mode skills while using simple mode? In fact, of the classes I have played, I have been able to manually access nearly all skills the regular way with simple mode on. And while several classes do lower dps with it on, I don't know of any case of it interfering in any other aspects of the gameplay, like defense or utility skills being negated or whatever. Simple mode replaces what's on your RMB with a set of skills, which also usually includes what was initially alone in that button. It doesn't touch anything else on your configuration. The only variant case is with FM and it's difference from other classes is a single key.

 

In the case of FM, since RMB becomes simple mode's skill set, [F] key is modified into a frost switch that remains always available to use until something else occupies the [F] prompt, like a KD recovery or some other special action, then it goes back to being a frost switch. So by pressing F in simple mode, you switch to frost in the same way you do with RMB in normal mode. So a simple mode FM has no excuse to not use any frost skills like bubble and sheath when required. Also, FM's simple mode automatically switches between both modes because it's "rotation" uses the basic fire and ice palm attacks, so you don't even need to press [F] if you release RMB when at frost stance.

 

Now to bring this into this thread and make it more on track with it, the cool thing about simple mode and skills in general is that (regardless of the one or two wrong descriptions)  the devs made it or tried to make it so you don't need to seek outside help to know what it all does. While on the topic of the thread, gem crafting doesn't completely explain what it's full result would be. And this is the difference I'm pointing out.

 

As for the part about the game teaching you rotations? I'd still say that no to that, at least in my opinion. Learning some things that the game doesn't intentionally teach you is a big part of gaming as a form of entertainment. To make the player involve himself/herself into the game's details by practicing and using either trial and error or seeking help from others who have already passed that part of the game experience has been an old and important part of what gaming is. So the game should just limit itself to tell you what each part does, explain it well, and let players connect the dots by themselves. So in short, not teaching you a correct rotation should be an intended omission, but not telling you the full result of your crafting effort shouldn't be allowed.

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Astarae   

You said -- that the game shouldn't teach [tell] how to work your class rotation:

19 hours ago, Hanuku said:
22 hours ago, Astarae said:
On 5/22/2019 at 9:10 AM, Hanuku said:

...the game itself should contain the basic info. I mean, BASIC info. The game shouldn't tell you how to work a rotation...

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Astara:   Yes...it should.  A rotation is the most basic thing you need to know about your class. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hanuku: This isn't really part of the thread...

If you are putting in "BASIC" info, then in the training room, it SHOULD

teach you the basics of your class -- specifically your "rotations".


This is my first point (not so well said, but hopefully direct enough to get what I mean across...(sigh)  How to play your class is among the most basic things a character *needs* to know.

 

This isn't meant to detract from anything else you said...but when we talk about putting in basic stuff, that has to include rotations.

 

My, perhaps poorly constructed, analogous example has to do with a specific

training exercise for FM's that has to be one of the most worthless bits of training -- as it involves synchronizing your timing to the server doing things that is worthless when you factor in lag time and the fact that you can't synchronize to a randomly

changing ping-time, especially not to a sub-second resolution as displayed by lights flickering across the needed keys.  

 

So they teach you *some things*, that might be useful if it has anything to do with anything -- and adding salt to the wound -- they don't break it down to explain how you can even start to synchronize.

 

There are tons of other things where they don't give enough info, I agree, and there are tons of places where the wording is ambiguous at best, and downright misleading at worst.

 

When you are talking about what gems you get out of crafting, I had nearly the exact same issue in *buying* "the wrong" gems -- because I didn't get that I couldn't upgrade them.  That they looked exactly the same -- didn't alert me to the fact that I couldn't use them in upgrades (which had been the sole reason I had bought them).

 

Later, in upgrading an accessory, It said 2 things.  This item gives you a 6% bonus on your bullet storm.  Then later, it also said that this item enhances way of the undertaker (which in gunner class had more in common with 'shadow' vs. destruction which has  more to do with 'fire').  What I didn't realize and what the text didn't say was that it ***only*** was good for enhancing powers of those

following the undertaker path -- which, if I had known, would have let me know I couldn't use it!!!   But that wasn't the case.  While I was able, to revert that and go with something for my 'path', I was also told that it would be a one time exception, which also really annoys me -- since it was the lack of sufficient text or hints from NCSoft/West, that would have let me know it was the wrong choice for me.

 

So its NOT just the lack of basic info (which is  a serious problem) but also when they do have info, it may be misleading and NC'x' doesn't even take responsibility for the misleading text, but instead you are made to feel like it was your fault for not getting it right.  Thanks!

 

And at the end of my last note, I was commenting on how so often I feel under time pressure and constraints -- where if I don 't move fast, I lose "something", so it's rare that I feel I have the time to do full research -- compounding that problem is that info you might find from 2-3  years ago is likely dreadfully outdated.  

:shy:

 

Hope I explained a bit better about what I meant....

 

Astara

 

 

 

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Hanuku   

@Astarae I understand it a bit better. But as people have different opinions, you have yours and I have mine. So while I may not share with you on a game telling it's players what's the best rotation for their class, I totally respect your view on it. I simply feel that a rotation should be something that comes from player research and not given by the game itself, because as I said before, part of the fun in a game like this is to discover things both in the field and within the character.

 

But again, it's just how I see things. Nothing wrong with your way nor with mine.

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Astarae   
1 hour ago, Hanuku said:

@Astarae I understand it a bit better. But as people have different opinions, you have yours and I have mine. So while I may not share with you on a game telling it's players what's the best rotation for their class, I totally respect your view on it. I simply feel that a rotation should be something that comes from player research....

Too bad there's no training room that allows you setup conditions as they would exist in the dungeon or on a raid and test various combinations.  No...the game has worked to disallow users exploring and testing things themselves.  You can't test your combos among various options and certainly can't check how much damage is done using the same  "firing pattern" between one setup and the next.

 

If it only came from individual player research, it might be interesting, but its not -- it becomes handed down "lore" where anyone who tests or tries things out that are different is ridiculed and/or penalized.  Just like when I wanted to explorer in ET and was told I was insane, and kicked from a clan for such heretical ideas.  So what if we didn't have videos to watch and memorize?  So what if no one knew what was out there?  But people get very upset if they haven't seen "the video" showing them how to run a dungeon, or even -- do their rotation.  

 

How is that better?  It was in rising trolls, that my questions got met with silence or derision.  Can you explain how that is a better way to learn?

 

I'm from the school that likes to read game-guides and learn tips from the game writers/developers.  In this game, learning from others becomes toxic -- as others have pointed out in numerous threads -- they get trolled, or lied to, or told wrong information because people think it is funny.  

 

I don't like situations where small numbers of people hold power and lord it over others.  I much prefer dynamics where such people are not allowed to hold power over others -- either by having an advanced character or pretending to have true information.

1 hour ago, Hanuku said:

But again, it's just how I see things. Nothing wrong with your way nor with mine.

At every point, look at the consequences of something being freely available or held by a few insiders.  I see far more people abusing such circumstances than helping others.  Acquiring such information as part of the game can not be evaluated in a vacuum, but must be seen in terms of how it affects others in the game.  Is it divisive or does it bring in a sense of helping others?

 

Anything that contributes to people holding power-over others where those holding the power use it to oppress others, needs to be seen as part of the cause of that dynamic.

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Hanuku   

@Astarae Aren't you exploding this a wee bit too much? It's kind of blowing out of proportion. Anyway still. As I said and as I will say again, I'm keeping my opinion because regardless of your points, I can't agree with yours. It's as simple as that. This doesn't make us enemies. Just two people who like and play the same game but view the meaning of 'basic stuff' in different ways. You want more info while I feel better with a bit less. So as I said before, I don't see flaw in any of these views.

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Astarae   

Don't take my willingness to have strong feelings arguing a point meaning that I have issues with *you* as a person.  Please.  I realize most people get very distressed about disagreement, but *generally* I don't.  Most of the time, I don't remember people's names as I usually pay more attention to what they are saying/writing and how they are saying it.

 

Now admittedly, I start to recognize some people by their writing style , but ask me to remember their name?  That takes alot more time.

 

Besides -- actual grudges take too much energy -- but arguing about something you want -- that makes it's own energy coming out of passion or something I care about.  I wouldn't bother posting if I didn't have emotions and feelings about some of this...

 

However, the behaviors I see coming out of the wrong people having or holding power -- makes for a good case for them never holding power in the real world -- unfortunately, often they do and I don't see things getting better in the immediate future.

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Hanuku   
4 hours ago, Astarae said:

Don't take my willingness to have strong feelings arguing a point meaning that I have issues with *you* as a person.  Please.  I realize most people get very distressed about disagreement, but *generally* I don't.  Most of the time, I don't remember people's names as I usually pay more attention to what they are saying/writing and how they are saying it.

 

Now admittedly, I start to recognize some people by their writing style , but ask me to remember their name?  That takes alot more time.

 

Besides -- actual grudges take too much energy -- but arguing about something you want -- that makes it's own energy coming out of passion or something I care about.  I wouldn't bother posting if I didn't have emotions and feelings about some of this...

 

However, the behaviors I see coming out of the wrong people having or holding power -- makes for a good case for them never holding power in the real world -- unfortunately, often they do and I don't see things getting better in the immediate future.

I have no personal problem either. It's just the whole "people in power" thing felt a bit over board considering the topic. But I'll try to answer that part as well.

 

I don't feel that people are holding information about rotations and dungeon tactics for their own. Quite the contrary I think. Just to grab 5 minutes of fame or to genuinely help others, many rush to post their findings. Usually the first attempts need corrections, which come later from more tested input. But in the end, what we get is a lot of player generated information aimed at helping other players who either started to play later, or those who can't really find it by themselves.

 

This generated this culture that believes all info is out there for the grabbing, and gives no excuses to later players for not seeking it out. So in the name of efficiency and fast runs, discovery of a game's mechanics and character perks by oneself are not too popular in multi player games. There's also the part about being multiplayer and affecting more than you if you fail due to not knowing something others already know.

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