Glided Square Diamond Pouch ( no information provided)

[yudhister]

Hey
So i am playing Blade and soul and am a relatively new player. I spent money on a premium account and coins too for some event stuff. I really love and appreciate the game. But I spent a lot of time and gold into making a Glided Square Diamond Pouch from the radiant ring and got a defense one. It is outrageous and I am feeling betrayed and sad not because it turned out to be a defense but the cause of the time and gold I spent on it. I don't mind grinding and spending time but this feels like i am being made a fool of since that information is provided nowhere in the game that i could get one of those. 
I figured it would give a simple AP one like you see in the transmute section. I ofc understand that it has been made that way so people can't abuse it and farm tons of gold and stuff but what i have an issue with is that information is nowhere there. Hardcore gaming is something where you make mistakes and learn but this is just irritating now. 
I feel disrespected and feel like i wasted my time and money.  

[Puril]

When you hover mouse over the pouch should say/have the icon of 2 different diamonds 1 ap and 1 defense meaning its NOT fixed what it will give rather *chance* of getting  either.

[yudhister]

I did hover the mouse of the pouch it does not specify that the 2 diamonds are different.

This is the link to the image I took.  https://imgur.com/qXRvTpP

Tell me how by seeing this is a new player supposed to know that there is even a diamond with defense since it is nowhere to be seen in the game. Even the transmute one has AP on it. How is that clear information. I don't even mind the ridiculous farm needed to craft them but when you do work hard you get a useless thing for which people in the faction chat are laughing and telling I can never even sell this. I mean I have played hardcore tough games and stuff but the worst is when you are being made a fool out of and you are spending money on the game cause you like the combat and classes and stuff. I really want to support the game but this is not just about this case but constantly about many things in the game. 
 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by yudhister

[SayhaSeer]

12 minutes ago, yudhister said:

I did hover the mouse of the pouch it does not specify that the 2 diamonds are different.

This is the link to the image I took.  https://imgur.com/qXRvTpP

Tell me how by seeing this is a new player supposed to know that there is even a diamond with defense since it is nowhere to be seen in the game. Even the transmute one has AP on it. How is that clear information. I don't even mind the ridiculous farm needed to craft them but when you do work hard you get a useless thing for which people in the faction chat are laughing and telling I can never even sell this. I mean I have played hardcore tough games and stuff but the worst is when you are being made a fool out of and you are spending money on the game cause you like the combat and classes and stuff. I really want to support the game but this is not just about this case but constantly about many things in the game. 
 

 

 

 

Or you should have done research and/or asked people in faction chat/Forums before attempting to craft one. In the URL Link you provided you can see, that the pouch contains 2 Gems and both Gems has a percentage to obtain, So doesn't that automatically tells you that there is a chance you might not get what you want?. 

Even if you got the AP Gem you wanted, you would still be disappointed to find out that the Gem is not Hongmoon Gem so you cannot upgrade it, Crafting this pouch is waste of money. the money that you have spent to craft this pouch should have used to buy Gem Powder and made into a proper Gem of your choice, Next time just ask people in faction chat or forums no one is going to beat you for asking. 

 

 

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

The craft is basically 50% on which one you will end up with while the diamond for defense can be useless, it does have it's fun moments at least for low level open world pvp.

[yudhister]

@SayhaSeer so you are saying that it is my fault for spending time and not talking to people and not taking another hour of my time from the already 10 hours i give to this game chatting on faction chat for info? it's not about the AP btw also hongmoon gem ofc is the best one but the diamond hongmoon cannot be used it any upgrade after that so makes no difference. 

Also i have to ask now about every small emote int he game and anything that is there doubtful? when i ask people laugh and shrug me off. Usually whales

So it's not about the gem altogether but about the information in the game and how I feel that pouch is there to just fool people. Yes ofc i should have done my research but there are things that are fairly obvious is it not? i mean when you see a cross sign on the top right or bottom right of a screen do you ask everyone if it's a button to exit before using it?

 

@Kitsune Takahashi you did not understand the point. It's about giving the right information in the game to the player. if your bank did not tell you the right percentage of interest would you not be mad at them?

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by yudhister

[Grimoir]

28 minutes ago, yudhister said:

@SayhaSeer so you are saying that it is my fault for spending time and not talking to people and not taking another hour of my time from the already 10 hours i give to this game chatting on faction chat for info? it's not about the AP btw also hongmoon gem ofc is the best one but the diamond hongmoon cannot be used it any upgrade after that so makes no difference. 

Also i have to ask now about every small emote int he game and anything that is there doubtful? when i ask people laugh and shrug me off. Usually whales

So it's not about the gem altogether but about the information in the game and how I feel that pouch is there to just fool people. Yes ofc i should have done my research but there are things that are fairly obvious is it not? i mean when you see a cross sign on the top right or bottom right of a screen do you ask everyone if it's a button to exit before using it?

 

@Kitsune Takahashi you did not understand the point. It's about giving the right information in the game to the player. if your bank did not tell you the right percentage of interest would you not be mad at them?

 

If you dont know something or are not sure about something, you ask, you google, you read guides....thats how it works. They will never reveal the exact % chance so dont even bother asking.

While i do agree that the pouch  could give a bit more info in terms of description only.

Also, there are emotes that you unlock by getting an item ffrom dungeons and emotes you unlock through certain costumes, so better ask before you do anything xD

[yudhister]

@Grimoirsure then give me your id i will add you and ask you tons of quesitons? are you ready to help people to grow the game. FYI i did google it nothing came up. Google shows at max kerropi the youtuber or another 2 people explaining stuff and some random forums about people arguing. Btw beware add me and i will ask a question for everything that comes on screen. Cause with the logic of you guys that's how a game should work. Watch guides and do stuff right? 

Also i am not asking the percentage what i am asking is the information about the diamonds with 2 different stats. Every other place i see in the game you see the diamond with the AP. If the diamond with the defense is so important why is it not there in the transmute section i wonder xD So if only they put it in brackets or gave even a small hint. Idk maybe i live in the wrong world where i think correct information is supposed to be presented unless of course your purpose has been always to misdirect someone.

 

Also just to clear to everyone i don't hate the game in fact i really like it else i would not waste time on it. This is not even a rant just a wondering that are the game developers/ncsoft also like politicians lying and trying to fool us while they try to take our money? I mean i will still like the game no matter what it has great things and different stuff but just wondering why are the gamers treated like idiots?

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by yudhister

[LilyFU]

You already realize that you can not upgrade these Gems?

Because that is the real trap for new ppl.

[yudhister]

I do agree @LilyFU but the square diamond is the max you can go with a diamond. No square honeymoon diamond is used to upgrade to any higher gem. I just feel sad that a game I respect and like treats players like this that's all. I agree also that we as a community need to help grow the game but when I opened a ticket they said it's intentional. 
Also how do you expect a game to grow when new players are treated with such traps. 

 

Also i did know the upgrade thing before crafting and crafted full well knowing that i am just putting my time and effort and gold into something that i do not intend to even upgrade further. 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by yudhister

[Nihilu]

That pouch should say something more along the line of “gives gem with a random stat” to help clarify.  At the beginning of the game crafting was the only way to get diamonds so players just naturally knew it could produce different stats.  It actually had like 5 different stats it could have (I remember evasion, defense, AP and additional damage).  I haven’t actually tried to craft one sense so hopefully it only has the 2 stats.

 

There are aspects of the game I feel haven’t been updated quite to match the new systems, one being also the price of hongmoon keys in the F10 another player mentioned in the past.

[LaraKelly]

Since you did craft it how much defence does it give? The triangular one gives 1.5k defence. 

I know this since I did craft the triangular one but for me it worked either way if it was AP I could use it or if it's defence it goes for my PVP Weapon. So I did craft it and got the 1.5k defence which is very useful in 6v6.

I am wondering about the Square one and thinking to craft it too. So how much defence does it give?

Also if you don't equip it you can still sell/trade that gem. Some people who do 6v6 may be interested.

[MassiveEgo]

11 hours ago, yudhister said:

@SayhaSeer so you are saying that it is my fault for spending time and not talking to people and not taking another hour of my time from the already 10 hours i give to this game chatting on faction chat for info?

First, it won't take you more than one minute to write in faction "hey folks, the crafted gilded square diamond pouch shows two different diamonds. What does this mean?". Second, it's not your fault that you blundered, it's simply the result of your actions. I call it optimistic naivete.

Edited May 20, 2019 by MassiveEgo

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

15 hours ago, yudhister said:

@SayhaSeer so you are saying that it is my fault for spending time and not talking to people and not taking another hour of my time from the already 10 hours i give to this game chatting on faction chat for info? it's not about the AP btw also hongmoon gem ofc is the best one but the diamond hongmoon cannot be used it any upgrade after that so makes no difference. 

Also i have to ask now about every small emote int he game and anything that is there doubtful? when i ask people laugh and shrug me off. Usually whales

So it's not about the gem altogether but about the information in the game and how I feel that pouch is there to just fool people. Yes ofc i should have done my research but there are things that are fairly obvious is it not? i mean when you see a cross sign on the top right or bottom right of a screen do you ask everyone if it's a button to exit before using it?

 

@Kitsune Takahashi you did not understand the point. It's about giving the right information in the game to the player. if your bank did not tell you the right percentage of interest would you not be mad at them?

 

While it could of been labeled or added to the item information, it is also your fault for not doing some research. Do you play a game without reading any kind of guide or ask questions when you are unsure about something in life in general? No, you do research and learn before acting (considering you wanted to compare what I said to a real life thing).

[yudhister]

@LaraKelly it gives 1940 defense and if you don't equip it, it can be traded.

 

[yudhister]

@MassiveEgo agreed i blundered but just curious as to whether anyone even gets the point i am trying to make. Why is that defense there in the pouch in the first place in a game where people are obsessed with ap to the point that they won't take anyone to raids and parties without certain ap. Also ofc it does not take even a minute but the question is i did not even think i needed to ask anyone cause i assumed and calculated it's result based on the information in the game. Just did not think that information is not updated as mentioned by @Nihilu who explained how the system was which makes perfect sense now why it is like this.

 

@Kitsune Takahashi i said that to give you a better explanation of my point i was trying to make and ofc i do research but there is also something called as common sense stuff that you see. Do you ask everyone everything when you see something in real life. But i guess no point speaking to you since you wanted to put up a petty comeback rather than focus on the main issue like others.

P.S Also if you are talking about guides then blade and soul might not be a good example cause it does not guide you through any process which is not a bad at all and you get to learn in your own ways which is an amazing experience. 

Edited May 20, 2019 by yudhister

[Deadly Intent]

There are many traps in BnS.  NC relies on them to generate revenue or use to control the game economy.  From trove to your example.  And you are correct, the game explains very little and expects you to go out and find it yourself.  Some might say this is intentional as it forces you to ask others (social interaction) but could also be seen as ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ port game design.  Either way, unless you've been with the game for a considerable time these kinds of things can bite you on the ass.  NC will eventually implement a mentoring system (when is up in the air) and that might change things for the better or allow more directed questions between new players and veterans.  But notice that this will still require you to ask another player and not NC.  They are not players after all (and it shows after every update).

[yudhister]

@Deadly Intent totally agreed brother. I do agree this is a good way for some but when designing a game you are catering to all age groups and demographics from people who love to talk and play with others to people who like to play quietly or solo players, from 12 year olds to 30 year olds everyone needs to be thought of while making the game. Good game design gives the player a good chance to learn with the right information and does teach the player skill overtime but this is another style of game design i guess that NC, EA and other publishers have started following. I just feel sad that great games and ideas are being used like this while there are amazing exmaples where the players feedback is considered and respected and the game grows overtime. Warframe is one of the best exmaples, so many people i play me included earned so much without spending a dime in the game but it so well made in so many areas that i actually spent money to support the game and so did my friends. Give the players enough fun and respect them and they will respect you back for sure. Most of them at least, 

[Hanuku]

I made an octa the other day. It gave me a defense octa. Guess now I have something I could either sell to a cash strapped pvper, or I can now solo blackram narrows with a level 20 character. :)

 

[Ryunosuke Takahashi]

3 hours ago, yudhister said:

@MassiveEgo agreed i blundered but just curious as to whether anyone even gets the point i am trying to make. Why is that defense there in the pouch in the first place in a game where people are obsessed with ap to the point that they won't take anyone to raids and parties without certain ap. Also ofc it does not take even a minute but the question is i did not even think i needed to ask anyone cause i assumed and calculated it's result based on the information in the game. Just did not think that information is not updated as mentioned by @Nihilu who explained how the system was which makes perfect sense now why it is like this.

 

@Kitsune Takahashi i said that to give you a better explanation of my point i was trying to make and ofc i do research but there is also something called as common sense stuff that you see. Do you ask everyone everything when you see something in real life. But i guess no point speaking to you since you wanted to put up a petty comeback rather than focus on the main issue like others.

P.S Also if you are talking about guides then blade and soul might not be a good example cause it does not guide you through any process which is not a bad at all and you get to learn in your own ways which is an amazing experience. 

No, my point was this just using google you could of found the required information to better help you understand about said item in less then 30 seconds depending on your internet or you could of asked in faction chat while many on the game will give you smartass replies, someone would of helped you understand more about that item. Also, there is plenty of guides about this game on youtube as well which explain most things. While the information could of been provided in-game on the item description which it isn't, one should refer to others for help. That wasn't a petty comeback but a way of making the point as you did with your bank interest rate comment.

[Astarae]

2 hours ago, yudhister said:

@Deadly Intent totally agreed brother. I do agree this is a good way for some but when designing a game you are catering to all age groups and demographics from people who love to talk and play with others to people who like to play quietly or solo players, from 12 year olds to 30 year olds everyone needs to be thought of while making the game. Good game design gives the player a good chance to learn with the right information and does teach the player skill overtime but this is another style of game design i guess that NC, EA and other publishers have started following. I just feel sad that great games and ideas are being used like this while there are amazing exmaples where the players feedback is considered and respected and the game grows overtime. Warframe is one of the best exmaples, so many people i play me included earned so much without spending a dime in the game but it so well made in so many areas that i actually spent money to support the game and so did my friends. Give the players enough fun and respect them and they will respect you back for sure. Most of them at least, 

This game comes from an eastern game vendor.  Eastern societies are more about conforming and eliminating individuality so large numbers of them can get along in small spaces (or so it seems). 

 

You aren't the first to bring up the issues you've brought up and probably won't be the last.

 

This game is very poorly documented, but what can they do with them coming out with new systems every 4-6 months?  Software engineers hate documenting and on top of that it would have to go into korean, and be translated to a local language.  

 

There is an option for an online help in the game -- it's in the key-options but it does nothing.  But they are pushing players to spend more, *right now*, because if they may have to scale back their operations even more quickly, but they are ignoring the successes in the gambling industry, where payouts are over 90% on many slots -- which is also where casinos get over 90% 

of their revenue these days.  If they were to pay out at <1%, their customers would quit in droves.  They maximize their profits by engaging the customer to play longer -- even if it is at less profit/hour because they retain customers they can have some of them for life.

 

I mentioned this in the last trove -- if they increase payouts of desired items, people will spend more.  In this trove you get 2x50 tix for about 112NC Coin or about $140.  While in previous troves, you'd get 3x100 tix with wider variety, but lower payout.  Still, the payout on the current event sucks.  you just don't get much.  Like this time, I've gotten maybe 2HM points, but last time, was able to get 1-5pt tick for alot less -- and still nothing in this trove is that useful to me and certainly not a good deal.

 

As for the gems -- I asked if they could change the design and look of the non-upgradeable vs. temp jewels, I was told by some sadistic players that it was my fault for not thoroughly studying them and reading fine print that was as clear as the eyes and nose on an ant.  Also, I was under the impression as I made a soirée  through the guilds that I could only make defense and not offense.  I could try to sell them, (unlike HMgems), but I didn't think they were a great deal.  For a while I sometimes wore a defense diamond on SSP to help with its need for more defense, but that diamond is in my closet now, as I had to take a break from the game (game wouldn't start) for a bit over 2 months -- when I came back both the pvp and pve gear had been upped and there was no way I could afford the new pvp gear and its not clear how long it will take to get pve gear at tt level,  let alone at the next level.  For a while, I was making progress, but recently getting TT has been another wall in both access and much higher costs.  And already ET gear is out.  It's looking pretty much that unless you are willing to spend alot of money, you are going to fall behind and NC soft is shutting down older areas to keep people from spending time there where the costs were not as high (both veridian coast line and cinderlands had all their blue quests removed.  a real shame, as there was some real amusing dialogue and options there.  Wonder how long it will be before moonwater and more are thinned?

 

I don't know why they don't give better rewards, as the levels at which they are giving -- aren't reinforcing and have been shown to be harmful to customer retention.

 

 

[yudhister]

@Astarae do agree with a lot of stuff you said. As you can see in the chats above people keep telling ask on faction chat google and stuff. I googled how and where to farm moonstones not moonstone crystals but just moonstones multiple times went through 9 pages of google search and got nothing on them, since the people who know do not want to share the ifo since they farm and sell it themselves or maybe there is no way. Soulstone plains is broken too in many ways. Really awesome concept but broken cause the mega veterans farm there 24x7 with mega gear and 1 ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ stuff and you get PP based on damage. But still i love the game it's really good and just want to see it grow and improve. With the right mindset by the publishers and devlopers, i think that could happen.
 

@Kitsune Takahashi maybe i misunderstood about the comeback apologies for that. But point still remains that you think i would not have googled it or tried to ask in faction chat? i did and got no good responses cause the veterans don't have time to respond or don't care and the people farming like me don't have the info. Also i googles multiple times where to farm moonstones not crystals but just moonstones since i see people selling 400-900 together and idk how they get it or where since they don't share that info. Everything i found through google and other research was talking just about moonstone crystal and Mushin tower to farm it. Also it's not like i am asking info for free stuff i want to work hard and farm it. But my point is that inspite of constant search getting the correct info that you need is nearly impossible. Also faction chat half of the time starts with some info and then turns into a cuircus idk why. Only met a few people who actually message you privately and help you. And another thing i don't like getting help from people a lot, i like doing things on my own that is another reason is said information is key. A game is made for multiple demographics from all ages and all types of people who love talking to people who hate talking and solo playing and stuff and i know an MMO is supposed to be about multiplayer and teamwork but there are always smartly designed ways in games to cater to all those demographics, or at least in most MMOs and other games i have seen.

[Astarae]

1 hour ago, yudhister said:

@Astarae do agree with a lot of stuff you said. As you can see in the chats above people keep telling ask on faction chat google and stuff. I googled how and where to farm moonstones not moonstone crystals but just moonstones multiple times went through 9 pages of google search and got nothing on them, since the people who know do not want to share the ifo since they farm and sell it themselves or maybe there is no way.

There is no way.  They come infrequently and in small amounts, some think they get some rewards in 6's PvP, but I've seen them farming down in CB for what I know are slim pickings.  The only think I've found were you could actually farm something used to be at SSP before the last equipment upgrade -- now, can't farm there, but before, I might be able to get up to 2x500 prestige points

if I was lucky and turn those in for soulstone bags.  But now, I'm higher level, but compared to others, I'm 6-8 months behind -- others who have stayed caught up were bragging how they spent 16K in the past 6 months bringing up a new character or two.  Well beyond my limits.

1 hour ago, yudhister said:

 

Soulstone plains is broken too in many ways. Really awesome concept but broken cause the mega veterans farm there 24x7 with mega gear and 1 ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ stuff and you get PP based on damage.

I got my PP off the NPC's, if you can solo the top boss there he's worth over 1000 PP's, but he's tough.  Now, though it's hard to even get there with the required buffs before he's dead.  Also, thre used to be 6 waves of middle bosses worth in the 100's each that were sent out -- but they are only sent out  if the other sides drills are still running.  And so often I come in and the other side has killed off the drills and you have to wait for over a half an hour for anything to happen again, so its gotten pretty messed up.

[yudhister]

@Astarae yup totally agree the place is filled with bots or whales farming 24x7 for soulstones who one ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ easily. I tried farming there for 2 days and collected 300pp in like 3 hours. I don't have amazing DPS but decent and still did not get enough time to get proper hits on the bosses or even the mobs around. I know things are broken and it's tough for game developers to fix but its sad how players also exploit stuff like mad. I mean even the game developers can only fix this much. And then they blame them for creating a system they could break so easily. Same thing happened in apex legends when it came out a popular youtuber was making videos which showed glitches and abuses for speed and stuff. And he said i want to get this info to the game developers so they fix it.
I mean come on if you want to get info to the devs you can record or even type the glitch in 2 sentences and send it in their bug reports and suggestions or open a ticket. Why freaking lie. You want more views on youtube and twitch that's it. It's a never ending process i feel. People will keep doing this until they face it themselves.

[Nihilu]

6 hours ago, yudhister said:

@Astarae do agree with a lot of stuff you said. As you can see in the chats above people keep telling ask on faction chat google and stuff. I googled how and where to farm moonstones not moonstone crystals but just moonstones multiple times went through 9 pages of google search and got nothing on them, since the people who know do not want to share the ifo since they farm and sell it themselves or maybe there is no way. Soulstone plains is broken too in many ways. Really awesome concept but broken cause the mega veterans farm there 24x7 with mega gear and 1 ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ stuff and you get PP based on damage. But still i love the game it's really good and just want to see it grow and improve. With the right mindset by the publishers and devlopers, i think that could happen.

Moonstones are probably the hardest resource to “farm” as its prime source comes from 6v6.  You otherwise only can really get them from dailies/weeklies challenges.  Imo ToI took the place of SSP as it is an ok (not amazing) source for Soul Stones, Sacred Orb, and you can get some Elysian Orb.  Once you get more geared (or figure out how to fight the npc) once every like 6 months you can get some moonstones (and evolve stones and Elysian Orbs) from the trial arena next to the ToI entrance.  

 

The forums could be an ok place to ask questions too, but depending on how questions are phrased or who sees it, you might not always get answers, but in general I have seen quite a few people trying to be helpful here.  Finding a good clan/discord is also probably the best way to figure out info.  Discord’s in general are just easier to relay information then chat in game.

Edited May 21, 2019 by Nihilu