Rmccn08

Blade and Soul IS NOT PAY TO WIN

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9 minutes ago, Junamaki said:

I literally quoted you, go back and read your own words. You're telling me I'm twisting your words when you just twisted mine, I didn't say YOU were calling people out for not spending money, I said "whales." The rest I won't even quote because it's completely irrelevant to what I directed towards you. Also way to use insults ("Grow up") because I disagree with what you said instead of having a civil discussion.

Ahahaha...okay. Whatever you say.

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Granger   

Is this guy even reading other peoples posts? Sure smells like hes just here to cause trouble now.

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10 hours ago, ombremq said:

Saying content is available to everyone was their way to fool simple minded people...

No it is the truth, an undeniable truth. You have a choice to participate in what they offer. You choose not to and in doing so you berate, attacks, and insult those who do. You are wrong. No matter what you say, how you say it, your argument is without merit and untenable. You made the choice not to participate by spending money, yet you denigrate those that do. Your logic in doing so is misconstrued and misguided.

Everything is available to everyone, including you. It is your choice to be part if it, period.

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1 minute ago, Granger said:

Is this guy even reading other peoples posts? Sure smells like hes just here to cause trouble now.

It is apparent I do. You seem incapable of doing so without reading into what is said and coming up with something that twists what is said. That said, if you think I'm here to upset your safe space of single thought, please report me. I'd welcome the admins to come into this thread and read every post that was shared, including yours with direct and inferred insults. Have at it.

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Fufia   
12 minutes ago, StrykerGaming said:

And the fact you resort to more insults perfectly makes my point of "those who resort to insults and name calling" have lost the argument. Why? Because they cannot accept the truth and their narrative is destroyed so insulting others is their only option in hopes of shutting down the one they insult. Nice try, but you fail. My advice to you, stop while you can. Right now, no one can have a constructive conversation with you whatsoever.

But you say this to me

 

2 hours ago, StrykerGaming said:

 

You and the others need to stop whining and gripping about what the company OFFERS EVERYONE EQUALLY. Your argument is untenable. Here, I'll ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ you all off, when I return home next week, I'll buy 2 50 box bundles and enjoy opening them all guilt free because anyone can do that! How's that? Triggered? Good. Stop acting like petulant children who cannot get their way. Get off you collective backsides, get a job, earn money and spend it as your heart desire.

Good luck trying to find my insult.

I'm glad you admit that you lost. 

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4 minutes ago, Fufia said:

But you say this to me

 

Good luck trying to find my insult.

I'm glad you admit that you lost. 

What I said was truth. You cannot except it, that's on you. You go through life that way, you're in for a very rude awakening. You want to "claim victory" be my guest. It does not change the truth or the facts. Now, I'll leave you to your fantasy world where you reside believing you are correct and everyone else who does not support you are wrong and have some kind of 'ism/ist' tagged on them for not doing so.

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Fufia   
13 minutes ago, StrykerGaming said:

What I said was truth. You cannot except it, that's on you. You go through life that way, you're in for a very rude awakening. You want to "claim victory" be my guest. It does not change the truth or the facts. Now, I'll leave you to your fantasy world where you reside believing you are correct and everyone else who does not support you are wrong and have some kind of 'ism/ist' tagged on them for not doing so.

You are crazy Sr.

I see you Just answer to the joke the real answer I gave you, you're ignoring.

Nothing smart to say? For the answers you have given people is not a surprise 

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Fiana   

@StrykerGaming you're right this game is not P2W (Pay to Win) because the very condition for a game to be p2w is there are "winning" situation,

 

game like dota2 or csgo where there are a point when someone lose and someone win and then the company company selling premium item that can effect the game outcome with real money, but not with bns

in PVE, higher dps is always welcomed, because because someone have higher dps it'll make thing easier for the rest of party.. lets examine a case here, there are a "whale" with GC 9 and full TT accesorry can deal more than 1,3 mill dps to stage 6 msp
is there anyone lose here? no
or is there anyone winning here? yes, everyone in party 12man now can clear msp 6 with ease

in PVP, in arena all gear is equal only skill and ping matter

 

in Battleground, in here is the only place where you can say there are a bit element of p2w, but is it though? PVP gear is always so easy to upgrade and far more cheap than PVE
most of the time you don't even need full pvp gear to be good at battleground only need weapon and proper PVP SS that's cheap
skill and not braindead is far more important after you get the gear

 

i've play this game since open beta, and i've progress pretty far in game with f2p
and i don't want to blame player who buy premium and cosmetic because they're the one who keep the bns alive,
and most of all they're pretty helpful in dungeon and raid due to their high gear and dps

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SalemK   

After reading the OP's content and a few of the replies, while I agree and disagree with some of the points made, it seems like a few people might've took what they said out of context. As someone who was heavily supporting the game when I was playing I really didn't feel like what they said was meant to attack or blame us/those who spent money on the game but maybe those who do can shed some light on that part if I missed it?

 

Sure at the end they contradict some things by saying to stop supporting the game but again this doesn't sound like a personal attack against whales. Also whales aren't the only ones that support the game, you don't have to shell out large sums of money to show support, lets just say there are levels by which people support the game such as those who pay for only premium, those who buy cosmetics and most participate in trove and rng boxes to get them, small whales that spend just enough to do most content, big whales that spend to get maxed out on everything , imo even f2p show support by playing, etc.. There's nothing with people who decide to spend a lot on gaming after all it's a hobby and their money but there's also nothing wrong with f2p people in which some can't afford to spend money, in the end we're all just here to enjoy a game.

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I am Pay 2 Win. Can I get my Super Beluga Orca Whale trophy now? How can I become a duel arena bot farmer with 10 alts just to horde the ladder rankings? Do I need a good VPN? 

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Grimoir   
6 hours ago, Fufia said:

I know. What I was telling you is that you do not have a good way to farm that in game. yes you can farm. but how many years are you going to take? and when you reach your goal You realize that it was in vain. because NCS has already released another patch.

 

I see you blame ppl for being lazy. of course there are ppl like that. 

But you really think it's all okay with the farm in this game? is just lazy ppl? I can not agree with you. 

So what is your opinion about NCS giving free stuff all the time? it's just because ppl are lazy?

On this I agree with you.

Well...let me word this a bit differently..... the grind in this game i would classify as ok-ish. Meaning everything can be achieved with just in-game farming, which is good.

Now yes i sgree that it takes a while in terms of time ratio to farm the needed things. But the biggest issue here is player mentality.

Perfect example:

 

Celestial basin, a very good source of materials for upgrading (crystals) yet people dont wanna do it because "its boring". While it may be boring its a easy and very good way toget what you want. I spent a full week just farming it because i wanted to max out my weapon , i wanted it so bad, i farmed enough and did it, got even a few evolved stones from it while killing the bosses there.

 

Now i am not saying this is everyone, but most the complaining seems to be from players that dont want to farm, that want to have the same gear as whales because of i would even call it jeleousy (tho that might be a bit far fetched). How many people complain about the raids and dungeons because "they cant get into a party with geared people" while they might aswel make one of their own parties and clear it. Let me even tell you, even if you had gear, whales would not take you because you have no clue of the mechanics (there is even a list, yes a list in circulation where there are names of players to avoid in lfg and harder content) The new raid is even supposedly easier than TT and VT because people were whining too much about mechanics.( heard from various sources). bottom line it will come down to a choice: easier content with less materials or harder content with more rewarding rewards.

 

Then you have those saying "new content is locked to the whales" , no, the only thing locking you out of content is you yourself.

Edited by Grimoir

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RavTH   

Pay 2 not be outskilled by f2p player.
Pay 2 have advantage over f2p content/players.
Pay 2 Not farm because I have a life.

pretty much

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Terra   

Well it is indeed Pay to Climb. There is no Win in this game.

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Pay to win infers that someone has a distinct advantage over another. In order for that to happen in this game or any other game, the game's developers have to have a limiter or condition in place. Example, only premium 365 members have access to RNG boxes or Treasure Trove. Do we have this in this game? Yes or No? The answer is no. Why? Because it is available to everyone who chooses to obtain those things.

 

The real issue here is this: Those who are strictly F2P claim that those who do spend money (the Whales) and have premium accounts, have an advantage over them. They (F2P) want the game fair and balanced. **In other words, they want to have the same benefits as those who are premium players. I believe they (F2P) believe that everyone should have equal access to all aspects including subscription based benefits without having to spend any money for them. Thus, they (F2P) admonish those who are spending money while they are not. I found this little tid bit concerning "Pay to Win." I wanted to share it with you: https://massivelyop.com/2018/08/24/massively-overthinking-pay-to-win-vs-cosmetics-in-mmos-and-virtual-worlds/

Can you guess where this idea** and line of thinking comes from? I'll give 10 gold to the 1st person who can answer this one correctly.

As a business professor, I can tell you with assurance that if NCsoft had that business model where everyone gets the exact same thing without spending a dime on it, would not be in business anymore. The game is free to play; however, their business model has two parts to it, the free to play and the premium system. The cash shop is part of the latter; however, it does not provide enough funds to sustain the operations of this game. That money comes from those who subscribe to the premium memberships. Every MMO that has a F2P aspect to it inevitably has a premium membership. They have to or they won't last long. Cash shops can only provide so much; however, it does not provide the necessary means to sustain operations.

Clearly, many believe because people spend money on items from the HM store, they have an advantage over them because they do not. It does not matter that they too have equal access too the same things. That there is nothing preventing them from participating in obtaining these very same items. This alone is the point of contention. They choose not to spend money, therefore, they berate those who do. Again, the belief and line of thinking is expressed "all should have equal access without spending money."

An undeniable truth: Nothing in life is free, some one has to pay for it even if someone gets something for free.

 

Question: Is this game free to play?

Question: Does this game provide a premium service?

Question: Does all players, regardless of account status, have equal access to HM store?

 

The other point of contention centers on the Treasure Trove and RNG boxes. Again, those who decry players as whales for buying them forget they too have access to these items and choose not to, whatever the circumstances for not doing so. If this game in NA/EU have 10 million players and of those 2 million have premium accounts and spend money in the HM store (this includes those F2P who opt in too), who is supporting this game financially?

Conversely, NCsoft (an any other MMO with a similar business model), offers benefits for all players who opt for a premium account. This is a standard practice. You choose to obtain a premium membership you get those benefits. One of those is 1 extra spin on the wheel. You also get 15 HMcoins per day. You get log in rewards that include HM level boosters and a total of 5 treasure bags filled with mats for leveling. And you get permanent XP boost (30%) while you're premium. This only part of the benefits. All for $11.99 per 30 days. Or 2800 NCoins. The latter one can earn by selling desired crafting items in the market for gold, then taking that gold and putting it on the coin exchange and earning NCoins. At the current rate (as of last Saturday is 1.5) if you sell 2000 gold during the month that's 3000 NCoins.

 

Blade and Soul is the first game I've encountered that allows players to earn the company money (NCoins/HMcoins). It's ingenious if you ask me. The fact that this is available really stifles any argument that F2P have that they cannot obtain the RNG boxes or have a premium account. Not a dime is spent on these coins. It just takes time and effort to earn them. Grinding for NCoins if you like.

 

Personally, I'd like to see the have and have-nots stop the current meta of keeping the player base separated into these two groups. I'd love to see players stop berating those who spend their money. How many players have quit this game because of the toxicity created by this? There is enough concern already about low population of players. Does calling out and demeaning players for buying these RNG boxes made available to everyone promote and foster a player friendly environment? No, it does not.

 

I stated in one of my earlier posts that people need to stop whining and moaning about those who do spend their money and to get off their collective backsides and do something about it (paraphrased). That wasn't a good choice of words for me to express my thoughts. In my defense, I was on pain meds following my knee surgery. Still, I was wrong and if I offended anyone I humbly apologize.

Finally, we are all here to play a game that offers us an awesome immersion experience and fun. The contentious points I touched on shouldn't even be an issue. We all have a choice. Our choices should not segregate us where one group looks down with disdain towards the other. That in of itself creates a hostile environment and a level of toxicity that can and will drive people away. That does not help the game whatsoever. It wasn't like this or nearly this bad when I started play over 3 year ago.

 

Well, that's all I have to say. Thanks for reading if you did.

Edited by StrykerGaming

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They should implement a system where the one that whales the most gets a whale trophy every season IRL. You know giving back to the players. That way it can really be a pay 2 win game, the prize will be a nice and shiny whale trophy.

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ombremq   
Il y a 10 heures, StrykerGaming a dit :

Pay to win infers that someone has a distinct advantage over another. In order for that to happen in this game or any other game, the game's developers have to have a limiter or condition in place. Example, only premium 365 members have access to RNG boxes or Treasure Trove. Do we have this in this game? Yes or No? The answer is no. Why? Because it is available to everyone who chooses to obtain those things...

What are you talking about , that make no sense....RNG boxes & Treasure trove arent available to everyone, you don't choose or not to obtain those things, you need ressources (lot of golds to sell) or money, the game's developers have to have a limiter or condition???.... devs put a limit to how many boxes/keys you can buy as F2P players, 20boxes or 20keys everyday using Hmcoins... for those using their credit card = no limit....wake up pls !
Like you said on Pay2Win game there a limit , there a condition, on the one i was playing premium were giving better stats, so that was the "P2W" feature....but who were able to obtain those premium? almost everyone... In Blade & Soul their no such a thing they changed a 20$ pay2Win premium by an unreasonable farm, and the more you pay the more advantage you gain on other people, the more mats you have, the better weapons/gems/soul you can have day1 compared to those F2P people limited by time & HM coins daily purshase...

And what make it B&S worse than a Pay2WIn, like i said there no limit, your free to invest thousands of $ to never have to farm again and to take top spot in 6v6

Edited by ombremq

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2 hours ago, ombremq said:

What are you talking about , that make no sense....RNG boxes & Treasure trove arent available to everyone, you don't choose or not to obtain those things, you need ressources (lot of golds to sell) or money, the game's developers have to have a limiter or condition???.... devs put a limit to how many boxes/keys you can buy as F2P players, 20boxes or 20keys everyday using Hmcoins... for those using their credit card = no limit....wake up pls !
Like you said on Pay2Win game there a limit , there a condition, on the one i was playing premium were giving better stats, so that was the "P2W" feature....but who were able to obtain those premium? almost everyone... In Blade & Soul their no such a thing they changed a 20$ pay2Win premium by an unreasonable farm, and the more you pay the more advantage you gain on other people, the more mats you have, the better weapons/gems/soul you can have day1 compared to those F2P people limited by time & HM coins daily purshase...

And what make it B&S worse than a Pay2WIn, like i said there no limit, your free to invest thousands of $ to never have to farm again and to take top spot in 6v6

Sigh...you just proved my point. You want F2P players to have the exact same thing as premium players without having to spend a dime. Otherwise, you would not mention the "limit boxes or keys" they make available to F2P players 'everyday.' They still have access to those boxes and keys. You want to have the benefits of the premium membership without having to pay for it. That is exactly what you want and it is exactly the point of contention I spoke of. That is not going to happen. You want those benefits? Become a premium player (if you're not already). It is that simple.

 

<deleted the rest...not worth it any more...>

 

<Shrug> I reckon what I'm saying is truly fallen on deaf ears. That...that is truly sad.

Edited by StrykerGaming

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DrindiX   

oh .. my .. god, you just preach your own bullcrap you didn't address ombremq's point at all, just stop it as i told you previously, you believe you are always  right and you don't address the real issue that is failing the economy troves and rng boxes and you are doing yourself and everyone a huge disfavor. If they fix the current gear progression system so it doesn't force u to farm months upon months just for a True Ascending soul which is so old at this point anyway, you will see an influx of players who would be more than happy to pay for premium and costumes.

I personally used to buy premium cause i enjoyed the game and the farm but after seeing multiple ninja nerfs with the pure intent to slow me down even further .. as if it wasn't slow enough already i just stopped.

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Hogokyu   

All i want is for the game to run properly.

All i want is for the game to not cap fps at 25.

 

Can i please just have that or do i have to pay for it ?

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Viblo   

There's no chance in hell that I'm reading all of this, but I'm going to correct you on one thing:

 

It is Bloodlust who decides on what happens in the game, not NCWEST. NCWEST simply relays the players' feedback to the developers, but only the developers can make the final decision.

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10 hours ago, DrindiX said:

oh .. my .. god, you just preach your own bullcrap you didn't address ombremq's point at all, just stop it as i told you previously, you believe you are always  right and you don't address the real issue that is failing the economy troves and rng boxes and you are doing yourself and everyone a huge disfavor. If they fix the current gear progression system so it doesn't force u to farm months upon months just for a True Ascending soul which is so old at this point anyway, you will see an influx of players who would be more than happy to pay for premium and costumes.

I personally used to buy premium cause i enjoyed the game and the farm but after seeing multiple ninja nerfs with the pure intent to slow me down even further .. as if it wasn't slow enough already i just stopped.

You and the rest are blinded by your own ideological belief there is no talking to you, explaining, or sharing. Your eyes are clouded by a belief that would destroy this game. Hell, not one of you address anything I shared. You ignore it and focus on, "GIVE ME FREE STUFF BECAUSE IT IS PAY TO WIN IF YOU DO NOT!" That is exactly what it is, to say it is not is bull excrement. Now, go back to believing that everyone lives equally, shares equally, and enjoys everything equally, and everyone should be equally miserable because that is fair. You want all players to have everything equally without having to pay for it. That is the underlying sentiment of those who believe as you and that this is Pay. Too. Win.

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6 hours ago, Viblo said:

It is Bloodlust who decides on what happens in the game, not NCWEST. NCWEST simply relays the players' feedback to the developers, but only the developers can make the final decision.

This is one of the most factually correct statements I've read from any respondent in this thread. Team Bloodlust hasn't changed anything because the probably believe and understand that under their current model it is fair and equitable for all players.

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Dlacik   
5 minutes ago, Fufia said:

Blade and Soul IS NOT PAY TO WIN :D:

https://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/party-box-celebration-crate-now-available/

check what we can buy with Lucky Coin. and say it again.

End game gear in F10 It takes only a few minutes to get.

 

                                                               :D::D::D:

And which of that "end game" gear you couldn't already buy with gold?

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