BNS West Pay to Play - Why not?

[ColorfulDispensary]

Just now, Lunakitty said:

Only way for me and him to communicate so yeah priorities. :D

Not eating or talking to someone they have never met and prob never will if he only makes 300 a month lol 

Sounds like a perfectly stable relationship to me 

Could be the fat guy in me but I'd pick food lol 

[ColorfulDispensary]

4 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

I don't think I need or should explain my relationship over this forum so maybe focus on the topic of the P2P BnS that was suggested in this topic? :)

Sure I say make it p2p

Atleast then everyone contributes to keeping the servers open and the f2p poor millennials won't be leeching off our hard working backs and I can stop seeing post about people crying about wardrobes cause they would all have it 

[Tsuchiryu]

21 hours ago, Erza Scarlet said:

So why is this game not pay to play?

Because this isn't Korea and NCWest thankfully isn't stupid enough to make this game dead on arrival by making it P2P instead.

 

@Nilkemios has it right. P2P > F2P is quite the fallacy and it's saddening to see some thinking it'll work for this game.

[GreenDestiny]

2 hours ago, Nilkemios said:

Sigh...people still pushing this tired "subscription will make the game better" misconception, I see.

 

No. It won't. It didn't work for Aion. It didn't work for Tera. Or Wildstar. Or the Elder Scrolls Online. Or others I don't even know of. The only two that still get away with it here in the west that I know of are WoW, FFXV, and maybe SWTOR. At least two of which are partially free to play now. And in the case of those three, they all have big publishers with presumably large and dedicated fanbases to work off of, as well as many other things they make besides those MMOs, meaning that even if the subscription model did fubar on them in the end, they don't have to worry.

 

And, you forget this is NCSoft we're talking about here. If you think a subscription would suddenly make them give a shit and start putting in any more than the minimum of effort, I'm going to have to ask what makes you think that, especially seeing as they've apparently made 17 million by this point in NA/EU(?), yet still can't put any of that into improving/fixing the game.

As someone else already said you are wrong. Aion was a far better game when it had a subscription based model. Making it f2p ruined everything about it.

[Nattia]

I would love p2p, I hate gambling.

[Lunakitty]

I don't think they would make for example the gem boxes free even if it was p2p. It would only mean that people can pay for playing and also pay to get rng boxes just like now so it would just increase the money gotten but lower player base by alot. The game base is gambling with RNG, making the game p2p wouldn't make that part disappear. Only thing changing would be possibly having no bots.

[TryGoogleThis]

Should be p2p, All these f2p players QQing everytime they see someone drop money on this game. Even tho they are the very reason they can play for free. 

´Oh thanks for making sure i can play this game for free, Now  *cricket* you,-Insert salt-´    F2p logic( disclaimer i know its not all F2P players), 

but for some 200 Euros are pennies, for some 2k euros are pennies and so we go. 

p2p has given the games i played much better community, such a gw2 atleast the server i was part of had the best community i have ever played with.  And very few bots compared to these f2p games.. Also Toxictiy goes up so much when f2P.

[WarWarWar]

i will tell u why its p2w.

i will ignore all the daily facts about p2w in game like gems/gears/rng stuff etc since they are so many and was mentioned by many ppl and ill just  go straight down to ncsoft support u pay cash and you're entitled for having "special treatment" from ncsoft support cuz u pay.

 

moving gems moving gears accessory's as u please just cuz u pay them, that special treatment right there is a punch in the face for free players, many ppl got special treatment like this and many will do...

you just ask them nicely and wallah you can reroll to a Soul fighter just like that by swapping gears from your main this is just disgusting.

ncsoft been doing this under your noses long time ago..

ppl did reroll as a WL and now SF and moving stuff all around just cuz ppl pay them

[Lunakitty]

If they were to make it p2p I hope all the characters and their progression would get resetted or erased as making f2p suddenly into p2p would cause many people to lose their characters. Make it fair it it were to go p2p, though it's not going to happen as they would lose alot of money and players with that kind of stunt.

[AttacKat]

20 hours ago, jones6 said:

I hear the main quest line takes them to HM12. I would rather have the P2P KR version from what I have read about.

You heard wrong. ;p

 

HM0->HM10 = ~31M+ exp points, where L0-L50 is only <1M exp.

[WarWarWar]

7 hours ago, TryGoogleThis said:

Should be p2p, All these f2p players QQing everytime they see someone drop money on this game. Even tho they are the very reason they can play for free. 

´Oh thanks for making sure i can play this game for free, Now  *cricket* you,-Insert salt-´    F2p logic( disclaimer i know its not all F2P players), 

but for some 200 Euros are pennies, for some 2k euros are pennies and so we go. 

p2p has given the games i played much better community, such a gw2 atleast the server i was part of had the best community i have ever played with.  And very few bots compared to these f2p games.. Also Toxictiy goes up so much when f2P.

ppl like you are funny i'm assuming you pay for stuff from your post,

anyways u think if you spend 1$ you own the company let me brake it to you. 

 

 

you are not making me play the game for free or any other paying player,

this game made f2p by ncsoft company not cuz of you and millions like you.

 

 

so yeah i hate those kind of answers your not doing anything for me and others like me by spending cash, i would be fine with it being p2p if they only use these rng boxes events and sales, they said no rng before and no p2w and now its becoming p2w cuz of these events

so i'm sorry to burst your bubble you don't own ncsoft nor you have any control over my gameplay in any way. 

[Bezerko]

I believe this game would have been better thought out had it been a p2p model.

 

First, it would have helped by adding a barrier of entry against bots by forcing them to pay additional money to activate a new sub every time an account received the ban hammer. Of course, they already do that now with some of those accounts being premium.

 

Second, it would of leveled the playing field so that everyone was on even footing by getting rid of the so-called pay for convenience elements present in this game.

 

It's been my experience that p2p games always feel more polished and robust than f2p games.  It feels like the publisher takes more pride in the quality of the p2p game since their livelihood is more directly affected by the player subscription base as a whole and not on just a handful of whales who are only interested in their next gambling fix.

 

Sadly, NCWest went down the lazy road and made this game f2p.  Now all they have to worry about is making sure there are periodic releases of gambling boxes for the whales.  It takes less effort to just put some stuff in RNG then to make actual quality content.

[Dotimus]

On 08/07/2016 at 1:19 AM, Erza Scarlet said:

If this game was pay to play like in Korea, we would've gotten a lot more events and free outfits etc. Even the chat box seems to be nice! So why is this game not pay to play? The company would put more effort into its players by providing good service to KEEP them to play for the monthly fee. What do you all think? All these rng boxes seems to really rally up some players...

 

On 08/07/2016 at 1:59 AM, Erza Scarlet said:

I rather pay 10$ a month and get all outfits ingame by earning it through raids etc. than buying it from cash shop. Compare bns kr with bns NA/EU.and you see ours is lacking on many areas. Optimization, DPS meter, sandbox, free events, more player friendly.

 

really?

1 server infrastructure is cheap those days, we are not in the 90's

2 there is no new optimization on the other version ( and the ones we dont have we are getting in the next patches, it really is the same code base, devs already told) the major problem is a old game engine, if it wont change in korea it just wont change in any of the other regions

3 what is more money pay to play at $15 a month or free to play $15 a month for premium + 100-500 for rng boxes + some 100 for the ocasional costume?

4 it would make the game even worst for new players ( less players to play with)

5 free to play is working fine on other regions ( TW, china, japan)

6 finally the bots issue.... i think Jeasung would say otherwise. ( ya, it is not a subject you posted but posted by other players)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3aNFotyd_Y

 

 

[Augurio]

I'm a premium player, i don't mind to pay for playing, sub to WoW for many years too.
If we can get more stability client ... but i don't think they will erase all the RNG, for only sub players.

 

[GreenDestiny]

11 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

If they were to make it p2p I hope all the characters and their progression would get resetted or erased as making f2p suddenly into p2p would cause many people to lose their characters. Make it fair it it were to go p2p, though it's not going to happen as they would lose alot of money and players with that kind of stunt.

There is no way they can change it now it would need to have been p2p at release, then after a couple years go f2p.

[Brand X]

I believe, when they said they wouldn't censor anything and they did, most reasonable people knew they were lying on things.  It was only a matter of time before a RNG box was going to come in.  Now, I don't recall them ever saying they wouldn't do a RNG box, I thought they just said, wouldn't be pay to win.

 

I guess the real question is, what does one consider "winning" :p  Is it just completing the storyline?  Then you don't need anything in a rng box to do that.

[Lunakitty]

5 hours ago, GreenDestiny said:

There is no way they can change it now it would need to have been p2p at release, then after a couple years go f2p.

I agree with this. People can talk about it but it won't happen for sure.

[WarWarWar]

4 hours ago, Lunakitty said:

I agree with this. People can talk about it but it won't happen for sure.

i think there is few games that fliped the switch and made the game p2p its never too late they can do it if they want, i personally rather have this game as p2p so that  would be paying for much better stuff like outfits and more events for paying players, i started this game as a free player cuz they said it wil be a f2p game and putting too much money wont change your progress in the game, but now it became a p2w game having gems exclusively in F10 and no other way to get them is not cool

and before someone jump in and tell me check HM store or currency exchange i would say don't make me laugh, i don't use currency exchange at all cuz selling my gold for too cheap is a no go for me, but i do use the HM store from time to time when i need some inv pouches and such, but i can never buy any of the RNG boxes they have released and i believe they alrdy released like what 6 or 7 boxes so far? 97% of free players got to just look whats inside these boxes, i never did really bother and i'm not too stressed about it i choose to play for free cuz in my mindset this was a free game that u can buy occasionally stuff that u need from store like inv stuff,and some dungeon resets, potions,outfits etc.. but now its all about these rng boxes nothing else matter in the store suddenly, this game should flip the switch to be p2p so we can get stuff that we need i would not gamble and pay too much for stuff not like this.

[iritsuchan]

If it mean better rng and no rng boxes from store, then sure.

[Lunakitty]

42 minutes ago, WarWarWar said:

but now it became a p2w game having gems exclusively in F10 and no other way to get them is not cool

I think they mentioned there will be event for f2p players so they can get the gems also in that way. People have the habit of jumping into conclusion after first day just because there is item that appeared for the first time.

[Nilkemios]

On 7/8/2016 at 3:50 PM, Ethria said:

Aion worked perfectly for 3 whole years as p2p till 2012.

And? They still dropped it in the end for free-to-play, so it clearly didn't work "perfectly". And it's 2016, so they've gone at least 3 years not being free to play now by what you've said.

 

On 7/8/2016 at 3:50 PM, Ethria said:

Tera (released at 2012) had the best p2p model (you could purchase premium ingame with gold) and the publisher was one of the best I'd seen till that point (patches/fixes on time, true communication with the players etc) but had the worst community ever which drove the less stronger players away thus the f2p.

Then that's another sign of the subscription not working if it was dropped in the end. And from what I've seen of the community now, it's certainly better than Aion or Blade and Soul have ever been. No gold seller spam or bot trains either.

 

On 7/8/2016 at 3:50 PM, Ethria said:

Wildstar..well..its wildstar the whole game sucks.

Point is, the subscription didn't help it or make it "better"...I think you're agreeing with me a bit now.

On 7/8/2016 at 3:50 PM, Ethria said:

Its the gaming community which became cheap, that's why all games sucks the past few years, cause this "new generation" of gamers is mostly crap. And all started at 2012-2013. I remember people going in forums of p2p games and make threads like: "Is it f2p yet? Cause I ain't playing if its not."

Considering the crap that goes on in real life, I'm sure there's many reasons for why the gaming community got "cheap". In any case, my start on Guild Wars 2 showed me that one doesn't need a subscription to make a good game. And, there's one other model people on this thread seem to be forgetting, the buy to play mode, which in my opinion is the best overall for both developer/publisher and the consumer.

[Nilkemios]

 

Continued, cause I didn't want to risk the other post getting erased by going to a new page..

On 7/8/2016 at 5:56 PM, GreenDestiny said:

As someone else already said you are wrong. Aion was a far better game when it had a subscription based model. Making it f2p ruined everything about it.

Wrong about subscriptions not improving games, or just Aion? I've already explained myself for the former. I will agree on Aion being utter garbage...but unless you care to explain how they messed things up so badly (or show a source for it), I have no reason to think the subscription helped at all.

[GreenDestiny]

2 hours ago, Nilkemios said:

 

Continued, cause I didn't want to risk the other post getting erased by going to a new page..

Wrong about subscriptions not improving games, or just Aion? I've already explained myself for the former. I will agree on Aion being utter garbage...but unless you care to explain how they messed things up so badly (or show a source for it), I have no reason to think the subscription helped at all.

I didn't play the other games you mentioned but as far as Aion goes here are a few of the things that changed after it was moved to a f2p model.

 

-The addition of RNG based events that basically require you to spend money to get anything decent out of them. Very similar to what BNS had right after launch.

-Changes to the game design itself which pressured players to spend money in order to compete in a gear and pvp sense. Before the f2p model was implemented everything was rewarded based on your playtime, not wallet.

-The mass influx of players from regions outside of the U.S. which seemed to degrade the friendliness of the community. I won't name the specific regions here.

-Many more players started hacking on "throw away" accounts because they know if they are caught they can easily create another.

-The lack of official moderation and support from NCSoft. 

 

As someone that played both the p2p and f2p model and saw the changes that occurred first hand I would rather see games at least attempt a p2p model first.

[DomiSotto]

Please, just re-vamp the Subscription benefits to make the game playable and then people can chose what to do. The HM skills for Bravery was a step in right direction. Cut the costs further, increase the gold drops from laughable to significant, add HM coins drops for subs, etc.

 

Since innumerable people advocate how it is all totally cool now, I am sure they can keep going on f2p and 8 hrs a day on a game just fine.

 

We need middle class in this game who can actually enjoy the game at the time commitment that a grown-up life allows, and we need a stable, assured method of getting there for the adult gamers with sufficient cash flow to pay 15-20$ per month and who do not have a gambling streak and compulsion to throw a few hundred on a game in hopes of hitting a jack-pot with the RNG events.

 

Buying gold from other players is a completely wrong model.

[Tsuchiryu]

On 09/07/2016 at 4:47 AM, Nattia said:

I would love p2p, I hate gambling.

And you think game going P2P would mean no gambling? Cute, but wrong. These aren't mutually exclusive.

 

Subscription model means nothing if game itself still is crappy. And no, it IS too late to change it to P2P now. Either start out as one or don't.