cat tank nerfed

[Enubis]

I sincerely doubt they would fix the issue per say. NA and EU is facing a huge problem, where by they are following 50 content patches for balancing but they don't have the 50 content to follow it up with. That is the biggest problem. They have no say, they are just following KR patches, except they jumped the gun and went far ahead of the patch to balance the game like how KR did with 50 content all while 50 content is still locked away. So this game isn't balanced on level 45 situations, but level 50 situations that DOES not exist yet.

 

I hope this clarifies the issue better.

[Elvenmad]

2 minutes ago, Enubis said:

I sincerely doubt they would fix the issue per say. NA and EU is facing a huge problem, where by they are following 50 content patches for balancing but they don't have the 50 content to follow it up with. That is the biggest problem. They have no say, they are just following KR patches, except they jumped the gun and went far ahead of the patch to balance the game like how KR did with 50 content all while 50 content is still locked away. So this game isn't balanced on level 45 situations, but level 50 situations that DOES not exist yet.

 

I hope this clarifies the issue better.

 

 

 In another thread there was a dev reply from a players ticket concerning the cat and Doom and Bloom, and the reply clearlly states there were aware if this issue and it was NOT intended and are looking into it

[Enubis]

Ooh that is good to know!

 

I'm not aware of the dev response. Might be the bugged something up then! 

But yes as well tanking in this game isn't easy not one bit. I personally can't tank as a KFM mostly because

well, dodge tanking >.< Either way, let's hope they do fix this soon.

[Ango]

15 minutes ago, Yancha said:

 1.Doesnt exist in reasonable numbers

 

2.Assumption and fear monger

 

3.They can and have been balanced separately and ell for the most part

 

 

Can we agree on this at least

 

1. Numbers are irrelevant in this context since I'm simply pointing that the people I am addressing  wouldn't like the result of what they proclaim they would like to see.

 

2. Of course it is an assumption. The whole paragraph is a sarcastic remark about the constant 'nerf pls!!' posts. It has nothing whatsoever to do with fearmongering.

 

3. Og course they can be balanced seperately but(!) You can't balance pvp without taking pve into consideration, because we're using the same set of skills for both. The problem, I think, is that you misunderstand what I mean when I say  you have to 'take pve into consideration'. You can't just change a skill that is overpowered in pvp (for example) without thinking about whether or not that same skill is essential to a class's survival in pve. So yes, I stand by what I said. You have to consider both and make changes accordingly. A class's selfheal might be overpowered in pvp but that doesn't mean it is overpowered pve as well, so you have to allow for exceptions. Simply nerfing a skill without making exceptions often leads to very poor results.

 

[Tupan]

You got nerfed and FM got broken in PVE...people with like 2 stages above me and much better of everything struggle hard to keep agro...and in general FM pve is broken now...you mad kittens?

[Yancha]

On 2/12/2016 at 7:34 AM, Ango said:

 

1. Numbers are irrelevant in this context since I'm simply pointing that the people I am addressing  wouldn't like the result of what they proclaim they would like to see.

 

2. Of course it is an assumption. The whole paragraph is a sarcastic remark about the constant 'nerf pls!!' posts. It has nothing whatsoever to do with fearmongering.

 

3. Og course they can be balanced seperately but(!) You can't balance pvp without taking pve into consideration, because we're using the same set of skills for both. The problem, I think, is that you misunderstand what I mean when I say  you have to 'take pve into consideration'. You can't just change a skill that is overpowered in pvp (for example) without thinking about whether or not that same skill is essential to a class's survival in pve. So yes, I stand by what I said. You have to consider both and make changes accordingly. A class's selfheal might be overpowered in pvp but that doesn't mean it is overpowered pve as well, so you have to allow for exceptions. Simply nerfing a skill without making exceptions often leads to very poor results.

 

1. The why make the point about a non issue with an imaginary irrelevant opponent without wanting to get people to bandwagon onto the idea?

 

2. Youre grouping 2 lumps of imaginary people together here. Again its not realistic so its fear mongering

 

3. They could be almost entirely different. This is really a non issue either way. Its been dealt with already and no reasonable change would put a game like this through one way or the other

[KyoXai]

ahahahahha

[Ango]

7 minutes ago, Yancha said:

1. The why make the point about a non issue with an imaginary irrelevant opponent without wanting to get people to bandwagon onto the idea?

 

2. Youre grouping 2 lumps of imaginary people together here. Again its not realistic so its fear mongering

 

3. They could be almost entirely different. This is really a non issue either way. Its been dealt with already and no reasonable change would put a game like this through one way or the other

Good grief,  I was simply addressing some of the posts I saw in this thread.  I have no agenda, there is no bandwagon to join and the Illuminati aren't out to get you either.

I, however, am out of here. Feel free to reply yet again but know in advance that I won't read it.

 

[Rhokdelar180]

9 minutes ago, Ango said:

Good grief,  I was simply addressing some of the posts I saw in this thread.  I have no agenda, there is no bandwagon to join and the Illuminati aren't out to get you either.

I, however, am out of here. Feel free to reply yet again but know in advance that I won't read it.

 

Ango do not waste your time on this guy.  From his posts he is just here to be a keyboard warrior and argue with other players.  Lets leave the attention seeker alone.

[Yancha]

On 2/12/2016 at 8:22 AM, Ango said:

Good grief,  I was simply addressing some of the posts I saw in this thread.  I have no agenda, there is no bandwagon to join and the Illuminati aren't out to get you either.

I, however, am out of here. Feel free to reply yet again but know in advance that I won't read it.

 

Even if not directly youre contributing to it

 

I dont believe in conspiracy theories

 

I believe in poorly formed ideas that lead people to threads like these white knighting on either side

 

 

On 2/12/2016 at 8:32 AM, Rhokdelar180 said:

Ango do not waste your time on this guy.  From his posts he is just here to be a keyboard warrior and argue with other players.  Lets leave the attention seeker alone.

If you have a point to make then make it

 

If youre just going to ignore anythign said against you people you dont really have a right to an opinion

 

If you think im wrong then say so instead of increasing your post count

 

Thats what im saying

[AmbivalentCat]

1 hour ago, OniOfTheSword said:

A lot of people are still learning their classes. Until recently, as a BM, I was horrible at tanking. I thought that by taking the threat paths of Cyclone and 5-point strike, I would auto-hold aggro just by using them. But turns out, I have to constantly keep up high dps at the same time, which isn't the easiest thing to do as a BM. And even after I get aggro and position myself by using my Q/E such that the other players are behind the boss, some still manage to die from aoes since they're mostly just trying to faceroll the boss.

 

Just give it time for other players to catch up and learn their classes/boss mechanics. The game is still new to the vast majority of the players who haven't played other versions or betas, so it's to be expected. As for summoners themselves, I hope the fix arrives soon so it becomes easier for the ones who find it hard.

 

Yeah, that's fair. Like I said, if a tank actually tries to hold aggro, I'll let them even if I pull it sometimes (though often they don't hold aggro on groups of mobs, in which case I have to taunt or die since AoE sunflower is crazy aggro). I understand people are still learning their class. Unfortunately, most of the KFM/BMs I've partied with actually expect me to tank...as if they're not meant to. I'll wait for them to pull, and all I get is a "go summoner." Literally got put in a 4 BM party once, and not a single one of them wanted to tank. If it were me, I'd want to at least attempt it - it is true that you can't learn to tank and hold aggro without trying it at some point.

 

I wish there were more people like you in cross server that wanted practice and wanted to learn to manage aggro better, but that's not the case with like 90% of the tanks I get matched with. Sunflower doesn't have a threat decrease, so our aggro generation is insanely high - especially at lower levels when we have super high crit chance with just low level Hongmoon weapons. The only time I could actually utilize my 5 stack Sunflower buff - except for with those two tanks that could hold aggro - was with my cat taunting. Otherwise aggro would stick to me and stay on me, and we can't survive for long on bosses that resist a lot of CC when we're being focused.

[OniOfTheSword]

8 minutes ago, AmbivalentCat said:

 

Yeah, that's fair. Like I said, if a tank actually tries to hold aggro, I'll let them even if I pull it sometimes (though often they don't hold aggro on groups of mobs, in which case I have to taunt or die since AoE sunflower is crazy aggro). I understand people are still learning their class. Unfortunately, most of the KFM/BMs I've partied with actually expect me to tank...as if they're not meant to. I'll wait for them to pull, and all I get is a "go summoner." Literally got put in a 4 BM party once, and not a single one of them wanted to tank. If it were me, I'd want to at least attempt it - it is true that you can't learn to tank and hold aggro without trying it at some point.

 

I wish there were more people like you in cross server that wanted practice and wanted to learn to manage aggro better, but that's not the case with like 90% of the tanks I get matched with. Sunflower doesn't have a threat decrease, so our aggro generation is insanely high - especially at lower levels when we have super high crit chance with just low level Hongmoon weapons. The only time I could actually utilize my 5 stack Sunflower buff - except for with those two tanks that could hold aggro - was with my cat taunting. Otherwise aggro would stick to me and stay on me, and we can't survive for long on bosses that resist a lot of CC when we're being focused.

Persistence is something that many gamers today don't have - this is an unfortunate fact, something we're just going to have to deal with.

 

The best advice I can give you is, try to befriend a good tank whom you can do your daily dungeons with on a regular basis, or perhaps someone from your clan. Then you can use cross server to clear your daily runs(Bsh6(maybe)+Poh6+4blues+Skyhaven stockade if you want a quick 34s) quickly, even if the rest happens to be random, since you have a reliable tank/semi-dps in your friend/clan member, and a reliable dps in you. Good luck to you ^^

[sFielD0T100]

All these people complaining cause summoners hold aggro and they want to be the star of the show and cant take aggro. Pfft even with the nerf, nobody can take aggro from me. You guys think we are useless without our cat? Please, I carry you, your friends, and your mom through with just my sunflower. Scrubs who dont even know what they are talking about should stay put like a good boy. I welcome the change, more challenging and just proves im better and other classes can no longer whine and cry about OMFG SUMNS SO EAZY WITH CAT TANK ALL DAY. 

 

Just wait till next patch, and ninja nerf their classes. They'll all come on the here to cry about their nerfs instead of just dealing with it and improvising. 

[Fufia]

Why 90% of ppl in this topic dont know shit about summ or another class?

Why ppl cant read?

Why ppl think is beter just for play kfm?

Why ppl pretends to be pro when all can see is just 1 more nab

nvm i know this is a mmo forum just kids! (kid is not by age you can have 80 and be a kid for me)

[Ghennkins]

Hi. I didn't read anything cept about the cat taunt nerf that seems to only be a problem on Mushin F7? C'mon... there are 13 pages and I don't play a summoner.

 

I will say this... I main BM and it's the only class I've played since launch. Each day I regret not picking an easy mode pve ranged class that can solo endgame content to farm gold easier than the other classes. Imho... BM is the worst class in the game right now. press F11 (PVP ranking hotkey if it isn't F11) and go to the "All Classes" tab. Now count the number of BMs in the top 50. The only way we can do non-pathetic damage is to stay in draw stance. If we block, taken out of draw stance. To stay in draw stance, you HAVE to i-frame eeeeeverything perfectly which makes it seem off that the class difficulty rating isn't a solid 5 stars... but then you run out of focus super fast and back to basic stance. I lean heavily on the true profane effect to proc just to do acceptable damage because focus recovery is a pita, and if it doesn't... ugh. It's a struggle to say the least.

 

Also consider Summoner is the top most popular and played class in the NA version by quite a big margin (can't imagine why >_>) and that the amount of gold you need to progress at endgame quickly becomes enormous. 25 moonwater stones for the progression hurdle I'm at currently. Pretty much going nowhere for weeks if I don't leave first to scummy business practices.

 

So gold is very much in demand and the path of least resistance to take is an easy mode pve soloing machine with it's own OP dedicated tank that holds aggro better than BM/KFM as others in this thread have said. Other players see this. They are not dumb. Most people will pick easy over difficult anyday. Summoner followed by Sin. Why play anything else? Jack of all trades master of all. That's the fast track to success atm. NCSoft probably has the metrics on their end and felt something had to be done before the game turned into Summoner and Soul. Soon, you can convert gold to premium currency. Gold gold gold. Everything revolves around it in this game and the ability to make it easily... like solo farming Brightstone in 6 minutes.

 

Thus nerf. One class dominating too many facets of the game diminishes any incentive to play the others.

[Alucius]

OMG, solo farming brightstone in 6 mins, please teach me your black magic.

[Jcdew67]

 What makes a person "salty" as you call it is when developers change things that were working fine and provide no explanation as to why and in the process enter new bugs. They clearly did not test these changes or did a poor job of it.

[Mesmerize]

23 minutes ago, Azunda said:

Is this shit for real they know about the problem since Thursday whats so hard about fixing this crap. 

NCwest isn't the game developer, they're publishers. Bugs like these need a client fix from Korea, and they can't do anything until they deliver it.

[Azunda]

9 minutes ago, Mesmerize said:

NCwest isn't the game developer, they're publishers. Bugs like these need a client fix from Korea, and they can't do anything until they deliver it.

Holy crap so we will have to wait even longer for a fix IF there is one.

[Faraday]

19 hours ago, AmbivalentCat said:

 

Yeah, that's fair. Like I said, if a tank actually tries to hold aggro, I'll let them even if I pull it sometimes (though often they don't hold aggro on groups of mobs, in which case I have to taunt or die since AoE sunflower is crazy aggro). I understand people are still learning their class. Unfortunately, most of the KFM/BMs I've partied with actually expect me to tank...as if they're not meant to. I'll wait for them to pull, and all I get is a "go summoner." Literally got put in a 4 BM party once, and not a single one of them wanted to tank. If it were me, I'd want to at least attempt it - it is true that you can't learn to tank and hold aggro without trying it at some point.

 

I wish there were more people like you in cross server that wanted practice and wanted to learn to manage aggro better, but that's not the case with like 90% of the tanks I get matched with. Sunflower doesn't have a threat decrease, so our aggro generation is insanely high - especially at lower levels when we have super high crit chance with just low level Hongmoon weapons. The only time I could actually utilize my 5 stack Sunflower buff - except for with those two tanks that could hold aggro - was with my cat taunting. Otherwise aggro would stick to me and stay on me, and we can't survive for long on bosses that resist a lot of CC when we're being focused.

 

As a KFM capable of tanking I've been living the exact opposite situation: more often than not summoners won't stop taunting even after I ask them to. What happens next is that my focus regen and dps suffers, I can't stack searing palm efficiently, their dps suffers, and if that wasn't enough, bosses are often messed up by taunts. (and unfortunately no matter how much aggro you generate, taunt will always reset it)

Wish more summoners would just stop having their pets tank and force KFMs/BMs to do their job.

[sFielD0T100]

16 minutes ago, Faraday said:

 

Wish more summoners would just stop having their pets tank and force KFMs/BMs to do their job.

You might be confident and competent as a KFM but that isnt the case with the majority of the population. I give every BM and KFM a chance to tank but most times they fail to because after just 1 rotation of my sunflower I rip aggro right off and I have my tail chased around the map because the BM/KFM doesnt want my cat to be in tank mode. So all the while im running around trying to evade attacks the KFM/BM are also running after the boss now trying to get aggro back. So this can go both ways when you say dps suffer. Since playing from day 1, ive maybe come across 2-3 BM/KFM that actually could hold aggro. 2-3 in a span of a month isnt noteworthy for me to "force" these players to learn their class by gimping myself and being liability to my team as a whole. 

[Jenocide]

I see some people complaining about when the summoner taunts while they're trying to tank.  I understand there are some summoners who do it and don't care about anything it's affecting.  BUT, there are also summoners like me.  If I see a BM or KFM in party, I ask them if they're tanking.  If they are, I simply don't taunt.  However, if I see they're not holding aggro and squish classes like summoner and force master are taking aggro and large amounts of damage, I taunt.  While it sucks, I come across COUNTLESS KFM's and BM's who simply just do not tank, therefore leaving the majority of summoners no choice but to protect themselves and the rest of the party.  While boxing all of us into the same "Scummoner" category sucks, I suggest fellow summoners not to be bothered, there's a class who catches grief like this in every mmorpg, and you should just simply ignore it.

[Syem]

Yea, i tested that taunt and many times boss attack me after 4-6 seconds and sometimes taunt is not working. I press taunt and cat is exactly besides boss, i see there the taunt timer 11...10 and boss jump on me. And this comment *cricket* me off "If you get the aggro then that means you are just like every other player". Seriously? Let me explain why this taunt is so important. All other classes have or HP or Defense or Stealth or Evasion or many escape skills who help them to take damage and at the same time to do damage. Summoner does not have any of that... no HP, no defense, no evasion and 1 escape skill. That cat is all we have to do PVE, without it is just useless class because we die instantly. This is one example... if i do Mushin tower because you are alone there, i command the cat to jump on boss, boss attack the cat, if the cat lose aggro boss will jump on me so i need to run if he doesn't kill me... run and try to press TAB and taunt him cat again.. if you try to heal the cat and me with F, boss will jump on me again after few seconds because you do damage and again run... TAB... taunt and finally cat or you will die. Now just think if is 1 boss with some mobs around him example Mushin 3F...

 

Cat with damage is not an option for boss because she will die quickly. So yea, good bye summoner, i go back to my BD.

[Jenocide]

Just now, Syem said:

Yea, i tested that taunt and many times boss attack me after 4-6 seconds and sometimes taunt is not working. I press taunt and cat is exactly besides boss, i see there the taunt timer 11...10 and boss jump on me. And this comment *cricket* me off "If you get the aggro then that means you are just like every other player". Seriously? Let me explain why this taunt is so important. All other classes have or HP or Defense or Stealth or Evasion or many escape skills who help them to take damage and at the same time to do damage. Summoner does not have any of that... no HP, no defense, no evasion and 1 escape skill. That cat is all we have to do PVE, without it is just useless class because we die instantly. This is actual situation for me... if i do Mushin tower because you are alone there, i command the cat to jump on boss, boss attack the cat, if the cat lose aggro boss will jump on me so i need to run if he doesn't kill me... run and try to press TAB and taunt him cat again.. if you try to heal the cat and me with F, boss will jump on me again after few seconds because you do damage and again run... TAB... taunt and finally cat or you will die. Now just think if is 1 boss with some mobs around him example Mushin 3F...

 

Cat with damage is not an option for boss because she will die quickly. So yea, good bye summoner, i go back to my BD.

 

 

In my ticket they said there would be an update for the fix soon.

[xarallei]

Yeah this crap is terrible. For solo content and even dungeons sometimes. I don't know how many times I've been in cross dungeon and might be in a group with like 2 kfms and 2 bms and NONE of them are tanking and I pull aggro and have to use my cat. Now my cat can't hold aggro. Given the random nature of the cross dungeon this is very problematic.