Our Progression System: Why Gold Reductions are Necessary

[Rmccn08]

[NOTICE]

Follow this thread and turn on your notifications! There is a lot of good ideas and information being passed around here.

 

 

 

First, let me explain why gold is not an issue at all.  Gold is only needed for upgrading, crafting, and transmutation costs, as well as a few minor items, like Legendary Elements and Legendary Jewels. Most of the items that you need can be obtained by crafting or farming the items via the "various" forms of content. For what we need gold for, the amount we get from daily and weekly content I believe is sufficient. I agree with gold reduction. Imagine if they never reduced the amount of gold you could receive in-game. Players would have lots of gold at their disposal. If players were to take that gold and purchase items from the marketplace like sacred oils, pet pods, or premium transformation stones at the prices they are at now, the market would crash immediately. The supply-demand ratio would be completely unbalanced. The reason why certain items are sold by players at an extremely high rate is not that there's not enough gold in-game, it's because the amount of time, materials, and gold needed to craft these items are high and the player needs to make some sort of return on the item they just obtained, crafted or transmuted. Yes, you need gold to craft and transmute a lot of items, but, if our progression system was structured better, that small amount of gold would be nothing for the average player to obtain. This leads me to my main point. Our progression system is the reason why we as a player base, whether new or veteran, cannot progress in a reasonable, normal, and enjoyable fashion.

 

 

 

Let's break this down

 

 

 

Most of the gear we need, in some form or fashion, requires 4 items:

Moonstone/Crystals

 

Soul stones/Crystals

 

Elysian Orbs/Crystals

 

Sacred Orbs/Crystals

 

Now we all know that Sacred Orbs and Elysian Orbs can be easily obtained from dungeons and other forms of content, but not Moonstones or Soul stones. Their crystal forms however(or their untradable forms), can be easily obtained.

 

Here is the big issue. A lot of our rare items like Sacred Oil, Premium Transformation Stones, Transformation Stones, Empyrean Spirit Stones, Pet stones, etc., require the tradable form of the item. Now I do not think there is anything wrong with this at all. But the reason why veterans and new players find themselves stuck in terms of progression is this.

 

 

Moonstones and Soul stones are not Farmable.

 

 

What do I mean by this? Well, let us take Naryu Coin for example. You can practically get it anywhere. But you are not going to get more than 5 Naryu Coin at one time. Whether from a daily quest, a mob drop, or a chest. However, because there is no cap on how much Naryu Coin you can obtain in a day, it would be very easy for any player to amount thousands and thousands of Naryu Coin because you can farm it with no restrictions whatsoever. Naryu Coin is farmable, not because you acquire a high quantity of the coins when they drop, but because you can continue to farm them as long as you want. This can be said for the crystal versions of Moonstones, soul stones, elysian orbs, and sacred orbs. These items, technically, are farmable. They drop from almost every dungeon in the game that was released after the level 50 update(I think). They can be obtained from the Celestial Basin, which is very old content. So, you can easily obtain peaches, and collect tons of pouches.

 

 

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the tradable versions. The tradable versions are not farmable. Moonstones and Soul stones, for the most part, are only obtained from daily quests. Once you complete those daily quests, there really is no way for you to continue to farm these items. Because these tradable items are necessary for many crafting recipes, transmutations, and upgrades, it has caused veterans who don't need a lot of these items anymore to hoard them and hold on to them for later updates to gear, or they sell these items on the market for a high price to justify the amount of time and materials needed to obtain moonstones and soul stones, or to craft items that require moonstones or soul stones to be crafted.

 

 

 

Now I know this is not the only problem with our progression system. We are all aware of the RNG mechanics, and unnecessary item upgrades that provide little to no benefit to the player. But this is something that needs to be addressed soon, or our player base will continue to fall at a rapid pace due to there being no way to for the average player to farm.

 

 

 

So, what is the suggestion?

Simple.

 

 

1. Remove Soul stone, Moonstone, Elysian, and Scared Crystals from the game [[Permanently]].

 

2. Take Moonstones, Soul stones, Elysian Orbs, and Sacred Orbs, and add these 4 items into All Material Chests.(Meaning Treasure pouches, hidden promises chests, Lucent promises chests, etc.)

 

3. Make Soul stones and Sacred Orbs a guaranteed drop from all material chests and give Moonstones and Sacred Orbs a reasonable chance of dropping from all material chests.

 

 

What you are doing is giving the player base the option to farm these items in small quantities, with no restrictions whatsoever. This will improve crafting, the marketplace, transmutation, and upgrading. This will also boost gold for the average player because players will no longer need to spend gold on certain items as often. But most importantly, this will give the newer players the resources to craft, transmute, and upgrade their gear. This is a small change, but this change alone would build a foundation that players need to gear up and enjoy the game.

 

 

Utmost respect and thanks to the support team -

 

[AdventFiya]

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by Rmccn08

[Grimoir]

3 hours ago, Rmccn08 said:

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said for the tradable versions. The tradable versions are not farmable. Moonstones and Soul stones, for the most part, are only obtained from daily quests. Once you complete those daily quests, there really is no way for you to continue to farm these items. Because these tradable items are necessary for many crafting recipes, transmutations, and upgrades, it has caused veterans who don't need a lot of these items anymore to hoard them and hold on to them for later updates to gear, or they sell these items on the market for a high price to justify the amount of time and materials needed to obtain moonstones and soul stones, or to craft items that require moonstones or soul stones to be crafted.

Moonstones and soulstones are farmable and have no limit. you just need to do PVP content for them as those are PVP linked items. If you do arena for soulstones and 6v6 for moonstones there is no limit to how many you can get. So i completely disagree with your point.

[CastielSeven]

yea um... no... just no...   the way it was before last patch was fine. Now its just a disaster

[Santa Anna]

7 hours ago, Rmccn08 said:

Now we all know that Sacred Orbs and Elysian Orbs can be easily obtained from dungeons and other forms of content, but not Moonstones or Soul stones. Their crystal forms however(or their untradable forms), can be easily obtained.

Here is the big issue. A lot of our rare items like Sacred Oil, Premium Transformation Stones, Transformation Stones, Empyrean Spirit Stones, Pet stones, etc., require the tradable form of the item. Now I do not think there is anything wrong with this at all. But the reason why veterans and new players find themselves stuck in terms of progression is this.

Moonstones and Soul stones are not Farmable.

 

The story is long if i have to write down ,but to be on subject you are wrong on what i quote.

Why ?

Well play smart not hard . Soulstone are so damn easy to get them pfff if i really want to get soulstone probably will be around 500-700x in 1 day 
   
    Soulstone SSP so easy and so many u get from there . Also do PVP always each day atleast the quests : 1 win and 3 matches per day ( you get 10x bloodstone and with 120x u can make 1x pet pod and sell with a profit of 80-130g if u buy all the tradable materials )  
     

    Moonstone yes here the only way is to do BG and don't give a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ about  if you don't have gear ,just take the story gear and go there 2-3h  and +/- in 3h should be 13-15 matches which even if u stay afk 4-7 will be win 

The main thing about collecting materials is to set up priorities : So i need that item for future transmute to make gold or to upgrade ,where i find it ?  in that spot ,so take 1 day and go there ,don't look around ,don't be like :" ohhh i have 10x alts and have to do dailies on all of them ,i don't have time for that 2-3h pvp "
 

[JoannaRamira]

So basically 90% of the explanation doesnt even touch the gold.  Yet it is "justified" to have a less amount of daily gold O-o.

 

I wonder if there would be those trying to justify another changes nobody asks in the game like reduced enrage timer...

[Rmccn08]

11 hours ago, Zuzuzuzuzu said:

The story is long if i have to write down ,but to be on subject you are wrong on what i quote.

Why ?

Well play smart not hard . Soulstone are so damn easy to get them pfff if i really want to get soulstone probably will be around 500-700x in 1 day 
   
    Soulstone SSP so easy and so many u get from there . Also do PVP always each day atleast the quests : 1 win and 3 matches per day ( you get 10x bloodstone and with 120x u can make 1x pet pod and sell with a profit of 80-130g if u buy all the tradable materials )  
     

    Moonstone yes here the only way is to do BG and don't give a ❤ ❤ ❤ ❤ about  if you don't have gear ,just take the story gear and go there 2-3h  and +/- in 3h should be 13-15 matches which even if u stay afk 4-7 will be win 

The main thing about collecting materials is to set up priorities : So i need that item for future transmute to make gold or to upgrade ,where i find it ?  in that spot ,so take 1 day and go there ,don't look around ,don't be like :" ohhh i have 10x alts and have to do dailies on all of them ,i don't have time for that 2-3h pvp "
 

Forgive my ignorance. I was not certain or not whether moonstones could be obtained from battlegrounds with no restrictions, and I also completely forgot about ssp. I will add these things to the post later. However, I would like to know whether you agree or disagree with my whole point which is streamlining these 4 items to make them more obtainable.

[Rmccn08]

1 hour ago, JoannaRamira said:

So basically 90% of the explanation doesnt even touch the gold.  Yet it is "justified" to have a less amount of daily gold O-o.

 

I wonder if there would be those trying to justify another changes nobody asks in the game like reduced enrage timer...

Well, let me see if I can clear this up. My entire post has to do with the progression system and why it is a real problem. I believe the reason people have so little gold is that they feel the need to buy everything from the market, rather than just crafting and transmuting the equipment themselves. It's not easy to craft everything you need, and with the changes I suggested above, I think that would make a big difference. I would like to know if you agree or disagree with my suggestion for the progression system.

[Rmccn08]

16 hours ago, CastielSeven said:

yea um... no... just no...   the way it was before last patch was fine. Now its just a disaster

If you could, can you elaborate on why you disagree with my explanation?

[Rmccn08]

18 hours ago, Grimoir said:

Moonstones and soulstones are farmable and have no limit. you just need to do PVP content for them as those are PVP linked items. If you do arena for soulstones and 6v6 for moonstones there is no limit to how many you can get. So i completely disagree with your point.

Let's dive into this a little more. I believe that because the items are required for both PVP and PVE, they should not be obtainable from just one form of content. It doesn't have to be a lot, but I think that these items should be obtainable through other forms of content. The reason is not really for the sake of veterans, but for the sake of newer players. Items that are a foundation of pretty much all the items in-game, should be obtainable through all different forms of content.

[Grimoir]

32 minutes ago, Rmccn08 said:

Let's dive into this a little more. I believe that because the items are required for both PVP and PVE, they should not be obtainable from just one form of content. It doesn't have to be a lot, but I think that these items should be obtainable through other forms of content. The reason is not really for the sake of veterans, but for the sake of newer players. Items that are a foundation of pretty much all the items in-game, should be obtainable through all different forms of content.

Blade and Soul, unlike other games, is focused on players having to do both contents to progress. Whether they enjoy it or not. PVE players need to do PVP content for soulstones / moonstones and in return PVP players have to do PVE content for Elysian Orbs, Sacred Orbs and for the accessories. This is a balance. PVP players cna sell moonstones / soulstones and use the gold to buy the other orbs they need and vice versa with PVE players. The fact most want to take the easy way out and buy them instead of farming is something you cannot control and thats what dictates the prices.

 

As for the other crystal materials....they are already so easy to get with minimal effort even, even by simply afk fishing.

[Rmccn08]

2 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Blade and Soul, unlike other games, is focused on players having to do both contents to progress. Whether they enjoy it or not. PVE players need to do PVP content for soulstones / moonstones and in return PVP players have to do PVE content for Elysian Orbs, Sacred Orbs and for the accessories. This is a balance. PVP players cna sell moonstones / soulstones and use the gold to buy the other orbs they need and vice versa with PVE players. The fact most want to take the easy way out and buy them instead of farming is something you cannot control and thats what dictates the prices.

 

As for the other crystal materials....they are already so easy to get with minimal effort even, even by simply afk fishing.

What you have just explained I believe is the reason for Blade and Soul's player base dying. I do not believe that this creates balance. This has instead caused prices on these items to be extremely high because the items themselves are not available enough to be farmed. I think this problem arose once sacred orbs and elysian orbs, along with their crystal forms, were added to the game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only upgrades that do not require these 4 items are badges. Meaning all around the board, PVP gear and PVE gear, in some form or fashion, require these 4 items. If would be different if they only served a certain purpose, but they are literally the building blocks for almost every upgrade in-game.

 

22 hours ago, Rmccn08 said:

Because these tradable items are necessary for many crafting recipes, transmutations, and upgrades, it has caused veterans who don't need a lot of these items anymore to hoard them and hold on to them for later updates to gear, or they sell these items on the market for a high price to justify the amount of time and materials needed to obtain moonstones and soul stones, or to craft items that require moonstones or soul stones to be crafted.

This just furthers my point. The community is so concerned about gold. But the items you buy from the market with gold were either farmed, crafted, transmuted or won as a reward. If we have more gold than the materials available, we aren't going to get anywhere.

 

 

I can't remember exactly what the change was, but back in 2017, a change was made to the sacred oil transmuting recipe, that caused the sacred oils to skyrocket in price. I believe it had something to do with nerfing evolve stones or something, but I remember you could obtain a sacred oil before that patch for around 180 - 220 gold. These are the kind of changes I think should be reverted. The changes that cause inflation of certain items.

 

Also, let me be clear, I don't have a problem with the crystal materials. I made this very clear in my post

23 hours ago, Rmccn08 said:

This can be said for the crystal versions of Moonstones, soul stones, elysian orbs, and sacred orbs. These items, technically, are farmable. They drop from almost every dungeon in the game that was released after the level 50 update(I think). They can be obtained from the Celestial Basin, which is very old content. So, you can easily obtain peaches, and collect tons of pouches.

I hear what you are saying. It could become too easy to farm these materials. But that's why you regulate the amount you can get from each form of content. My question to you is, if this is not a major issue with the games progression, then could you give an example of what is? For example why reverting original gold would fix our marketplace?

[KzE]

6 minutes ago, Rmccn08 said:

What you have just explained I believe is the reason for Blade and Soul's player base dying. I do not believe that this creates balance. This has instead caused prices on these items to be extremely high because the items themselves are not available enough to be farmed.

Players quit, because the game gets worse with every single patch. More leave, less people farm, but from patch to patch you need more mats... prices go up.

[Grimoir]

9 minutes ago, Rmccn08 said:

What you have just explained I believe is the reason for Blade and Soul's player base dying. I do not believe that this creates balance. This has instead caused prices on these items to be extremely high because the items themselves are not available enough to be farmed. I think this problem arose once sacred orbs and elysian orbs, along with their crystal forms, were added to the game. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only upgrades that do not require these 4 items are badges. Meaning all around the board, PVP gear and PVE gear, in some form or fashion, require these 4 items. If would be different if they only served a certain purpose, but they are literally the building blocks for almost every upgrade in-game.

You forget that Elysian orbs and Sacred orbs are just updated versions of items from the past that were far more harder to get. Compared to now you get more then en ough of those from just doing teh content.

As for the game dying, its not because people have to do both, or because there is no way to farm them or because prices on items are too high. The game is dying mainly due to performance problems and optimizations  followed by poorly balanced PVP. Those are the reasons nothing more.

The prices of the items are dictated by supply and demand like all others. The difference is most players refuse to do PVP, hence the PVP obtainable materials are a bit more expensive.

However that the balance again. Those 2 materials are the only gold income a PVP p[layer has, there is nothing more from PVP they can sell while PVE players have raids, materials and other items obtained mainly through PVE only. I would actually even say PVP players get the short end of the stick here.

You need to look at the entire picture and not just a part of it. Badges also require materials that PVP players can only get either from market or through PVE. and while yes both gears require these materials they are actually pretty evenly split between the two.

16 minutes ago, Rmccn08 said:

I hear what you are saying. It could become too easy to farm these materials. But that's why you regulate the amount you can get from each form of content. My question to you is, if this is not a major issue with the games progression, then could you give an example of what is? For example why reverting original gold would fix our marketplace?

reverting original gold will not fix the problem not now not ever. The problem is there is too much gold on the server which means the value of gold is very very low. Thats why you see some prices increase. they are just taking a wrong approach into fixing this.

 

19 minutes ago, Rmccn08 said:

I can't remember exactly what the change was, but back in 2017, a change was made to the sacred oil transmuting recipe, that caused the sacred oils to skyrocket in price. I believe it had something to do with nerfing evolve stones or something, but I remember you could obtain a sacred oil before that patch for around 180 - 220 gold. These are the kind of changes I think should be reverted. The changes that cause inflation of certain items.

 

The problem with Sacred oils came mainly due to the replacement of the old demon spirit stones with the new variants, and that also combined with a new soul or heart tier that was released at that time caused the prices to go up because the wealthy were simply buying them out to a point the marketplace didnt have any oils for a while. Then with the gold influx those prices never went down.

 

 

[Belido]

Well at least another one enjoys the gold reduction mess...so we may have at least 10 player enjoying this...

 

After market been flooded by Trove we are back to normal with the prices of our basics, so no reasonable price reduction from that gold reduction mess.

 

The only true change I see is F9, we had 11 pages of 1k gold offers before, but recently were are down to 6 pages. But did this help? No! Selling Gold on F9 became way harder then before and my guess is: way ppls just don't want to blow their $$$ into a sinking ship and hell, I am far from using my CC as well atm. Everyone who's using F8 for daily's like me will know that feeling.

 

And as I said before, ofc this changes been taking out a lot of gold from this game, but right from those who just left the game and took  their gold with em. And this will help with nothing.

[Rmccn08]

2 hours ago, Grimoir said:

You forget that Elysian orbs and Sacred orbs are just updated versions of items from the past that were far more harder to get. Compared to now you get more then en ough of those from just doing teh content.

As for the game dying, its not because people have to do both, or because there is no way to farm them or because prices on items are too high. The game is dying mainly due to performance problems and optimizations  followed by poorly balanced PVP. Those are the reasons nothing more.

The prices of the items are dictated by supply and demand like all others. The difference is most players refuse to do PVP, hence the PVP obtainable materials are a bit more expensive.

However that the balance again. Those 2 materials are the only gold income a PVP p[layer has, there is nothing more from PVP they can sell while PVE players have raids, materials and other items obtained mainly through PVE only. I would actually even say PVP players get the short end of the stick here.

You need to look at the entire picture and not just a part of it. Badges also require materials that PVP players can only get either from market or through PVE. and while yes both gears require these materials they are actually pretty evenly split between the two.

reverting original gold will not fix the problem not now not ever. The problem is there is too much gold on the server which means the value of gold is very very low. Thats why you see some prices increase. they are just taking a wrong approach into fixing this.

 

The problem with Sacred oils came mainly due to the replacement of the old demon spirit stones with the new variants, and that also combined with a new soul or heart tier that was released at that time caused the prices to go up because the wealthy were simply buying them out to a point the marketplace didnt have any oils for a while. Then with the gold influx those prices never went down.

 

 

I hear what you're saying, but I feel like your glossing over the fact that everyone who plays the game, no matter if they do PVP, or PVE, needs these items. And since they are required for everything, if there were more forms of farming these items with no restrictions, the bottom line is that the demand for them would lower, because there's more than one way to farm the items. And that would mean you the player would not be spending as much gold in the marketplace. As you said, market prices are based on Supply and Demand. If there is a Larger supply of items(dungeons, world bosses, faction conflict, raids, arena, battlegrounds, etc), then wouldn't the demand be lower? I think it would be. Remember my entire suggestion was to remove the crystal forms completely from the game and wherever those crystal forms could be farmed, replace them with the noncrystal, tradable forms with a balanced drop rate for elysian orbs and crystals. You cannot deny that if these items being the core foundation of progression were implemented in this way, it would significantly reduce gold problems around the board. I'm trying to explain why gold is hard to hold onto.

 

Yes, I do believe optimization has been a problem for Blade and Soul for years. But I do not believe that is the core issue as to why the game is dying. I can't really speak on PVP balance because I do not know. But what I do know is this.

 

As a new player finishing the storyline, it is nearly impossible for them to gear up because of the current environment. And when a new player, looks at slow faction chat, an empty cross-server lobby, high gear requirements for pugs and other forms of content, do you think they are going to stick around to figure what to do? No, they log off, uninstall the game, and go play something else. We do not keep the game alive. At the end of the day, you and I will stop playing this game at a certain point because its either become boring or were just sick of the mess. But the ultimate goal is that newer players continue to sign up, download, and play the game themselves. That's how you keep the game alive. And I believe our progression system is the core reason for that. I understand if you do not believe that and we can agree to disagree. Our game is full of old veterans sick and tired of the wrong decisions being made for the game, and a small group of new players that's starting to become extinct.

[Rmccn08]

2 hours ago, Belido said:

Well at least another one enjoys the gold reduction mess...so we may have at least 10 player enjoying this...

 

After market been flooded by Trove we are back to normal with the prices of our basics, so no reasonable price reduction from that gold reduction mess.

 

The only true change I see is F9, we had 11 pages of 1k gold offers before, but recently were are down to 6 pages. But did this help? No! Selling Gold on F9 became way harder then before and my guess is: way ppls just don't want to blow their $$$ into a sinking ship and hell, I am far from using my CC as well atm. Everyone who's using F8 for daily's like me will know that feeling.

 

And as I said before, ofc this changes been taking out a lot of gold from this game, but right from those who just left the game and took  their gold with em. And this will help with nothing.

I think your misunderstanding my concern. We need gold, but reducing gold is not a big deal. Please re-read the post so you can see my opinion on the progression system, and how that ties into gold consumption.

[Grimoir]

3 hours ago, Rmccn08 said:

I hear what you're saying, but I feel like your glossing over the fact that everyone who plays the game, no matter if they do PVP, or PVE, needs these items. And since they are required for everything, if there were more forms of farming these items with no restrictions, the bottom line is that the demand for them would lower, because there's more than one way to farm the items. And that would mean you the player would not be spending as much gold in the marketplace. As you said, market prices are based on Supply and Demand. If there is a Larger supply of items(dungeons, world bosses, faction conflict, raids, arena, battlegrounds, etc), then wouldn't the demand be lower? I think it would be. Remember my entire suggestion was to remove the crystal forms completely from the game and wherever those crystal forms could be farmed, replace them with the noncrystal, tradable forms with a balanced drop rate for elysian orbs and crystals. You cannot deny that if these items being the core foundation of progression were implemented in this way, it would significantly reduce gold problems around the board. I'm trying to explain why gold is hard to hold onto.

Removing teh crystal forms would make everything far more worse. Before the Crystal versions were introduced we had the raw materials only and it was a living nightmare to farm enough for all upgrades. Releasing the crystal versions made everything much more easier and far more obtainable for both newer players and veterans. So the situation you are suggesting, well we have been there and done that and it was horrible.

 

You are still only focused on one part of it. If moonstones / soulstones would be obtainable through PVE, PVP players would not be able to upgrade anything because they would simply not have any gold income. The sole reason why players spend so much money in the marketplace is because they do not want to farm the materials period. They are incredibly easy to get, especially soulstones since those have no gear requirement in arena.

Gold is not hard to hold onto, in fact it is incredibly easy to make gold however most players base their gold income purely on weeklies and dailies and thats where they stop, they do not invest the extra time into farming the items which they can turn into a very decent profit. This isnt a progression issue, its a player issue.

 

3 hours ago, Rmccn08 said:

Yes, I do believe optimization has been a problem for Blade and Soul for years. But I do not believe that is the core issue as to why the game is dying. I can't really speak on PVP balance because I do not know. But what I do know is this.

As suprising as it is that is the core issue here. For many players the game is down right unplayable, which excludes most of them from raids / pvp and other farming options as it hits their damage output. Crashes every few minutes when loading  / teleporting etc.. why do you think so many still wait and ask for the UE4 upgrade?

 

3 hours ago, Rmccn08 said:

As a new player finishing the storyline, it is nearly impossible for them to gear up because of the current environment. And when a new player, looks at slow faction chat, an empty cross-server lobby, high gear requirements for pugs and other forms of content, do you think they are going to stick around to figure what to do? No, they log off, uninstall the game, and go play something else. We do not keep the game alive. At the end of the day, you and I will stop playing this game at a certain point because its either become boring or were just sick of the mess. But the ultimate goal is that newer players continue to sign up, download, and play the game themselves. That's how you keep the game alive. And I believe our progression system is the core reason for that. I understand if you do not believe that and we can agree to disagree. Our game is full of old veterans sick and tired of the wrong decisions being made for the game, and a small group of new players that's starting to become extinct.

There problem here is that everyone expects a carry. Those new players do not have it as hard as it is made out to be, especially since already multiple times they got near-end game gear handed out for basically free. They are all free to make their own groups and do the content in order, they should not expect to be able to jump into end game simply jsut by finishing the story. BnS is a grind game after-all which does not appeal to everybody. Our progression system that we currently have is actually very new player friendly as nearly all materials needed can be farmed with minimal effort and in good amounts. For the other ones they can decide for themselves whether they want to invest time into farming all of them to be self sufficient, or just farm the PVE raw materials to sell them and buy what they need from the marketplace.

[Rmccn08]

1 hour ago, Grimoir said:

Removing teh crystal forms would make everything far more worse. Before the Crystal versions were introduced we had the raw materials only and it was a living nightmare to farm enough for all upgrades. Releasing the crystal versions made everything much more easier and far more obtainable for both newer players and veterans. So the situation you are suggesting, well we have been there and done that and it was horrible.

 

You are still only focused on one part of it. If moonstones / soulstones would be obtainable through PVE, PVP players would not be able to upgrade anything because they would simply not have any gold income. The sole reason why players spend so much money in the marketplace is because they do not want to farm the materials period. They are incredibly easy to get, especially soulstones since those have no gear requirement in arena.

Gold is not hard to hold onto, in fact it is incredibly easy to make gold however most players base their gold income purely on weeklies and dailies and thats where they stop, they do not invest the extra time into farming the items which they can turn into a very decent profit. This isnt a progression issue, its a player issue.

 

As suprising as it is that is the core issue here. For many players the game is down right unplayable, which excludes most of them from raids / pvp and other farming options as it hits their damage output. Crashes every few minutes when loading  / teleporting etc.. why do you think so many still wait and ask for the UE4 upgrade?

 

There problem here is that everyone expects a carry. Those new players do not have it as hard as it is made out to be, especially since already multiple times they got near-end game gear handed out for basically free. They are all free to make their own groups and do the content in order, they should not expect to be able to jump into end game simply jsut by finishing the story. BnS is a grind game after-all which does not appeal to everybody. Our progression system that we currently have is actually very new player friendly as nearly all materials needed can be farmed with minimal effort and in good amounts. For the other ones they can decide for themselves whether they want to invest time into farming all of them to be self sufficient, or just farm the PVE raw materials to sell them and buy what they need from the marketplace.

I will respect your opinion on the matter. I feel we may be coming from two different sides of the game, which is understandable. But I have explained myself very clearly, and you have as well. But I'm pretty sure we can agree on one thing, there are no new players in the game. And if there are no new players, the game will continue to fall. So whether its full optimization or progression reworks, something has to give.

[KzE]

9 minutes ago, Rmccn08 said:

So whether its full optimization or progression reworks, something has to give.

Both is awful in this game.

[Yng]

I do agreed with some of the comments here and there and would like to provide my view - coming from a new player and a returning player.
 

1. I started playing BNS during beta and left when Naryu Foundry was released. The 40 dailies were very time consuming but both the soulstones and moonstones were easy to farm. The upgrade progression for weapon, and accessories were easy to understand. It is one straight path and if you keep playing the game, and do not stop farming, you will be able to see the light.

 

2. Picture this, when i came back, just two months ago (May 2020); my Baleful weapon and accessories were non existent. I can't even upgrade them. So after completing the story quest, the next puzzling question as a new player was, PvP vs PvE vs Raid gears. How do you expect someone who's new or a returning player to understand all these?

 

3. After making tons of mistakes on the upgrade path, i finally figured out that Raid does the most damage in PVE.

 

4. Now just spend one minute to imagine the experience a new player have to go through from upgrading his awesome new Riftwalk 3, Hongmon soul 1, Hongmoon Heart 1 and Pet Aura 1. I literally have to farm more than 200 blackstones to upgrade them to the next tier where humans with alts are farming or afk-ing.

I am not complaining this is not new player friendly, and yes they do hand out better gears every now and then (my weapon is currently GC8 when they release the Act XI: Balance of Power) but the farming experience is what makes people quit the game. If every new dungeon released was TB++ and above only, there will only be 1,000+ players doing the new content while the rest will expect a carry.

Lastly, i am perfectly fine that they reduce the gold, to make the economy better. However, what they can do better is to reduce the cost to upgrade, the gold requirement, the materials.

To sum it up, this is still my favorite MMORPG, and i would love to see new and returning players coming back and play it.

[ImoutoMaster]

Am 18.7.2020 um 22:30 schrieb Rmccn08:

Moonstones and Soul stones are not Farmable.

Meanwhile: 6v6 and 1v1 "am i a joke to you ? "

Am 18.7.2020 um 22:30 schrieb Rmccn08:

1. Remove Soul stone, Moonstone, Elysian, and Scared Crystals from the game [[Permanently]].

They were added for a reason back in 2016/2017 they didnt exist. If we wouldnt have them they would need to reduce the ammount we can get by alot otherwise the market will be flooded. Then we would have another problem due to the lack of mats we can farm overall. Atleast now Sacred crystals and Elysians are no problem.

Am 18.7.2020 um 22:30 schrieb Rmccn08:

2. Take Moonstones, Soul stones, Elysian Orbs, and Sacred Orbs, and add these 4 items into All Material Chests.(Meaning Treasure pouches, hidden promises chests, Lucent promises chests, etc.)

Again it would hurt the market way more than helping the individual player.

Am 18.7.2020 um 22:30 schrieb Rmccn08:

3. Make Soul stones and Sacred Orbs a guaranteed drop from all material chests and give Moonstones and Sacred Orbs a reasonable chance of dropping from all material chests.

I already wrote i am against removing crystals so i would agree this idea is good if thoose drop crystals.

Am 18.7.2020 um 22:30 schrieb Rmccn08:

What you are doing is giving the player base the option to farm these items in small quantities, with no restrictions whatsoever.

1v1 and 6v6 "am i a joke to you?"

Am 18.7.2020 um 22:30 schrieb Rmccn08:

this will give the newer players the resources to craft, transmute, and upgrade their gear.

What about simply changing the items you need to upgrade low tier stuff to mats you dont need in higher content anymore ? This was suggested a long time ago already. Black Stones for example are needed for nothing why not increase the need of them for low tier stuff and decrease the mats which are used by even the max stages of equipment.

 

In my oppinion you havent thought this completly through. While i appreciate your time and thought you put into it i dont agree to it. PVP is a part of the game and its the part of the game most of the Soul stones, Moonstones come from. So why are the prices of theese two so high ? Its not cause PVP Players are greedy its cause there are just very few pvp players left due to NCsoft constant patches which make pvp worse. Some classes cant even reach the 300 players mark at the end of the season thats including alts already.

 

So what would happen if NC would actully try and make PVP great again ?

 

1. Players increase in pvp

2. zen beans, blood points increase

3. Players buy Moonstones, Soul stones with their pvp currency

4. PVP Players can supply way more Moonstones, Soul stones than before F5 gets competition

5. Prices decrease of Soul stones and Moonstones

6. Everything else like Transformation stones etc. gets cheaper.

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, Yng said:

2. Picture this, when i came back, just two months ago (May 2020); my Baleful weapon and accessories were non existent. I can't even upgrade them. So after completing the story quest, the next puzzling question as a new player was, PvP vs PvE vs Raid gears. How do you expect someone who's new or a returning player to understand all these?

Yes sadly this game does not teach you or explain things. You have to do a lot of searching and self learning.

 

1 hour ago, Yng said:

3. After making tons of mistakes on the upgrade path, i finally figured out that Raid does the most damage in PVE.

Talking about weapon - it is class dependant. some classes excel in dps with the PVE path than the raid path.

 

1 hour ago, Yng said:

4. Now just spend one minute to imagine the experience a new player have to go through from upgrading his awesome new Riftwalk 3, Hongmon soul 1, Hongmoon Heart 1 and Pet Aura 1. I literally have to farm more than 200 blackstones to upgrade them to the next tier where humans with alts are farming or afk-ing.

Those 200 bpackstones are easily farmable as there are dungeons dropping multiple of them which basically can be done with pure story gear.

[Rmccn08]

12 hours ago, Yng said:

I do agreed with some of the comments here and there and would like to provide my view - coming from a new player and a returning player.
 

1. I started playing BNS during beta and left when Naryu Foundry was released. The 40 dailies were very time consuming but both the soulstones and moonstones were easy to farm. The upgrade progression for weapon, and accessories were easy to understand. It is one straight path and if you keep playing the game, and do not stop farming, you will be able to see the light.

 

2. Picture this, when i came back, just two months ago (May 2020); my Baleful weapon and accessories were non existent. I can't even upgrade them. So after completing the story quest, the next puzzling question as a new player was, PvP vs PvE vs Raid gears. How do you expect someone who's new or a returning player to understand all these?

 

3. After making tons of mistakes on the upgrade path, i finally figured out that Raid does the most damage in PVE.

 

4. Now just spend one minute to imagine the experience a new player have to go through from upgrading his awesome new Riftwalk 3, Hongmon soul 1, Hongmoon Heart 1 and Pet Aura 1. I literally have to farm more than 200 blackstones to upgrade them to the next tier where humans with alts are farming or afk-ing.

I am not complaining this is not new player friendly, and yes they do hand out better gears every now and then (my weapon is currently GC8 when they release the Act XI: Balance of Power) but the farming experience is what makes people quit the game. If every new dungeon released was TB++ and above only, there will only be 1,000+ players doing the new content while the rest will expect a carry.

Lastly, i am perfectly fine that they reduce the gold, to make the economy better. However, what they can do better is to reduce the cost to upgrade, the gold requirement, the materials.

To sum it up, this is still my favorite MMORPG, and i would love to see new and returning players coming back and play it.

I feel your pain friend, that sounds really frustrating. I hope that some of the support team members can see what we are discussing here and understand that new players are suffering a lot.

 

My main character's name in-game is AdventFiya. If you have any questions, just add me and ask me and I will try to help you with any questions you may have.

 

Definitely check out the 3 Blade and Soul Guide Gurus on Youtube, Kerropi, Evil Do Us Harm, and Jarke. They have lots of videos that will help guide you down the right path.

[Rmccn08]

12 hours ago, KzE said:

Both is awful in this game.

For sure. What do you think about the progression changes I mentioned? Do you think its a good idea or a bad idea?

[Rmccn08]

10 hours ago, ImoutoMaster said:

What about simply changing the items you need to upgrade low tier stuff to mats you dont need in higher content anymore ? This was suggested a long time ago already. Black Stones for example are needed for nothing why not increase the need of them for low tier stuff and decrease the mats which are used by even the max stages of equipment.

That would be perfect. It's been mentioned so many times in the path, I just assumed the developers thought it would be too easy. In a way, they have kind of done this with Transformation stones and Premium Transformation stones, which I think was a great idea that should have been added ages ago.

 

11 hours ago, ImoutoMaster said:

In my oppinion you havent thought this completly through. While i appreciate your time and thought you put into it i dont agree to it. PVP is a part of the game and its the part of the game most of the Soul stones, Moonstones come from. So why are the prices of theese two so high ? Its not cause PVP Players are greedy its cause there are just very few pvp players left due to NCsoft constant patches which make pvp worse. Some classes cant even reach the 300 players mark at the end of the season thats including alts already.

 

So what would happen if NC would actully try and make PVP great again ?

 

1. Players increase in pvp

2. zen beans, blood points increase

3. Players buy Moonstones, Soul stones with their pvp currency

4. PVP Players can supply way more Moonstones, Soul stones than before F5 gets competition

5. Prices decrease of Soul stones and Moonstones

6. Everything else like Transformation stones etc. gets cheaper.

Once again I have to apologize for my PVP content ignorance. But I agree 100% with what you are saying. Rather than removing items and reworking the progression system, simplify the already established system and make the content more rewarding and easier for newer players to participate in. Great idea.