Why such high ap/gear req?

[CheesecakeAssassin]

I am not one of those 55 HM8's nagging how everyone wants so much ap in daily dungeons. I'm a HM11 BD with 1082ap so I have nothing to nag about in them. The thing just is, why such high requirements for such easy dungeons as Hollows Heart, Irontech Forge and Naryu Sanctum? No one needs VT gear for that. They just need about 1,05k-1,08k (going inside my own ap to not be an asshat) and knowledge of the mechs through video or I'll tell them what to do. It doesn't take an hour to take people with no VT gear or 1,3 ap. I understand DD, RT, STT and those, but Hollows heart? Starstone mines? No VT gear needed, just patience and mech knowledge. 

And no, I'm not taking 900 ap people in my dungeons even when I say that the ap reqs are a bit too over the top.

[Garlend]

sometimes ppl leave in the middle of the dungeon. especially if a lot of party members die when fighting the first boss. it is sad. so they want ppl who have enough ap to beat the boss even if a party member leaves.

[CheesecakeAssassin]

Quote

25 minutes ago, Garlend said:

sometimes ppl leave in the middle of the dungeon. especially if a lot of party members die when fighting the first boss. it is sad. so they want ppl who have enough ap to beat the boss even if a party member leaves.

 

That's true tho. But at the same time the thing is you need enough hp and mech knowledge and that's crucial for staying alive, obviously. I've been in many LFP parties where people leave because some die or that it's too slow for them I guess, but in the end we others cleaned the dungeon with no problems. Too bad for them, they would've saved more time just staying with us. Some people seem to have so little patience and so much want to braindeadly dps everything, even though it's way more fun to do dailies when you have to use your brain, not dps away with your Grand celestial 6. 

[Dellecross]

I now learned the one requirement I will be putting to my party (if I ever beat CoS myself): "Have Divine Bracelet!"

That one is an indication of knowing the class and having some skill.

[Grimoir]

3 minutes ago, Dellecross said:

I now learned the one requirement I will be putting to my party (if I ever beat CoS myself): "Have Divine Bracelet!"

That one is an indication of knowing the class and having some skill.

that is more of an indication saying "i got lucky with rng on the Hong mechs and beat it".

[Dellecross]

1 minute ago, Grimoir said:

that is more of an indication saying "i got lucky with rng on the Hong mechs and beat it".

Even if so - one must get incredibly lucky and possibly many times (because afaik it's not enough to beat Hong once for it) in a solo dungeon rather than being carried / buying gear and then being useless. So it does not give a 100% guarantee that the person will have some skill and pay attention to mechanics, but the chance is high.

[Grimoir]

14 minutes ago, Dellecross said:

Even if so - one must get incredibly lucky and possibly many times (because afaik it's not enough to beat Hong once for it) in a solo dungeon rather than being carried / buying gear and then being useless. So it does not give a 100% guarantee that the person will have some skill and pay attention to mechanics, but the chance is high.

It could also be someone who troved for the bracelet you know...there were tranquility emblems in trove xD they are also in the daily specials sometimes

[Dellecross]

4 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

It could also be someone who troved for the bracelet you know...there were tranquility emblems in trove xD they are also in the daily specials sometimes

.. as well as all that "vt gear" or "1100ap". But it's much higher chance with a bracelet.

[Crickateer]

Its because vt geared+ groups are fast. The devs are to blame for this toxicity because they force players to literally grind dailies EVERYDAY for an hour to three just to make ends meet in this game for months. It gets old rather fast when you have other things to do in your day whether its a job or just playing another game. So these players wanting to save time for other things in their day want to get it done fast (the gear allows this) and done right (typically fully vt geared players can skip mechs, e.g. my group skips always the jump phase in ssm or 2nd phase of hh). 

[RavTH]

I stopped doing ns if el they took to long and they don't give anymore the right amount of gold they used to the only good dungeons that are worth time is ssm hh dd rt sst they are faster than ns if el and more rewarding for time spent.

[Tufa]

I don't always adhere to high AP reqs, but when I do the answer is really simple---speed.  The game has become some mindnumbingly easy, and the gold reduced, such that the only way to make decent money is to tear through as many dungs as I can given then time I have.  And lets face it, the lowbies tend to be the ones that take forever to load or become afk nuisances as well.

[MantisxD]

Also i personaly seen that while doing with some low gear ppl dungs they dont talk if they know mechs or not. And when they die and mess up mechs i have seen a lot of time when they call other ppl names and rage quit or just straight rage quit. I dont mind helping new ppl if i personaly have time and they are wiling to get help not just get carried.

[Vyd]

when the dungeons arent rewarding at all, and most players are bored of them already, it is expected that ppl want a fast hassle free run.

 

[kizuzuki]

I call out for a3+ for big 4 dungeons but usually I won't kick ppl with raven gears join in my lobby. I don't mind  because I run with clan and we have 4 end game gear players in party. But what always happens is player with low gear have absolute no idea of mech, causing countless boss jumps in RT, pulling curse/ spawn on TS etc. It's not like high end players don't want carry newbies, is ppl get tired with new players don't read mech and DOESN'T LISTEN, eg. wl don't do sb, random sheath...  (╬｀⌒´)

 

If you don't have gear to carry the whole party, or not sure if members know what to do, the only way is asking for high AP requirements. 

[Fufia]

This community is a bunch of hypocrites. So many excuses in this topic.

We all run F8 we all do raids and we all know that most of the players think they are superior to others just because they have better gear in a video game. (if someone will say it's a lie I can start recording conversations in the game and post here)

New players truth. when they do not have the ridiculous AP ppl asks they can not get PT when they have the ridiculous AP nobody does mechanics. 

Me vt gear 1202ap run ST for the first time the other day made 10 runs straight. Guess how many times ppl do mech? they not even bother to kd the 1st boss and that PT just have 2 ppl with vt gear.

Just look at this event you can see well the attitude of this community.

 

Continue with this attitude that people will learn clearly. And ofc blame new ppl and NCS

[Crickateer]

27 minutes ago, Fufia said:

Me vt gear 1202ap run ST for the first time the other day made 10 runs straight. Guess how many times ppl do mech? they not even bother to kd the 1st boss and that PT just have 2 ppl with vt gear.

 

Enough said

[Grimoir]

10 hours ago, Vyd said:

when the dungeons arent rewarding at all, and most players are bored of them already, it is expected that ppl want a fast hassle free run.

 

And when they are rewarding and difficult / mech heavy, people dont want to run them or complain they are too hard .... xD

[Vyd]

5 hours ago, Grimoir said:

And when they are rewarding and difficult / mech heavy, people dont want to run them or complain they are too hard .... xD

was there ever a dungeon that was rewarding to do in bns? other than doing it once a day for the daily gold?

 

thats why most ppl complain, because it gives absolutely nothing towards your progress, while being too hard or time consuming for common plebs, like RT or TSM even if we wouldnt have this 2 dungeon, most ppl wouldnt even notice tbh.like, the raids might be mech and gear heavy,but atleast it gives you a better equipment, not 1 ms crystal and  ss crystal,or a chance at some sacred crystal, imo, its the fault of the progression system, and not the ppl out there trying to play the game with less frustration.

(even if all of the dngs would be removed and we only had basin, the only thing u would miss out on is a few gold)

 

you see, its a never ending cycle in this game, ppl dont want mechs in dngs coz boring and no reward,just be done with it for the little gold they can salvage

dngs get nerfed, still no reward ,but now ppl can do it faster and hasslefree - they gonna ask for better gear to make it even faster

now ppl dont want to move over to raids since they have stressing mechs, and just too timeconsuming for some mediocre gear that needs another month of work,unless you grind the crap out of the game and quit while doing so cause u got bored in the process.

without events, this game wouldnt be alive at all.

 

tbh,before launch when they said  they are "westernizing" the game, they should ve spend more time on implementing a better progression system,instead, they just censored most of the costumes,and gave us a halfassed client,with servers that belong in the bin, for no reason (that balrok raiment tho)

but if you take another look at this system, it is the perfect short term cashgrab they could ever implement for a game thats not really going to work out in the west in its original form.(it probably still generates more income than the upkeeping costs, thats why it didnt shutter yet)

 

[Taimatsu]

The problem here is  a lot of ppl are still using AP as a an indicator when that is so wrong. A 900+ap could out deeps a 1k+ player if his gear is actually in order. The community really cracks me up a lot every time I see ap mentioned in f8 or anywhere.

[Vyd]

9 minutes ago, Taimatsu said:

The problem here is  a lot of ppl are still using AP as a an indicator when that is so wrong. A 900+ap could out deeps a 1k+ player if his gear is actually in order. The community really cracks me up a lot every time I see ap mentioned in f8 or anywhere.

generally the more ap you have, chances are you have atleast a somewhat decent gear to work with, so its understandable,given how everything gives ap if you keep ugrading it, so around 1.2k ap you probably have roughly 150k dps even if you only upgraded your weapon to like aransu 6, and your bracelet is still tier 1 stage 3

i know ap is not equal to dps, a properly geared raven 3 can probably do more than some1 with rift 9, even if rift has more ap,but thats not the point here.

 

unless you put a moyun parse in your F2,there is no better way to know your capabilities.(altho even that doesnt guarantee that you wont be kicked, cause every1 checks the ap first with a tunnelvision

[Lyn Thunderfox]

@Vyd We mean, back in the day, some people were using Destiny Ring to get more AP and dare to kick people with lower AP even tho they had BT accs which are far superior despite their lower AP stats. (I take crit/focus bonus + elemental damage over ~20 sh*tty AP)

[Granger]

A lot of gear is like that actually. Upgrading to legendary almost always loses you ap until you have that legendary upgraded a good bit. And even beyond: Oath neck to VT neck is one of the more severe examples for that, losing you a whopping 44 ap.

 

 

Ap is completly useless as measurement and "gearscore". Until i started upgrading my gems i always coasted around the same ap range around/under 1,1k ap, but my dps more than quintupled meanwhile.

[Vyd]

2 minutes ago, Lyn Thunderfox said:

@Vyd We mean, back in the day, some people were using Destiny Ring to get more AP and dare to kick people with lower AP even tho they had BT accs which are far superior despite their lower AP stats. (I take crit/focus bonus + elemental damage over ~20 sh*tty AP)

that is still a thing, and many ppl overlook it nowadays

[Grimoir]

1 hour ago, Vyd said:

was there ever a dungeon that was rewarding to do in bns? other than doing it once a day for the daily gold?

 

thats why most ppl complain, because it gives absolutely nothing towards your progress, while being too hard or time consuming for common plebs, like RT or TSM even if we wouldnt have this 2 dungeon, most ppl wouldnt even notice tbh.like, the raids might be mech and gear heavy,but atleast it gives you a better equipment, not 1 ms crystal and  ss crystal,or a chance at some sacred crystal, imo, its the fault of the progression system, and not the ppl out there trying to play the game with less frustration.

(even if all of the dngs would be removed and we only had basin, the only thing u would miss out on is a few gold)

 

you see, its a never ending cycle in this game, ppl dont want mechs in dngs coz boring and no reward,just be done with it for the little gold they can salvage

dngs get nerfed, still no reward ,but now ppl can do it faster and hasslefree - they gonna ask for better gear to make it even faster

now ppl dont want to move over to raids since they have stressing mechs, and just too timeconsuming for some mediocre gear that needs another month of work,unless you grind the crap out of the game and quit while doing so cause u got bored in the process.

without events, this game wouldnt be alive at all.

 

tbh,before launch when they said  they are "westernizing" the game, they should ve spend more time on implementing a better progression system,instead, they just censored most of the costumes,and gave us a halfassed client,with servers that belong in the bin, for no reason (that balrok raiment tho)

but if you take another look at this system, it is the perfect short term cashgrab they could ever implement for a game thats not really going to work out in the west in its original form.(it probably still generates more income than the upkeeping costs, thats why it didnt shutter yet)

 

To give an example, personally i found that reworked POH 6 man dungeon we had during the event was actually worth the clear with the guaranteed merchant spawn.

[Vyd]

6 hours ago, Grimoir said:

To give an example, personally i found that reworked POH 6 man dungeon we had during the event was actually worth the clear with the guaranteed merchant spawn.

but you see, it had something that you could look forward to,now the only thing you can look forward to is 10 gold,once a day

so its understandable that ppl want to be done with it as fast as possible, and maybe move to a more enjoyable aspect of the game, or just do it again and again on 11 alts.(ew)

 

like, if the character info had something like

*average dps :1234* on your character profile below your ap or something,

then ppl could ditch the ap requirements, and they could start using that.i can only imagine it with something like this.

ofc it would be based and calculated on gear and whatnot,not some parse you did.but i guess it would be too much work to implement a system like that, so we gotta stick with ap as the #1 recruiting tool

(gearscore is the same as ap,cause it takes only 1 item to boost your gs up to a certain point,while all the rest is garbo)