raids are going to be 12 man

[Dotimus]

check reddit, KR maestro patch will change raids to 12 man

https://www.reddit.com/r/bladeandsoul/comments/6fzfhq/new_raid_system_and_soul_path/

[LiriC]

No.. no no non non onono...   Don't do it to 12.. NO... leave it at 24... oh god. no.

 

This will be a kick in the nutz for a lot of people.

[Dotimus]

having raided 40, then 20 and 10 man in wow, this is godsend for clans

 

the only problem i see (and as pointed out in reddit) with 1 tank, 2 WL (sb) , 2 gunners/maestro/*whatever they will call it in NA/EU* (reset sb)

(5 spots with only 3 classes)

+ 2 BB (if the tank is not a kfm) at best 7 spots 5 classes

 

and ya, there is still 5 spots for the rest of the 5 classes, but also means:

any clan will ALLWAYS NEED 2 TIMES MORE WL AND GUNNERS than any other class

DES,BD,FM will be on the totally optional

SF, SUM optional, except if the raid requires healing (with SF above SUM on mechs requiring extra health pool)

 

[Zedonia]

18 minutes ago, Dotimus said:

the only problem i see (and as pointed out in reddit) with 1 tank, 2 WL (sb) , 2 gunners/maestro/*whatever they will call it in NA/EU* (reset sb)

(5 spots with only 3 classes)

+ 2 BB (if the tank is not a kfm) at best 7 spots 5 classes

 

and ya, there is still 5 spots for the rest of the 5 classes, but also means:

any clan will ALLWAYS NEED 2 TIMES MORE WL AND GUNNERS than any other class

DES,BD,FM will be on the totally optional

SF, SUM optional, except if the raid requires healing (with SF above SUM on mechs requiring extra health pool)

This all depends on what players want. You dont need sb now for any content and you wont need it for anything ever. Especially after the sb nerf it isn't that much dps for some classes. 20% more critdmg is not much and not all awakened skills are really that much better than your normal skills. I doubt WL will be that important after the nerf.

[Dotimus]

47 minutes ago, Zedonia said:

This all depends on what players want. You dont need sb now for any content and you wont need it for anything ever. Especially after the sb nerf it isn't that much dps for some classes. 20% more critdmg is not much and not all awakened skills are really that much better than your normal skills. I doubt WL will be that important after the nerf.

ya... nedd to wait, but those 20% get to 35% with the legendary amulet + additional damage

 

amulet text:

All party members in range receive Shadow Buff during Soulburn
Every attack deals 500% Additional Damage during Shadow Buff
Shadow Buff Crit Damage is increased by 35%

[LiriC]

yeah .. but you can just see it now that pubs will request a lot of AP to nuke it down.

With a 24 man.. you can add some low ap guys here and there  and still be fine with the AP and DMG on bosses.... I'm more scared of what people will ask then the instance itself.

 

this will lead in clans breaking up, I can even see this in the future because people won't make a party as balanced as it should so other lower levels have a chance.

 

Oh.. the flaming.. oh the hate and anger that is to come..

And even if people have high ap . that means nothing if you can't pull a single mech... in the 24 man.. you had to have good discipline if you wanted to finish... now .. it all will go to pot.

 

I hope this updates takes 4 months to reach us... by that time either I would have quit the game or have a 950k ap to not get annoyed. not having enough ap.

[MassiveEgo]

Here's what I think. This game has graphics worse than the first Crysis and runs much worse on similar machine. Crysis is not the pinnacle of optimization mind you. Somehow this game runs worse. MUCH worse. An i7 4790k can barely output solid 45 fps in Mushin's Tower base floor on a GTX1060. Barely. And nobody there is doing anything so there isn't any heavy lifting to burden the CPU nor the GPU. 45 fps for a game whose graphics haven't changed since launch in 2012. Now if they can explain to us why their 2012 game has trouble running on hardware that's top notch even by today's standards. I'm not even asking for 1440p, just 1080p, no AA or FXAA or any of the morphological mumbo jumbo. When this game starts using all available cores instead of just half of one, we can talk about mandatory 12 man raids.

[LiriC]

8 minutes ago, MassiveEgo said:

Here's what I think. This game has graphics worse than the first Crysis and runs much worse on similar machine. Crysis is not the pinnacle of optimization mind you. Somehow this game runs worse. MUCH worse. An i7 4790k can barely output solid 45 fps in Mushin's Tower base floor on a GTX1060. Barely. And nobody there is doing anything so there isn't any heavy lifting to burden the CPU nor the GPU. 45 fps for a game whose graphics haven't changed since launch in 2012. Now if they can explain to us why their 2012 game has trouble running on hardware that's top notch even by today's standards. I'm not even asking for 1440p, just 1080p, no AA or FXAA or any of the morphological mumbo jumbo. When this game starts using all available cores instead of just half of one, we can talk about mandatory 12 man raids.

well..

that's the point isn't it ?

They can't make it run like it should because of the engine they use and what they don't plan to change.

I'm guessing a lot of people can't run the 24 man and started to cry about it, witch no one can complain, if you would not be able to run it since it's end game phase, you would bich as well.

I remember back in the day I could BARELY do poharan, with all on VERY VERY LOW and LOW RES to get the hits, I would lag out of control... upgraded my gear now tho... still for what I have.. to lag .. it's .. "oh god make it stop".

 

So.. to remove the lag... they plan to cut it in half and have less animations so people can run it... now this will affect the market as well so.. if I were people owning items from the 24man .. I would double the prices because when the 12 comes out, prices will hit the floor hard... but anyway.

 

That's the real solution for the problem .. less people, less lag, more fps, you get to finish and you no longer cry about it.

[NightFer]

You guys should read the real reasons behind this change, and its not because of the graphics or power because currently on EU there are half raids that do 1-4 without any troubles (by that I mean 12 people doing all the work) and they carry randoms for shit tons of gold.

 

The real reason is, its hard to actually gather 24 people for raids in KR except for static raids of clans. And this change is welcomed in KR and its because of KR.

 

In my opinion this is only going to make the raids easy and not as challenging as they are now because they are going to lower the difficulty lvl so that 12 people can finish it. But we will see.

[Shintuan]

The biggest problem with 24 man raids is coordinating 24 peoples schedules. Lowering it to 12 makes this twice as easy.

49 minutes ago, LiriC said:

this will lead in clans breaking up, I can even see this in the future because people won't make a party as balanced as it should so other lower levels have a chance.

This is rather laughable. If a clan breaks up over this they weren't much of a clan to begin with. You don't even need the best of the best gear to do raid progression to begin with.  And people get stronger as they progress through the raid and get their raid gear. The hardest part for the lower levels would be learning the mechs properly. These changes are an improvement overall.

[KzE]

Good. Now remove the HM levels.

[FrozenB]

3 hours ago, LiriC said:

yeah .. but you can just see it now that pubs will request a lot of AP to nuke it down.

With a 24 man.. you can add some low ap guys here and there  and still be fine with the AP and DMG on bosses.... I'm more scared of what people will ask then the instance itself.

 

this will lead in clans breaking up, I can even see this in the future because people won't make a party as balanced as it should so other lower levels have a chance.

 

Oh.. the flaming.. oh the hate and anger that is to come..

And even if people have high ap . that means nothing if you can't pull a single mech... in the 24 man.. you had to have good discipline if you wanted to finish... now .. it all will go to pot.

 

I hope this updates takes 4 months to reach us... by that time either I would have quit the game or have a 950k ap to not get annoyed. not having enough ap.

This will lead in guilds breaking up only because people are gathering into a big guild just to enter BT raid. This won't affect the players who are loyal to their guild. Since BT raid was out, how many small guilds was disbanded and broken up? 

 

Now, 12m raid can give some hope for small clans to organize their own raid, so that people don't have to deal with the people they don't like to play with in the big clan.

 

Some people said Des, BD, and FM are optional in these raids. It is partly correct. However, remember that when they make 12m raid, they will nerf the boss' hp down to a reasonable level too. As long as these players have decent DPS, I don't think they will have a problem to join a 12m raid. Plus, WL and Gunner classes are only there to make your life easier by giving and resetting SB. People obviously can do the raid without them.

[hwalien]

12 man should be doable with little nerf. not like its going to F8.

[Dotimus]

2 hours ago, FrozenB said:

As long as these players have decent DPS

my point is that for any good raid comp, you will need always 2X WL and 2X gunner than any other class, nothing more

 

unless they make SB, BB, gunner reset and friends raid bufs and not party bufs....

[AmatsuDF]

No surprise coming from NCSoft this change. It's proof the game is dying if they have to cut the raid members in half.

[FrozenB]

24 minutes ago, AmatsuDF said:

No surprise coming from NCSoft this change. It's proof the game is dying if they have to cut the raid members in half.

It is not. It just makes the life easier for the solo players or players who are in small clan.

 

Just look at all the big clan who can do the raid by themselves. How many of these players joined these guilds after the BT patch was out? At the same time, how many small guilds were destroyed or disbanded after BT patch was out?

 

I don't know why people are so scared of this change. Is it because they won't be able to sell BT runs anymore? LOL...anyways, when 12m raid comes, I bet VT raid would be here too. These people can just sell VT raid instead.

[MassiveEgo]

11 hours ago, LiriC said:

They can't make it run like it should because of the engine they use and what they don't plan to change.

Actually they can fix this without changing the engine. Fundamentally the engine isn't complete. The way you feed it data is more or less up to you. Yes, by default older revisions of UE3 are really bad when it comes to multi threading. But that can be fixed. Of course we have a more fundamental problem - the game launched in 2012 meaning the development started somewhere around 2007. It's unlikely that someone was bright enough to think ahead of time and write the client in a way that would allow it to function with more than the default two threads. And now we are stuck with this back end, probably too rigid to be changed without breaking vast number of other modules. But it's not impossible to do. Costly, but not impossible. And since players aren't leaving in large numbers, they don't feel pressed to do anything about it. Anti consumer? Of course. Logical from corporate standpoint? Absolutely. Heck Lineage 2 was in need of code revision since 2010 and they still haven't done anything about it. And Unreal Warfare engine that L2 runs on is as basic as they get (considering it's not even true dx9c engine, more like stuck between directx 8,1 and 9.0a, being dx7 at it's core with everything else "attached" artificially to it).

So in the end of the day NC won't move assets into this unless they get forced to do it, aka their game gets deserted due to this particular problem. Lucky for them, gamers are incredibly resilient creatures. We can make do with as low as 20 fps, maybe even 15 if the dungeon isn't fast paced. And they're banking on us remaining like that.

[joenator]

A game where you have to "ctrf+f" in order to do those raids should not even consider implement those 24man features.

finally they will change it to 12man and honestly...let make it 8 so we can play full graphic in this potatoe optimized game

[amokk]

Btw, you don't need 2 WLs in 1 party. 

Summon Thrall -> Wait for Thrall to almost time out -> SB -> Gunner uses Reset -> ~2-3s after SB ends you can summon Thrall and use SB again.

 

[Dotimus]

56 minutes ago, amokk said:

Btw, you don't need 2 WLs in 1 party. 

Summon Thrall -> Wait for Thrall to almost time out -> SB -> Gunner uses Reset -> ~2-3s after SB ends you can summon Thrall and use SB again.

 

i never counted 2 WL in a party

 

but in 2 parties of 6 man you will more than likely have 2 WL and 2 gunners

leaving at best case scenario 1 spot for each other class at most....

 

but.... that is... unless they move SB and all other current party bufs to raid bufs..... not forcing "you" to have 2 WL and 2 gunners (one WL and a gunner on each party)

 

 

[Dark Falz]

1 hour ago, amokk said:

Btw, you don't need 2 WLs in 1 party. 

Summon Thrall -> Wait for Thrall to almost time out -> SB -> Gunner uses Reset -> ~2-3s after SB ends you can summon Thrall and use SB again.

 

Actually you do need 2 warlocks in party to make use of the new gunner skill.  The gunner skill only resets the global cool down debuff everyone in party gets after certain skills are used that keeps them from getting those skill buffs again for the duration of the debuff.  It doesn't actually reset any skills so that 1 warlock would still have that 90 second (60 if they have BT 8 piece) personal skill cool down to wait to use it again.  Using the gunner skill makes it so the second Warlock doesn't have to wait for the 1 minute debuff the whole party gets when sb is used to fall off to use his sb.  Having only 1 warlock in party with a gunner does nothing.

[Dotimus]

BT 12 man on kr test

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/bladeandsoul/comments/6g3mgz/12man_black_tower_test_server_videos/

[Azurelis]

Well, no one policy in this world will fulfil the needs of all right, thus no policy in this game will also fulfil the needs of the player base.

 

Some may think that clans will break as players will focus on joining a high-level clan. 

 

People who leave clan based on above reason is likely there for certain benefits. Not entirely forming a friendship.

I'll say let it be then, some will go, others will come. Eventually, those who really form the friendship will grow strong together and have fun together.

I believe that's what a clan should be. Long standing friendship with memorable encounters, with many screenshots of memories and more.

So for lower levels finding it hard to squeeze into high-level raids, (which the term high-level raids already hints you should perhaps gear and level up further before engaging it), you can always focus on lower level raid suitable for your level and gear. Sometimes it'll be more effective getting higher level members to come down to lower tier dungeons to help you out which I am sure there are clans out there that help members just like mine.

 

So at the end of the day, how members shift clan, how clan develops, it's really up to individual and needs. everyone is different. 

If lowering player cap on a dungeon to improve the probability of smoother gameplay and result in fewer crashes, I'll welcome it anytime for the benefit of those who may not have high-end PCs. (In this aspect, I am thinking more of the overall community and those who can't afford high-end PCs, not myself)

 

 

[Shuchin]

Very happy to hear this. For so many reasons.

 

With my toaster, have to run on graphics = 1 for Longgui and celestial basin bosses already. Graphics = 3 for 6v6 even...

Never was able to find time to organize a BT stage 1 raid.

Love the changes to SB, this will boost KFM RF combo to infinity!

Weapon / pet skin inventory, much appreciated! This will free up like 10 slots for me.

 

=:3

[amokk]

1 hour ago, Azurelis said:

no idea how to remove this pos quote window...

2 hours ago, Dark Falz said:

Actually you do need 2 warlocks in party to make use of the new gunner skill.  The gunner skill only resets the global cool down debuff everyone in party gets after certain skills are used that keeps them from getting those skill buffs again for the duration of the debuff.  It doesn't actually reset any skills so that 1 warlock would still have that 90 second (60 if they have BT 8 piece) personal skill cool down to wait to use it again.  Using the gunner skill makes it so the second Warlock doesn't have to wait for the 1 minute debuff the whole party gets when sb is used to fall off to use his sb.  Having only 1 warlock in party with a gunner does nothing.

Gunner Reset resets GCD of BB and SB... AAAAAND BB and SB itself. So yea, you DO NOT need 2 WLs. It doesnt reset cooldowns of normal skills, but BB and SB, including their GCD. Thats why I said to wait for Thrall to almost time out and then use SB.

 

Edit: And before some1 says it doesnt ->