Summoner nerfed.. again..

[Parenthesis]

@Etherealz believe me, you only went through only half the bullshit that I seen.

I pug in Ebon with random ppl and they turn out to be in the same clan.

This time when the ring drop, I needed the money so I thought I could earn some money with this ring.

turned out they refuse to bid for it.

it went up to 190g and stop...

2nd time I refuse to run with ppl from the same clan.

guess what, they are friend. The ring were bid at 220g. 

I used almost all of my luck, all that work farming to help some random stranger getting them almost free.

Im done pugging for Ebondrake.

[Etherealz]

@Parenthesis

 

well that what i was saying that puging it will be just another s*** in this cause either they are friends or guild like your were and they bid 200g or they will just make you overbid for it cause ofc you i will overbid and farm gold instead of more pugs runs + not to say that even now there are ppl who have no ideea about mechanics 

[Shadovvv]

3 hours ago, Iorek said:

I for one agree with the summoners.

As a summoner, you should be able to tank (Destro, BM, BD, KFM)
You should be able to deal a huge amount of dps (FM)
You should have great heals (SF)
You should have stealth (Assassin)
You should have an auxillary DPS other than yourself (WL)
You should be able to pin opponents (Destro, BM, BD, KFM)

Any other classes I'm missing?

BD can't tank.

BM can't pin but FM and Sin can.

FM and Sin have an anti-projectile field. Oh, but Sum has those too.

KFM, FM, and WL can root. Huh, Sum has them too.

Dest and FM have meditating shields. Noooo, Sum has them too.

BM, BD, FM, and Sin have party iframes. Woooow, Sum has them too.

[Parenthesis]

@Etherealz

While on this topic Ima rant about bns too.

Do you know how frustrating it is when a 670Ap does not know how to do Awakened Necropolis? Not happened 1 time but multiple.

not only that 90% of all ppl I ran sundered nexus with have absolutely NO idea how that dungeon works. Even ppl with 700 AP.

A 730AP summoner that still using the system as in the guide

he wanted not only role 2 and 3, he want to know the role 4, 5, and 6. Because that's the only way for him to understand the mechanic, let me tell you that he have over 260runs.

Every day there's a new disaster going on, not even a single day that I get a smooth run.

 

Guess what the real reason is.

NcSoft reducing all upgrading price for upgrading gears, so people jump AP faster than intended, and they completely ignore all the old content and have no idea or even bother to learn how it works. Is this what it means to help new players?

its putting great stress on we veterans.

 

Every day

really, every day there's a new retard emerge from the ocean.

Im starting to grow sick and tired of it. Seriously.

[werat]

I am tired of people calling summoner are supposed to be just a support class. Sure maybe for PvE that's great but that's the thing, it's only for PvE. What is a support class going to do if they're running stuff alone, support themselves the entire time? I love playing PvP but if summoners gets put down to support role, that takes PvPing out of the game for this class. Summoners have what they have because they are meant to be supports but they also have to be able to handle their own. I can't always get someone to join a party with me. I need to be able to handle my own by myself when there is no one to support. Everyone can say every class is op in some way or another but you know why? Because either 1 they have played against players who know how to play their class to the fullest or 2 they suck at their own class too much to realize what they have. I have gone up against every class and so many times from all of the class, I have seen some really awesome players who set their class up nice enough to handle others. Another thing that is forgotten is that you should have a build to against who you are facing. When I'm against Dest and BD, I have to rely on my cat and moves that I can do far away which is only the bees. To use the vines, I have to get close. I can't or I get caught and knocked out. I have Sunflower for Sins and so on and what not. Nerfing moves and leaving it at that isn't that cool. 

[Suldren]

23 hours ago, Leyren said:

Right, one of my clan does 48k instead of 52k DPS in Tomb now.. only 48k. Without blue buff or soulburn. Poor poor Summoners!

I realize you said tomb,

[Meginb]

There's no such thing as a support class in this game, only skills that keep the stupid from failing at a boss and making big numbers even bigger, that's the whole point of this game's class system being different from the "Holy Trinity" system used in most other games. Every end game fight is a dps race which means every class is supposed to be doing damage as high as possible while some have extra responsibilities to juggle like Stealthing, Soulburning or just Blocking.

 

I wouldn't mind losing some of our utility gimmicks if it'll shut up all the Summoner haters I see every day when I log in, and if you haven't actually played as a Summoner, you don't know what it's like. It's gotten to the point of just being blatant bullying whenever a Summoner comments in faction chat which is disgusting. Instead of nerfing the heck out of a class, how about buffing the ones that are struggling in certain areas... No, I already said that and it still makes too much sense.

[Suldren]

1 hour ago, Meginb said:

There's no such thing as a support class in this game, only skills that keep the stupid from failing at a boss and making big numbers even bigger, that's the whole point of this game's class system being different from the "Holy Trinity" system used in most other games. Every end game fight is a dps race which means every class is supposed to be doing damage as high as possible while some have extra responsibilities to juggle like Stealthing, Soulburning or just Blocking.

 

I wouldn't mind losing some of our utility gimmicks if it'll shut up all the Summoner haters I see every day when I log in, and if you haven't actually played as a Summoner, you don't know what it's like. It's gotten to the point of just being blatant bullying whenever a Summoner comments in faction chat which is disgusting. Instead of nerfing the heck out of a class, how about buffing the ones that are struggling in certain areas... No, I already said that and it still makes too much sense.

Yeah, the hate is real and people will leave the party just seeing a Summoner. When I am on mine I have gotten whispers "Scummoner" it's really insane when I think about it. Oh well, maybe now people will leave us alone. =/

[SoulsHunter]

1 hour ago, Meginb said:

There's no such thing as a support class in this game, only skills that keep the stupid from failing at a boss

Yes the bullying is real, leaving me out there to die when you have the utility to support but refuse to use them. Because the utility is useless according to you, because the utility helps others, not you so it is useless.

 

I don't see WL players complain that their soulburn is useless and refuse to spec it. I don't see KFM refuse to use fighting spirit. I don't see BD and DES refuse to use grab.

 

Do you ever think about why there are so many hate on summoner? Is it because we met so many summoner shitting on us? Asking us why we are so noob why are we dying? Yea sorry for not being perfect with my tanking. I never said I don't need your help, you are the one that say your utility is useless and refuse to help me.

 

I don't know about others but my personal experience with summoner are they are selfish. Please just go play a FM or something, thank you. Stop bringing shame to other pro summoners.

[Rokusan]

^THIS

 

.....although I wouldn't really jump to the assumption that they're all selfish. I think some of them just really don't know how to utilize their class to the fullest potential. In other words, they aren't aware. All they know is tab LMB RMB F then LMB RMB forever with the occasional Z. Either that or they're just feeling lazy LOL.

 

To be perfectly honest, as a relatively high geared FM with above average to good ping who finds myself tanking bosses 80% of the time I have only ever encountered 2 summoners who played their class PERFECTLY. 2 summoners out of the 7836734938 summoners I've encountered and partied with. Perfectly in the sense that they regularly made use of their support capabilities in CCing and taunting with their cat and at least tried to mitigate the aggro off the player who isn't a BM/KFM. 

 

But y'know, at the end of the day it really is the fault of the creators or at least the one/s who created the class and made it easy to play with the capabilities of doing nearly everything. The targetting system and the cat in PvP is honestly also a big source of frustration for beginner to intermediate PvP players. Did they really think only bad and/or casual PvE players were gonna pick up the class? LOL! Of course not.

 

 

[Zekken]

I personally don't have any hatred towards summoners in PVE. I'm all for higher dps in the party regardless of who it comes from because, in the end, the only thing that matters is being able to complete the dungeon.

 

As for PVP, I do greatly dislike summoners. It's probably because I'm bad and get laser beamed to death when attempting to kill the summoner while dodging the cat's cc only to see the summoner heal all the damage done. Nothing more humiliating than being destroyed by a midget with a sunflower :P.

[Meginb]

9 hours ago, SoulsHunter said:

Yes the bullying is real, leaving me out there to die when you have the utility to support but refuse to use them. Because the utility is useless according to you, because the utility helps others, not you so it is useless.

 

I don't see WL players complain that their soulburn is useless and refuse to spec it. I don't see KFM refuse to use fighting spirit. I don't see BD and DES refuse to use grab.

 

Do you ever think about why there are so many hate on summoner? Is it because we met so many summoner shitting on us? Asking us why we are so noob why are we dying? Yea sorry for not being perfect with my tanking. I never said I don't need your help, you are the one that say your utility is useless and refuse to help me.

 

I don't know about others but my personal experience with summoner are they are selfish. Please just go play a FM or something, thank you. Stop bringing shame to other pro summoners.

Sorry, but I'm one of those good little Summoners who tanks, heals, kites, uses Cat skills, uses iframes/defensive skills whenever needed to make sure the run goes as smoothly as possible. Why? Because in most other games I play support classes or healers and I love being a supporter for other players.

 

Warlocks don't complain because they only have to use Soulburn for the group (I've seen people chew Warlocks out for not using Soulburn constantly) and don't get nerfed every patch, neither do the other classes with support skills.

 

Oh, I've played with some terrible Summoners, I know why people hate them, I hate them as much as any other player playing any other class while being selfish, rude, thinking they know everything about the game and leave as soon as any hiccups occur in the run. If I see a Summoner or any other class having problems, I try to offer any advice I can, which most people don't even bother with. Whether my utilities are useless or not, I use whatever I have at my disposal to do the best I can whether people ask for help or not.

 

My personal experience is that the majority of players are selfish and the class isn't specific, just that the game in its current state basically encourages selfishness. I have a FM and a KFM which I enjoy immensely, but you should be playing with the assumption that you aren't getting any help from anyone else. I don't need or want thanks for being a pro Summoner, I just want people to understand that it's not fair to bully people to such an extent just for picking and playing a class that they have no control in designing.

[Iorek]

23 minutes ago, Meginb said:

Warlocks don't complain because they only have to use Soulburn for the group (I've seen people chew Warlocks out for not using Soulburn constantly) and don't get nerfed every patch, neither do the other classes with support skills.

 

Oh I would absolutely LOVE using Time Distortion over Soulburn.  I hate that I have to use SB to help out the party, but i do it because i'm a good little warlock.  Nothing like seeing 9 dragoncalls hitting a boss.

[Suldren]

6 hours ago, Rokusan said:

^THIS

 

.....although I wouldn't really jump to the assumption that they're all selfish. I think some of them just really don't know how to utilize their class to the fullest potential. In other words, they aren't aware. All they know is tab LMB RMB F then LMB RMB forever with the occasional Z. Either that or they're just feeling lazy LOL.

 

To be perfectly honest, as a relatively high geared FM with above average to good ping who finds myself tanking bosses 80% of the time I have only ever encountered 2 summoners who played their class PERFECTLY. 2 summoners out of the 7836734938 summoners I've encountered and partied with. Perfectly in the sense that they regularly made use of their support capabilities in CCing and taunting with their cat and at least tried to mitigate the aggro off the player who isn't a BM/KFM. 

 

But y'know, at the end of the day it really is the fault of the creators or at least the one/s who created the class and made it easy to play with the capabilities of doing nearly everything. The targetting system and the cat in PvP is honestly also a big source of frustration for beginner to intermediate PvP players. Did they really think only bad and/or casual PvE players were gonna pick up the class? LOL! Of course not.

 

 

The reason Summoners get so confused is because in every party they are blamed for everything!! I can be a mile away from something and they will all cry Summoner did it!

 

The thing is, in a party people will constantly tell you don't taunt, don't CC!  So they never know when to use CC or which one to use; so they don't use it at all for fear of being screamed at.

 

The confusion in this game is because mechanics are not always straight forward, even though you see the boss can be CC many Summoners use whatever they have, which the first one really learned is KD! and Grapple, because to them CC can mean KD. People need to speak up and say hey, don't kd this boss use stun and daze and or grapple this one.

 

In order to find out anything about these bosses you have to youtube videos and or guides where someone will finally say DO NOT KD this boss! 

 

Not sure what else you want a Summoner to use besides heal, seed shroud and petal storm. The cat gets dazed out so much it is really tough sometimes, people think the summoner is so easy to use, but the truth is we are under a lot of pressure.

 

 

[Rokusan]

1 hour ago, Suldren said:

The reason Summoners get so confused is because in every party they are blamed for everything!! I can be a mile away from something and they will all cry Summoner did it!

 

The thing is, in a party people will constantly tell you don't taunt, don't CC!  So they never know when to use CC or which one to use; so they don't use it at all for fear of being screamed at.

 

The confusion in this game is because mechanics are not always straight forward, even though you see the boss can be CC many Summoners use whatever they have, which the first one really learned is KD! and Grapple, because to them CC can mean KD. People need to speak up and say hey, don't kd this boss use stun and daze and or grapple this one.

 

In order to find out anything about these bosses you have to youtube videos and or guides where someone will finally say DO NOT KD this boss! 

 

Not sure what else you want a Summoner to use besides heal, seed shroud and petal storm. The cat gets dazed out so much it is really tough sometimes, people think the summoner is so easy to use, but the truth is we are under a lot of pressure.

 

 

I completely get where you're coming from but then again, that still doesn't completely serve as an excuse in regards to what I said. Other classes have to learn certain class-specific mechs too and not mess up like BM/KFM on tanking, FM when sheathing against Yeti's freeze attacks, sins when providing taxis, sins and summoners when stealthing against Zaikhan in Ebondrake Citadel, BDs/Destros gripping to buy time for the charges to go away in Desolate tomb, etc. Yes, you're supportive skills aren't an utmost requirement or necessity but this kind of thing just naturally comes along with your class since it's so safe and capable of doing almost everything as well as things exclusive only to your class such as cat taunt. I also gave a specific instance to serve as an example from the POV of an FM who gets aggro almost all the time but I'll describe it a little more.......

 

I'm nearing the 100 mark for 4man Sogun's Lament, have done the 2-2 split up fight for Ken and Gen many times. Given how popular the summoner class is, I've teamed up with a summoner to fight against Ken or Gen numerous times. It wasn't until I partied up with a certain summoner clanmate that I realized how amazing the supportive capabilities of a summoner can be especially when the party has no official tank. This summoner knew her rotations and the twin we were fighting would only attempt to attack me at most up to only 3-4 secs. The rest of the time the summoner had him CCed or taunted while still being able to keep up good DPS. It was honestly such a humongous difference compared to all the other summoners I've partied up with. Am I saying that most summoners are bad at PvE? Absolutely not! But I am saying that there are only very few summoners who maximize their class's capabilities and make good use of their class's supportive skills. 

 

Also I honestly doubt that you guys are under much pressure as compared to say BMs/KFMs who have to tank. A significant majority of summoners who I've partied with hardly ever get aggro, send cat out and only remember the cat exists to resu them when they die, and just rmb spam. I honestly fail to see the "lots of pressure" you're talking about. If the pressure you mean is "don't taunt, pin, root, CC" during certain boss phases, then you are not exempted since other classes have to refrain from doing the wrongs CCs as well.

 

 

[Suldren]

20 minutes ago, Rokusan said:

I completely get where you're coming from but then again, that still doesn't completely serve as an excuse in regards to what I said. Other classes have to learn certain class-specific mechs too and not mess up like BM/KFM on tanking, FM when sheathing against Yeti's freeze attacks, sins when providing taxis, sins and summoners when stealthing against Zaikhan in Ebondrake Citadel, BDs/Destros gripping to buy time for the charges to go away in Desolate tomb, etc. Yes, you're supportive skills aren't an utmost requirement or necessity but this kind of thing just naturally comes along with your class since it's so safe and capable of doing almost everything as well as things exclusive only to your class such as cat taunt. I also gave a specific instance to serve as an example from the POV of an FM who gets aggro almost all the time but I'll describe it a little more.......

 

I'm nearing the 100 mark for 4man Sogun's Lament, have done the 2-2 split up fight for Ken and Gen many times. Given how popular the summoner class is, I've teamed up with a summoner to fight against Ken or Gen numerous times. It wasn't until I partied up with a certain summoner clanmate that I realized how amazing the supportive capabilities of a summoner can be especially when the party has no official tank. This summoner knew her rotations and the twin we were fighting would only attempt to attack me at most up to only 3-4 secs. The rest of the time the summoner had him CCed or taunted while still being able to keep up good DPS. It was honestly such a humongous difference compared to all the other summoners I've partied up with. Am I saying that most summoners are bad at PvE? Absolutely not! But I am saying that there are only very few summoners who maximize their class's capabilities and make good use of their class's supportive skills. 

 

Also I honestly doubt that you guys are under much pressure as compared to say BMs/KFMs who have to tank. A significant majority of summoners who I've partied with hardly ever get aggro, send cat out and only remember the cat exists to resu them when they die, and just rmb spam. I honestly fail to see the "lots of pressure" you're talking about. If the pressure you mean is "don't taunt, pin, root, CC" during certain boss phases, then you are not exempted since other classes have to refrain from doing the wrongs CCs as well.

 

 

Okay, well I am a good Summoner. I always watch out just as I would as a healer in any other game, I use taunt, seed, and petal when needed. Though, from my POV as a Summoner as the main post you responded to selfish and shitting on people. I thought it would be a good idea to clear up some of the reasons Summoners do that. However, I am not saying I do that. I do a lot of reading and testing my skills before doing anything.

[Meese]

People should turn off the "prioritize debuffed targets" when theyre pvping a summoner. It'll help quite a bit when your game doesnt automatically prioritize the cat over the summoner for your skills if youre attacking and theyre both beside each other. 

 

People tilt against summoners because cat.

FMs can freeze/chill you for days.

KFMs can resist with 1 button press and then stunchain you to death in seconds.

BDs/Dest spin for days and both can 100-0 + cc you very quickly.

BMs can currently hold down RMB and youre dead.

SFs can chain CC and iframe 4days.

WLs can wombo combo you with recent changes quickly.

Sins can PvE you down if they want to be scummy.

 

Every single class has cancerous mechanics. The only difference here is that most classes have a much higher skill ceiling. Summoners are easy to learn? Obviously very much so, but they also are limited to how well they can do. They are a forgiving class ping-wise as well which also attributes them being easier to use. Certain classes are very ping-reliant which on our amazing quality servers can be really rough on them. Skills and skill points are also another limiting factor for a lot of classes. Summoners need very few skill points to do well while other classes require higher HM levels to fully have access to full potentials. Our region doesnt have that quite yet. Leveling is difficult and time consuming which means classes need to sacrifice certain skills while Summoners dont. For anyone that gets defensive about my over-generalizations about their classes, this is the exact same thing that happens with every summoner complaint. Fairs fair.

 

As for PvE, FMs have always been top DPS (even before summoner nerfs) and they just got boosted even more so (Restraint skill faster/easier to use; insta-cast S1 Inferno; new Awakened Skills) and no one is complaining about them being on top because "that's always been a thing". But Summoners being one of the top DPS classes (which is not the case anymore) because they are "support", people lose their minds. But FMs have support skills as well. As do BMs. Sins. BDs. SFs. KFMs. Dest. Wls. Every single class in this game has some sort of support ability to contribute to the party but each of them are geared towards outputting DPS (even tanks have to dps to maintain aggro). Every single class has also been buffed/nerfed because thats the way this game works. It cycles classes as FoTM to maintain their relevance and ensure diversity. Summoner time is now over and WLs are shining again after being nearly gutted completely due to being FoTM for almost an entire year. In a few months another class will share that spot with FMs. And so on and so forth. The issue with these nerfs is that they are tailored towards gear that we dont have and wont have for probably another year. This creates an imbalance in other regions while in KR the nerfs are just small tweaks to even up things. This damage nerf has made me do ~2k less crits on my sunflowers but I can make due with the damage nerfs even though it doesnt feel great to see yourself doing less damage when you worked so hard for gears.

[Scharnhorst]

This whole thread has started to turn into sad, but true, comedy relief. It shows, blatantly for all the world to see, the toxicity of this community. Wonder why a game is dying? Look in the mirror more than NC. I can't tell you the times I've: 1. Seen summoner hate 2. people ridicule players asking for advice in faction chat 3. Bullying 4. Being a general *cricket*. 

 

All those things are why your servers are getting less and less populated. Why would anyone want to stay and listing to all this *cricketing* ****shit that is dished out daily. People who'd rather not be in clans, are joining them so someone can answer questions and help them learn because the community is so toxic.

 

Furthermore, to call people retards shows your own discriminatory attitude, dude, and you let it all be seen. To use a term that it's insulting to people who weren't born with healthy IQ is so odious that it almost...almost...makes me pity you.

 

[Windy]

Bye bye sub .If this class keeps getting a nerf every patch I won't continue to spend money in this game.I don't want to play another class or reroll-I started this game because the cuteness of the class.I don't like to get hit every patch,I was enjoying and having fun .Not anymore tho...

[Kixtar]

Let's be honest, every KFM uses the solo dps buff, not blue buff. they don't buff you, they buff themselves

 

@NCsoft will you comment on these problems? The blatant racism in game, followed by nerfs. You want your largest player base to leave the game? Sounds like a good plan, but maybe we can discuss it before you see droves of summoners quit.

[Etherealz]

 you did this to bm so why can't you do it on summoner aswell nerf it for pvp while it won't affect you pve dmg too much cause to be honest i never heard ppl complaining about pve summ the pvp is the problem

[Suldren]

On 10/29/2016 at 1:49 AM, Etherealz said:

 you did this to bm so why can't you do it on summoner aswell nerf it for pvp while it won't affect you pve dmg too much cause to be honest i never heard ppl complaining about pve summ the pvp is the problem

 It takes a good bit of time killing in tower of infinity and in 6vs6. I mean it could be the lag the game is experiencing due to this update, but I am noticing a huge difference in the time it takes to kill stuff now.

[Holybread]

summoner got nerf especially on sunflower build... but bees are still high dps... me being a summoner doesn't have anythung against it... we got almost all the utilities that we need or might have everything especially when we get all those hm skills... the only good thing I see it now is summoner is not an easy class anymore and not everyone can play it to the maximum... you need brains now to have that dps to be maxed out... for example... for dung... on the trash when aoe is needed go with sunflower since dps is not the issue here... on bosses you need to respec for bees... use the utilities to max it out... petal toss and seed shroud... you need to manage your focus too... just like other classes they got some steps to get maximum dps... 

 

now they can't say summoner is for anyone and just can spam rmb lmb... we need some skills to cover for the nerf and still have those dps... move on and learn new build...

[Aorin]

Hahahaha i cant stop laugh at you guys srsly change class cuse dps nerf? complain cuse your class get lower dps ? you dont even love your charater style u just loved how easy was it whit hight dmg ......im Bm my self from lvl 45 patch  if u dont know what it means than i tell you lowest dps whit no party utility  the only char who had nothing in 45 patch but i still played and dont rerolled to fm or sum or something else for dps cuse i love my playe style !

[Nyvva]

Good job. I would recommend sin next.