Need DPS meter in the game.

[Niskka]

On 2/22/2016 at 1:52 PM, Megapixel said:

Dps meters ruin mmos imo. Sure, it gives an indicator of who's awake in the party but it can disrupt the group synergy and force mistakes in reaction time. Players spend the entire time staring at the meter and not the actual fight. Certain classes cannot sustain dps like others simply because of class type or build. For example, you can't evenly compare a SMN to a KFM in terms of sustainability. I think it would be very obvious to a group if someone is not pulling their weight simply by monitoring what skills they're using and when they use them. For example, if the SMN isn't using Petal Storm during range attack phases then they're a baddie or if the Destroyer isn't knocking down or stunning during an obvious telegraphed attack then they're a baddie. Simply knowing your class is a far better indicator than a damage number imo.

I agree to this. It's about how you use your skills and knowing what skills is best to use. Top that knowing the boss battles and mechanism (which is why i suggest to some to do e-fleet/Night harbor just to get a nice feel for the bosses) putting a dps meter is pointless especially when most classes atk ranges various. I know on my Summoner when i use Bees with the instant cast i could go for 4-5k per hit with some crits in there however on my FM with some fire atks + inferno i could do 10k+ with a ton of crits and she's not even half geared as my Summoner....so yup all depends...even though i still main a summoner despite the dps differences

[Niskka]

1 minute ago, Celestine said:

This is a noble intention - to improve ones' own performance.

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't work. I've experienced myself the introduction of the first DPS meter in WoW classic. At first, there were 2 competing DPS meters and they were quite inaccurate. With time, they got better and better. Back then, I was a progress player. Our whole raid group was so fixated on this tool, it became toxic. Voices requested to kick raidmembers with lowest DPS output. Suddenly single target DPS classes started to do idiotics things just to boost DPS. Players did not evade attacks because of DPS loss and let healers compensate it. DPS players did not use aggro reducing skills as they bring no DPS. So our tanks lost aggro and the raid got wiped. In the end, raid management forbid the DPS meter. It only got better as we got an Aggro-meter.

 

Keep in mind that all kind of dumb people use the DPS meter. Often you heard people to kick the tank or healer "because of low DPS".

 

Having experienced a DPS meter, I can see the advantages and disadvantages. The toxic disadvantages are far more concerning than the advantages. NCsoft/Team Bloodlust should just put in a training dummy ground to measure DPS in that special place without the ability to post it in chat.

I actually like your idea on the training dummy though you can kind of see that in mushin's tower when people starts to beat up the dummies there then idk if players actually tell the person that's probably training them that they do "This amount of dmg" idk usually when i go to the training dummies, i just see what build helps me believe is "good enough" to help out in the dps runs and at my own comfort of using + knowing i wouldn't run out of focus too fast or gets the jifts of how to recover focus w/o emptying it so fast on my summoner

[Erufuun]

On 22.2.2016 at 8:52 PM, Megapixel said:

[...] Players spend the entire time staring at the meter and not the actual fight. Certain classes cannot sustain dps like others simply because of class type or build. For example, you can't evenly compare a SMN to a KFM in terms of sustainability.  I think it would be very obvious to a group if someone is not pulling their weight simply by monitoring what skills they're using and when they use them. [...]

 

No. No people don't. Because by constantly looking at a DPS meter instead of the fight, you're reducing your own DPS.

You don't have to have a balance between classes. Classes are automatically balanced within their own classes. I could compare myself (KFM) to other KFMs. I could still compare myself to other classes. Might be I play KFM well enough to surpass the huge bulk of Assassins. Who knows?

Also DPS meters aren't only tools for determining slackers - because as you sad, sometimes it's obvious. But once you get into endgame where everyone pulls their weight, only hard numbers will help. If I'm constantly racing a buddy of mine for higher DPS, it won't be obvious who 'won' that reace.

 

On 22.2.2016 at 9:24 PM, Keawen said:

The inconvenient of a dps meter  are greater then the advantage so no it shouldn't be  in game.Because next you would see ok i just want certain classes and people would check your gear your soulshield and so forth and discrimination would start all over the place and  it would be very hard to get better gear and start to do decent damage.

 

Au contraire - Having more information cannot be bad in the case of any game.

Plus your argument doesn't really hold - even without DPS meters, people will hold opinions which classes are viable DPS without being able to check. The consequence are people who deny others simply because they've heard a certain class is bad DPS. With no way of proving those wrong, you're off to a bad path.

 

People aren't calling for removal of the Dungeon Finder either. F8 will still be fine. You will still be able to gear up. If you're being denyed entry to a party recruited by people simply aiming to clear content fast, there's ten other parties full of people who need the gear. You will not be denied progression.

 

1 hour ago, Celestine said:

For all those who have not experienced a DPS meter:

 

Imagine Dokumo. We have a fresh lvl45 Assassin with still the lvl 36 weapon (infernal) against a HM4-5 Forcemaster with BSH or whatever. The assassin player is experienced, but the class itself is a single target class. The forcemaster player performs below average, but forcemaster is an AoE class (area bombing class). Now what will you think the DPS will look like? The forcemaster will likely have double or triple the DPS of the assassin until we hit the boss.

 

All bosses in BnS (I really wonder why) are designed to kill melee players. Usually, a boss in any MMO is designed to have at least two stances; melee and ranged (in Tera they even have 3 stances; the 3rd is a hybrid stance). Melee we know in BnS, bosses just hit. The ranged would be a magic spell or hurling anything at forcemasters. In fact, the bosses in BnS just jump or run (Brightstone: roll) towards the ranged players. This is what additionally would distort the numbers in a BnS-DPS meter. A melee will never bring the same DPS like a ranged class (see also Blackwyrm).

 

This is why, actually with this setup, I would refrain from implementing a DPS meter into BnS.

 

I'm not sure what you're telling us? People aren't simply looking at the DPS after a Dokumo fight and disregard all variables leading to the resulting DPS.

And even if they were - guess what - classes scale differently with gear, classes might be more well suited for different boss fights.

 

Also yes - MMOs tend to hate Melee players. So what? Firstly I can still compare to other melee classes. I can compare how much damage I lose compared to ranged classes. Maybe I deal better damage than that FM simply because I do better DPS while I connect, making up for any downtimes - thing is: Without proper data, you can't tell.

 

You always need to take the variables into consideration. They're here, even now. Denying a DPS meter for those reasons is simply holding your eyes shut and going lalala. It's here. And I'd rather know than guess.

 

 

1 hour ago, Celestine said:

This is a noble intention - to improve ones' own performance.

 

Unfortunately, it doesn't work. I've experienced myself the introduction of the first DPS meter in WoW classic. At first, there were 2 competing DPS meters and they were quite inaccurate. With time, they got better and better. Back then, I was a progress player. Our whole raid group was so fixated on this tool, it became toxic. Voices requested to kick raidmembers with lowest DPS output. Suddenly single target DPS classes started to do idiotics things just to boost DPS. Players did not evade attacks because of DPS loss and let healers compensate it. DPS players did not use aggro reducing skills as they bring no DPS. So our tanks lost aggro and the raid got wiped. In the end, raid management forbid the DPS meter. It only got better as we got an Aggro-meter.

 

Keep in mind that all kind of dumb people use the DPS meter. Often you heard people to kick the tank or healer "because of low DPS".

 

Having experienced a DPS meter, I can see the advantages and disadvantages. The toxic disadvantages are far more concerning than the advantages. NCsoft/Team Bloodlust should just put in a training dummy ground to measure DPS in that special place without the ability to post it in chat.

 

So, people are pricks?

If your raid management had to forbid DPS meters, maybe, just maybe, the individual members where to blame for being dumb?

DPS 101 is killing the boss and surviving. Wiping isn't good DPS. Being ressurected by a party member is negative DPS.

 

You always, always need to stay alive to DPS. Maximizing DPS while guaranteeing Survival is the way to go.

 

All you're providing is anecdotal evidence of a group who failed to use a simple tool properly. People kicking tanks and healers because of their low DPS? Well, either they were simply conjuring up a reason to kick people, they are stupid or maybe, just maybe, the content wasn't even hard enough to warrant taking either if they can't DPS properly. When I played AION, I would never take a defensive Templar (Main Tank class) to most dungeons because why would I take a damage sponge who doesn't contribute while boring the hell out of the healer? (Clarification: I did this when I wanted to go through a dungeon fast and I never denied Templar per sé. I just saw no reason to have them in a defensive set that neither deals damage nor holds aggro against actual high DPS.)

 

 

 

[mihwK]

On 22.2.2016 at 8:22 PM, AndJerry said:

We need solid evidence to insult other party members

I don't know, but this was hilarious haha, I had to smile xD

I love DPS meters, it makes running PvE competitive. This would increase my fun, +1 for meters. Having solid evidence to verbally abuse a player is always great too, good argument to ask for a new feature.

 

Make it party only, so ppl in cross dungeons have their peace if insults turn to be a problem.

[Lurkios]

Nope. Nope nope nope.

 

F2P games lend themselves to enough vulgarity by nature of being F2P, there is absolutely no viable reason to give folks a tool that promotes such behavior.

[Laethiel]

On 2/22/2016 at 2:22 PM, AndJerry said:

We need to have DPS meter in the game to compare with DPS of other party members. Not only DPS but also damage taken, CC per minutes, and etc. so we can know who is bad player and who isn't. We need solid evidence to insult other party members if they are not doing anything. Who knows, maybe you can also use this DPS meter to ban bots.

 

 

A DPS meter isn't something i personally see as a "requirement" but they have their uses. Most DPS meters are created by 3rd party modders. I don't know how well this game can be modded if at all. But I would not expect NCsoft to implement such a feature.

[IWantToKnow]

You will never outdamage Warlock/Force Master in pve and if you have 50% ~ critical rate you deal like x2 or even x3 more damage then other classes. I don't think that is good idea to have DPS meter because some classes just way behind in pve. 

[Bezerko]

It's because of people like the Op that I won't support a DPS meter.  It just feeds this kind of elitist attitude. There's already enough toxicity in the game as is.

 

-1

 

EDIT:  Quoted wrong person.  Was trying to quote the op.  Darn phone hit the wrong comment to quote.

[Jinjii]

Here is a fabulous idea:
If you don't want to come across people that are 'not on your level', don't go into cross-server dungeons.

 

That way, you can avoid people that don't meet your standards AND they won't have to deal with being insulted because they're still newish to the game!

 

Sorted.

[DolphinHungry]

filthy casuals everywhere.

 

I would like a personal DPS meter at least. No one else can know the DPS I deal only me.

[Whimsicalalien]

No, thank you. I enjoy not having stupid meter in this game.

[Murkathur]

I don't mind having a personal DPS meter that I can toggle to see optimal rotations for damage. It doesn't mean much now where bosses still have pretty low HP compared to what's to come in the future.

However. I don't like the idea of one that's public to the team. It is a very easy feature to abuse as a reason to be a dick to other party members, and it shouldn't really be your business what their damage is, as long as they still contribute to the fight and understand the mechanics.

[Spoolooni]

I vote there be a system where it anonymously displays the dps of your party members from high to low, their names are not mentioned in the representation but you can see how well you fair up in terms of damage compared to them. It's one of the things i'd like to know so I could then begin working towards better gear.

[Kromede]

28 minutes ago, Spoolooni said:

I vote there be a system where it anonymously displays the dps of your party members from high to low, their names are not mentioned in the representation but you can see how well you fair up in terms of damage compared to them. It's one of the things i'd like to know so I could then begin working towards better gear.

Even with anonymously system soon you will see in game chat:

Example:

*KFM 2000 dps LFG 6/4 dungeons...

*FM 2000 dps LFG 6/4 dungeons...

*SIN LFG 6/4 dungeons

**Chat reply "what's your dps SIN?"

**Sin answer 1500 dps

**A Reply: "get the F**K out of my party" 

 

Best don't have any = no issue = no dramas

[Spoolooni]

1 minute ago, Kromede said:

Even with anonymously system soon you will see in game chat:

Example:

*KFM 2000 dps LFG 6/4 dungeons...

*FM 2000 dps LFG 6/4 dungeons...

*SIN LFG 6/4 dungeons

**Chat reply "what's your dps SIN?"

**Sin answer 1500 dps

**A Reply: "get the F**K out of my party" 

 

Best don't have any = no issue = no dramas

Well, as in...don't have any classes listed at all just say Party DPS: Numbers, no names, no classes, no symbols. 

[DolphinHungry]

20 minutes ago, Kromede said:

Even with anonymously system soon you will see in game chat:

Example:

*KFM 2000 dps LFG 6/4 dungeons...

*FM 2000 dps LFG 6/4 dungeons...

*SIN LFG 6/4 dungeons

**Chat reply "what's your dps SIN?"

**Sin answer 1500 dps

**A Reply: "get the F**K out of my party" 

 

Best don't have any = no issue = no dramas

i dont see anything bad with that. if some people prefer only those with high dps why not?

[Purestic]

I don't think DPS meters or anything that can be used to find out the skill level of someone is necessarily bad, it's just that the players are making it bad. The only result it would have is people pissing eachother off and don't give new players a chance.

 

Anyone who started a game and seriously tried but lacked in gear knows this problem. And even on the other side if you're the one equipped to max and quickly want to run something, why not take one newbie with you as long as he doesn't pull anything/talk shit/stuff, teach him something and make his life easier gearing up. That's a way better mentality.

 

Just think about GW2 for example: 80% of parties require xx k achievement points (which are totally stupid anyway) and people think they mean something. Systems like these are going to get abused and make a game more elitist than necessary, which is nothing more than a lack of self confidence in RL.

[Erufuun]

15 hours ago, IWantToKnow said:

You will never outdamage Warlock/Force Master in pve and if you have 50% ~ critical rate you deal like x2 or even x3 more damage then other classes. I don't think that is good idea to have DPS meter because some classes just way behind in pve. 

 

Any source or just a guess? :'D (I doubt you actually know that without any hard numbers.)

 

13 hours ago, Purestic said:

I don't think DPS meters or anything that can be used to find out the skill level of someone is necessarily bad, it's just that the players are making it bad. The only result it would have is people pissing eachother off and don't give new players a chance.

 

Anyone who started a game and seriously tried but lacked in gear knows this problem. And even on the other side if you're the one equipped to max and quickly want to run something, why not take one newbie with you as long as he doesn't pull anything/talk shit/stuff, teach him something and make his life easier gearing up. That's a way better mentality.

 

Just think about GW2 for example: 80% of parties require xx k achievement points (which are totally stupid anyway) and people think they mean something. Systems like these are going to get abused and make a game more elitist than necessary, which is nothing more than a lack of self confidence in RL.

 

This game features a great (albeit currently bot-flooded) dungeon finder where DPS doesn't matter. You will always find a party to your dungeon regardless of gear ot DPS. You will be able to gear up just fine, period.

 

If high DPS players want to farm a dungeon fast and hard, they have every right to look for DPS who can keep up. Nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean they don't care about low geared players, it doesn't mean they don't like teaching or showing the way to new players either. Just sometimes you want to have something done quick.

 

[Grevier]

We simply can't have a DPS meter in the game because the community is already at a radioactive toxic levels.

Can you imagine how toxic can it become with a DPS meter?

[Purestic]

59 minutes ago, Erufuun said:

 

Any source or just a guess? :'D (I doubt you actually know that without any hard numbers.)

 

 

This game features a great (albeit currently bot-flooded) dungeon finder where DPS doesn't matter. You will always find a party to your dungeon regardless of gear ot DPS. You will be able to gear up just fine, period.

 

If high DPS players want to farm a dungeon fast and hard, they have every right to look for DPS who can keep up. Nothing wrong with that. It doesn't mean they don't care about low geared players, it doesn't mean they don't like teaching or showing the way to new players either. Just sometimes you want to have something done quick.

 

Yeah but like I said, it's probably going to influence the normal dungeons aswell. It's totally fine for high geared players wanting to farm a dungeon efficiently but that's the only upside vs. many downsides.

[Izah]

thats the crap wow players who need a meter to feel better than other players hate this wow culture

request denied

[Palin]

I support the idea of a DPS meters. However, honestly, in this game the DPS meter may hurt more than help. The classes aren't meant to be dps-machines, but to do damage while mitigating as much damage as possible for the group - every class can do this. I hardly ever see KFM/BM ever tank, and many summoners I see in groups have their pets set to do damage rather than tank, too. Sometimes a group needs these classes to sacrifice damage to mitigate group damage and a dps meter is going to further encourage people to just pump out the deepz.

[Erufuun]

1 hour ago, Purestic said:

Yeah but like I said, it's probably going to influence the normal dungeons aswell. It's totally fine for high geared players wanting to farm a dungeon efficiently but that's the only upside vs. many downsides.

 

I'm sorry, the only downside I see is douches being douches over something else.

It's not going to influence normal dungeons, especially as long as even the most stuck-up players cannot kick someone out of an F8 party. And even then - that won't occur to often.

How do you see an effect on F8 dungeons? (Honest question)

 

1 hour ago, Palin said:

I support the idea of a DPS meters. However, honestly, in this game the DPS meter may hurt more than help. The classes aren't meant to be dps-machines, but to do damage while mitigating as much damage as possible for the group - every class can do this. I hardly ever see KFM/BM ever tank, and many summoners I see in groups have their pets set to do damage rather than tank, too. Sometimes a group needs these classes to sacrifice damage to mitigate group damage and a dps meter is going to further encourage people to just pump out the deepz.

 

Blade and Soul doesn't have a trinity. At best, it has got hints of a slight duality because tanks exist. When the trinity is gone though, all that remains is DPS.

All you can hope to achieve is to maximize DPS while guaranteeing survival. The famed DPS hero will wipe the party in the game - correct. You know - being dead is horrible DPS and if you can't kill a boss, DPS doesn't mean anything.

 

Every proper DPS player aims to stay alive first and foremost. The DPS player will however reduce the defensive effort to the bare minimum that still guarantees a successful boss fight.

[Purestic]

4 minutes ago, Erufuun said:

 

I'm sorry, the only downside I see is douches being douches over something else.

It's not going to influence normal dungeons, especially as long as even the most stuck-up players cannot kick someone out of an F8 party. And even then - that won't occur to often.

How do you see an effect on F8 dungeons? (Honest question)

You can already kick people out of F8 if you're doing BSH/BSC. It just isn't available in Big4 and a DPS-meter won't influence these, I think.

 

Well, you may be right about that. I'm not as sure anymore that there's a big difference between the mentality behind dps-meters and the amount of AP. I don't know.

[Archess]

On 22-2-2016 at 8:22 PM, AndJerry said:

We need to have DPS meter in the game to compare with DPS of other party members. Not only DPS but also damage taken, CC per minutes, and etc. so we can know who is bad player and who isn't. We need solid evidence to insult other party members if they are not doing anything. Who knows, maybe you can also use this DPS meter to ban bots.

 

Like when we went into Brightstone dungeon the other day, 5 lvl 45's and one lvl 43, first thing someone says, "kick the lvl 43".... i ask why ? the response: he is lvl 43....guess the guy skipped being 43 i suppose and Brightstone is so hard it needs 6 lvls 45....so i refused. Immidiatly the guy jumps to a conclusion and types: oooh i get it, its your friend.

Now skip to a dps meter and much more bad shit will come out of it.

 

The only place a DPS meter is good, is a Raid with your guild and an officer uses it to asses peoples DPS and what they could do to get some people to improve it, not judge 6 strangers in a stupid dungeon you can solo.