New Math?

[Astarae]

I tried beating Yunsang again and failed miserably.  How can that be rated as a 1-star quest and celestial basin 3-stars when celestial basin takes me

< 30s fighting, but Yunsang, I've tried about 10 times or more and never gotten his hits down to half?

 

Anyway...I had full hits, and a few bonuses and looked at his damage (because it was so short, it wasn't much).

 

Me: AP: 1196, HP:196206

 

In the battle he gave me:

dmg          power (+addon effects)

17398        ironclad quake wave
                +stun + tortured soul
36105        hurl
                +knockback
23653     23653 - heart stealer
                + daze
20675        dragon wave
                +knockback
18952        heart stealer
                +daze
                +near-death
-------
116793 damage total

 

drained by me:
1029+841+848+858 = 3576  (minor offset by me draining some of his hits)

 

 196206 my hits
-116793  damage
  +3576   hits gained
    -----
    82989   should have had, but instead had "near death"

 

I have on all the combat checks, to see everything -- but somehow he could put me near death with over 40% of my hits left.

 

I kept thinking "was I at full hits...maybe I didn't heal after that last battle...".  But I made sure, and still I should be 80k away

from near death (not that it would make much difference against his 6million)....

 

So how do I get near death so fast when only 60% of my hits are gone?  This some sort of new math I'm not familiar with?

 

Also --  how do I get 6+ million hits so I can last longer than 22 seconds  (actual time of last battle) seconds...I might last

a bit longer in PvP as well...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Quantum]

Bosses can recover hp, that's where bleed debuff comes in handy.

[Astarae]

yeah, but where did my extra hp go?  I didn't get a message about him sucking the life out of me...which I would assume I would if he did (no?)...

 

[Annysan]

I have no idea why this is rated a one star dungeon and basin a three star. Yungsang is rather mechanical heavy... And you are right, those numbers do not quite add up.

 

That does not really matter though, you got a different problem. The point of him is not to facetank and eat every single one of his attacks, but you need to learn the pattern and evade it. That is what you should be working on, not more hp ;) of course, with enough gear you can kinda faceroll him, because he is dead in a few seconds, but that is obviously not the case for you. So stop looking at how much every single thing does and learn how to not get hit (yeah I know easier said than done, but it is the only thing that works), there are many video guides out there.

 

[Grimzy]

Exactly.

 

The easy part about yusang is he has a very fixed and tighet rotation of his attacks which makes it easier to avoid.

You have to however consider that if you do too much dps the patters changes and some elements can be skipped.

 

Are you sure you are doing all the mechanics properly?

Are you jumping over the wave when he jumps? are you making sure he doesnt grab you twice? Are you countering when he starts to spin?

[Fiana]

of course he is 1 star, he's so easy to kill, only 6mil hp lol

i can kill him in 1 min,

watch youtube guide before you fight him, even baeful can kill him with proper way

if you can't kill yunsang, you're not worthy of that VT gear :3

[Amarathiel]

There are 2 major gimmicks with Yunsang and if you dont do those right you are instantly dead.

 

1. The shockwaves. You have to jump over the shockwaves or else you get a DoT debuff that stacks. 3 stacks = most often instant near death

2. Do not ever go over 9m away from him. Otherwise he grabs you and inflicts another debuff. 2 stacks = instant near death. same debuff happens from his lift attack.

 

These 2 over pretty much the reason people dont seem to be able to kill him. Mostly might be the jumping because if you have a very high ping its pretty hard to avoid and

in that case you have to learn anticipate when it is going to happen and jump ahead of time to compensate for that latency.

[Thicc Stoccpot]

Your Ap and hp do matter but if you don't know how to fight him then they are for naught.

 

"Know how to fight him" here means know what he'd do, his rotation... What he'd do at certain percentages and how to react.

 

To explain things would take a lot of time. I suggest you go watch youtube and go fail some more till you get it. You may consider my advice worthless but the above was precisely what I did and considering you have almost 1.2k ap, you are stronger than I was and am, you should be aight.

 

Also, remain within 8m from him, farther than that and he'd do the heart grab move. Get hit once and you'd be unable to heal for 30 sec. Get hit a second time and it's stant death. This move can be avoid by using tab escape or f backroll.

 

Second is jump over his shockwave. If you get hit by the shockwave you lose hp over time. Worst case is you get hit by both shockwave and heart grab, since that means you both lose hp over time and unable to heal at the same time.

 

Since you play range, you just run circle around him and stay within 8m. The only attack worth noticing is the spin move. He'll charge and spin towards you. if you hit into his spin you'll get stunned. If you GET hit by his spin you get knocked back.

[Astarae]

I appreciate the fighting advice, but had already watched a vid...

I still wanna know why the math is so messed up.  It's not even close, so there has to be something going on that's causing damage but isn't being listed.  That's bad -- since it doesn't tell you what is really killing you.   Related, is when you see:

Received 2397 damage from .

or

"[Monster]" received 2397 damage from .

 

When you are fighting 1:1 w/an enemy.  You don't know what caused it, but at least you see the damage being done.

[Inundated]

If you get hit by one of the rings you should be jumping over, the debuff does DoT damage to you too. You can't just look at his physical attack damage or it obviously won't add up.

[Cor]

3 hours ago, Astarae said:

I appreciate the fighting advice, but had already watched a vid...

I still wanna know why the math is so messed up.  It's not even close, so there has to be something going on that's causing damage but isn't being listed.  That's bad -- since it doesn't tell you what is really killing you.   Related, is when you see:

Received 2397 damage from .

or

"[Monster]" received 2397 damage from .

 

When you are fighting 1:1 w/an enemy.  You don't know what caused it, but at least you see the damage being done.

Nothing wrong with the damage shown, as someone already pointed out there is an instant kill attack. Do not get grabbed a second time while the debuff from the first grab is on you or you die no matter what your hp is.

[Thicc Stoccpot]

16 hours ago, Astarae said:

still wanna know why the math is so messed up.  It's not even close, so there has to be something going on that's causing damage but isn't being listed.  That's bad -- since it doesn't tell you what is really killing you.   Related, is when you see:

Received 2397 damage from .

or

"[Monster]" received 2397 damage from .

By my guess, you were either killed by the DoT damage - caused by not dodging the shockwave rings. Each time you get hit you get one stack, so 2 times getting hit means 2 stacks, etc... Each stack I think does about 2 or 3K hp every 5 second, so 2 stacks would be 4 or 6 k every 5 sec, 3 stacks would be 6 or 9 k etc.

 

Or you got killed by getting heart grab twice. If you get grabbed the 2nd time when the debuff of the first one is still on, you would be instant killed no matter if you have 300k hp and max gears and etc, and you got only yourself to blame because after all, you fail to dodge them in the first place. 

 

Overall the boss I think is fair.

 

I've seen people even clear Yunsang with 80k ap and baleful 8 with no elemental damage whatsoever (granted that person - a SF, has good ping, like sub 100ms ingame.) They could do so because they know the mechanics, the rules of the boss fight, and abide by them. No matter how much gears you have, you must not and probably cannot ignore the mechanics. Brute force dps usually doesn't yield much fruit with the gimmick-based type of boss like Yunsang, unless you can burst like KR endgame players - fire gunner/shadow Assassin burst up to 3.5 million dps, then yeah you can ignore mechanics then since he'd be dead so fast he couldn't even do mech.

[Astarae]

Why would you blame yourself for not dodging?  There usually isn't much to dodge, but when there is, I dodge some.  I watched a video but it wasn't for gunner.  He does different things in game than I've seen in vids w/other character types.  Yeah, sub 100ms ingame -- have actually seen some.  My best is 120ms, though in battle, its usually over 200.  It's not the net either -- I can do pings to the server and its pretty steady at 50-55ms. 

 

But first thing he does is jumps *to* me and grabs me.  If I am close enough to stop him jumping, I find it hard to maintain attack while dodging.  If I need to iframe something -- my jumps will usually take me out to his jump+grab range. 

 

More often than not, if I can't DPS it, I can't do it, because doing the mechs, slows down the DPS so much that I've hit rage timers in the past.  I try the mechs if they aren't too insane, but staying inside 5m w/his close range damage and a gunners low-defense, is not trivial.

 

You mention the boss is "fair"?  Who mentioned "fair" (or "not fair")?  Wouldn't that be pretty arbitrary based on many factors?  Unfair is when the game expects you to pay 8k-gold (~$120-150) for materials to upgrade 1 item you need, 1 level, but perhaps if I was given a billion G /month, I'd have a different opinion... ;-)

 

 

 

[Racingwind]

First of all how the heck do you have 196206 hp (I assume that's what you mean by hits)?

 

I'm sure the math is correct and you may have missed some entries.

 

Yunsang requires you to be close to him and side step some attacks while iframing others. You will need to figure out which ones. Yunsang is tuned so that you MUST do mechanics or he will deal raid boss level damage to you, which usually results in you dying pretty quick.

 

Once you get used to it, you should not have difficulty attacking while doing mechs. Having HM block specced to counter will help alot. Don't know your gear but being over 1.1k should mean you are at least BT level geared, which is plenty enough to down him. Just need more practice.

[EclipseOfFire]

Just to let you know if your heart grabbed twice you get insta killed just iframe it 

 

[Astarae]

Could you define 'iframe', cuz I'm a bit vague on what is meant -- if it is me invoking some skill, in many cases, it may not be usable due to cooldowns if its an attack the boss uses frequently.  I think the heart grab falls into that category, but I sitll

am unclear on iframing things.

 

 

tnx.

 

[Astarae]

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Racingwind said:

First of all how the heck do you have 196206 hp (I assume that's what you mean by hits)?

How does anyone?  I've seen people with over 200k, so?  FWIW, there was some item or charm that gave out at least 20k recently, and with no items/buffs, just allocating Hongmoon Points all in defense give me over 180k...so what? 

 

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Racingwind said:

I'm sure the math is correct and you may have missed some entries.

I did it more than once.  I made sure all messages were on in the log section.  The battle was 22 seconds -- easy to see the complete transcript.  I didn't miss any *listed* entries.  If you are saying I missed the unlisted ones...well "duh" (one of the points of the post).

 

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Racingwind said:

Yunsang requires you to be close to him and side step some attacks while iframing others. You will need to figure out which ones. Yunsang is tuned so that you MUST do mechanics or he will deal raid boss level damage to you, which usually results in you dying pretty quick.

Ahh...so he's a raid level boss and I can bring along a 12-member party...my mistake, I thought it was a solo dungeon.  And what type of character am I, a gunner -- a ranged class.  So I have to stay within 5m? And respond in < a sec while trying to watch for cooldowns to try to make most use of higher damage skills and have backstep and hooks take you 12m or more as a minimum, that if needed, would take me out of his close-range?  So what skills do gunners have to do iframe?

 

But with a 12-member or even a 6 member party, I'm sure a "raid level boss" (who deals "raid boss level damage") won't be a problem.  OTOH, if you are supposedly doing a solo dungeon -- then what the *bleep* is a raid-level boss doing there?  Even if I could do 100k DPS consistently, (which is not likely in a solo setting where I'm interrupted constantly), with 6m hits,  he's still 60 seconds to take down.

 

On Wednesday, April 25, 2018 at 10:45 AM, Racingwind said:

Once you get used to it, you should not have difficulty attacking while doing mechs. Having HM block specced to counter will help alot. Don't know your gear but being over 1.1k should mean you are at least BT level geared, which is plenty enough to down him. Just need more practice.

Once you get used to it?  And how long is that?  I've yet to see any videos on mechs he does with a gunner -- he uses different moves from the start than the vids I've seen on other classes.  Maybe if I saw how it was done, I might get some hints, but I've yet to see any gunner vids doing Yunsang.  Maybe you can record yourself and post it so I can see how easy it is to do on a gunner?

 

Thanks!

 

 

 

[Thicc Stoccpot]

I frame means dodge. Dodge boss' attacks.

 

And I just typed Yunsang gunner and this popped right up:

 

 

Just do what he did, or watch and learned what he did in the vid. Of course the fight won't be 100% alike since you have different dps from the player in the vid, and that yunsang has random attack rotation outside of his mech phases. But from this vid you should be able to learn how to react to each move that the boss uses 

[Amarathiel]

The video above pretty much sums it all up. In addition a common mistake a lot of people do is they use dodge skills to dodge majority of the normal, simple attacks and then they have the dodge skills on cooldown when boss does something big which is a big nono. Only use dodge skills on attacks that cause serious problems such as huge damage hits, debuffs, stuns, knockbacks ect. and let all other attacks either hit you or just simply walk out of the range with your movement keys lol. That's one reason being right next to a boss even on ranged class is best thing to do. You can avoid all frontal attacks by just moving 1 step forwards and bam, you are suddenly behind him and the attack will completely miss you without using a single dodge move thus saving them for unblockable aoes or mechanics.

[Sinned]

On 4/19/2018 at 3:50 AM, Astarae said:

I tried beating Yunsang again and failed miserably.  How can that be rated as a 1-star quest and celestial basin 3-stars when celestial basin takes me

< 30s fighting, but Yunsang, I've tried about 10 times or more and never gotten his hits down to half?

 

Anyway...I had full hits, and a few bonuses and looked at his damage (because it was so short, it wasn't much).

 

Me: AP: 1196, HP:196206

 

In the battle he gave me:

dmg          power (+addon effects)

17398        ironclad quake wave
                +stun + tortured soul
36105        hurl
                +knockback
23653     23653 - heart stealer
                + daze
20675        dragon wave
                +knockback
18952        heart stealer
                +daze
                +near-death
-------
116793 damage total

 

drained by me:
1029+841+848+858 = 3576  (minor offset by me draining some of his hits)

 

 196206 my hits
-116793  damage
  +3576   hits gained
    -----
    82989   should have had, but instead had "near death"

 

I have on all the combat checks, to see everything -- but somehow he could put me near death with over 40% of my hits left.

 

I kept thinking "was I at full hits...maybe I didn't heal after that last battle...".  But I made sure, and still I should be 80k away

from near death (not that it would make much difference against his 6million)....

 

So how do I get near death so fast when only 60% of my hits are gone?  This some sort of new math I'm not familiar with?

 

Also --  how do I get 6+ million hits so I can last longer than 22 seconds  (actual time of last battle) seconds...I might last

a bit longer in PvP as well...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your math is off, because if you don't jump ovetr the wave, you get a damage over time de-buff. And the 2nd one is that heart-stealer kills you if applied 2 times, if you have the heart stealer de-buff and he do it 2nd time, you can be on 5000000000 HP and will instantly die (it's written on the de-buff as well). And yes, you'll have to do mechanics, AP helps you skip some of them, but doesn't mean that you'll simply face roll on the keyboard to kill it, untill you can take all his HP before his first attack like Naksun.

[Sinned]

On 4/24/2018 at 3:12 PM, Thicc Stoccpot said:

By my guess, you were either killed by the DoT damage - caused by not dodging the shockwave rings. Each time you get hit you get one stack, so 2 times getting hit means 2 stacks, etc... Each stack I think does about 2 or 3K hp every 5 second, so 2 stacks would be 4 or 6 k every 5 sec, 3 stacks would be 6 or 9 k etc.

 

Or you got killed by getting heart grab twice. If you get grabbed the 2nd time when the debuff of the first one is still on, you would be instant killed no matter if you have 300k hp and max gears and etc, and you got only yourself to blame because after all, you fail to dodge them in the first place. 

 

Overall the boss I think is fair.

 

I've seen people even clear Yunsang with 80k ap and baleful 8 with no elemental damage whatsoever (granted that person - a SF, has good ping, like sub 100ms ingame.) They could do so because they know the mechanics, the rules of the boss fight, and abide by them. No matter how much gears you have, you must not and probably cannot ignore the mechanics. Brute force dps usually doesn't yield much fruit with the gimmick-based type of boss like Yunsang, unless you can burst like KR endgame players - fire gunner/shadow Assassin burst up to 3.5 million dps, then yeah you can ignore mechanics then since he'd be dead so fast he couldn't even do mech.

The average AP when Yungsang got introduced was around 800. First time I've killed it I was with Baleful 10, just because I was at that stage before it got introduced or upgraded shortly after (and I didn't do it on the first try, ofc). You have to know your class though, I can't kill it on my SF even with over 1K AP and Raven weapon, but that's an alt, way different from the FM main.... I agree with you on everything said.

[Racingwind]

On 2018-05-02 at 1:19 PM, Astarae said:

How does anyone?  I've seen people with over 200k, so?  FWIW, there was some item or charm that gave out at least 20k recently, and with no items/buffs, just allocating Hongmoon Points all in defense give me over 180k...so what? 

Anyone can get that much HP with HP soul shield, maxed out pet and HM 16+, with all points into defensive. Then the question is, why the heck are you still having trouble killing him if your HM level and gear are so far ahead?

On 2018-05-02 at 1:19 PM, Astarae said:

I did it more than once.  I made sure all messages were on in the log section.  The battle was 22 seconds -- easy to see the complete transcript.  I didn't miss any *listed* entries.  If you are saying I missed the unlisted ones...well "duh" (one of the points of the post).

Did you perhaps miss the instant kill because of heart breaker stacks? Which is the point of my post.

On 2018-05-02 at 1:19 PM, Astarae said:

Ahh...so he's a raid level boss and I can bring along a 12-member party...my mistake, I thought it was a solo dungeon.  And what type of character am I, a gunner -- a ranged class.  So I have to stay within 5m? And respond in < a sec while trying to watch for cooldowns to try to make most use of higher damage skills and have backstep and hooks take you 12m or more as a minimum, that if needed, would take me out of his close-range?  So what skills do gunners have to do iframe?

Yes he is a raid level boss, but not a raid boss. And no you didn't think wrong, it is a solo dungeon. He just deals damage like a boss, he is Yunsang after all. Yes, you are a ranged class, but that doesn't mean you can't stand in melee, it's easy, move towards him instead of away from him. He has a set attack pattern with specific tells, you don't need to react to his movements, you predict his movements. Back step and whipline are both 12m. You are standing 6 meters away from him, SS or whipline through him, you are 6m away, move in while he is animation locked. Not sure why you think you HAVE to SS or whipline away from him. As for other gunner iframes, 1 counter and X.

On 2018-05-02 at 1:19 PM, Astarae said:

But with a 12-member or even a 6 member party, I'm sure a "raid level boss" (who deals "raid boss level damage") won't be a problem.  OTOH, if you are supposedly doing a solo dungeon -- then what the *bleep* is a raid-level boss doing there?  Even if I could do 100k DPS consistently, (which is not likely in a solo setting where I'm interrupted constantly), with 6m hits,  he's still 60 seconds to take down.

His damage is raid level boss yes, but ever notice that his HP seems to be extremely low for a raid level boss? Because seriously, if you have raid boss level damage, it must be expected to be a raid level boss in every aspect, right? Yunsang is a boss no doubt, that happens to deal alot of damage, along with a huge bleed and instant kill mechanics, but with a solo level HP, that's why he is in that tower. Many of his abilities can be simply side stepped if you just circle him, for the ones that can't, you just need to iframe, which takes less than 1 second. Even if it takes 60 seconds to beat him down, what's the problem? It's not like he enrages after 1 minute.

On 2018-05-02 at 1:19 PM, Astarae said:

Once you get used to it?  And how long is that?  I've yet to see any videos on mechs he does with a gunner -- he uses different moves from the start than the vids I've seen on other classes.  Maybe if I saw how it was done, I might get some hints, but I've yet to see any gunner vids doing Yunsang.  Maybe you can record yourself and post it so I can see how easy it is to do on a gunner?

Yes, once you get used to it you will have a much easier time. I'm a slow learner, so it took me about 2 hours to get it right. I can't say anything about you, but I'm sure you learn faster than me. He attacks with a set pattern and does specific things, he doesn't attack differently against different classes. The attacks are the same with very specific tells, you side step or you iframe, that's it. Someone beat me to it posting a video, he was nice enough to spoon feed so I won't record myself doing his mechanics. As to how easy, well gee, I don't know, as easy as bursting his ass down to 35% with 1 set of bullet storm? And why didn't I get interrupted while doing bullet storm? I don't know, maybe I used X.

On 2018-05-02 at 1:19 PM, Astarae said:

Thanks!

You are welcome! Hope I have properly replicated your tone in my post. After all, you seem to prefer it this way.

 

Oh as a bonus. To answer your original question since it seems I forgot to do that, my bad.

On 2018-04-18 at 5:50 PM, Astarae said:

In the battle he gave me:

dmg
23653     23653 - heart stealer          <-------------------- First stack of heart stealer. Watch out! One more and it's instant death!
                + daze
20675        dragon wave
                +knockback
18952        heart stealer                     <-------------------- Second stack of heart stealer. Didn't I warn you about having two stacks of this = instant death?
                +daze
                +near-death                        <--------------------- Told you.

Yep, the math isn't wrong, it works out.

[Astarae]

20 hours ago, Racingwind said:

You are welcome! Hope I have properly replicated your tone in my post. After all, you seem to prefer it this way.

Believe it or not, I didn't catch a special 'tone' in how you communicated.  So I guess it was fine ... hmmm...I get that was likely suppose to be a slight, but I probably wouldn't have noticed it if you hadn't told me it was intentional...

 

It would be useful if the heart-stealer mentioned in the combat log that it was an instant death.

 

Of course, it would also be useful if the game had a concept of 'saving throws', instead of the opposite: 'failing throws'...where doesn't really matter what your hits are, you are dead.  ;-/  I watched the video, wonder from how long ago it was -- the skills aren't the same and looks like level 50 was the max.  Also, it helps to not be lagged (would have been nice to see his

ping), but he responded in .5 to .75 seconds and didn't seem to miss a one.  This is my 1st mmorg, and having a lag up to .330 (typically around .2-.225 in battle, .150-.17 outside of battle) would seem to cut into that .5/.75.  He was still fast, regardless of lag issues, but I don't think the attack values then and now are comparable given that w/lvl 55 addition, they said they raised the difficulty of the monsters as well.  But catching every incoming wave w/in .25-.5s...*ouch*...that's tight.  Easy?  I wouldn't call that easy.  (it's easier to do the timings if you look at the ingame count-down timer and run the vid at 1/4th speed).

 

BTW, my pet is fairly high, but I don't have much in defense (10pt) @ HM13.  (https://bnstree.com/character/na/Astará).