Ujarac

Don't try pvp

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Easy to learn but hard to master huh? well by your logic they are both like that if you break down their goals. Chess is about killing the enemy king or forcing them to surrender while protecting your own king. BnS is about killing your opponent or dealing the most damage in the allotted time. Both concepts easy to understand and learn, but how you go about achieving these goals is what makes them hard to master.

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Ezzz   
2 hours ago, Mirryn said:

This topic is great...

 

Chess is easy ... OK buddy.

 

So tell me why is 1. f3 the worst opening move possible?

Or why has 1. h4 never been used in a competitive match?

 

And these are just simple things you can Google

 

Comparing BnS to chess is a GREAT example... now go beat a Grandmaster LOL

Again, openings are part of tactic - mastery the game, not learning game rules.

 

Yes, this comparing is great example since BnS in broken from fundamentals. It is bases what means good game, at this phase the genre is not important because fundamentals are universal.

 

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Shuchin   

Actually I completely see the point about the difficulty of getting into B&S PvP.

 

For casual players, starting PvP here is like walking into a ninja warzone armed with a hammer searching for the nail to hit. 90% of the time you do not even know what hit you.

 

However, I don't think the PvP system is flawed, but rather this is a consequence of a new style of game. The advantage of chess may be that the rules are easy to learn, but the disadvantage is that it's inherently boring. B&S is like playing 36 different chess games, one for each class match up combination. It's something for people who like to win by learning, and who dislike small margin decisions based on reaction time or very long term strategy decisions. Seems like pro's and cons to me.

 

That said, I do like chess too, though I never managed to beat an elo 1500 so far. XD

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PatchKid   

Honestly, I think latency is the bigger PvP wall than skills and practice.  If you will never have a solid ping of less than 80ms, you're never going to be "good" at BnS PvP.  You can give it your best, but you'll always struggle to win against players with substantially better latency.

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icyak   

This is probably the best game that you can ever imagine to play:

you as 740AP cca, and your team below 700. against you are 4 guys 850+ with true soul... that is what I call fun... 

You can play different games such as but not limited to:

Who will die first?

Who will die faster?

Who will receive more dmg?

Who will receive higher critical dmg? 

Will you be able to run around in beluga without death?

 

and after you win in 1 of these categories you can start another:

Will I receive more than 10 Battle points?

Will it be 0?

 

so from 1600+ ranking you just want, WANT and REALLY WANT to drop to WOOD (if there is) or below, you want to drop to ocean trench, and be there with other 740AP guys.

I am on my way to WOOD ranking, I am already at 1500 ranking, getting these guys from Pay and Soul game is easy.

So this is game what I play, if you got any idea regarding minigames please send me what you prefer to play in BG when you are having such a good time and fun :) 

 

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Zerecas   

 

And fanboys still think its the best, still think balance exist.

Don't make me laugh.

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N3ro   
3 hours ago, Zerecas said:

 

And fanboys still think its the best, still think balance exist.

Don't make me laugh.

Looks like an exceptional noobstomp. Not really too sold on destro op yet at least not because of that. The damage does not seem that insane considering he uses an offensive emberstomp AND redbuff for THAT... Yes there is no emberstomp resistence, he gets a different buff and giving up blue buff is also a huge tradeoff. Im also pretty sure destros do more damage right now with only redbuff and the usual anicancel combos, keeping emberstomp with the resist.

 

But its probably hilarious for trolling and low tier players get the job done with pressing 3 buttons, while anyone good will probably stop doing it at some point as it gets outclassed by alternatives. Could be wrong, but thats what i think of it just looking at that video.

 

+ thats his character chilling in silver rankings http://bns.plaync.com/bs/character/profile/ezpzgarbage?s=1

Edited by N3ro

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Suna   
1 hour ago, N3ro said:

Looks like an exceptional noobstomp. Not really too sold on destro op yet at least not because of that. The damage does not seem that insane considering he uses an offensive emberstomp AND redbuff for THAT... Yes there is no emberstomp resistence, he gets a different buff and giving up blue buff is also a huge tradeoff. Im also pretty sure destros do more damage right now with only redbuff and the usual anicancel combos, keeping emberstomp with the resist.

 

But its probably hilarious for trolling and low tier players get the job done with pressing 3 buttons, while anyone good will probably stop doing it at some point as it gets outclassed by alternatives. Could be wrong, but thats what i think of it just looking at that video.

 

+ thats his character chilling in silver rankings http://bns.plaync.com/bs/character/profile/ezpzgarbage?s=1

Damage is not important factor in this "combo". What is important, you can not tab escape out from that wallbang. And well it require 0 cc as well.

Edited by Suna

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newbiez   
5 hours ago, Zerecas said:

 

And fanboys still think its the best, still think balance exist.

Don't make me laugh.

no escape spin =O

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N3ro   
1 hour ago, Suna said:

Damage is not important factor in this "combo". What is important, you can not tab escape out from that wallbang. And well it require 0 cc as well.

Seems to me like you can after you get wallbanged 2-4times it stops.

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Suna   
2 hours ago, N3ro said:

Seems to me like you can after you get wallbanged 2-4times it stops.

Animation stops at there, but i have not seen anybody tab that. I can be wrong also.

Edited by Suna

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You can't Tab it period.

And we're lucky that arena is gear equalized because in open world it's even worse with the chi refill buffs on weapons, you don't even need fury or anything to take down people with 200k+ HP. AT least in Arena they need fury for this to even be a thing.

 

 

But unless the devs reached a whole new level of stupidity it'll be fixed in the near future so I wouldn't worry... at least not yet.

 

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Hinu   

While maybe not fully working as intended,the endless wallbang red spin can be countered by classes' Q/E and ss iframes.  The dest from the "EZ GARBAGE" vid did that after baiting his opponent's Q/Es . If you wonder too,it is just a noobstomp vid tho it has its issues and will most likely be tweaked. To be honest,wallbang mechanic in itself is prob more the issue there than the endless knockdown/knockback redspin.

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1 hour ago, Hinu said:

While maybe not fully working as intended,the endless wallbang red spin can be countered by classes' Q/E and ss iframes.

No.

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Suna   

destro already get nerfed yesterday, it was only 1 week thing

 

Destroyer

  • Typhoon (Type 3)
    • Now can only be used up to 4 times
    • Now applies knockback joint attack once
    • Tooltip not displaying damage on consecutive use fixed
    • Damage on consecutive use decreased
Edited by Suna

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Shiro   
On 2/19/2017 at 2:49 PM, N3ro said:

This is one of the only games i ever uploaded in my life, so i´ll just post this again. I hit two snipes in a row, one got evaded (too bad this does not proove my 30% evade chance, but oh well small sample size) then i missed one shadow slash. And i also missed one lightning rod, though the lighting rod i didn´t really plan to do, but was forced to duo to an earlier mistake.

Please you're joking right? This is exactly the problem with sins, and you prove it. The cooldowns. Not stealth itself.

 

Sin is the only class in the whole game with about half cooldown on CCs than anyone else. I have no idea what's with these devs and love for sins. You talk about missing skills as it's something that happens and normal, and just a minor mistake that you can recover from. But this applies only to spoiled sin class. Every other class, if they miss a CC or especially two, it's game over and you lose the round (unless opponent also misses)

 

Sin has:

2 sec stun on 9s CD

3 sec stun on 24s CD

2 sec stun on 18s CD

3 sec daze on 18s CD

3 sec  daze on 18s CD (another)

 

please, this must be a joke if you compare it with other classes, let's take KFM as example.

 

2 sec stun 36s CD

3 sec stun 45s CD

2 sec daze 45s CD

2 sec daze 30s CD

 

there's 1 more stun / daze but they require enemy to hit you (in counter or resist) so they're not that reliable

 

And on top of that it's SIN who gets TWO escapes, with the main escape being the best in the game by far (free stealth even if enemy dodges it, unlike other classes, it's like summoner + melee daze escape in one)

 

But nvm sin players will never understand how it is to play with actual cooldowns as they're too spoiled already.

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N3ro   
2 hours ago, Shiro said:

Please you're joking right? This is exactly the problem with sins, and you prove it. The cooldowns. Not stealth itself.

 

Sin is the only class in the whole game with about half cooldown on CCs than anyone else. I have no idea what's with these devs and love for sins. You talk about missing skills as it's something that happens and normal, and just a minor mistake that you can recover from. But this applies only to spoiled sin class. Every other class, if they miss a CC or especially two, it's game over and you lose the round (unless opponent also misses)

 

Sin has:

2 sec stun on 9s CD

3 sec stun on 24s CD

2 sec stun on 18s CD

3 sec daze on 18s CD

3 sec  daze on 18s CD (another)

 

please, this must be a joke if you compare it with other classes, let's take KFM as example.

 

2 sec stun 36s CD

3 sec stun 45s CD

2 sec daze 45s CD

2 sec daze 30s CD

 

there's 1 more stun / daze but they require enemy to hit you (in counter or resist) so they're not that reliable

 

And on top of that it's SIN who gets TWO escapes, with the main escape being the best in the game by far (free stealth even if enemy dodges it, unlike other classes, it's like summoner + melee daze escape in one)

 

But nvm sin players will never understand how it is to play with actual cooldowns as they're too spoiled already.

I get that low cds are strong. But against kfms it does not really carry you + if you miss a skill against kfms you usually loose stealth and im pretty sure kfms are favored when it comes to out of stealth neutral game and we cant use most of our low cd ccs out of stealth anyways. Most of what we get carried by against kfms is tab stealth, flower and x stealth. Remove some of those and kfms end up being favored against sins.

 

Have you played against zapish as a sin? Its fun. About 20% of the time you get carried by tab and x stealth, 10% of the time because he actually fails a thing or two, 5-10% of the time i actually end up outplaying him and the rest he wins. While against pretty much every other kfm i have no trouble against.

 

And yes missing skills in sin mirror is not that big of a deal. In other matchups you dont even have a reason to do so in the first place.

Edited by N3ro

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Me coming from MMOs with simpler combat systems like Silkroad, Rohan, 2Moons have come to enjoy the BnS combat system, but in all honestly our PVP is crap due to how unbalanced the classes are in PVP, ive said it many times and this is not the only game that has done it...but making 1 class counter another and so on is NOT balance, real balance is when every class is AT LEAST somewhat close to beating every other class. Yes, there is never a "perfect balance" but in BnS there is absolutely no balance even after they've tried revamping all the classes but its like they make one class a little more competitive but then make the already competitive class WAY stronger. I was watching some KR pvp videos with the new Lv 55 cap skills and warlocks were already pretty decent/good at pvp...now they can literally kill anyone in 1 aerial combo...keep in mind aerial combos are the one thing you can not escape by any means unless helped by others in 3v3 or 6v6 so that makes me wonder...do they not test skills widely before releasing them, like how can they get this so wrong? Sins being able to stay hidden for as long as they want with insane boosts under stealth...yes every class has skills to knock sins/sums out of stealth but how can we do that when sins get such and insane Evasion/Speed boost while theyre hidden? lol.

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Krissy   

dont forget to add the afk players who dont get banned for literally just afking all day in pvp. ive had the same person 3 times on my team once just afk in one day.

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Shuchin   

@ N3ro + Shiro

 

Even though I do not play on you two's level, I would like to reinforce what Shiro said. Both sin and KFM rely a lot on the 100-0 combo to win, and that's directly related to CC cool downs.

 

In low ranks I win against sins because they mess up their tech chases, but whenever I get a sin that reliably chases my F roll I am very likely to lose, simply because too many of my CCs are on cool down when I win the neutral game, but theirs aren't. You practically have to be superior in the neutral game without wasting more than one of 4, C or Z, which is really hard. :/

Edited by Shuchin

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This game's main problem with pvp is that there is no balance which we all know that but it seems the reason depends on the person. In my opinion if there are counter classes in a game there is no way you can establish a fair arena for 1v1 unless you are gonna make people fight against their own classes.

 

Also don't try to argue with sins about how broken their class is. They are like spoiled kids. Since the game's release they've been broken af. On the other hand force masters were op before 50 patch now they are literally outside of arena. Summoners too were nerfed to some degree. What i'm saying is that pretty much every class but sin got nerfed. I guess devs love sin.

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hwalien   

OP class, counter class... all that doesn't matter if you have no idea what you are doing. Class balance comes into play, only when your playing against someone who has about equal skill as you.

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Zedonia   

A game like BnS simply can never be balanced in PVP. The classes have too many skills and the main problem is the huge amount of CC some classes have. In PVP CC is the most important thing. Thats why FM is great in PVE but sucks in PVP, for example. There are classes who can block almost everything 24/7 and even stun you with every single block if timed correctly. Classes who cant do that are in a disadvantage from the beginning. It's not only blocking but the whole skill setups all classes have. Why do have some classes insane buffs and others not? Do they have less or no cc because of that? No of course not. WL is the best example because not only can he cc you more often than you have escapes, he can reset almost everything by himself. I dont see any balance in that. You can never balance such a game and people should stop saying that this game is anywhere near balanced in PVP no matter on low ranking or high ranking. And it's not only BnS. There will never be an game like this which will be balanced for PVP.

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Shuchin   

It's been over half a year since I first wrote about this, so maybe a good time to repeat my musings:  ^_^

 

Quite probably B&S is actually highly balanced for the purposes of average win statistics and overall success with any class, but by its very combat design this will never feel that way during any individual match.

 

In B&S you do not have immense HP pools that you slowly whittle down with 100 small attacks. Nor do you get lots of repeats with RNG heavy attacks so that with luck, even the technically best opponent can suffer defeat from a newbie. Instead, combat is fast paced, combo based, unforgiving towards mistakes and highly reliable concerning skill success.

 

Hence outcomes between two given people are usually unequivocal, reproducible and easily frustrating for the loser. At the same time, only this way you actually recognize how your own skill and knowledge decides the outcome, and have a basis to learn. Never ever in Aion PvP have I experienced something of the depth I have here in B&S. It is also the basis for a feeling of accomplishment that would not be possible with an RNG heavy system.

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