Ujarac

Don't try pvp

76 posts in this topic

I'll be honest this games pvp is probably the worst pvp I've ever played and is very unbalanced. Half the time you'll find yourself losing matches because of the dumbest things. I'll just say this to any that thinks they want to try pvp, DON'T DO IT, it's the most frustrating pvp and literally half the classes half stupif resists or some other OP crap that just makes it unfair in pvp. Probably have better chances at getting good in WoW or another mmos pvp but not this horrible pvp

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Actually _all_ classes have "stupid resists or some other OP crap", it's just that you have not figured your own class's yet so it feels so unbalanced.

 

The big problem is that B&S PvP is not easily accessible for beginners because it happens on a ladder that is 95% experienced players and only 5% newbies.

 

I recommend to PvP with friends and clan mates using the sparring fuction. It is big fun! =:3

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On 2/8/2017 at 4:24 AM, Ujarac said:

I'll be honest this games pvp is probably the worst pvp I've ever played and is very unbalanced. Half the time you'll find yourself losing matches because of the dumbest things. I'll just say this to any that thinks they want to try pvp, DON'T DO IT, it's the most frustrating pvp and literally half the classes half stupif resists or some other OP crap that just makes it unfair in pvp. Probably have better chances at getting good in WoW or another mmos pvp but not this horrible pvp

I agree, ive said it many times and regardless what a "pro pvp" player may say bns has a really good and fun combat system but the pvp has no balance at all...one class can hide 24/7 with increased movement speed, evasion and what not...how does that make sense? 

 

One class can attack / defebd and cc multiple times from range and close range while spamming heals and resists for itself and a pet that acts as another player basically...

 

Other classes can freely spin constantly making themselves immune to almost every cc while they reflect stuns back to the attacker...

 

Another class has like a million CCs and a skill they can spam that hits 6k or so per hit... lol

 

Overall i trully love the combat system in the game but the PVP balance is non-existant

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8 hours ago, DeadlyCode said:

I agree, ive said it many times and regardless what a "pro pvp" player may say bns has a really good and fun combat system but the pvp has no balance at all...one class can hide 24/7 with increased movement speed, evasion and what not...how does that make sense? 

 

One class can attack / defebd and cc multiple times from range and close range while spamming heals and resists for itself and a pet that acts as another player basically...

 

Other classes can freely spin constantly making themselves immune to almost every cc while they reflect stuns back to the attacker...

 

Another class has like a million CCs and a skill they can spam that hits 6k or so per hit... lol

 

Overall i trully love the combat system in the game but the PVP balance is non-existant

Balanced does not mean a new player can start the game and have 50:50 matchups with everything. There is tons of 'noob traps', that are easy to counter and so they actually are not that op..., but sure if you get hit by it / or hit into it you get punished harshly in most cases.

 

A lot of things are just knownledge based and dont even have anything to do with skill. A new player might think destro is the most redicolous thing on earth, because you 'can't react to charges', then he spins your tab escape, redbuffs and kills you in 3 seconds, but in reality charges are not that amazing as you can just spam q and it avoids them for you.

Spinning is the same bs. Sure, they can spin a lot and it makes them immune to a bunch of ccs. But i actually prefer them to just spam spins all day as then i dont have to worry about hitting into deflects, because i can time my skills with zero effort + pretty much every class can get threw spins.

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35 minutes ago, N3ro said:

Balanced does not mean a new player can start the game and have 50:50 matchups with everything. There is tons of 'noob traps', that are easy to counter and so they actually are not that op..., but sure if you get hit by it / or hit into it you get punished harshly in most cases.

 

A lot of things are just knownledge based and dont even have anything to do with skill. A new player might think destro is the most redicolous thing on earth, because you 'can't react to charges', then he spins your tab escape, redbuffs and kills you in 3 seconds, but in reality charges are not that amazing as you can just spam q and it avoids them for you.

Spinning is the same bs. Sure, they can spin a lot and it makes them immune to a bunch of ccs. But i actually prefer them to just spam spins all day as then i dont have to worry about hitting into deflects, because i can time my skills with zero effort + pretty much every class can get threw spins.

True, but the fact of the matter is stealth has no counter in this game. Which is why SIN is the most unbalanced class in game, with Warlock.

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45 minutes ago, Phytolacca said:

True, but the fact of the matter is stealth has no counter in this game. Which is why SIN is the most unbalanced class in game, with Warlock.

Sure it does, everything that disables or pierces defence ignores evade. And evade is not that relyable anyways, you DON'T play sin and expect to evade things, you cannot plan an evade, it's more like this extra thing where you might eventually f*ck up and win the lottery and it saves you. It's still garbage and should be removed though. You also can just not give them stealth in the first place, except x stealth opop. Sin also has its weaknesses. For instance our q is completely garbage, you can actually 'tech chase' our q and we cant do sh*t about it. Most other iframes are also pretty short. A lot of bms even manage to flock of blade me when i e into instant spinal tab (witch will be a non-issue in the future cause e gets buffed). Boltstep and 2f are easiely counterable. The class gets pretty demolished by fms frost orbs and by warlocks too. Then you have bd, des, sum witch all are not that easy to fight. And then we are down to being favored against bm, kfm and sf .. oh and sin ofc.

 

Its not perfectly balanced, but its far from having 'non existant balance', bugs are a bigger issue than balance imo.

Just to name a few:

- Tab swap bug in the opener

- Icebomb dsync and you cant 1 dash, or dsync in general

- 3 kd randomly gets unuseable, bm also has that issue a lot with flock of blades especially

- Close Shave bug

- People turning around while f rolling, a lot of the time i dont mind this as much as you can still walk after them for the tech chase... except you cannot move your mine an inch

- Your opponent is dead but he tab escapes your piledriver

- 1 dash not giving you stealth after tab swap sometimes, because you're 'too fast' or something

 

Then you have abusive bugs, like

- Destro 1 daze bug

- BMs cyclone bug

- Technically ss lightning stride would also count, but nobody complains about that because its a 'style' thing only for the most part and actually takes skill to use properly

 

Anyways i don't have too much of an issue with any of these, even though i don't really like to see destros bugging their 1 either. At least its 'controllable' and you know what happened, unlike other bugs that are just random bs you cant predict and nothing, it just randomly screws you over, because the game feels like it. It does not happen permanently, but its annoying if it does.

 

But even though those bugs and some ping spikes at times are an issue, i still enjoy the pvp in this game and its the only reason i play it at all... So it has to do something right.

Edited by N3ro
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1 hour ago, Phytolacca said:

True, but the fact of the matter is stealth has no counter in this game. Which is why SIN is the most unbalanced class in game, with Warlock.

This alone proves that you need more experience in pvp, since there is a ridiculous amount of moves that counter stealth.

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Well, my PvP experience as beginner was frustating too, seeing people with lower level killing you in a single stun/disable combo without reaction chance, 90% of my skills resists like I have 0 accuracy, my skill says it penetrates, cancels defensive skills and disable any defensive skills for some seconds but the guy keep blocking it with his sword...

 

I don't try PvP anymore, I mostly afk my daily duels.

 

I find PvP too hard to learn and when I was trying to learn a lot of people said that my class (FM) is one of the hardest and worst to PvP. Also I have 150ms ping so no point trying as they will always have class and ping advantages.

Edited by MrPuddles
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On 11. 2. 2017. at 4:31 PM, MrPuddles said:

I find PvP too hard to learn and when I was trying to learn a lot of people said that my class (FM) is one of the hardest and worst to PvP. Also I have 150ms ping so no point trying as they will always have class and ping advantages.

I concluded that pvp balance here is like a wheel. Forget FM now, play other top classes, or come back in 1-1.5 year, FM will then probably rock again.

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On 2/10/2017 at 0:18 AM, N3ro said:

Sure it does, everything that disables or pierces defence ignores evade. And evade is not that relyable anyways, you DON'T play sin and expect to evade things, you cannot plan an evade, it's more like this extra thing where you might eventually f*ck up and win the lottery and it saves you. It's still garbage and should be removed though. You also can just not give them stealth in the first place, except x stealth opop. Sin also has its weaknesses. For instance our q is completely garbage, you can actually 'tech chase' our q and we cant do sh*t about it. Most other iframes are also pretty short. A lot of bms even manage to flock of blade me when i e into instant spinal tab (witch will be a non-issue in the future cause e gets buffed). Boltstep and 2f are easiely counterable. The class gets pretty demolished by fms frost orbs and by warlocks too. Then you have bd, des, sum witch all are not that easy to fight. And then we are down to being favored against bm, kfm and sf .. oh and sin ofc.

 

Its not perfectly balanced, but its far from having 'non existant balance', bugs are a bigger issue than balance imo.

Just to name a few:

- Tab swap bug in the opener

- Icebomb dsync and you cant 1 dash, or dsync in general

- 3 kd randomly gets unuseable, bm also has that issue a lot with flock of blades especially

- Close Shave bug

- People turning around while f rolling, a lot of the time i dont mind this as much as you can still walk after them for the tech chase... except you cannot move your mine an inch

- Your opponent is dead but he tab escapes your piledriver

- 1 dash not giving you stealth after tab swap sometimes, because you're 'too fast' or something

 

Then you have abusive bugs, like

- Destro 1 daze bug

- BMs cyclone bug

- Technically ss lightning stride would also count, but nobody complains about that because its a 'style' thing only for the most part and actually takes skill to use properly

 

Anyways i don't have too much of an issue with any of these, even though i don't really like to see destros bugging their 1 either. At least its 'controllable' and you know what happened, unlike other bugs that are just random bs you cant predict and nothing, it just randomly screws you over, because the game feels like it. It does not happen permanently, but its annoying if it does.

 

But even though those bugs and some ping spikes at times are an issue, i still enjoy the pvp in this game and its the only reason i play it at all... So it has to do something right.

Evading isn't winning the lottery, you don't have a 50% chance to win a lottery lmao. It's more like a coin flip which is heavily in your favor. There isn't many skills to beat stealth at all. Not every class has a huge aoe to get through stealth and even if they did, it would have a huge cd like 30sec. also NO i will not count skills like leg sweep, or  skills that go in a line ahead of u 8m. Why? Because of desync. I don't think i need to explain what desync is and how it heavily favors sin in particular. Therefore if you evade which is an extremly high % to do so btw, you basically won. Yes a sin can beat you solely because of rng, how nice. I agree other classes have something bs or broken thats how bad this game has become. But I still believe stealth in this game is heavily op and broken, carrying sins

 

On 2/10/2017 at 1:32 AM, Jaylia said:

This alone proves that you need more experience in pvp, since there is a ridiculous amount of moves that counter stealth.

That alone proves you know nothing about what a counter is or are heavily biased towards sin. Refer to my reply to N3ro

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4 hours ago, Phytolacca said:

Evading isn't winning the lottery, you don't have a 50% chance to win a lottery lmao. It's more like a coin flip which is heavily in your favor. There isn't many skills to beat stealth at all. Not every class has a huge aoe to get through stealth and even if they did, it would have a huge cd like 30sec. also NO i will not count skills like leg sweep, or  skills that go in a line ahead of u 8m. Why? Because of desync. I don't think i need to explain what desync is and how it heavily favors sin in particular. Therefore if you evade which is an extremly high % to do so btw, you basically won. Yes a sin can beat you solely because of rng, how nice. I agree other classes have something bs or broken thats how bad this game has become. But I still believe stealth in this game is heavily op and broken, carrying sins

Dude, i know that you don´t have 50% chance to win the lottery. That´s more an expression i just used to basically emphasise that as a sin YOU CANNOT RELY ON EVADES! If you do so you´re playing horrible. And besides it´s not a 50% chance, but rather a +50% to our evasion modifier witch does not equal 50% chance, it´s more like 30%, but i do not know exactly. Your base evasion stat in arena is not zero, if it where zero +50% would do nothing, witch is how it should be but it´s not. Yes, i know there are no evades without an raised evade modifier, that´s because usually your accuracy stat is good enough to midigate the evade chance entierly, but once we add +50% it no longer is. But i don´t know the exact formular maybe i should look it up, but to me this would not really chance how i play so i don´t really care. Even if it where 50% chance how does this make me favored to win the coin flip...lul

 

Also desync in most of my game is an absolute non issue. You know i´m a sin myself and there is also such a thing as sin mirror and i pretty constantly hit my lightning strides, shadow slashes and lightning rods.

 

This is one of the only games i ever uploaded in my life, so i´ll just post this again. I hit two snipes in a row, one got evaded (too bad this does not proove my 30% evade chance, but oh well small sample size) then i missed one shadow slash. And i also missed one lightning rod, though the lighting rod i didn´t really plan to do, but was forced to duo to an earlier mistake. Should have just sst towards him into rod to make it faster and less dodgeable, but i wanted to keep ss for in case i miss it, since he still would have had his 4-7 seconds stealth or so from x stealth if i did that.

 

And the vid is called like that btw, because the other guy complained after the game about my evades, even though i had zero evades. Though he was just mad, because he wanted to push for diamond.

 

 

 

I could upload plenty of games where i snipe plenty of sins plenty more times than here, but i´d have to search it in hour long recordings that are somewhere on my hdd and i have absolutely no intention of doing so just to proove you it´s possible if you´re not terrible.

Edited by N3ro
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On 8.2.2017 at 10:24 AM, Ujarac said:

I'll be honest this games pvp is probably the worst pvp I've ever played and is very unbalanced. Half the time you'll find yourself losing matches because of the dumbest things. I'll just say this to any that thinks they want to try pvp, DON'T DO IT, it's the most frustrating pvp and literally half the classes half stupif resists or some other OP crap that just makes it unfair in pvp. Probably have better chances at getting good in WoW or another mmos pvp but not this horrible pvp

BnS PvP is far away from being horrible.

And seeing how frustrating it can get shows how competitive it really is and that you need to know how to play your class in order to succeed in higher elo (1800+).

As said before, there are classes have more and less iframes and some skills that are just mean when used right. The way i see it you are just a person that hasnt gotten to know his class and probably lost hundreds of times but that doesnt mean this games PvP system sucks.

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20 hours ago, TwoPunchMan092 said:

The way i see it you are just a person that hasnt gotten to know his class and probably lost hundreds of times but that doesnt mean this games PvP system sucks.

In that case he have 100% right. Game must have simplest possible ruleset and be easy to learn, hard to master. If any game does not fulfill this simple requirements then just sukcs.

 

To prove it:

  • Starcraft
  • Quake
  • Counter Strike
  • League of Legends
  • Dota
  • Poker
  • Chess
  • Football / Soccer
  • Basketball
  • Volleyball
  • Tennis
  • Golf

All this games are highly recognizable. Do even single of them is hard to learn? Do even single of them is not highly competitive? Yes, that's rhetorical questions. Can you post even single good game that is highly competitive and hard to learn? That is also rhetorical question. But that is what B&S represents - annoying, complicated, unintuitive and hard to learn combat system. And if that is not enough, completly broken PvP balance.

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16 minutes ago, Ezzz said:

All this games are highly recognizable. Do even single of them is hard to learn? Do even single of them is not highly competitive? Yes, that's rhetorical questions.

No, it is not rhetorical as far as i see it. I would say that from what of those games i played the next ones are harder to get in to than BNS:
Starcraft
League of Legends
Dota
Chess


I don't count regular sports as i never played those.

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14 minutes ago, SadFace said:

No, it is not rhetorical as far as i see it. I would say that from what of those games i played the next ones are harder to get in to than BNS:
Starcraft
League of Legends
Dota
Chess


I don't count regular sports as i never played those.

And what is hard in this games to learn? For example Chess, you have 6 figures:

  • The king moves exactly one square horizontally, vertically, or diagonally. A special move with the king known as castling is allowed only once per player, per game (see below).
  • A rook moves any number of vacant squares in a horizontal or vertical direction. It also is moved when castling.
  • A bishop moves any number of vacant squares in any diagonal direction.
  • The queen moves any number of vacant squares in a horizontal, vertical, or diagonal direction.
  • A knight moves to the nearest square not on the same rank, file, or diagonal. (This can be thought of as moving two squares horizontally then one square vertically, or moving one square horizontally then two squares vertically—i.e. in an "L" pattern.) The knight is not blocked by other pieces: it jumps to the new location.
  • Pawns have the most complex rules of movement:
  • A pawn moves straight forward one square, if that square is vacant. If it has not yet moved, a pawn also has the option of moving two squares straight forward, provided both squares are vacant. Pawns cannot move backwards.
  • Pawns are the only pieces that capture differently from how they move. A pawn can capture an enemy piece on either of the two squares diagonally in front of the pawn (but cannot move to those squares if they are vacant).

 

+ Castling, promotion rules and win/lose/draw condition. It is all chess ruleset. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_chess

 

What is hard? It is barely over a dozen points of rules for entire game.

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14 minutes ago, Ezzz said:

What is hard? It is barely over a dozen points of rules for entire game.

Well, and what is so hard in BNS?
You just go to arena, press some buttons - bang! you win!
It is much simpler and fun to read your skills in bns and come up with some ideas on how to use them, than to learn complete ruleset for chess and then learn some more meta on basic tactics before you even have a chance to win.

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58 minutes ago, SadFace said:

Well, and what is so hard in BNS?
You just go to arena, press some buttons - bang! you win!
It is much simpler and fun to read your skills in bns and come up with some ideas on how to use them, than to learn complete ruleset for chess and then learn some more meta on basic tactics before you even have a chance to win.

In B&S:

  • You have have 9 classes (6 figures in Chess)
    • Each class have multiple skills
      • Each skill have features like:
        • power (need to know how it work with stats)
        • stats modiffers (like incrased accuracy)
        • range
        • animation speed
        • range of effect
        • aditional effects like:
          • iframes
          • armor
            • direction
            • area of this armor
          • buffs
          • stealth
          • guard
          • guard break
          • CC
          • etc.
        • coold down
      • Each skills connect with some other skills, need no know all the possible combos
      • Skills may work differently under centrain condition, need to know what skill under what condition
      • Ech skill have own upgrade what change conditions
    • Each class have own stats values
  • A lot of characters states
    • CC (many types)
    • Skills animations
    • on the ground, in the air
    • etc.
  • Character stats (I have no evn idea how many) and how relation to other stats, skills and characters states
  • Game controll system

Expand it now to each case and you have really fat book of the game rule set. And that is before we start talk about tactics. But if you start tactics without know all of this, you are doing it wrong - you play randomly. Or, mechanically repeat other people's strategies. Anyway, that is play without understanding what you actually doing.

 

 

And now back to Chess - your argument is after know game rules. Knowing strategies is different phase - that is actually mastering the game, not learn the rules. And that is what I say - The game must be easy to learn but hard to mastery.

Edited by Ezzz
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Then you picket the wrong genre. Fighting games are aways hard to get good enough to be comfortable enough to actually enjoy the game. Tell us what you would have done drastically different? If you remove like 50 mechanics the game will become boring.

 

And cool that you think lol is easy. Yeah easy rules click things on your screen and kill some buildings, except thats the same as saying bns has easy rules just kill your opponent. The two trillion different chars lol has + items that you need to pick within a few seconds sure guarantee that you have to learn a ton before actually being able to play the game properly.

Edited by N3ro
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Peoples complain about BNS arena cause for NA/EU ,the game wasn't advertised as such pvp game. Most pvpers knew beforehand  how it was gonna be,back then, as they played on other region servers so they had a solid base and were aware of how frustrating it would be to learn different classes.

 

The issue nowaday, is that new players aren't aware of all that. They don't know the basic bns pvp ropes. Their own skill. Their skill trees ,even hm skills and how to even acquire them. This naturally creates alot of issues especially when facing other classes that completely overpowered them with  raw damage pve build (lul).

 

The BNS learning curve is pretty high in term of pvp and even pve to a certain point(talking about max efficiency of a class in pve) Of course,alot will also complain about certain classes being "easier". Well,guess what,suck it up and you'll eventually improve enough to beat said easy class. Regardless,you can't exactly faceroll your way to the top anyway so you'll have to step it up on any class.

 

 

Unless you're a warlock  ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Edited by Hinu
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3 hours ago, Ezzz said:

And now back to Chess - your argument is after know game rules. Knowing strategies is different phase - that is actually mastering the game, not learn the rules.

Well talking about rules - you have only one rule in bns: kill or be killed.
I would say - it is simple enough :) 

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This game is pure trash for pvp

Only pve is fine, except for destroyer noob dps

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I win = Best game

I lose = worst game

 

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This topic is great...

 

Chess is easy ... OK buddy.

 

So tell me why is 1. f3 the worst opening move possible?

Or why has 1. h4 never been used in a competitive match?

 

And these are just simple things you can Google

 

Comparing BnS to chess is a GREAT example... now go beat a Grandmaster LOL

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"I had a poor experience in something therefore its a terrible one and nobody should bother with it either "

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