Why I don't think Blade and Soul is pay2win.

[Koter]

Pay2win? No. Pay to progress faster? Yes.

 

 

[Syanonn]

Pay2DressUpWaifu

[Koter]

4 hours ago, Syanonn said:

Pay2DressUpWaifu

lol

[TeGeek]

yh Bns aint p2w since at the end every1 will have the same gear. the only thing is that people that pay with real money will get that gear much faster. So the only diffrence paying real money is the amount of time needed to gear max gear.

[Koter]

7 minutes ago, TeGeek said:

yh Bns aint p2w since at the end every1 will have the same gear. the only thing is that people that pay with real money will get that gear much faster. So the only diffrence paying real money is the amount of time needed to gear max gear.

Exactly TeGeek! That's what people don't seem to understand, but as soon as NCWest comes out with an RNG box event everyone is like omg pay2win pay2win! Problem is there's nothing pay2win about it.

[MGT]

Pay to win is the use of real money to attain an item faster than the general farming method.

 

Farming can take months to even years for super rare 1 (or limited) items that might exist in the whole game.

wipping out that credit card is instant gratification + also get you geared a LOT faster in the process.

 

whether it all the same in the end, you are still buying the advantage over others so yes you are paying to win regardless of what MMO you are talking about.

 

Also with RnG boxes ONLY containing gems NOT attainable any other way this also denotes "pay to win"

 

Have you seen the new gem combine?

ALL those 5-10 AP gems to fuse to make something a lil better?

 

How else are you going to get those gems?

 

Pay to win.

[TeGeek]

6 minutes ago, Koter said:

Exactly TeGeek! That's what people don't seem to understand, but as soon as NCWest comes out with an RNG box event everyone is like omg pay2win pay2win! Problem is there's nothing pay2win about it.

not even the rng boxes or reset stones could be considered as p2w since you can get them from ingame gold > hm coin exchange. even tho it might be limited in purches. but this is only because the Hongmoon store IS the only way for NcWest to support themself financial when it comes to Bns since it free2play.

[TeGeek]

2 minutes ago, MGT said:

Pay to win is the use of real money to attain an item faster than the general farming method.

 

Farming can take months to even years for super rare 1 (or limited) items that might exist in the whole game.

wipping out that credit card is instant gratification + also get you geared a LOT faster in the process.

 

whether it all the same in the end, you are still buying the advantage over others so yes you are paying to win regardless of what MMO you are talking about.

 

Also with RnG boxes ONLY containing gems NOT attainable any other way this also denotes "pay to win"

 

Have you seen the new gem combine?

ALL those 5-10 AP gems to fuse to make something a lil better?

 

How else are you going to get those gems?

 

Pay to win.

Pay 2 win according to me is when you can use real life moneys to obtain stuff that is better than what you can from normal ways ingame. which is not possible in bns. what you can buy from hongmoon store are items obtainable with normal ways ingame and then there are costumes.

[Shukran]

i cannot and dont want to spend time to achieve a certain thing in game, hence if there is someone who can is clearly p2w.

 

u cannot fight that concept. even if u prove and explain it

[Zuf]

And you're wrong.

[KzE]

47 minutes ago, TeGeek said:

not even the rng boxes or reset stones could be considered as p2w since you can get them from ingame gold > hm coin exchange. even tho it might be limited in purches. but this is only because the Hongmoon store IS the only way for NcWest to support themself financial when it comes to Bns since it free2play.

HM Coin X-change is ncoin transaction, so buyer need to pay.

[Khaen]

1 hour ago, MGT said:

Pay to win is the use of real money to attain an item faster than the general farming method.

 

Farming can take months to even years for super rare 1 (or limited) items that might exist in the whole game.

wipping out that credit card is instant gratification + also get you geared a LOT faster in the process.

 

whether it all the same in the end, you are still buying the advantage over others so yes you are paying to win regardless of what MMO you are talking about.

 

Also with RnG boxes ONLY containing gems NOT attainable any other way this also denotes "pay to win"

 

Have you seen the new gem combine?

ALL those 5-10 AP gems to fuse to make something a lil better?

 

How else are you going to get those gems?

 

Pay to win.

Spot on.

 

I find it amusing that people are so defensive over being labelled pay to win.

 

Sure, Hongmoon coins are obtainable for non-paying players, and while that does even out the field a bit, there is a major difference that separates the hongmoon store and the ncoin store. That difference being a "purchase limit".

 

No matter how much gold you sell ingame, there is always a limit to the quantity of items you can purchase from the hongmoon store per day. Meanwhile a wallet warrior can simply swipe their credit card and have unlimited amounts. RNG boxes are RNG, but it becomes more definite when you have unlimited boxes to open. And so Treasure Trove keys, cold storage reruns.. the list will only continue to grow.

 

Regarding the "Pay to Progress" argument, if anything, its really "Pay to Skip", if any labels need to be created for the sake of labeling. The only content that fall in this category are the emblems and brilliant keys. The food buffs speeds it up a bit but the player is still grinding and doing work to achieve stuff in game. Paying to Skip allows lazy and people with no time to completely skip game content; which also bring up the question of whats the point of playing and what are they going to do once the maximum is reached.

[TeGeek]

50 minutes ago, KzE said:

HM Coin X-change is ncoin transaction, so buyer need to pay.

yh the one buying needs ncoins for the gold yh. but the one putting up the gold doesnt. which is the way people that dont wanna spend real moneys can use

[Xazinos]

1 hour ago, MGT said:

Pay to win is the use of real money to attain an item faster than the general farming method.

 

Farming can take months to even years for super rare 1 (or limited) items that might exist in the whole game.

wipping out that credit card is instant gratification + also get you geared a LOT faster in the process.

 

whether it all the same in the end, you are still buying the advantage over others so yes you are paying to win regardless of what MMO you are talking about.

 

Also with RnG boxes ONLY containing gems NOT attainable any other way this also denotes "pay to win"

 

Have you seen the new gem combine?

ALL those 5-10 AP gems to fuse to make something a lil better?

 

How else are you going to get those gems?

 

Pay to win.

Some people have long working hour job, they don't have time to grind. So instead of grinding it on virtual world, they technically can consider as grind in real life for money instead of gold currency in game. Then exchange or convert real life money to game currency/items to speed up the process. Both cash user or free player, you both still need to put time into some place (game or real life). One(free user) is putting time in game grinding dungeon and farming, one(cash user) is putting time in real life earning money and get the RNG box or whatever to help them speed up the process. To me, Pay2Win is when premium user or cash user have access to items or equipment that free player can't have access or can't obtain those items/equipment. Those are Pay2Win, because without paying, free player will not be able to compete with cash user at all.  But this game, as long as you put your time into it, it might be months or years. Eventually, even free user will ended up the same spot or same gears as cash user. And this game is F2P, they will need a way to earn money and keep their server up. The company have people behind the dark working and getting pay in salary. If no one is spending money into the game, i wonder how long will the game last. The company will need to make profit to pay their staff and so on. That's whole another issue on financial side of story. 

[KhaosThanathan]

To quote myself from another thread:

 

"Pay 2 Progress" in BnS actually is "Pay 2 Win" for following reasons: "Normal" players get locked out of content and aren't able to progress any further:

1. On one hand, it's the communities fault, because of exaggerated AP-requirements. Players have to do heroic dungeons (at least Yeti, Necro and Frozen Fang) to earn money and Frozen Stingers. Running BSH or BSC all the time is not rewarding considering the exaggerated prices for old upgrade-materials (6 Gold for MTS is just nuts). That way, "casual" and/or "normal" and/or new players are not able to progress, because they neither earn money by doing dailies nor do they get their upgrade-materials.
2. On the other hand, it's the systems fault. Nowadays, you even won't get loot in SSP even if you have good gear. That's because of bad channel-management and because there simply are too many "cashers" and "no-lifers" with over-gear, so that monsters like Grindtooth simply drop too fast, resulting in no loot for casual/normal/new players. They won't get moonstones, thus they're unable to progress.

So yeah... Looks like Pay 2 Win for me.

[Tupac Shakur]

Well that is your opinion guys and I respect that, but I still stand by mine; Pay to Progress is still Pay to Win.

[Koter]

Well it's obvious from this thread that everyone has their own definition of what pay2win means lol. I first started hearing about pay2win from FPS games where players could purchase supply crates with real $$$ and these crates had a chance to give you overpowered weapons or items that couldn't be earned anywhere in the game.

 

To me that would be pay2win because these weapons impact the game in a negative way and makes it so that you're topping the leader boards not because of your skill but because you whipped out your credit card and bought the best weapons/gear in the game. To me that's pay2win because you pay to get really overpowered items and then you win not because of your skill but because of your wallet :) pay2win boys!

 

But I respect everyone's opinion and it is what it is. At the end of the day, let's just call it what it is a CASH GRAB! :P)

[Shukran]

so at the end of day, regardless if it is or not pay to win,

what are you going to do?

 

are u going to deal with it?

are u going to qui the game?

 

once you have voiced out your concern, what did u got?

[Tsuchiryu]

ITT: People thinking 'pay 2 progress = pay 2 win' don't know what they are talking about.

 

That's as much respect as these opinions deserve from me.

4 hours ago, Shukran said:

i cannot and dont want to spend time to achieve a certain thing in game, hence if there is someone who can is clearly p2w.

 

u cannot fight that concept. even if u prove and explain it

Wrong. If you want to spend money instead of time to achieve something, it's pay 2 progress. When spending money is your only alternative and spending time won't let you achieve anything equivalent to it, THEN it is pay 2 win. BnS doesn't have any of the latter, hence, it's not P2W.

 

That's not so much fighting that concept as it is pointing out that some of you do not truly know what it actually implies. And the 'pay 2 progress = pay 2 win' crowd such as you generally don't, so yeah...

[Zuf]

ITT: People thinking 'pay 2 progress ≠ pay 2 win' don't know what they are talking about.

[Zuf]

Just now, Tsuchiryu said:

GG having it backwards, as to be expected.

GG whiteknighting those scummy practices, as to be expected.

[Tsuchiryu]

1 minute ago, Zuf said:

ITT: People thinking 'pay 2 progress ≠ pay 2 win' don't know what they are talking about.

GG having it backwards without an actual argument, as to be expected.

[Katsapliakos]

Well yesterday with 537ap i coudnt get boar boxes couse they were ppl allready with legenderies around the time i went to do my mining,tell me how can i win

the ppl with legenderies?If thats not p2w i dont know what is.

 

How about the owpvp there at capture in ssp and the other faction attacking our Mining so we cant complete any quest?That means we get stuck in our Progress and others with higher ap just win,get all the quests done,the mats.

 

In the new 6vs6 battleground i guess its not p2w if u get matched against ppl with legenderies allready that rek you,i can win against them right?I wanna know how.

 

PS:Dont give me the crap that i can buy items with gold from dailies.Buy what first?Buy soulstones,buy moonstones,buy stingers,buy tablets?Pay the fees?Couse after a while the amount of items you need increase exponentially.

[Rokusan]

Before, I decided not to post and to keep my opinions regarding this issue to myself. I would wait and see how NCSoft would unfold their plans while keeping an open mind. I think now is a good time to make up my mind and what I can say is........

 

.............is that it has indeed become pay2win.

 

For those arguing that it's not and that it's only pay2win, I get your point. And you guys are right in a sense but the mere fact that open world PvP and whirlwind valley exist in this game where stats are not equalized really does make it pay2win. Anyone who has joined whirlwind valley just to be 2-shotted by a 600+AP destroyer can attest to this.

 

You can't look at this sort of issue as a one-dimensional linear...."thing" lol............ you have to look at the game as a whole, dissect the components and then form an opinion. If there was no PvP and only PvE existed in this game, I would agree that it's only pay2progress or pay2skip.

[Tsuchiryu]

2 minutes ago, Zuf said:

GG whiteknighting those scummy practices, as to be expected.

Not whiteknighting, just pointing out how inconsistent your arguments are. Also to be expect from this playerbase sometimes.

 

I have my fair share of reasons to not like some NCsoft's practices and decisions, but what you people often like to call PW2 generally isn't of them, mostly because most of these things don't actually turn out to be P2W. bEcause of this, it's a term just as devoid of meaning as whiteknighting is becoming. You people love to resort to these terms without having an actually strong case for them.