NCSOFT Please Add Attack Power Restrictions To Dungeons.

[Pepperino]

Another funny story that just happened. Doing Lab with my BM again. This other BM HM3 with Siren only has 388 attack. Party wipe while I'm still alive and they tell me to leave because my attack is low. I'm using True Profane with 377.

What?

Summoner with over 450ap joined and started talking about AP and crap. Goes in, dies, and complains that melee can't keep aggro off him and that we all have low dps/ap. Doesn't even know how to keep aggro on cat/ himself while dpsing.

I honestly don't understand anymore.

[Tsuchiryu]

When I say AP is just a part of success, it's one thing. It's something else entirely when it's used as a crutch it to blame others for their own incompetence at handling their class. High AP with lack of experience and skill is hardly any better than AP below what's usually required.

 

Again, AP is just a part of what can make a run successful. Without knowing the way dungeons/bosses work and how to handle a class in each and every scenario, AP alone isn't as helpful as some genuinely elitist people would hope. Not dying is important too. Even I, with my True Profane, know how important the latter can be. :P

[Lord Vertigo]

On ‎3‎/‎8‎/‎2016 at 4:21 AM, LastMagus said:

I almost couldn't believe my eyes when I read the title, then I read the post and well.. no offence but you're so off on things.

 

1. Just because some ppl know more than others it doesn't give them the right to do shit over others. Game is free so anyone can play to the best of their abilities and they are allowed to have whatever personality they developed so far in life. It is frustrating when you play with people that don't know how to do stuff and maybe don't even want to put in the effort to learn but that still doesn't mean anyone should be favored and core changes to the game should be made for the 1% that actually know mechanics. This whole idea is just ...

 

2. When ppl flame noobs and dismiss them you can be damned sure those noobs will return the favor and this should never change, and to address the matter of noobs asking for tips and such in dungeons after being called in so many ways in so many different languages, I guarantee you no more than 10 players actually took their time to explain something however easy or difficult it may be. So why should anyone show respect for smug SOBs ?

 

3.In regards to the new dungeon which is not at all that difficult when talking about mechanics it is a bit more demanding of gear. I can't stress the a bit more demanding  part enough considering the crappy gear me and my group had when I first did it. For those that need 400-500-600 ap to do it well... either they want to do it fast which I can understand either they're just not that all that knowledgeable about certain character and mobs stats. If it took only 420+ ap to do it, more than 80% of the server wouldn't have been able to, considering how many have upgraded their items only after the release of the dungeon.

 

4. To be a bit harsh, if you don't like their ap just gtfo of the party and find another one, not everyone is so smug and some ppl don't mind helping others so why shouldn't they have the choice to do that if they wish to ?

 

The only intervention needs to happen here is from the player base and not ncsoft. Read 2-3 lines of text on the forums or on google or watch 2 mins on youtube before you go in or if not before, at least after you fail 10 times in a row. Accept that not everyone would put in the effort to help so you need to help yourself more often then not. But again, dungeons are about mechanics. If you have one party member with 430 ap you can do more than just fine is someone is at 380, stop confusing huge gold income and high ap with skill and knowledge. High ap is just gold income and rng not game knowledge. There is nothing required by upgrade paths that needs skill to obtain.

 

On a personal note, the past 3 days have been fails after fails in both lab and even regular old poh with people that can't block first boss or fall down when flying towards the second one. Hey, stuff happens. I was also clueless the first time I entered a new dungeon and not everyone can pick things up at the same rate as others, I get it, I don't like it.. it makes me sad but you can't ask for devs to "remove" less skilled people from the game. As far as the lab goes, all the side bosses are a joke and fall insanely fast. The first boss is not rocket science.. anyone can tank him and dodge one or 2 more dangerous attacks. The clown where i'm sure a lot of people struggle is also easy but some people make it more complicated than it has to be, some want the summoner to tank all the ads others bomb the boss with the wrong color etc. It's a 6man for a reason - to make it easy for you. Just put 3 ppl on the ads and watch the damn color let the others know when bomb is up and happy days. Last boss too similar to widows to even talk about it. The biggest issue I often have in lab after the people that don't know mechanics is people with classes that can tank who say they will tank and they do a *cricket* poor job. If you have threat skills and don't use them or u just can't keep aggro or aren't sure if you can't keep aggro... just say that from the beginning because there's no point in wasting anyone's time getting there only to fail and recruit others >? almost no one will join u at the last boss when they clearly know u failed it at least once.  Just so ppl understand this a bit better, because I know how bitchy some get about "tanking", I'm not saying that every melee class has to tank, I'm just saying that you should let people know if you really can. If you can't, you can't and that's that. I've seen summoners and destroyers refusing to tank but dishing out great dps in dungeons and I'm fine with that as long as everyone knows from the start what the others are capable of doing.

 

Oops we have a kid who don't understand what being carried means.. sorry kid back when you understand that NO ONE GIVES A *cricket* FOR MMO COMMUNITYS.

 

I TRIED MYSELF MANY MANY TIMES TO TEACH PEOPLE, SHOW THEM SHIT AND W/E IT FINISHED WITH : GET LOST PRICK YOU KNOW SHIT.

 

PROBLEM IS MENTALITY OF PEOPLE WHERE EVERYONE IS TAUGHT THAT THEY R THE BEST, THE CHAMPIONS, ENTIRE GENERATIONS.

 

SORRY BE IT IN GAME OR IRL, CHAMPIONS R ONLY THE FEW. AND THEREFORE U CAN FOLLOW THE CHAMPION BUT NEVER REPLACE HIM.

 

PERIOD

Also what most of you don't understand is few simple things:

1. No one will carry you.

2. For people who said don't press lfg, what about when you have to replace party mem inside when u have to press lfg, due to not being able to invite inside? I know using brain is a bit of hard job nowadays.

3. This thread I believe was made to try to change stupid mentality you people have. Op even said how much time you need from lvl 1 to true siren... its 2 bloody weeks. If u cant

farm for 2 weeks and then start enjoying the game to true extend, instead of "you elitists scum I want to be carried but I wont to work for my shit" you don't have a mentality and

a passion that is also REQUIRED to play game properly, you should uninstall.

4. This is endless circle and will cont on and on until people start using their brain again, which not going to happen I know, but then how about actually start thinking for yourself

and if u decide to come online, at least follow OP steps on how to be decent person, decent gamer and so on.

[dmoe33]

Add weapon restriction Apwr restriction is stupid cause apwr isnt the sole thing that determines ur usefulness in dungs weapon requirement will somewhat limit the low apwr ppl joining end game dungs. Or u know add vote kick feature. This is only an issue with pug runs. If u dont like ppl with low att pwr joining and costantly have to leave em do a custom pt? its not that hard all u gotta say is ex apwr440+ then ppl join if they dont have that u kick if they do great. Whats the worst is elitism im talking thing ppl who want 480+ for yeti, u dont need 480+ for yeti sure its nice to have but u can clear jus fine in the 450ish range. Ive done a pt where we cleared with lowest AP was 412 rest were like 430 464 (me) 440 and 1 was 505 others were in the 430-460 range and still we cleared just fine

[Evechan]

I kick every profane player tryind do the new purples dungeon, 350P and want to do the news purple dungeon ? what a bad joke, get a job, gear up, noob.

[Oxygen]

@DreadX

 

Regarding your original post,sorry,I don't agree with you.

You were once a lowbie with lower gear..You surely sometimes found hospitable people who had patience on you and didn't try to insult you or anything on first try as long as you showed positive attitude but moreover,they tried helping you and guiding you through your first try. 

 

If its not possible to get dungeon done with some lowbie in it because,not enough damage and you state out this reason,80% of time this lowbie will choose to leave because,they will feel like a burden and thats if you show positive attitude at first place..In worst cases,you can ask them politely to leave because,its not possible to get dungeon done at all with them in party as the last member.

 

However,your initial post is against good teamwork and good gaming spirit..Real gamers are positive and patient not elitist,not rude!

Real gamers don't have to be pros but they need to have positive attitude and be good teamworkers in order to cope better in dungeons.

I don't mind if you ask the ones being a burden politely to leave the dungeon because,they are hurting whole party.

However,I do strongly disagree that you are making an excuse for elitists to bash new or lower geared players harder for being burden sometimes because,simply,no one has the right to hurt others feelings by cursing/bullying them for such a petty reason like game.Remember,those other people are playing to relax and have fun just like how you are playing the game to have fun and relax (or so I believe?).

 

Remember,if elitists and rude players keep bashing lower ones,the probability of those lower ones to leave game gets far higher..Reason:rude community..Then those rude people are the same ones who complain about game being dead later on and blame NCsoft for it..

Painful truth those rude players are the ones hurting the game..They are basically killing the game then complaining that its dead..Hmph,the irony! :)

[Lord Vertigo]

5 minutes ago, Oxygen said:

@DreadX

 

Regarding your original post,sorry,I don't agree with you.

You were once a lowbie with lower gear..You surely sometimes found hospitable people who had patience on you and didn't try to insult you or anything on first try as long as you showed positive attitude but moreover,they tried helping you and guiding you through your first try. 

 

If its not possible to get dungeon done with some lowbie in it because,not enough damage and you state out this reason,80% of time this lowbie will choose to leave because,they will feel like a burden and thats if you show positive attitude at first place..In worst cases,you can ask them politely to leave because,its not possible to get dungeon done at all with them in party as the last member.

 

However,your initial post is against good teamwork and good gaming spirit..Real gamers are positive and patient not elitist,not rude!

Real gamers don't have to be pros but they need to have positive attitude and be good teamworkers in order to cope better in dungeons.

I don't mind if you ask the ones being a burden politely to leave the dungeon because,they are hurting whole party.

However,I do strongly disagree that you are making an excuse for elitists to bash new or lower geared players harder for being burden sometimes because,simply,no one has the right to hurt others feelings by cursing/bullying them for such a petty reason like game.Remember,those other people are playing to relax and have fun just like how you are playing the game to have fun and relax (or so I believe?).

 

Remember,if elitists and rude players keep bashing lower ones,the probability of those lower ones to leave game gets far higher..Reason:rude community..Then those rude people are the same ones who complain about game being dead later on and blame NCsoft for it..

Painful truth those rude players are the ones hurting the game..They are basically killing the game then complaining that its dead..Hmph,the irony! :)

Lel the guy said it self how you should respect people and be polite to them, then even after that explained thing about passion and stuff. Guess people cant read, but nevertheless

dreadx has a point that is factual, as you can see that amount of people agreeing is at least 2x bigger then those that don't on entire thread.

 

Like I don't see how people manage to fail to understand simple thing as: no one going to bash you if u were doing things that you can start --> finish.

Having a true profane or EVEN LOWER in things like lab is ridiculous and people will have to change their mentality about game, stop being lazy and work for their gear before

they join top dungeons.

 

Hell I yesterday even saw true profaners in skypetal plains doing faction quests... guess how much damage they r doing, then when they don't get loot  due to no damage

they start bitching at everyone else how its their mistake, ncsoft sux and so on.

 

Also who ever post that "I am that but I don't this" is simple one of those who wants to be carried.

[Oxygen]

@Lord Vertigo

I read the original post. :)

I am not justifying the action of overly lower geared people to join lower dungeons.I am just saying that people shouldn't be very rude to them like that

When you were lower geared,you must have fallen in same mistake to join a dungeon higher than your gear to test.

You simply ask them politely to leave if you can't do dungeon well at this rate but not bash them..They are humans like you and they have the right to be respected just like how you have the right to be respected..

 

In the original post,I noticed the OP indirectly defended the action of elitists or encouraged it in someway.

I say,if you want game to live then be one of the patient people who welcome lower new players instead of bashing them and there I wasn't talking about lazy people either..I am talking about lower geared people who are actually trying to help and do something about the dungeon..Speaking of lazy people,there are lazy higher geared people who don't care to do their full proper dps rotation since their gear will make up for the damage difference anyway,never noticed those?

Why don't these get blamed for lower overall dps as well?or do people feel scared of these to call them noobs so they prey on the lower geared ones instead?

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinion after all and that's just my opinion so there is no dispute.

[LonefoxSwe]

Another problem is the fact that you outlevel yout gear to fast due to the speed you level.
The levelingspeed in this game is INSANE.
Faster then any other game I've encountered.
No wonder people are undergeared.

"But we don't like to grind" No? What are you doing? Grinding for gear?
"It's no fun if it takes to long to level" But it's more fun to be stuck with old content just because you can't get enough gold to progress?

Just look at the speed you level compared to how slow you level crafting, and the cost of that? Oh my.

The BIGGEST problem IMO is that you outlevel everything way to fast in this game....

[HungryTaro]

I'm just a little cricket who will be stuck with his profane weapon forever *tear* 

Well in 2 days, since I finally had enough mats to make my stones and all, but crafting time takes forever.... 

 

But yeh, not everyone will have the luxury to upgrade their gears (even more if they can't play 24/7) plus mats cost just skyrocketed.

 

Even if they reach the AP requirement.. it also won't do shit if they don't know what the *cricket* they are doing. Even more if you actually have a member who might load slower than the rest. But if you want a fast run, I'd suggest to just hand pick the people rather than doing cross-server since you'll most likely get atleast 1 person who has never been in the instance before/low geared but I'm not gonna say anything about it since, you pushed the "random" group button. 

[Lunakitty]

On 8.3.2016 at 1:20 PM, Tracmar said:

I am not sure what is the point of spamming "dailies" if you do not use the gold received to upgrade your weapon/accessories ? The whole upgrade option is available , you know what you need and you all know how to get it . The fact that you are lazy to do it means you are not worried about how you perform in a group instance and if thats the case please restrict yourself to running solo content without crippling other people's gameplay. 

The reason might be the overly expensive items. You need TONS of gold later on to get upgraded and it is really slow for some people especially if they don't have much time to play. Not everyone is lucky with drops that sell with high price.

 

I don't myself like people who come to do Blackram for example with 250 AP but with 6-man party it still doesn't take more than 30-40 mins and tops 60 minutes. The dungeon still gets finished. What I really hate is those snobby high lvl, high equip people who leave party after joining because the team is not idealistic to them wasting the time of those who want to get items to upgrade their gears. There are always two sides to this. Ungeared wasting time of those maxed out players and maxed out players wasting time of the ungeared.

 

Also gear does not mean you are good and will fight. I have seen people with 450 AP leeching in dungeons doing nothing. It's not only the ungeared people we carry in dungeons.

[Tracmar]

4 man Frost Fang with 3 summoners and 1 FM ( poor me) 

None of these 3 summoners know how to spec their cat for taunt, and they keep blaming me for dying .. as I had the agro from the boss the whole time .. 

All of them above 490 AP ... so yea I stress again .. AP matters to a certain degree but being dumb about their own class can ruin the runs for even if you have 1000AP 

 

[Lunakitty]

2 minutes ago, Tracmar said:

4 man Frost Fang with 3 summoners and 1 FM ( poor me) 

None of these 3 summoners know how to spec their cat for taunt, and they keep blaming me for dying .. as I had the agro from the boss the whole time .. 

All of them above 490 AP ... so yea I stress again .. AP matters to a certain degree but being dumb about their own class can ruin the runs for even if you have 1000AP 

 

Moral of the story: It is too easy to blame others without thinking if the flaw was withing themselves. Mirror is a good tool.

[Tracmar]

I totally agree about the cost of the items but getting to around 380 can be done without too much stress and gold and play time . If an individual has less time to play, it would make more sense for him/her to focus on the dailies that would allow them to get enough gold in as short time as possible and then get into dungeons that would mostly require a  decent amount of time to be completed if the groups are not geared/experienced enough 

 

I understand that with the new content coming in quick , everyone wants to do the latest content as soon as possible but skipping over lower stuff in favor of the newer tougher content will affect most players on the long run because their AP and stats are not high enough to survive the mobs even in the new contents being released 

 

PS : I am not trying to be elitist here , since I pug almost 99% of my runs, the sort of experience I have had is not a good one. Also if possible , I always vouch to keep the low AP individuals in the groups and try to assist them in getting the runs completed and/or let them know how they can get their AP / damage up . You will be surprised to know how many people are out there who don't know much about these things 

[Lunakitty]

I totally agree with you Tracmar. I waited until 350 AP before even trying to join Blackram Supply Chain and haven't even bothered with Naryu Labyrinth now that I have 380 AP. But as the market prices are getting higher and higher I don't see myself doing the elite dungeons any time soon. Won't be dreaming doing the new three heroic dungeons before summer. 7-8 gold for the Moonwater transformation stone plus upgrade cost itself and also soulstones makes it really expensive for those who fail utterly in pvp.

[Tracmar]

The recent inflation will settle down soon enough because everyone wants to get their gears maxed , simple supply demand phenomenon. 

When more and more people out there outgrow their need for moon water trans. stones ,the prices are going to drop a lot . So can either save up enough soul stones to craft them , spam BW on weekends to get the brilliant chest (20 soul stones) . 

 

Currently the soul stones are around 26s i think , and 5.5g for moon water trans. stones 

Before the update, the SS were 10s and 3-3.5g for the stones . 

[Lunakitty]

Depends on server purely. In the server where I play Moonwater Transfomation Stones are 7g or above and Soulstones are 40s each. Hard to get good AP as new player.

[Tsuchiryu]

For basic story progression, I can assure you True Profane and Awakened Infernal accessories are good enough for what has been released so far (we haven't got all chapters of Act IV yet, there's 4 or 5 yet to be released in NA/EU). Then again, I did also get a 25 AP Diamond for my weapon, plus got Windwalk to stage 3. Both things cost a lot but aren't exactly consumables, so they are good investment anyway.

 

Frankly, I'm a bit more worried on an immediate level about soul shield sets. Heard the Scorpio one is the current best now... no idea if we hae to deal with enrage timers in Awakened Necropolis or something. For now I'm settling for a mix of purple Bloodshade and Supply Chain pieces. At lvl 49 atm, almost 50k HP and close to 400 AP. I know it isn't good enough for some of the Heroic quests.

[lnvisibleOne]

1 hour ago, Tsuchiryu said:

For basic story progression, I can assure you True Profane and Awakened Infernal accessories are good enough for what has been released so far (we haven't got all chapters of Act IV yet, there's 4 or 5 yet to be released in NA/EU). Then again, I did also get a 25 AP Diamond for my weapon, plus got Windwalk to stage 3. Both things cost a lot but aren't exactly consumables, so they are good investment anyway.

 

Frankly, I'm a bit more worried on an immediate level about soul shield sets. Heard the Scorpio one is the current best now... no idea if we hae to deal with enrage timers in Awakened Necropolis or something. For now I'm settling for a mix of purple Bloodshade and Supply Chain pieces. At lvl 49 atm, almost 50k HP and close to 400 AP. I know it isn't good enough for some of the Heroic quests.

Full yeti. The days where people should be picking HP bloat over offensive stats has passed. Scorp has a bunch of unnecessary hp and not as much crit/acc/pierce as yeti. 

[Tsuchiryu]

3 minutes ago, lnvisibleOne said:

Full yeti. The days where people should be picking HP bloat over offensive stats has passed. Scorp has a bunch of unnecessary hp and not as much crit/acc/pierce as yeti. 

Yeah, I remember people in chat mentioning the Yeti set too. Still need an answer for the enrage timer bit, though, to know if either of these new Heroic dungeons are friendlier to low AP people, as well as what does or doesn't qualify as low AP in these new dungeons.

 

Or, alternatively, go for Labyrinth/Mushin set instead. Heard some saying the new sets aren't as good as these two...

[lnvisibleOne]

27 minutes ago, Tsuchiryu said:

Yeah, I remember people in chat mentioning the Yeti set too. Still need an answer for the enrage timer bit, though, to know if either of these new Heroic dungeons are friendlier to low AP people, as well as what does or doesn't qualify as low AP in these new dungeons.

 

Or, alternatively, go for Labyrinth/Mushin set instead. Heard some saying the new sets aren't as good as these two...

Just like in 45 cap, these new dungeons don't need the insane ap requirements people seem to think they do. Knowing your class and knowing the fight (=much higher dps uptime) far outweighs higher ap on your stat screen. So yes they do have enrage timers but you don't need almost 500 ap to run them. I will say 400 is a bit on the low end though, but as long as your crit rate/crit damage is good you should be fine. 

[Tsuchiryu]

9 minutes ago, lnvisibleOne said:

Just like in 45 cap, these new dungeons don't need the insane ap requirements people seem to think they do. Knowing your class and knowing the fight (=much higher dps uptime) far outweighs higher ap on your stat screen. So yes they do have enrage timers but you don't need almost 500 ap to run them. I will say 400 is a bit on the low end though, but as long as your crit rate/crit damage is good you should be fine. 

That's the thing, though. I currently have a mix of Bloodshade/Supply Chain soul shield pieces (need #8 for full Bloodshade set), plus True Profane weapon (with 25 AP Diamond, at least) and Awakened Infernal accessories (only my ring is at Awakened Siren), all at stage 10. That leaves me with exactly 40 AP, 1k crit damage and... don't remember crit number exactly, but i used to be at almost 40% at 45, it 'dropped' to 35% at lvl 49 (I know the % is relative to enemies at my lvl or something along these lines).

 

I know from experience these values are enough for Frostscale Basin 24-man (and now for Labyrinth, I hope), but not for Grand Harvest dailies (the bosses, at least, which are at least as bad as Blackwyrm in terms of FPS drop, btw), which is why I'm wary of these 3 new Heroic dungeons. I'm trying to avoid a scenario like when I tried to do Bloodshade for the first time: several wipes for taking a while getting used to Thrasher's howl, eggs and vents mechanics, so I did some effort of reading guides to avoid too many headaches due to inexperience. I'm just checking if I really need to delay doing these dungeons due to not good enough gear too like I did with Labyrinth.

[MMLink]

The answer I give; don't run with randoms. If you don't want someone in your party that you think isn't up to it, then don't do a random party in the first place.

 

Team up with clanmates and friends. Don't have any clanmates and/or friends? Well, tough titties for you, then.

[Kaal]

Yeah... I knew that restrictions to parties are gonna come eventually to Western release. But hoped that it will come with the release of damage meter. Now it's kinda pointless when you don't really know who and how much contributes to the  damage pool.

[Nilkemios]

And this is why dungeons should be soloable, or there should be other options to upgrading your gear besides running them.