Why you quit?

[vita]

10 hours ago, DomiSotto said:

I've seen Blade Dancers doing an absolutely fantastic job with Cold Storage, and in the SSP for tanking bosses that need to be cc'd. I've seen Destroyers do that as well, but I have never really seen a good KFM tank in action.

 

It's not a trinity game, but it seems to suffer the same 'no good tanks' syndrome as the trinity ones. Only it's probably worse, because it seems at least to me that they do not build the threat/hold aggro well & on the WL at least I do not see a viable way to drop agro when needed. An, seeing how badly the tanks are treated in some crucial content for functioning as tanks, it's, again, worse than the trinity...

Sadly most KFM/BM in NA doesn't tank or doesn't even know how to do it, I always tell my friends any KFM/BM that doesn't tank is pretty much useless to the party, you are better off bringing a class that can do better DPS than them. I have quit BnS NA to play in BnS TW, I played a KFM there and I tank every single dungeon except the current hardest dungeon in TW. Sadly I did not record any video of those dungeon runs, if not you will be able to see how easy it is for DPS to do their stuff when they get a proper tank.

 

The difference between tanking in BnS and other MMO is that the tank in BnS do not have provoke/taunt skill for instant agro, we tank by building up threat using threat increasing skill and DPS. That's why a range that go full out before a tank can start their rotation will pull agro, because the tank haven't generate enough threat and damage yet. It's also why if a tank loses agro it's harder to get back especially if the player that got agro kept kitting the boss around. I guess the other reason players that play KFM/BM doesn't like to tank is because DPS never give them the time to build agro, they just go ham at the start. If I see that happen when playing KFM I would just stand there and afk and let the boss chase the DPS.

[LadyGamerluv]

11 minutes ago, vita said:

Sadly most KFM/BM in NA doesn't tank or doesn't even know how to do it, I always tell my friends any KFM/BM that doesn't tank is pretty much useless to the party, you are better off bringing a class that can do better DPS than them. I have quit BnS NA to play in BnS TW, I played a KFM there and I tank every single dungeon except the current hardest dungeon in TW. Sadly I did not record any video of those dungeon runs, if not you will be able to see how easy it is for DPS to do their stuff when they get a proper tank.

 

The difference between tanking in BnS and other MMO is that the tank in BnS do not have provoke/taunt skill for instant agro, we tank by building up threat using threat increasing skill and DPS. That's why a range that go full out before a tank can start their rotation will pull agro, because the tank haven't generate enough threat and damage yet. It's also why if a tank loses agro it's harder to get back especially if the player that got agro kept kitting the boss around. I guess the other reason players that play KFM/BM doesn't like to tank is because DPS never give them the time to build agro, they just go ham at the start. If I see that happen when playing KFM I would just stand there and afk and let the boss chase the DPS.

Yeah I play as an FM and when I pug I always end up tanking and I hate it. I definitely wait like to 99% or so before I start pew pewing. If i notice i would keep getting aggro i would unfortunately back off the dps, which is no good either.

 

Right now, I'm in a really nice guild with the leader being a BM with like 650+AP and I'm only 556. So it is really nice to do runs with him and pew pew and never ever take aggro. He is really Pro. Being around nice people, like a guild, will help u to want to stay playing the game.

[okitaluc]

Most of the content can be cleared without KFM and BMs , so if you are in a party that doesn't have one you don't play the game? (i have been in many parties without one) or should kick the kfm/bm if  the party have more than one? Stop this crap please, only "baddies" complain about tanks in this game.

 

Oh better bring someone with better dps (kinda depressing hear it, like skills and staying alive doesn't count at all) , ok let's all play FM why choose another class? seriously people like this  is what ruin the game for everyone. 

[vita]

6 minutes ago, okitaluc said:

Most of the content can be cleared without KFM and BMs , so if you are in a party that doesn't have one you don't play the game? (i have been in many parties without one) or should kick the kfm/bm if  the party have more than one? Stop this crap please, only "baddies" complain about tanks in this game.

Oh better bring someone with better dps (kinda depressing hear it, like skills and staying alive doesn't count at all) , ok let's all play FM why choose another class? seriously people like this  is what ruin the game for everyone. 

Future content would require a tank, or at least someone that can hold constant agro and keep boss in proper position. An agro switch or cat tanking would be bad and simply mess things up. Can a FM tank it, sure, as long as they don't kite the boss around the room, stay in 1 position and avoid getting hit while keeping constant agro on the boss.

 

There is nothing depressing about bringing better DPS, someone who play KFM/BM but not willing to tank is not playing their class to their fullest, then why play that class. The fun in those class is in being able to tank and use the full potential of the class. 

[Lunakitty]

2 minutes ago, vita said:

Future content would require a tank, or at least someone that can hold constant agro and keep boss in proper position. An agro switch or cat tanking would be bad and simply mess things up. Can a FM tank it, sure, as long as they don't kite the boss around the room, stay in 1 position and avoid getting hit while keeping constant agro on the boss.

 

There is nothing depressing about bringing better DPS, someone who play KFM/BM but not willing to tank is not playing their class to their fullest, then why play that class. The fun in those class is in being able to tank and use the full potential of the class. 

Tell me about it. But this applies to every single class. It makes me cringe to see BDs *cricket*ing up in easy dungeons or using low DPS skills even after they get 600+ AP as I main BD pretty darn good in pve content if I can be a bit full of myself. XD

[okitaluc]

23 minutes ago, vita said:

Future content would require a tank, or at least someone that can hold constant agro and keep boss in proper position. An agro switch or cat tanking would be bad and simply mess things up. Can a FM tank it, sure, as long as they don't kite the boss around the room, stay in 1 position and avoid getting hit while keeping constant agro on the boss.

 

There is nothing depressing about bringing better DPS, someone who play KFM/BM but not willing to tank is not playing their class to their fullest, then why play that class. The fun in those class is in being able to tank and use the full potential of the class. 

When future content arrive  we will see , right now dedicated tank is not needed. Each person should decide themselves what is fun for them , not you, not me. So yeah i don't agree with you. And this kind of attitude ruins the game for others IMHO.

[vita]

1 hour ago, okitaluc said:

When future content arrive  we will see , right now dedicated tank is not needed. Each person should decide themselves what is fun for them , not you, not me. So yeah i don't agree with you. And this kind of attitude ruins the game for others IMHO.

The future content is not that far off.

 

What attitude, that I expect players that to actually know the class they are playing is ruining the game for them? I could say the same that they are ruining the game for me because they do not learn to play their class. If you find the class fun, then learn to play it properly, know what your class can do, simple as that.

[Hanadeus]

Craft time High like 24 hours srsly? ok i make alts for it,

the upgrading cost after 45 are all high, ok i will make gold slowly and get them

 

Ping So High FPS Drops af, Delay Freeze, and Speed Hacking bots steal my potato in SSP, 

 

Ping Problem is Biggest problem  getting 300-500 is not Good, if they dont fix it soon i will quit just like the Rest of the Players

[Grimoir]

2 hours ago, vita said:

The future content is not that far off.

 

What attitude, that I expect players that to actually know the class they are playing is ruining the game for them? I could say the same that they are ruining the game for me because they do not learn to play their class. If you find the class fun, then learn to play it properly, know what your class can do, simple as that.

I think what he means is that you should ask a KFM / BD to tank if they do not want to, regardless if those are tanking classes, they shouldnt do what they dont ant. Everyone has their own definition of fun when playing a class, if its fun for you to do the tanking etc then good for you, but dont expect others to feel that way too.

[vita]

12 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

I think what he means is that you should ask a KFM / BD to tank if they do not want to, regardless if those are tanking classes, they shouldnt do what they dont ant. Everyone has their own definition of fun when playing a class, if its fun for you to do the tanking etc then good for you, but dont expect others to feel that way too.

Yes I know what he means, I am just answering the point where he said that my kind of attitude ruins the game for others, where my point is that the same attitude where I play the class because I find it fun but I do not care to play the class role itself will ruin it for others as well. It's goes both way.

[Ziggy Nils]

A bit OT but I'm just talking here. Mostly based on personal experience with MMOs and my own opinion.

 

@Grimoir @okitaluc I agree with both of you on that. I play classes I like to play with builds that are more comfortable for my style of play without harming a party setup. The thing that bothers me most about all MMOs, is there are alway players that tell you how you should build your class or what you should use it for. The more I play a class, the more I learn about it and I build it to compensate my strengths and minimize my flaws. Long story short, I have never liked cookie cutter builds, rotations, or class expectations. It almost always ruins my dps and/or tanking ability.  Granted this would be different, if it was something like WoW where you need a tank, you need a healer, and a few dps. Haven't ran into anything yet in BnS that really required that kind of setup.

 

@vita I have to agree and disagree on some of that. While playing a BM/KFM is fun for some or most, because some that do not do what is expected of them doesn't necessarily mean that they aren't playing the class to it's fullest or ruining the the fun for a group every time. If you are running randoms, you have no idea what you are getting even if everyone is playing the role that is expected, it can still fail due to poor execution, inexperience with a fight/dungeon, and/or other factors. I have a BM myself(first class I made) and know it pretty well but it doesn't mean I want to tank and/or don't know how to. For the few dungeons I do tackle when I feel like it, I almost always end up tanking. Not because someone told me to, I'm just able to grab threat without haven't single gem or skill in threat generation. Lucky I guess haha. Only time I've screwed up is when an occasional fps drop happens and missed the queue. For the most part, wanted to play a class that uses a sword its just a shame that most see it as nothing more than a glorified tank that can do some dps, but it's not needed, just tank.

[Kohashi]

I didnt quit yet but if i would quit over something is over how NCwest is carrying themselves over and the decisions they make. all games have bugs all have bots and whatnot but it all comes down to what decisions publishers do to improve and keep their playerbase.

[Grimoir]

3 minutes ago, Kohashi said:

I didnt quit yet but if i would quit over something is over how NCwest is carrying themselves over and the decisions they make. all games have bugs all have bots and whatnot but it all comes down to what decisions publishers do to improve and keep their playerbase.

While this is true, it also works the other way aswel, some of the issues players created themselves.

Also, players have a bit too high expectations, they come up with suggestions and expect with a fingersnap for it to be implemented while in the real world, the process to get something chnged takes a while.

 

I think so far NCsoft did a good job on combating bots / spammers and hackers, i mean if you recall the chaos there was with spammers a few months ago, now its much much better.

[Kohashi]

12 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

While this is true, it also works the other way aswel, some of the issues players created themselves.

Also, players have a bit too high expectations, they come up with suggestions and expect with a fingersnap for it to be implemented while in the real world, the process to get something chnged takes a while.

 

I think so far NCsoft did a good job on combating bots / spammers and hackers, i mean if you recall the chaos there was with spammers a few months ago, now its much much better.

true. i think they dont understand the limits of a publisher but I am not talking about these things, I am talking about decisions they make which influences the direction the game is taking, They already butchered this game in many areas but that's past already.. im more interested in what decisions they do for the future.

 

For now it seems kind of mixed some good and some very bad.

[Grimoir]

4 minutes ago, Kohashi said:

true. i think they dont understand the limits of a publisher but I am not talking about these things I talk about decision they make which influences the direction the game is taking, They already butchered this game in many areas but that's past already.. im more interested in what decisions they do for the future.

 

For now it seems kind of mixed some good and some very bad.

Can you give some examples on the butchered things? o.o

[StellaNoxFleuret]

I wonder why nobody mention that they removed every possible way to upgrade any other weapon or acces path and made us extremly unable to choose our gear sets?...

And that they removed extrem much story content and still not fixed alot critical bugs?...

[Kohashi]

Just now, Grimoir said:

Can you give some examples on the butchered things? o.o

Specific for NC west

 

story line in many places

main story voice overs

game immersion- lack of NPC voice for most of them.

optimization - down the drain

 

this is from top of my head

[Kohashi]

Just now, Grimoir said:

Oooh....honestly never bothered on the story and the character voices.

 

Optimization.....well idk i do agree its terribly optimized, then again when i had to play on my crappy laptop with interl i5 2.5GHz, Mobile Radeon HD6650 and 8GB Ram i never went below 25-30 FPS in SSP with a lot of players around, so i do believe that part of it is game related but i also think half of it is hardware related at the players end.

 

 

while to some extent i would agree but i did play this game before and it feels very heavy and clunky and it's like a dying grasping for air. Try playing CN or KR client if you ever get the chance... it's a huge difference.

 

The localization messed up a lot of things apparently

[Grimoir]

1 minute ago, Kohashi said:

Specific for NC west

 

story line in many places

main story voice overs

game immersion- lack of NPC voice for most of them.

optimization - down the drain

 

this is from top of my head

Oooh....honestly never bothered on the story and the character voices.

 

Optimization.....well idk i do agree its terribly optimized, then again when i had to play on my crappy laptop with interl i5 2.5GHz, Mobile Radeon HD6650 and 8GB Ram i never went below 25-30 FPS in SSP with a lot of players around, so i do believe that part of it is game related but i also think half of it is hardware related at the players end.

 

 

[DomiSotto]

On Tuesday, July 12, 2016 at 8:53 PM, vita said:

The difference between tanking in BnS and other MMO is that the tank in BnS do not have provoke/taunt skill for instant agro, we tank by building up threat using threat increasing skill and DPS. That's why a range that go full out before a tank can start their rotation will pull agro, because the tank haven't generate enough threat and damage yet. It's also why if a tank loses agro it's harder to get back especially if the player that got agro kept kitting the boss around. I guess the other reason players that play KFM/BM doesn't like to tank is because DPS never give them the time to build agro, they just go ham at the start. If I see that happen when playing KFM I would just stand there and afk and let the boss chase the DPS.

In the only other game I've played, a trinity game, the tanks (depending on class) did have the taunts/AoE taunts and build threat via rotation, generating threat. The tank of course was always set on the op frames as such, they always pulled and they used taunts to get agro back if one of us had an opening burst that managed to get agro.

 

I've been trying to do my 'one-one-thousand, two-one-thousand' count-down before jumping in, and in particular when I do the LFG and the low AP cuts off is not established.

 

Overall though, I find myself wistfully thinking back to the trinity times, and to healing (I know a lot of people despise heal-botting, but I loved it) . I understand why the BnS does things differently, because I have seen the problems the trinity game faces in regards to the tanks, as I have mentioned, but imo it just did not go far enough in rebuilding its battles/balancing the classes/reducing the difficulty of the 6Ms to make any group to be able to do 6Ms.

 

I also understand that the 24M were intended as the entry-level dungeons instead of 6M, but that design fails in NA/EU due to our pressing needs for rewards and how badly 24M reward us and how long they are. It is an artifact of the marriage between the Korean system where you pay by the hour but get tons of stuff, and our system where you can play as much as you like, but get paltry rewards for all but the hardest content.

 

All and all, I would love the NA/EU version of the game to start taking into account out unique circumstances, and one of the first items on the list would be the 24M areas to be revised to become fast, fun, easy and rewarding.

 

Another issue would be the incentives to tank or making tanking easier on at least one class in terms of taunts. In the game I've played, one of the 3 possible tanks was the sort of that had the 'rotation, what rotation?' It would be nice if one of the classes gets a skill tree that makes it a default tank no matter what that 700 AP FM is unleashing.

 

As much as I want to heal, I think they actually did off-heals on the classes in a decent way, as much as I grind my teeth every time I see people dropping health on the op bars and can't do nothing about it.

[Lexter]

Well, one FM grab me across arena (40-50m, maybe more distance) and hitting me with 5 hits per seconds and i was constantly in ice now. This was last drop. Maybe i'm bad, but this was not normal. Not worth more words about other shit. I have just one set of nerves.