cat tank nerfed

[AmbivalentCat]

14 minutes ago, Yuhuan said:

I seriously still don't understand why people are complaining about this cat tank nerf. They said they are going to fix it so shut up. And another thing would it really be so bad if your cat couldn't hold aggro? If you get the aggro then that means you are just like every other player. Congratulations welcome to the world of melee. And even if your cat can't hold aggro I don't understand why you complain when you basically have another stronger you attaching the enemy as well. I'm not a summoner but a BM and I have played a summoner so I know the experience. Some people don't even fight with their cat and some people who do aren't complaining like this. Posting over and over on this stupid topic really won't help them speed up the process you act like its the end of the world if your cat can't tank for a few days - a week. How about you stop hitting when you see you've gained aggro and let your cat get it back. You act like your cat is you. 

 

We can sit there staring at the boss for days, and a lot of the time it still won't re-aggro onto the cat. So sure, really helps for us to stop DPSing and let the boss kill us instead. Even when taunt does work, it works for maybe a few seconds and then the boss is right back on us.

 

If there were actually a lot of competent player tanks in this game, summoners wouldn't feel like this is such a necessary skill. But out of like a hundred cross-server dungeon runs, I have met a total of two tanks (no, not exaggerating - literally two) that could actually hold aggro, and maybe 3-4 more that actually attempted to hold aggro (and lost it as soon as Sunflower spam started). The rest didn't hold aggro as soon as I hit the boss. We're literally the tanks in most cross server dungeons, not always because we want to be, but because it's better than wiping because real tanks can't do their job.

 

Maybe it'll take a few days. Maybe it'll take a week. Maybe it'll take longer, because they're not giving us an ETA, and in the meanwhile our cat is broken for PvE. If you don't like people complaining about their class being broken, you could...I dunno, stop reading the threads? Seems like the logical thing to do if it bothers you that much.

[Rhokdelar180]

11 minutes ago, Yuhuan said:

I seriously still don't understand why people are complaining about this cat tank nerf. They said they are going to fix it so shut up. And another thing would it really be so bad if your cat couldn't hold aggro? If you get the aggro then that means you are just like every other player. Congratulations welcome to the world of melee. And even if your cat can't hold aggro I don't understand why you complain when you basically have another stronger you attaching the enemy as well. I'm not a summoner but a BM and I have played a summoner so I know the experience. Some people don't even fight with their cat and some people who do aren't complaining like this. Posting over and over on this stupid topic really won't help them speed up the process you act like its the end of the world if your cat can't tank for a few days - a week. How about you stop hitting when you see you've gained aggro and let your cat get it back. You act like your cat is you. 

 

You clearly said your a BM and played a summoner which I am very sure not for long.  Players choose to play range and not a melee thats why they choose a range class.  A cat is an extension of the summoner class and what makes a summoner a summoner.  Our pet allows us to control the battlefield for us to do good damage. 

 

1st) You clearly just came here to spam on this topic

2nd) You do not know what the bug is about cause if you do you would not have said "How about you stop hitting when you see you've gained aggro and let your cat get it back."

3rd) You do not understand the class to understand that the cat is part of the Summoner class and without it the summoner itself is limited with skills to use to play its role.

[KattFallon]

^ People actually enter an dungeon and expect us summoners to tank so yea ..... 

 

I submitted a ticket yesterday, they have advised me that indeed the Summoner is bugged and they will be patching it in future update.

[Rhokdelar180]

9 hours ago, AuraLove said:

Some bosses have abilities that cannot be taunted from. Like the Chef in E.Fleet she does her swishy blades all over on people randomly. The first mini boss in The 45 monkey dungeon. the one who spawns two animals. He also does an all over attack bouncing on people. I saw Poh brought up. I think she does the same. I have seem times where I have aggro, but she shoot some other direction or throws those napalm bombs at others randomly.

 

Edited to fix Money to Monkey >.>

 

I have been leveling a summoner to solo with and heal/tank when I do party. Hope I am not to late to do that lol my summoner is only level 34

At early dungeons your party will love your cat cause most players are unsure how to tank the bosses and thats where your cats comes in.  As of now just becareful when taunting the boss as you might get the aggro easily.

[Mesmerize]

I have already even been labeled as "useless summoner" in skittering tunnels when people rush in aggroing 3211352315 spiders expecting me to make my cat jump in and taunt them all just for their surprise of finding themselves dead in a blink while i kite and sunflower them lol.

[Piper]

13 hours ago, deadmesa said:

QQ SM has to actually try now instead of watching their cat do everything. Lol, please

 

The cat IS the summoner. It's part of their toolkit. People who talk about a cat and a summoner being two separate things have absolutely no idea how characters work in an MMO. This part of a summoner's toolkit not working properly is the same as an assassin's stealth not functioning or an FM's freeze. That being said, not even the worst summoner just stands around watching their cat crouch.

 

There really should be a prerequisite for knowing the fundamentals on how an MMO works before posting.

 

 

[OZGlitch]

Anyone who thinks a summoner is the same as having two players is *cricket*ing retarded.

[Yancha]

On 2/12/2016 at 4:20 AM, Ango said:

You might want to read my post again, because I never said the class was no longer useful. I was talking about a hypothetical scenario in which the summoner actually does get nerfed to the extend people currently want it to get nerfed.

No person actually wants it to go far enough that the class is useless

 

Thats a fear mongering strawman attempt and a bad one Its old, overused, and annoying. Stop it

 

Now about the PvE affecting PvP balance

 

You havnt replied to that piece of fear mongering either

[Yuhuan]

1 hour ago, AmbivalentCat said:

 

We can sit there staring at the boss for days, and a lot of the time it still won't re-aggro onto the cat. So sure, really helps for us to stop DPSing and let the boss kill us instead. Even when taunt does work, it works for maybe a few seconds and then the boss is right back on us.

 

If there were actually a lot of competent player tanks in this game, summoners wouldn't feel like this is such a necessary skill. But out of like a hundred cross-server dungeon runs, I have met a total of two tanks (no, not exaggerating - literally two) that could actually hold aggro, and maybe 3-4 more that actually attempted to hold aggro (and lost it as soon as Sunflower spam started). The rest didn't hold aggro as soon as I hit the boss. We're literally the tanks in most cross server dungeons, not always because we want to be, but because it's better than wiping because real tanks can't do their job.

 

Maybe it'll take a few days. Maybe it'll take a week. Maybe it'll take longer, because they're not giving us an ETA, and in the meanwhile our cat is broken for PvE. If you don't like people complaining about their class being broken, you could...I dunno, stop reading the threads? Seems like the logical thing to do if it bothers you that much.

Honey your attempt to make me feel bad is amusing. All I was saying is that since the. Summoners lost their aggro for the cat they should stop complaining because they are just like every other player when they gain aggro. And what I meant by stop doing DPS was that you let your cat DPS instead of you. Do you understand now? And just because you had a bad experience with players means pure shit to everyone else. Just because you had to tank doesn't mean every other "tank" in the game is bad. And it's really not you its your cat. 

[AmbivalentCat]

Just now, Yuhuan said:

Honey your attempt to make me feel bad is amusing. All I was saying is that since the. Summoners lost their aggro for the cat they should stop complaining because they are just like every other player when they gain aggro. And what I meant by stop doing DPS was that you let your cat DPS instead of you. Do you understand now? And just because you had a bad experience with players means pure shit to everyone else. Just because you had to tank doesn't mean every other "tank" in the game is bad. And it's really not you its your cat. 

 

My intention wasn't to make you feel bad. And yes, I've met tanks that are good, but not many of those tanks use cross-server matching. Personally, I ALWAYS give tanks a chance when I instance match, and if they keep aggro after my first few sunflower crits, I don't taunt ever. It's good for them to get practice if they're remotely decent to begin with (i.e. have any necessary aggro talents that KFMs or BMs use). I'd prefer for them to tank, honestly, and I'm leveling a KFM that I hope to be able to tank on when I hit dungeons.

 

Problem is, most can't hold aggro. Literally an auto-attack in, it's mine. And yes, other classes can steal aggro, but we don't have as many escapes as they do, so it's a lot harder to kite a boss and not die than it is on other classes. It's better to use the cat in scenarios like that so we don't wipe. I would much rather have tanks that actually tanked, but the truth is most either don't want to or don't try.

 

Open world parties are usually a different story, and I am profoundly glad about that. I prefer going dps mode on my cat in parties.

[Chnmmr]

Only thing I'm noticing is that the cat needs an extra couple of seconds to secure aggro before I start attacking.

[Yuhuan]

1 hour ago, Rhokdelar180 said:

 

You clearly said your a BM and played a summoner which I am very sure not for long.  Players choose to play range and not a melee thats why they choose a range class.  A cat is an extension of the summoner class and what makes a summoner a summoner.  Our pet allows us to control the battlefield for us to do good damage. 

 

1st) You clearly just came here to spam on this topic

2nd) You do not know what the bug is about cause if you do you would not have said "How about you stop hitting when you see you've gained aggro and let your cat get it back."

3rd) You do not understand the class to understand that the cat is part of the Summoner class and without it the summoner itself is limited with skills to use to play its role.

Honestly your right not for long. On this account. My friend plays a summoner and she's told me about her experiences. Because wait, I think I leveled with her? Yeah I did!

 

1.) I think I know damn well what I'm talking about and being a BM has nothing to do with it. 

 

2.) I'm pretty sure EVERYONE has heard about the bug by now and they said they are FIXING it. 

 

3.) let me quote again, "My friend plays a summoner" actually no my sister plays a summoner. And the cat is your DPS, you don't think I understand that but I do. Her cat hits way way WAY more than her. And I didn't come here to spam. so. That point was invalid. 

[Ango]

8 minutes ago, Yancha said:

No person actually wants it to go far enough that the class is useless

 

Thats a fear mongering strawman attempt and a bad one Its old, overused, and annoying. Stop it

 

Now about the PvE affecting PvP balance

 

You havnt replied to that piece of fear mongering either

I didn't bother to reply, because you quoted me without bothering to read and understand my post. Why argue with somebody who's whole argument is based around something you never actually said? It's pointless.

 

Now, fearmongering strawman attempts:

I see you still couldn't be bothered to read my original post, because if you had, you would have realised, that I was 1. being sarcastic and 2. simply addressing the annoying 'summoners deserve every nerf imaginable' posts to be found on every single page of this thread. I pointed out that the moment NCSoft went ahead and implemented all the changes people claim they want them to make about summoners, we'd have a completely useless class on our hands - which would cause them to cry all over again.

No strawmen or fearmongering.

 

As for pvp and pve balance:

All I really I said about that was that you can't balance one (pvp) without considering the effect it might have on the other (pve) or you might end up breaking an entire class in the process. 

[Rhokdelar180]

1 minute ago, Yuhuan said:

Honestly your right not for long. On this account. My friend plays a summoner and she's told me about her experiences. Because wait, I think I leveled with her? Yeah I did!

 

1.) I think I know damn well what I'm talking about and being a BM has nothing to do with it. 

 

2.) I'm pretty sure EVERYONE has heard about the bug by now and they said they are FIXING it. 

 

3.) let me quote again, "My friend plays a summoner" actually no my sister plays a summoner. And the cat is your DPS, you don't think I understand that but I do. Her cat hits way way WAY more than her. And I didn't come here to spam. so. That point was invalid. 

Her cat hits harder than her? You got to be kidding right.  You let alone admitted you did not play a summoner far enough but even said you leveled with her clearly shows enough.  I have been playing a summoner on other servers for 1 year+ now.  You just coming here and saying " Oh my friends say this so its has to be this".  When you say that the CAT is dps clearly shows you have no idea what your talking about and just trying to prove your point.  You could argue your way through to new players but I can see clearly you have no idea what your talking about. 

 

PS: Please keep trying to prove your point because as of right now all I see is "Empty vessel makes the most noise".

[Bcl]

1 minute ago, Rhokdelar180 said:

Her cat hits harder than her? You got to be kidding right.  You let alone admitted you did not play a summoner far enough but even said you leveled with her clearly shows enough.  I have been playing a summoner on other servers for 1 year+ now.  You just coming here and saying " Oh my friends say this so its has to be this".  When you say that the CAT is dps clearly shows you have no idea what your talking about and just trying to prove your point.  You could argue your way through to new players but I can see clearly you have no idea what your talking about. 

 

PS: Please keep trying to prove your point because as of right now all I see is "Empty vessel makes the most noise".

don't bother with r****s sins,destro and bladecancer.

its very hard for them to understand that its a bug and should be fixed

[Yancha]

On 2/12/2016 at 6:38 AM, Ango said:

I didn't bother to reply, because you quoted me without bothering to read and understand my post. Why argue with somebody who's whole argument is based around something you never actually said? It's pointless.

 

Now, fearmongering strawman attempts:

I see you still couldn't be bothered to read my original post, because if you had, you would have realised, that I was 1. being sarcastic and 2. simply addressing the annoying 'summoners deserve every nerf imaginable' posts to be found on every single page of this thread. I pointed out that the moment NCSoft went ahead and implemented all the changes people claim they want them to make about summoners, we'd have a completely useless class on our hands - which would cause them to cry all over again.

No strawmen or fearmongering.

 

As for pvp and pve balance:

All I really I said about that was that you can't balance one (pvp) without considering the effect it might have on the other (pve) or you might end up breaking an entire class in the process. 

You made it out like they couldnt be balanced separately and are making a case in the extreme that doesnt exist in reasonable amounts

 

Thats fear mongering

 

Im not interested in nerf trains nor am i interested in biased and self interested players who want to be overpowered

 

Im interested in the middle where everything functions best and arguments that dont play up things to prove a point

[Rhokdelar180]

1 minute ago, Yuhuan said:

Honestly I'm not really going to try any more if I get anymore rude I might make your 12 year old ass cry. I sit and look at her screen in the SAME ROOM so yeah I can prove her points are true TF?

Please by my guest and try harder cause as from the above posts you made lots of players are quoting against you.  I also did not know you had such a wonderful ability to know the age of other players over the internet, could you teach us this Hongmoon technique to be applied in real life : )

[Amanda]

On 2/11/2016 at 4:56 PM, Bazroz said:

this is not much of a nerf as the skill not working as intended, the taunt is supposed to last 8 seconds with a 12 second CD but from what i have done in testing so far is 8/10 times the mobs will forget about the cat after 4-6 seconds and go back after the player, and quite often the bosses just ignore the cat taunt all together, the cat taunt is what helps summoners actually get somewhere in pve we don't have all the escapes or iframe skills as the other classes do, if the cats taunt does not work we are playing only half a class which can't really take a hit

Actually, I've noticed this too. My cat doesn't hold aggro even for 8 seconds while crouched. If I do any skill during that eight seconds I pull hate. It's one thing to fix a problem but to completely break a taunt. (Why fix something that isn't broken?) If anyone of you have played Aion you know the pet is supposed to tank because we don't have anything to shield us from damage. As others have pointed out, sins that can kill world bosses just in stealthmode or destroyers with their "spin-2-win". How is summoner an OP class? I used my pet to take hate from my Force Master friend who always pulled aggro.  The pet is there to tank, it's not like this breaks the game... it doesn't even help in pvp... Yes you can still make it to the 7th floor but I'm sure you have upgraded gear and accessories at this point that others may not have yet to get.  

 

I even tested this in Fleet with a boss, sent my pet in with skills blazing and then crouched and immediately I did a skill and the boss switched from my cat to me while the cat was still crouched. Did this a few times to test this after resetting the boss. The class is still playable but it seems they might have "fixed" this a little too much. During the 8 seconds the cat should have aggro, if you can't even DPS while it does have aggro... O.o It's broken.

[Yancha]

I havnt had this issue where pets dont hold aggro for 8 seconds but its common enough to be believable

 

Theyre looking into it so itll be fixed hopefully soon

[Yuhuan]

5 minutes ago, Rhokdelar180 said:

Please by my guest and try harder cause as from the above posts you made lots of players are quoting against you.  I also did not know you had such a wonderful ability to know the age of other players over the internet, could you teach us this Hongmoon technique to be applied in real life : )

Sure it's called 12 year old detector deals 5986-6454 lightning damage caused a stun, pierces wounds and can tell who an immature 12 year old or younger jackass is. Leaves the target with a bleed effect :). And the um quotes are uh mostly you so um what? 

[Ango]

Just now, Yancha said:

You made it out like they couldnt be balanced separately and are making a case in the extreme that doesnt exist in reasonable amounts

 

Thats fear mongering

 

Im not interested in nerf trains nor am i interested in biased and self interested players who want to be overpowered

 

Im interested in the middle where everything functions best and arguments that dont play up things to prove a point

No, I did not make it out like they couldn't be balanced seperately. I went and reread my first post myself just now and how you managed to interpret it that way is beyond me. You simply took it completely the wrong way for some reason.

But be that as it may, let's agree to disagree (which we don't, but whatever).
 

 

[Amanda]

Just now, Yancha said:

I havnt had this issue where pets dont hold aggro for 8 seconds but its common enough to be believable

 

Theyre looking into it so itll be fixed hopefully soon

I truly hope so. If I had a video recording program I could show this. I attempted the 7th Floor boss last night about 8 times, I got him down to about half-way with me kiting and avoiding his massive damage but even putting on Alley cat and trying to work the cat out as dps and me tanking/kiting... (no, I couldn't finish it). Call me a baddie but that was my first attempt and I think I did fairly well without being fully upgraded. Just if the cat's taunt wouldn't have been nerfed I could have pulled it off. I don't need constant cat tank, just enough to let me spool out some damage. You get five minutes to finish him and if he's completely ignoring your cat's taunt while the cat is right under his feet... there is definitely a problem.

[Yancha]

On 2/12/2016 at 2:45 AM, Ango said:

I bet the majority of the people who are celebrating this 'ninja nerf' or bug or whatever it is and want to see the summoner nerfed (preferably both damage output and selfheal), would also be the first to complain about having a summoner in their pve party the moment they feel the class is no longer useful to them, because they don't want to have to 'carry' somebody.

 

The unfortunate truth is, that you can't balance PvP without taking PvE into consideration or you end up completely breaking a class. I've seen it done in other games and I'm getting the impression that that's exactly what people want to see in retaliation for losing in the Arena. Mind you, I completely agree that Summoners are a pain to fight in pvp and hate fighting them, but we gain nothing by demanding random nerfs. Attempting to fix something by breaking something else is never a good way to go about it.

 

Not to mention that taunt has absolutely no effect in pvp. Or do you randomly attack the cat whenever it crouches on the ground? If so, you might be an NPC and the cat's taunt the least of your problems. Long story short. It doesn't make summoners any more bearable in pvp anyway so they might as well fix it. Particularly if it's a bug.

 1.Doesnt exist in reasonable numbers

 

2.Assumption and fear monger

 

3.They can and have been balanced separately and ell for the most part

 

 

Can we agree on this at least

[OniOfTheSword]

2 hours ago, AmbivalentCat said:

If there were actually a lot of competent player tanks in this game, summoners wouldn't feel like this is such a necessary skill. But out of like a hundred cross-server dungeon runs, I have met a total of two tanks (no, not exaggerating - literally two) that could actually hold aggro, and maybe 3-4 more that actually attempted to hold aggro (and lost it as soon as Sunflower spam started). The rest didn't hold aggro as soon as I hit the boss. We're literally the tanks in most cross server dungeons, not always because we want to be, but because it's better than wiping because real tanks can't do their job.

A lot of people are still learning their classes. Until recently, as a BM, I was horrible at tanking. I thought that by taking the threat paths of Cyclone and 5-point strike, I would auto-hold aggro just by using them. But turns out, I have to constantly keep up high dps at the same time, which isn't the easiest thing to do as a BM. And even after I get aggro and position myself by using my Q/E such that the other players are behind the boss, some still manage to die from aoes since they're mostly just trying to faceroll the boss.

 

Just give it time for other players to catch up and learn their classes/boss mechanics. The game is still new to the vast majority of the players who haven't played other versions or betas, so it's to be expected. As for summoners themselves, I hope the fix arrives soon so it becomes easier for the ones who find it hard.

[Amanda]

Personally, I can understand the fact that people are still learning their class but when I've had a few tanks say to me "I'd rather have your cat tank so I could do extra damage" it makes me worry. 

 

I'm really hoping they are fixing this issue with the cat holding aggro. I noticed the issue but I just assumed that it was part of the patch and I would have to adjust my play-style but the more I've been playing after the patch the more I realized that the taunt is broken. I could crouch my cat a hundred times over and still not have it draw aggro anymore and if it does... I better not be doing a skill afterward.