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Summoner Skills: Share your opinion!!!

Raizou

By Raizou
in Summoner

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Raizou

Raizou

Posted
Posted

Hey,

 

which experience have you guys made with the new skills(-changes)?

 

I like the new petalstorm-skill, but have problems to use it correctly.

 

Also i have troubles with the new Z skill. Why my comrades dont get the 60% - Hot (heal over time) but just a 10-20% heal?

 

With regrets,

 

Raizou

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Xiaoyen

Xiaoyen

Posted
Posted

I find it disturbing they nerf our pin without nerfing KFM's infinite stun/100 to 0 BS. The cat managing to land a pin is the closest thing we have to that and only if we happen to land it while we still have the energy to blast away. 

 

I will have to play with the changes for a bit before deciding how I feel about this but so far this feels like a nerf and nerfing summoner is stupid. Yes, summoners do very well when people do not know what they are doing, but, once people are skilled, summoner is not the strongest class out there. Not at all.

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Xiaoyen

Xiaoyen

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Seems like they nerfed our pin, nerfed our doom and bloom's healing (absorb 50% damage as hp instead of 100%), nerfed our ability to have both double daze and double kd in our arsenal (unless you get HM skill), and nerfed our cat by taking away bleed stacks. NCSoft, ever been scratched by a cat? YOU BLEED!!!

 

Now granted, we got some new things I plan to try out, like moonfall, but right now I am not feeling good about these changes. Frankly I refuse to Huzzah any party members until other classes ask we get some of these nerfs undone. :-p

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Trix

Trix

Posted
Posted

I'm liking the skill changes so far, obviously not the nerfed parts but the increased speed of the LMB is a huge improvement.

 

It's much easier to weave rosethorn and bees now then it was before, i use both bees and sunflower depending on the situation so to go from rose/sunflower which you can weave together smoothely to rose/bees always felt kind of jarring because bees in much faster to cast.

 

Although we lost some healing on doom and bloom we gained it in Huzzah  and thornstrike, and while pin did get nerfed the new skill we get from the petalstorm tree has been quite useful against melee in pvp.

 

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Grimoir

Grimoir

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Posted

My few cents:

 

Cat pin: 1s shorter and 6s more cooldown - barely noticable unless you blindly just try to spam that to win. Its not like you spam pin every single time its off cooldown, especially in pvp. In pve the pin down doesnt matter all that much anyway. Once we get HM Thorn Strike you will be able to reset cd on pin if you crit. Pin was mainly good to use for sunflower but for bees play time is faaar more usefull and better since you cannot escape it like you can the pin.

 

Doom n Bloom - The heals wasnt too great before the patch anyway, you can get 10% every 30s from Z and 5% from True Friend / more if you have the HP regen part specced. Not realy something to care about

 

Bleed - Was moved from the cat to thorn strike, takes some adjustments but combined with sunflower, perfectly viable

 

Z Party Heal - Heal itself is nice, the Inspiration buff i see as utterly useless.

 

Seed Shroud change for bees - This i find really nice and cool, you can spam bees 3 seconds after successfull counter....25k per hit <3

 

Briar patch - the focus regen is awesome

 

Petal Toss - Love it!

 

Moonfall - just WOW

 

 

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Shadovvv

Shadovvv

Posted
Posted
  • Bleed was just mindless.
  • Cat Grapple was stupidly annoying, and it didn't even stop your damage output. In 3v3/6v6 it basically meant your opponent is instantly dead, especially if it got the unescape bug.
  • Super Sunflower was "one button I win."
  • Your CCs sacrificed next to nothing. Oh, and Knockdown Beckon was just wonky and generally annoying.

Honestly, Summoner nerfs were well warranted. It was literally a faceroll class, and I'm glad to see them step down into putting effort, just like everyone else.

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Xiaoyen

Xiaoyen

Posted
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3 hours ago, Shadovvv said:
  • Bleed was just mindless.
  • Cat Grapple was stupidly annoying, and it didn't even stop your damage output. In 3v3/6v6 it basically meant your opponent is instantly dead, especially if it got the unescape bug.
  • Super Sunflower was "one button I win."
  • Your CCs sacrificed next to nothing. Oh, and Knockdown Beckon was just wonky and generally annoying.

Honestly, Summoner nerfs were well warranted. It was literally a faceroll class, and I'm glad to see them step down into putting effort, just like everyone else.

Obviously not a summoner. Bleed made me happy because I like the idea of a cat doing that. Cat grapple is super easy to get out of and yes, it is our 100 to 0 if done right, but then, I do not see KFM 100 to 0 being nerfed so I'd say cat grapple should stay the way it was. Super sunflower... still deciding how I feel about that. Beckon/knockdown into V was how I escaped boss who grab (e.g. Jinsoyun). Nerfing that did nothing for pvp since beckoning doesn't help since a blade dancer or destroyer can just pick you up and run with you. If anything, I'd say nerf those guys so that if they pick you up, they have to stand still so that beckon DOES hit them. 

 

Summoner requires lots of skill when everyone is skilled. Summoner is only a faceroll class when no one knows what to do. I'd rather see kfm or fm or destroyer nerfed before summoner.

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Grimoir

Grimoir

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Shadovvv said:
  • Bleed was just mindless.
  • Cat Grapple was stupidly annoying, and it didn't even stop your damage output. In 3v3/6v6 it basically meant your opponent is instantly dead, especially if it got the unescape bug.
  • Super Sunflower was "one button I win."
  • Your CCs sacrificed next to nothing. Oh, and Knockdown Beckon was just wonky and generally annoying.

Honestly, Summoner nerfs were well warranted. It was literally a faceroll class, and I'm glad to see them step down into putting effort, just like everyone else.

Again someone who has no idea.....

 

cat grapple with a little more cd and 1s less pin doesnt change anything for a good summoner. Its far easier to eascape and was mainly used for sunflower. With the current changes where bees are instant cast upon lmb hit pin is uterly useless. The knock up into the air is faar better as it cannot be escaped and bees instant cast on airborn enemy and thats the proper 100-0 for summoners.

 

bleed was useless and sunflower was always worse than bees. The kd on beckon was stupid and useless the knockback is far better.

 

and dont forget petal toss and huzzah and the change to stealth which allows us now to cast bees with 550% bonus attack power (in pve the crits jump from 13k to 24k)

 

if you have no idea on the class dont make comments based on what everyone else that has no clue is saying.

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Shadovvv

Shadovvv

Posted
Posted
31 minutes ago, Xiaoyen said:

Obviously not a summoner. Bleed made me happy because I like the idea of a cat doing that. Cat grapple is super easy to get out of and yes, it is our 100 to 0 if done right, but then, I do not see KFM 100 to 0 being nerfed so I'd say cat grapple should stay the way it was. Super sunflower... still deciding how I feel about that. Beckon/knockdown into V was how I escaped boss who grab (e.g. Jinsoyun). Nerfing that did nothing for pvp since beckoning doesn't help since a blade dancer or destroyer can just pick you up and run with you. If anything, I'd say nerf those guys so that if they pick you up, they have to stand still so that beckon DOES hit them.

Summoner requires lots of skill when everyone is skilled. Summoner is only a faceroll class when no one knows what to do. I'd rather see kfm or fm or destroyer nerfed before summoner.

Every other class has multiple intricate combos that they need to find an opening to exploit and close into dangerous territory due to being melee, and if they suddenly mess up an input or lag, it's over. You press one button and your opponent is instantly helpless. Oh, they escape? No worries, their tab is double the CD of grapple, surely they can't escape the next one.

 

Hammer Spin gained the ability to escape grabs. Your loss of Beckon knockdown was well compensated.

13 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

cat grapple with a little more cd and 1s less pin doesnt change anything for a good summoner. Its far easier to eascape and was mainly used for sunflower. With the current changes where bees are instant cast upon lmb hit pin is uterly useless. The knock up into the air is faar better as it cannot be escaped and bees instant cast on airborn enemy and thats the proper 100-0 for summoners.

bleed was useless.

Oh, they escape my cat pin? No worries, their tab is double the CD of grapple, surely they can't escape the next one.

 

How is bleed useless? Bosses have huge natural HP regen, and if they fall off the boss gets back a crapton of health. For example Angler Yeti has 15k HP regen per 2 seconds, with a 7 minute enrage timer means he gets back over 3 million health added onto his 7.5 million, for a big whopping 10.5 million. None of the NA/EU Yeti Solos were ever completed without bleed.

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Xiaoyen

Xiaoyen

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32 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

 

and dont forget petal toss and huzzah and the change to stealth which allows us now to cast bees with 550% bonus attack power (in pve the crits jump from 13k to 24k)

 

Don't you need HM seedshroud for that though?

 

These changes are giving me a headache. I guess I am so annoyed because I was already happy. Only change I like so far is the hammerspin since now I think it works as intended.

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Grimoir

Grimoir

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24 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Every other class has multiple intricate combos that they need to find an opening to exploit and close into dangerous territory due to being melee, and if they suddenly mess up an input or lag, it's over. You press one button and your opponent is instantly helpless. Oh, they escape? No worries, their tab is double the CD of grapple, surely they can't escape the next one.

 

Hammer Spin gained the ability to escape grabs. Your loss of Beckon knockdown was well compensated.

Oh, they escape my cat pin? No worries, their tab is double the CD of grapple, surely they can't escape the next one.

 

How is bleed useless? Bosses have huge natural HP regen, and if they fall off the boss gets back a crapton of health. For example Angler Yeti has 15k HP regen per 2 seconds, with a 7 minute enrage timer means he gets back over 3 million health added onto his 7.5 million, for a big whopping 10.5 million. None of the NA/EU Yeti Solos were ever completed without bleed.

We still have deep wound which cancels out the health regen on the target if thats what you aim for.

 

spamming cat pin doesnt make you a good player plus each class has at least 2 escapes from that.

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Shadovvv

Shadovvv

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13 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

We still have deep wound which cancels out the health regen on the target if thats what you aim for.

spamming cat pin doesnt make you a good player plus each class has at least 2 escapes from that.

Deep wound does zip against natural regeneration. It only affects recovery effectiveness from skills/abilities, which only Thunder Dragon, Asura, Baruk, Taikhan, and Iron Juggernaut are capable of doing, and all their attempts to heal are preventable in the first place.

 

Which classes have secondary grapple escapes? Only Assassin, Blade Master, and Summoner do. Assassin loses their blue buff and Summoner needs their cat alive.

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Xiaoyen

Xiaoyen

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I wish they had only updated hammer spin and kept everything else the same. I was really happy with summoner except for hammer spin not working right. Now I just feel awkward. Guess I have to get used to bee juggling and having a move that I cannot trigger by myself (that particularly irks me)

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Grimoir

Grimoir

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2 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

Deep wound does zip against natural regeneration. It only affects recovery effectiveness from skills/abilities, which only Thunder Dragon, Asura, Baruk, Taikhan, and Iron Juggernaut are capable of doing, and all their attempts to heal are preventable in the first place.

 

Which classes have secondary grapple escapes? Only Assassin, Blade Master, and Summoner do. Assassin loses their blue buff and Summoner needs their cat alive.

Actually deep wound affect HP regen and not recovery. So it affects the amount you regen yourself not the ones you gain from skills.

Plus summoner still has bleed, just a different way of stacking it: Thorn strike + sunflower.

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Kixtar

Kixtar

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Posted

You guys are crazy. This patch was a huge buff, aside from the pin nerf. The heal on huzzah is utterly broken. You no longer have to channel heal your cat, just spam this everytime it's up and your whole party stays full, cat full, etc. The non auto bleed from cat is annoying but now you dont have to worry about taunt breaking your bleed stacks cause you rarely have 5 anyway, so the build becomes more crit dependent, in order to reduce CD of 2 key to stack more bleed. We still have double kd/daze same time if you have asura ember bomb and spec 2 daze. Between X and Z heals, go 3v3 or 4v4 in ww valley skirmishes and tell me your party doesnt have a huge advantage because you can just set a regen on everyone within 50m. Tbh, 3-4s pin about the same when you combo 1 cd reduc along with soul badge/nettles combo. My 1 is almost never on CD if i chain the skills right. Petal storm toss is amazing and I still like flower build with hm pellet skill, still able to stay full focus, dont really ever have to stand in the doom and bloom. I am open to bees suggestions, but it seems like i roll better dps with flower/ petal storm toss combo right now. beat naksun in like 1'20" or so with 690 ap. Any other good thoughts on summoner or tips for bees build? It seems like bees build is harder to pull off correctly which gives it an inherent disapproval to most, but if it's dps is better (without needing to counter necessarily- we cant always 4 counter big bosses), I'd like to know how and what I maybe doing wrong. Good luck cat tamers!

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