[Suggestion] Moonstone system balance

[KaMyCHiKo]

The reason to begin this topic is for an economy balance suggestion to Moonstone.

The point is that, this item (Moonstone) it's too hard to get, you can get "Moonstone Crystals", but there isn't the same item... the point is the only 2 ways to get Moonstones farming is close-linked to PvP system, there are only 3 ways to get moonstones daily farming and they are that:

1. Battleground System. (Obtaining Sparkling Battleground Loot Boxes)
2. Faction System. (Getting the Whirlwind Key for the Sparkling Battleground Loot Boxes, or Killing Main Bosses in Soulstone Plains)

3. Daily Challenge Treasure Box. (Not a farming system, only 1 daily) (My experience with this, is that you can do all the dailies during 1 week, and not you don't get the 5 Moonstones-Bundle)

The two first systems are linked to PvP (you can call it Group vs Group system, but it's PvP), the point is that a new player that achieve 800-900 AP points throught PvE, when arrive to any of this system he/she has granted lose the match or die trying to kill bosses or collecting prestige points, because veteran players are over 1,2 K AP, more than 150k de HP, and Special PvP Weapons, Jewelry and Soulshields... The chance to get a win versus them, is less than 1%.

The last one system, has a very low chance to get any moonstone... It's not a farming system, because you can reach only 1 daily and when you get the moonstone bundle, it only contains 5 moonstones, probably you can reach 15 moonstones in a month with this system, while PvP Systems (Faction and Battlegrounds) you can easily get 10-15 moonstones daily, you can reach 50 moonstones daily if you really play it hard all day and you are a veteran over 1,2k AP, and 150k HP.

So, what is happening to PvE Players...? Those that we don't want to play PvP System... (Battlegrounds and Factions) The only way for us to get Moonstones is to buy them throught marketplace, because there is no other way to get it for us, including Daily Dash, it doesn't include any moonstones, only moonstone crystals.... and the prices in the marketplace are very higher for an item that is needed for so much items, for example crafting silverfrost transformation stones need moonstones, transformation stones are needed to upgrade Baleful/Seraph to Stage 12, hongmoon soul, sacred oil, transformation stones are needed to get Premium Transformation Stones that need more moonstones with a high chance of fail in transformation, and you need Prem Trans. stones for get Raven, so summary = A high quantity of moonstones are needed for so much items.

I'm not gonna going off topic the thread with the need of moonstones, the point is that moonstones are unbalanced for PvE Players, and I recommend to choose one of this four ways/systems to balance them:

1. Include more of them in the dailies rewards and dungeons boxes drop.
2. Make a unprocessing system of crystals, for example, you can process a moonstone to a moonstone crystal free, but you can unprocess the moonstone crystal to moonstone paying a fee, for example 5 naryu silvers/coins, or 1 gold, or 1 naryu tablet, or 500 celestial peaches, or any item easily to get, but that you don't want to waste easily.
3. Deleting moonstones or moonstone crystals, only 1 item, or moonstone, or moonstone crystals, but not to have 2 items, and transform all the moonstones in moonstone crystals, or transform all the moonstone crystal into moonstones, that means, that you can get at least 1 to 5 moonstones/moonstones crystals with daily PVE like Daily Battleground or Daily Faction...
4. Include moonstone in the Celestial Peach Exchanger for a reasonable quantity of Celestial Basin Peaches... (1000 ~ 2000) or inside the Treasure Pouch of Celestial Basin with a 20 ~ 30% of drop.

That's the point of the suggestions. Constructive Comments are welcome.

Thanks in advance.

[SweetsDreams]

you're right. from my point of view this system is unbalanced

[Malign]

The whole point of making untradeable materials is so they can hand out MS crystals en masse without absolutely wrecking the economy. I agree that we need better ways to obtain them, but there really aren't all that many uses for them.

 

As for crafting do the math yourself. I keep a spreadsheet with material prices and craft costs. I can tell you right now it costs about 9.5g per transformation stone in the 35 craft with a market value of 10g each if you bought all of your mats. You would save 50s per stone so about 18g in total. You wouldn't be much worse off just buying them from market atm. Crafting in this game is very unrewarding atm cause of the high value of tradeable mats, but moonstones aren't actually the worst offenders. Sacred orbs are since you need several more per craft and they can be quite pricey too. Before the 5m exp charm release, even with MS at 6g each youd save about 1g per stone. Now it's half that.

 

As for prem stones.... I'm 1/4 today so yeah..... sadlife. Just buy em out of market lol.

[KaMyCHiKo]

11 minutes ago, Malign said:

The whole point of making untradeable materials is so they can hand out MS crystals en masse without absolutely wrecking the economy. I agree that we need better ways to obtain them, but there really aren't all that many uses for them.

Ok, leave the moonstone crystals and the moonstones, but change all the moonstones as crafting/upgrading/transmuting material for Moonstone Crystals, and moonstones will only available for sell them in the Market and for processing them into Crystal Moonstones... And as I said, there are too much uses for moonstones in crafting/transmuting system... This is so similar to the 3rd solution/way/system I write in the first post, the only difference is that you leave the moonstones, but the only one neededs are MS Crystals, but instead i have to said you that this still is unbalanced, PvP Players get moonstones for hard work, they can sell and trade it, but PvE players get MS Crystals for hard work, they can't sell and trade them...

26 minutes ago, Malign said:

As for crafting do the math yourself. I keep a spreadsheet with material prices and craft costs. I can tell you right now it costs about 9.5g per transformation stone in the 35 craft with a market value of 10g each if you bought all of your mats. You would save 50s per stone so about 18g in total. You wouldn't be much worse off just buying them from market atm. Crafting in this game is very unrewarding atm cause of the high value of tradeable mats, but moonstones aren't actually the worst offenders. Sacred orbs are since you need several more per craft and they can be quite pricey too. Before the 5m exp charm release, even with MS at 6g each youd save about 1g per stone. Now it's half that.

I think you are wrong, I have just checked all, and if you bought all materials, for a stack of 35 transf. stones, you will spend 372 gold and 6 silver, arround 10 gold 63 silvers for each stone, and price in the market just now is 11 gold 96 silver (like 12 golds) if you craft them, you will save arround 50 gold in each stack arround 15% of the total gold... but we aren't here for checking that... The point is that people who only farm PvE Dungeons aren't rewarded enough for doing it, they didn't get enough materials for farm and craft their own material for enjoy the game, I'm buying so much items throught market because I have no other choice, but if I could farm them, I will be enjoying so much more farming and crafting them, than buying it, maybe I save gold and time buying it, instead of farming it, maybe, but i think that this is the spirit of the game, and other point is that, when I craft something I didn't spent money if I've farmed the materials, maybe I don't have so much money, when you are newbie you don't have enough money for materials, get gold with 800 AP is difficult, you only get it throught dailies, the other point if I have to wait to sell all the materials, get the money, buy it, and the possibility that in that process prices changes, create so much insecurity, other point is that you need to create right stacks of items... for example... I can't sell 20 soulstones... that is hilarious, soulstones are stacked on bundles of 50/100 in market place, but I only need 20 for craft the item I need and I only have 30 soulstones, so I can't sell it in market, if I sell 30 soulstones maybe they will be in market place for sooooo long time for get the money that item costs... understand my point? Farming and Crafting is more quick, cheaper and safer than sell all materials, and buy the item crafted.

PvE people (and we are a very big percentage of the server) are getting bored to not get enough material through PvE System, but they are making massive characters, leveling them throught main quests to HM5-6 (this isn't my point), saturating the server with characters, only for get more daily rewards materials, Why? Easily, they don't have enough rewards with a daily quest that you can finish in 20 minutes, while PvP players are getting 30 more times rewards playing 200 minutes of faction/battleground... How can they solve it? Easily, they create another account, and reaching a total of 10 character, they finish all characters daily quests in 200 minutes, and they gets same rewards that probably a faction/battleground player. It benefits and incentives the multi-account and the overcreating characters and of course, create a very big wrecking economy, because you have the veterans with a lot of accounts that have incredible profits from PvE, the veterans in PvP systems with a overpowered gear, and the newbies, that seems never will reach the same level than the others... So newbies arrive at a point that they have 3 ways to follow: 1. Changes all to a PvP Character to get enough materials 2. Create a lots of characters with multiaccounts to get enough materials or 3. Spent money in NCoins to buy gold and get enough materials (better known as p2w).

With the MS Crystals through for example Celestial Basin, makes another way to farm items, a full PvE system without need of making 20 characters for reach the mats you need. I think Celestial basin is the best map/dungeon that NCSoft have made in years, because is a solution for PvE Players, but we first need to change what I said at the beggining of this post... Change MS for MS Crystal in all crafting/transmuting/upgrading areas, and why not? change all tradeable items for crafting/transmuting/upgrading areas for only non tradeables maintaining the tradeables... that will make the game more playable and not only marketing system, if someone wants to achieve a very high level quick, he will go to the market and buy all that he needs with tradeable items, but people than works hard will have his rewards too with non-tradeable items...

Sorry for the extension of my post...

[zapzap77]

System is working as intended. 6v6=gear fest, so best geared players get the moonstones and either craft or sell and everyone else who wants to craft has to buy.

 

The entire point of crystals is you can't change them back ever, so that will never change.

 

 

[KaMyCHiKo]

10 minutes ago, zapzap77 said:

System is working as intended. 6v6=gear fest, so best geared players get the moonstones and either craft or sell and everyone else who wants to craft has to buy.

The entire point of crystals is you can't change them back ever, so that will never change.

So your point is, farm moonstones is only allowed to veterans PvP Players, they have the monopoly... any other player that want moonstones has to buy them, yes or yes... if they decide together to set moonstones at 500 golds, due they are the unique monopoly, the other players has only three ways, pay it to them, play without moonstones or leave the game furious? Nice Dictatorship. Thanks goodness that this balance decisions do not depend only of you, hope more people will understand my point of view.

The point of that, is that the game is always growing up, what this means...? I will show you an example.

Imagine that I have been in the game only few days, now I'm reaching 900 AP points... Ok, just now in Battlegrounds/Faction the people is 1.100 AP ~ 1.300 AP Points... Ok I will do my best efforts during few months to farm gold, buy mats, upgrading and crafting materials, and making my best efforts...three or four months later, I'm near reaching 1.100 AP Points, and good gear for battlegrounds and faction, just left 1 week to reach the point, Ok, there is an update... There are new Gear, and new weapons, and new gems, and the old gear is easily to get, because now have a very good discount, your efforts has gone by the toilet... The best geared have been profiting thanks to me and other no full geared players, so they take out their savings, and get the new full gear, in less than 1 week, the new Battlegrounds/Faction requires 1.400 ~ 1.800 AP Points to survive, they have again the monopoly of certain mats, I need to do again my best efforts to get full geared, I need an absurdity qty of mats and new elements, and a very very higher qty of gold... again, the full geared begin to save profiting of non full geared players... I could stay talking this story infinite times... but I'm sure that you know what I'm telling you... the problem is that in a point of the story the non full geared players get tired of never change their condition and quit of the game, a balance in some mats it's the way to prevent that, and will be a great point to preserve the players, make the server bigger, and let new players join, if they get trapped, stuck, or they advance very slowly, they will be quitting soon, and giving bad reputation to the game, for prevent that we need to give equal opportunities, if not the veterans slowly will be getting tired of the game, maybe in 4 or 5 years, have families problems, works, health problems... I don't know reasons... They will be leaving game slowly... but What happen? We don't have new players, and there isn't enough players for server maintenance... :O I don't have to explain what follows...

I hope you will understand how many problems can carry to make different social classes between full geared veterans and non-geared newbies, and not to give them the opportunities to be at same level.

Anyway thanks for your comment.

[FrozenB]

The whole point of moonstone is for crafting and transmuting PTS.

 

For crafting non-tradable (account bound) items, you only need moonstone crystals. You only need moonstones to craft tradable items, which are usually for sales in the market to earn profit. Imagine that moonstones price drop to like 1g or below, the price of these tradable items will also drop accordingly.

 

For transmuting PTS, it doesn't matter if the moonstones are 5g each or 1g each. If you have bad RNG, you will cry and whine about the failure rate like the posts from other players.

 

In fact, the reason why moonstone price goes up so high is due to aransu gears upgrades, in which you will need tons of moonstone crystals. So, the price of moonstones is actually driven up by the whales or P2W players who never spend time in farming mats. It was the same when BT gears were just out, elysian orbs price went sky-rocket high too, but now since majority of the players have maxed out raven gears, the elysian orbs price drop back to normal range.

 

The point is that if you are new players, you don't really need moonstones. All you need is moonstone crystals to go up to stage 9 weapon. After that, you can buy the Transformation stone from market (as stated from above that there is no big difference in buying TS from market or craft by yourself). When you get to a stage where you need PTS to upgrade, you should be able to farm golds in dungeons efficiently. I would recommend buying PTS from market than transmuting yourself.

 

Also, I am not sure why people say moonstone from BG is for whales. Well...they are farm battle points easier and faster; however, remember that they still need to get the sparkling keys from running PVE dungeons to open the moonstone box from BG. So, it is 50/50 in PVP and PVE process to gain the moonstones.

 

From your last post, you said that you will never catch up to a whale because of continuous new updates. This is semi-true, but it is how this type of online games work. It keeps you chasing on your own tail and you have to keep on moving forward. Just 1 example, 1 year before, when you upgrade a baleful stage 3-12, you need to use PTS to upgrade in each stage. Now, it is basically free. Why are they doing this? It is because of the new content. If they keep the old upgrade system while having a whole bunch of new updates, there will be no new players joining this game because there are no way to catch up. Sooner or later, they will hand out raven/dawn/rift weapon in storyline anyways. However, at that time, we will have weapon beyond aransu weapon for sure.

[Neriux777]

Moonstones? Mooshin 15 100% drop minimum 1 go and farm if you so in need fast food. System balanced, u can upgrade all just by daily drop, rest gold for pet aura, diamonds pvp weapon, they dont need them. U just want be apman and rest game don't touches u, so go and buy.

[kiskenoo]

Naksun drops 1 or 10 moonstone crystals, not moonstones and they are not the same.

[Fieryfly]

If they were to make the crystal variety reversible like moonstone crystal back to moonstone it would make things easier. they could charge a transmute fee greater than the market price to keep the markets from falling in price.

[Malign]

12 hours ago, KaMyCHiKo said:

So your point is, farm moonstones is only allowed to veterans PvP Players, they have the monopoly...

This simply isn't true. If lower geared players actually cared enough to 6v6 en masse, the higher geared players would go up the rankings and you'd stop getting paired up with VT geared people at 1300. Seriously when they first revamped whirlwind valley and had an event for it thousands of people would 6v6. Now barely anyone does it which is why it feels like and sort of is a whale fest. There's a reason it's difficult to rank up even with high gear and thats the shear lack of players doing the content. Also if more people did 6v6 it would increase the amount of moonstones entering the market thus lowering their price over time.

 

However, what you really lack is an understanding as to why MS are so expensive. It's the aransu gear costing over 2000 moonstones to complete. Whales drained the market, and due to lack of content that provides them the price surged. TBH there is a piece of content we didn't receive (ethereal battlegrounds) that could of fixed or at least helped with this problem. I agree we need more ways to get moonstones, but the real culprits is the community itself for not doing the content that provides it enough. Maybe if ncsoft rewarded 6v6 better more people would do it but who knows. Moonstones have ALWAYS been PvP content driven btw.

[Statler]

Am 23.1.2018 um 00:38 schrieb KaMyCHiKo:

2. Faction System. (Getting the Whirlwind Key for the Sparkling Battleground Loot Boxes, or Killing Main Bosses in Soulstone Plains)

Well havent been in SSP for quite a time. On our Server (german) you can only farm moonstone crystals in SSP and only in the prime time on weekends.

As far as i remeber you only have a small chance to get moonstones from the battle chest and you need red and blue battle to craft that chest.

So i wouldnt consider SSP as a safe source to farm moonstones.

After the nerf off prestige points no one realy do mining on our server. SSP is nerfed that hard that you  dont have a chance to get 500 prestige in one mining when there are 2 or more players farming.

So "low" levels wont even have the slightes chance here when they are unable to kill unbounds solo.

 

So you can only farm moonstones on the battleground, thats the only safe source to get them.

[Namifish]

Your post makes no sense and after all seems like you have no clue how to farm moonstones 

i get around 30 ms evryday and i get atleast 150+ a week and im not even hard farming.. im just running big 8 + cs/hm 

and like one hour f15 a day i spend only 3-4 h on game so either dont come with the option you play 12 hours a day

and well f15 takes 3-4 min each run with a 100% ms you can get 20 pretty easy within one hour .. and sometimes the daily gives more but i i dont see any problem to farm them at all if you a bit more into f15 farming you can get pretty easy 100-150 ms ONE DAY with 3 ~ hours farming it so pls stop crying

ps i farmed 700-800 ms in 4 weeks with around  120-140 runs of f15 total and then just the big 8 dailys evry day so i dont see any reason to change any system. 

[Yuuffy]

Hes talking about Moonstones, not Moonstone Crystals. Ofc you can farm naksun for that...

[KaMyCHiKo]

3 hours ago, Malign said:

Moonstones have ALWAYS been PvP content driven btw.

That's the point, ALWAYS have been PvP Content, the problem of battlegrounds (whirlwind or beluga) isn't that community isn't interested on them, that's because a very high percentage of community, like me, dislike PvP, I prefer PvE, 10 times more than PvP, and improve rewards doesn't solve the problem, maybe some players will change to PvP Systems for avarice, in despite they didn't like PvP, but mostly of us, didn't like PvP, that's the point, I know that there is a percentage probably 20-35% that loves PvP and that are so much players, but still a ... 65-80% that doesn't like PvP

I'm not good enough for PvP, for so many reasons, first of all lag, so much players come from places that there isn't available optical fiber, they have lag, and so many times get stuck, again they don't have equal opportunities, other point is that follow a dificult mechanics ways like new poharan dungeon is more comfortable to me than do PvP, because i can learn times, skills, organization, but PvP is improvise all the time, you don't know what other player is going to do, and other point is the unbalanced system depending of the class, for example an assasin or KFM is powerful in PvP but not so much in PvE, while Force Master or guns sucks in PvP, but is so good for PvE. So, for get moonstone you are going to force players that dislike PvP to do PvP content...
 

3 hours ago, Malign said:

Seriously when they first revamped whirlwind valley and had an event for it thousands of people would 6v6. Now barely anyone does it which is why it feels like and sort of is a whale fest. There's a reason it's difficult to rank up even with high gear and thats the shear lack of players doing the content.

I know, I was in that revamped, (I'm not a newbie, it was only a supposition) the point is that mostly of people there have same AP easily (700~800) I have it too, and same HP, always less than 100k, the point was that in that moment, anyone can easily do whirlwind and have a possibility of win the battleground... The problem is that now is impossible, as you said, it's for whales, when i tried to do battleground the last 10 times... 6 of the 10 times I tried, an assasin one-hit killed me having 160k HP, 8 of the 10 times, 3 players of my team against one player of the other team, and the other player kill us (3 players) in less than 30 seconds... while others was capturing flag... the most sad is that I only achieve a kill in the 10 times battleground, and never win one of the 10 battlegrounds... And all of my team was bronze, with 1k - 1,2k AP, and at least 130k HP... What is expecting to new players that are reaching only 800-900 AP points and less than 100k HP?

 

3 hours ago, Malign said:

 Also if more people did 6v6 it would increase the amount of moonstones entering the market thus lowering their price over time.
[...]

but the real culprits is the community itself for not doing the content that provides it enough.

 

The point of that is linked to my before answer...

Who wants to play a content of a game for always lose? In the revamped, newbies sometimes win, sometimes lose, but now, newbies only can lose...
Oh no, you have to play battlegrounds and lose it always, it's for the good of the marketplace server economy and for get moonstones cheaper in the marketplace...
Hope you understand how ridiculous it can sound...

You need to understand that PvE Players need a way to get moonstones too, without need of do PvP Content...

13 hours ago, Neriux777 said:

Moonstones? Mooshin 15 100% drop minimum 1 go and farm if you so in need fast food. System balanced, u can upgrade all just by daily drop, rest gold for pet aura, diamonds pvp weapon, they dont need them. U just want be apman and rest game don't touches u, so go and buy.

Your answer is below:

13 hours ago, kiskenoo said:

Naksun drops 1 or 10 moonstone crystals, not moonstones and they are not the same.

The point is before MS Crystals update, Naksun always dropped moonstones, that was a way to get moonstones for PvE Players, now, we couldn't get any MS, only MS Crystals...

14 hours ago, FrozenB said:

 You only need moonstones to craft tradable items, which are usually for sales in the market to earn profit.

I'm not agree, I'm trying to craft Transformation stones for upgrade my equipment (hongmoon soul) and my weapon, instead of buy it...

14 hours ago, FrozenB said:

The point is that if you are new players, you don't really need moonstones. All you need is moonstone crystals to go up to stage 9 weapon. After that, you can buy the Transformation stone from market (as stated from above that there is no big difference in buying TS from market or craft by yourself).

Again mistake, you need arround 30 Transformation Stones to reach stage 9, that means arround 350g in market, newbie people doesn't have 350g for spent... The only way is to farm mats from their selves... about crafting, if you farms mats, the crafting is free, but if you can't farm them, you must pay, but you must read my message where I explained that you save arround 50g in a stack of 35 Transformation stones getting mats from market and crafting...  is here:
 

20 hours ago, KaMyCHiKo said:

I think you are wrong, I have just checked all, and if you bought all materials, for a stack of 35 transf. stones, you will spend 372 gold and 6 silver, arround 10 gold 63 silvers for each stone, and price in the market just now is 11 gold 96 silver (like 12 golds) if you craft them, you will save arround 50 gold in each stack arround 15% of the total gold... but we aren't here for checking that...

........

14 hours ago, FrozenB said:

Also, I am not sure why people say moonstone from BG is for whales. Well...they are farm battle points easier and faster; however, remember that they still need to get the sparkling keys from running PVE dungeons to open the moonstone box from BG. So, it is 50/50 in PVP and PVE process to gain the moonstones.

The point is that PvP players can get easily sparkling whirlwind keys, they don't need too much to do the dungeons that's drop them because are easily dungeons, not hard mode dungeons, or difficult dungeons for example like event poharan dungeon that is difficult to finish... and you probably can find partys that probably carry you, but the point is that you can get the sparkling whirlwind keys with 900+ AP, while this is not same face of the money... because PvE players can't get easily Battleground Boxes... maybe if the only way to get Sparkling whirlwind keys will be dropped throught doing new poharan dungeon event, that you need arround 30 ~ 45 minutes to finish it, maybe it will be balanced, that it's supposed that Battleground players needs to do difficult PvE dungeons to get moonstones... like PvE players need to do impossibles battleground to get moonstones... I think it's probably to be more balanced and equally, but the differente between words difficult and impossible... maybe still we will have a little difference, specially when battlegrounds requires weapon, gear and soulshields, and you can go poharan event dungeon going nude... XD

3 hours ago, Statler said:

Well havent been in SSP for quite a time. On our Server (german) you can only farm moonstone crystals in SSP and only in the prime time on weekends.

As far as i remeber you only have a small chance to get moonstones from the battle chest and you need red and blue battle to craft that chest.

So i wouldnt consider SSP as a safe source to farm moonstones.

After the nerf off prestige points no one realy do mining on our server. SSP is nerfed that hard that you  dont have a chance to get 500 prestige in one mining when there are 2 or more players farming.

So "low" levels wont even have the slightes chance here when they are unable to kill unbounds solo.

So you can only farm moonstones on the battleground, thats the only safe source to get them.

I have been today in SSP, but in the EU Server, there are so much people doing SSP during week, I haven't spent so much time in SSP, but if I remember, is on weekend prime time when you can farm them throught 3 boxes, so if there are so much people doing SSP during week, there will be more people during weekend:

"Locked Strike Wraith's Loot" (1 moonstone + %moonstones)
The blue and reb battle chests as you said... (5 Moonstones + %moonstones)
And a Special Box that is dropped by one of the special bosses but you need to make so much dmg to get it... ( 3-5 moonstones + % moonstone)

All of them usually need Soulstone Plains Keys dropped by 2 mobs:

Konta Boss, (I'm Crimson, didn't know the name of the boss for cerulean order) and by horned mob that appears when mining fase is finishing... I don't remember the name, but is a horned mob like a bull, and is linked to the Faction Daily Quest "In too Deep".

The point is, that in faction you can farm MS during weekend, how can you farm MS in PvE?

1 hour ago, Namifish said:

Your post makes no sense and after all seems like you have no clue how to farm moonstones 

i get around 30 ms evryday and i get atleast 150+ a week and im not even hard farming.. im just running big 8 + cs/hm 

and like one hour f15 a day i spend only 3-4 h on game so either dont come with the option you play 12 hours a day

and well f15 takes 3-4 min each run with a 100% ms you can get 20 pretty easy within one hour .. and sometimes the daily gives more but i i dont see any problem to farm them at all if you a bit more into f15 farming you can get pretty easy 100-150 ms ONE DAY with 3 ~ hours farming it so pls stop crying

ps i farmed 700-800 ms in 4 weeks with around  120-140 runs of f15 total and then just the big 8 dailys evry day so i dont see any reason to change any system. 

Again, I'm not talking about MS Crystal, I'm talking about MS, how many times are you going to make me repeat it?... Please... Read the other replies before reply a topic...

Here is your answer:

19 hours ago, kiskenoo said:

Naksun drops 1 or 10 moonstone crystals, not moonstones and they are not the same.

And again your answer:

1 hour ago, Yuuffy said:

He's talking about Moonstones, not Moonstone Crystals. Ofc you can farm naksun for that...

MOONSTONES ≠ MOONSTONE CRYSTALS

Thanks for your opinion to all, but the only thing I'm reading is that some of you are whales that want to proctect their profits and investsments, no one is looking at the neighbours, or the newbies that come.
I'm not the best player with 1,3k AP full geared, but I always maintain in high rates like now 1,1 - 1,2k AP... I don't need the changes, I can stay in my way with medium rate... But I'm watching new people and friends that are beggining and they couldn't achieve by their selves 1,1k AP, I'm helping my friends to reach a good AP and gears, and soulshields for doing all dungeons or whatever they want, but who's going to help the newbies that doesn't have friends in game?

Hope to see more objective comments and suggestions about this balance...
 

[JoannaRamira]

and moonstone is one of key component to make premium stone which needed for high tier weapon. Having another PVE source would be nice.

 

This basically same as soulstone. Back then it was a high demand low density item which caused progression problem for players as real PVE source is only Tomb of Exiles.

[Neriux777]

Perfect, go like old school players did before in Soulstone Planes beat opposite faction mobs for boxes, middle bosses and captured "conto" for keys and here you will satisfy your needs, and bonus soulstones from points.

[Statler]

vor 5 Stunden schrieb Neriux777:

Perfect, go like old school players did before in Soulstone Planes beat opposite faction mobs for boxes, middle bosses and captured "conto" for keys and here you will satisfy your needs, and bonus soulstones from points.

LoL guess that could only be stated from a whale who havent been in SSP for long time. 

1. they nerfed prestige drastic

- Mining rocks give 1 instead of 10 prestige

- Random unbounds on the field 20 or 30 instead of 180

- Hogdonys in mining (the guys with the little pig escort) 30 instead of 180

- Elite Warrior (4 mobs next to unbound in center) 1 instead of 7 prestige

- golden pig, grassyeti, oggerit in mining 30 instead of 180

- Conta / Soyun dont remeber but also a drastic nerfed

- Boss in red / blue battle 3000+ nerfed to a few 100 prestige

- at least ever mob/boss where drarrstic nerfed except the 6 unbound during the mining

 

Thats why no one realy do mining on the german server anymore. Most people just sit there and waiting for batte to farm evolution stones for the battle chest.

vor 8 Stunden schrieb KaMyCHiKo:

The blue and reb battle chests as you said... (5 Moonstones + %moonstones)

They maybe changed that with the nerf. When i was there last time i only got Crsytals from this chest.

 

Anyway, even i do battlefield, i aggree with you. They need to add some easy farming for moonstones in PVE. I remeber a newspost when they announce a weponcosts reduction last year. They promised to add more points to farm Monstones. They did the opposite. First of all, they add Moonstones to the Battlefield and remove them from SSP during weekdays,

Second they add moonstone crystals and removed them also from naksun.

 

I also will go one step further.

Monestones have to be removed from 6vs6 completly. They are the reason, why 6vs6 is nearly dead and so toxic.

I do a lot 6vs6 and it is full of antisocial people. With time you remeber names and you see these whales with full Vortex gear and aransu 3-6 weapon, who can carry a complet group in one game. On the next game they are AFK or simply do no dmg and feeding the opponent team just to stay in low bronze / silver rank to get easy wins.

I'll care about my rank and it realy pisses me off, when is see whales AFK or dying more often then a HM8 with MSP soulshield and /dark/light 10 weapon im my team.

When you are lucky they are in your team and want to win. When you are unlucky they are in the other team or even more worse in your team and afk.

  

Thats the reason why moonstones should be removed from 6vs6

 

 

[Neriux777]

another majesty "LoL guess that could only be stated from a whale who havent been in SSP for long time. "

First its ALL about moonstones not point systems;

And secondary now u SOLO ALL instead 20-50 peoples, do u want soulstones cost 0.5 silver?

[CorrosionWhite]

I think it's fine that the main source of moonstones is 6v6.  However, I think there needs to be some serious changes to the way players are paired/matched up in battlegrounds.  All we have as a matching system is the one they dragged over from arena where stats are equalized making it a viable system there.  6v6 is an entirely different beast and therefore the same matching system should never have been implemented.  I think all gear should be assigned values which would collectively put you into a weight class like in boxing.  Rough example would be; low geared folks(sera/bale stage 1-9 [using weaps just as a base to illustrate]) would be in the lightweight class;  slightly higher tiered folks (sera/bale 10-12, raven/dawn/rift 1-3) would be middleweight; so on and so forth.  Accessories, soulshields, pets, souls, ect., would also be included.  And again those are just some base examples to illustrate the point I'm trying to make. Also doesn't have to be gear based but stat based where certain values say in AP, Piercing, Crit Defense, ect, place you into different brackets.  But to continue with the boxing analogy, you never see fights where a lightweight class fighter is pitted against a heavyweight class fighter.  Which is exactly what the matching system in 6v6 does.  I don't know how difficult it would be to implement something like this but the matching system from arena never should have been carried over.

[FrozenB]

12 hours ago, KaMyCHiKo said:

 

Yes, whales who can farm in BG can also do PVE dungeons easily. However, remember that you only have RNG to open sparkling keys from the boxes. Sometimes, you get few keys per day by running through all heroic dungeon once. Sometimes, you get 0 keys per day. Also, these keys are not even account bound.

 

As someone has stated already, you only need to pay about extra 50 silver per transformation stone if you buy them from market. So, 30 transformation stone is 30x50 = 1500 silver = 15golds. It only takes less than a day to earn this extra 15 golds. So, I don't see the reason why you have to craft them yourself instead of buying from market. Being too stubborn is not a good thing. If you really care about this 15 extra golds and refuse to upgrade your weapon (and keep on whining on forum), then you will not be going any further in this game or will take a very long time to progress.

 

Also, you said that low gear players have hard time to farm up in BG. You are wrong because the match-up system is pretty random. Sometimes, you match up with top gear whales. Sometimes, you get matched up with same low level gear players as you. Even when you have high/top gears, there is no guarantee you can win the match easily. 1) Players can get DC or afk on purpose to derank. 2) You get matched up all low gear players against a team of whale players. 3) Team compositions whereas you are facing more than 4 whales gunners who know how to pvp. 

This is another reason why a lot of whale players are exploiting clan BG system. They can have a whale team set up and spam making new alt clan to farm the clans with low level gears in clan BG. Also, if you win a match in clan BG, you get about 1 to 1.1k battle point per player, which is far more than what you get in normal BG.

 

 

[KaMyCHiKo]

On 24/1/2018 at 6:48 PM, FrozenB said:

Yes, whales who can farm in BG can also do PVE dungeons easily. However, remember that you only have RNG to open sparkling keys from the boxes. Sometimes, you get few keys per day by running through all heroic dungeon once. Sometimes, you get 0 keys per day. Also, these keys are not even account bound.

 

Maybe now it's not so easy, I'm getting all days I play 2 keys at day doing only daily rewards just now, and I'm not doing all days the dailies rewards... But I have stacked like 400 keys, because sometime ago that was a key festival, I was only doing 2-3 days of the week dailies, and I've stucked 400 keys... maybe people that was doing all dailies or farming probably get 1000 keys easily, or much more...
 

On 24/1/2018 at 6:48 PM, FrozenB said:

As someone has stated already, you only need to pay about extra 50 silver per transformation stone if you buy them from market. So, 30 transformation stone is 30x50 = 1500 silver = 15golds. It only takes less than a day to earn this extra 15 golds. So, I don't see the reason why you have to craft them yourself instead of buying from market. Being too stubborn is not a good thing. If you really care about this 15 extra golds and refuse to upgrade your weapon (and keep on whining on forum), then you will not be going any further in this game or will take a very long time to progress.

 

I'm tired of answer the same, again and again,  and again, I've showed that it's not 15 golds, are much more golds based on actual market, watch my answers and replies you will find that I answer it to other players in this thread.

Althought that is not the point of this suggestion, what i want to do with the moonstones is not the point, the point is that I want to farm moonstones and it's impossible throught PvE, if I use them for crafting, sell, or gifts is not the point... The point is that the system must be balanced PvP - PvE and actually is unfair, because PvE is over-privilege.
 

On 24/1/2018 at 6:48 PM, FrozenB said:

Also, you said that low gear players have hard time to farm up in BG. You are wrong because the match-up system is pretty random. Sometimes, you match up with top gear whales. Sometimes, you get matched up with same low level gear players as you. Even when you have high/top gears, there is no guarantee you can win the match easily. 1) Players can get DC or afk on purpose to derank. 2) You get matched up all low gear players against a team of whale players. 3) Team compositions whereas you are facing more than 4 whales gunners who know how to pvp. 

This is another reason why a lot of whale players are exploiting clan BG system. They can have a whale team set up and spam making new alt clan to farm the clans with low level gears in clan BG. Also, if you win a match in clan BG, you get about 1 to 1.1k battle point per player, which is far more than what you get in normal BG.

I'm talking about my experience in BG, based on 10 BG runs, only for show that actually for some users it's impossible to win a BG, I'm not suggestion a change in BG System, must be it needs some arranges too, but if the only way to get moonstones it's impossible for a very high percentage of players... maybe something is wrong...

Actually low gear players are not playing BG, because it's impossible to win, so you can't say that there is a chance to get paired with low geared players for that reason, they aren't playing BG because all of us known the chances, they've learned them throught try and fail system, maybe someone very newbie can try to do BG, but after 10 times brutal lost, he will get tired and leave it... But, as i said, this thread isn't for argue about Battleground systems, the only point or reason I explained it, and I think I'm repeating again, it's for show that only way to get moonstones it's impossible for a very high percentage of players, I don't wanna discuss about Battleground system, but it's important to this thread to demonstrate that we can't get moonstones throught that system.

On 24/1/2018 at 3:59 PM, CorrosionWhite said:

I think it's fine that the main source of moonstones is 6v6.  However, I think there needs to be some serious changes to the way players are paired/matched up in battlegrounds.  All we have as a matching system is the one they dragged over from arena where stats are equalized making it a viable system there.  6v6 is an entirely different beast and therefore the same matching system should never have been implemented.  I think all gear should be assigned values which would collectively put you into a weight class like in boxing.  Rough example would be; low geared folks(sera/bale stage 1-9 [using weaps just as a base to illustrate]) would be in the lightweight class;  slightly higher tiered folks (sera/bale 10-12, raven/dawn/rift 1-3) would be middleweight; so on and so forth.  Accessories, soulshields, pets, souls, ect., would also be included.  And again those are just some base examples to illustrate the point I'm trying to make. Also doesn't have to be gear based but stat based where certain values say in AP, Piercing, Crit Defense, ect, place you into different brackets.  But to continue with the boxing analogy, you never see fights where a lightweight class fighter is pitted against a heavyweight class fighter.  Which is exactly what the matching system in 6v6 does.  I don't know how difficult it would be to implement something like this but the matching system from arena never should have been carried over.

About that, they always will try to trick it or cheat it... because what happens with a warrior that have Seraphs - Stage 1 weapon, but have Raven soulshields, and ignites accesories... or inverse way, they have aransu weapon stage 9 and eternity accesories stage 1 and MSP Soulshields... Or it could be worse... what about to get a Stalker weapon and Stalker soulshield, and no jewelry, and when they are inside the battleground they changes all their equipment to aransu... the combinations could be like one million or more and you can cheat the system... It's out, but I think this thread is again not to talk about 6v6, you are agree, because you want to play 6v6 system... but what about those that doesn't want to play PvP systems?

The point is that 6v6 is always PvP, I have played so many games MMORPGs, I have been working as Community Manager and Administrator of one, and the point is that you can find four types of communities and role gaming usually in a MMORPG...

PvE Community, PvP Community, Mixed Community and Social/Designing Community...

1. PvE Community ignore PvP Contents and only plays PvE, usually they ignore PvP contents...

2. PvP Community usually only plays PvP but they enjoys history mode too, so they plays most of the time PvP, but they aren't full disconnected from PvE contents...

3.Mixed Community, they want to play the full game, but they aren't specialized in some area, so they need too much time to get evolved in a particular content and needs double efforts to arrive same level in PvE or PvP that other players... They usually try to find the easy way to arrive to a point, they don't care if the way includes PvP or PvE contents, the only point is to improve their gears, if a content is too difficult they usually ignore them, with a exception, if that content will provide very good rewards, they will improve and put efforts for that content, working in that way to get it, but efforts must be equal to the rewards...

4. Social/Designing Community, this community is playing  specially for apparience, that means costumes, wings, accesories, colour, size and details of the character, pets, ect... they can be part of PvE or PvP Community if it's necessary, specially for get some special or wanted items (generally costumes or pets) they could be great at PvP or PvE contents and get full geared, and like the PvP/PvE contents, but usually so many of them doesn't think that get full geared or try all contents it's important, It's more important to chat, talk, and get/try nice costumes/pets/others...

If you see PvP Community is opposite to PvE Community, and force the two communities to play contents against what they likes, usually tiring these communities, so have different balanced ways to evolve to each community without the need of play contents that you don't want to play, improve so much the game... An example:

If tomorrow, NCSoft decides to delete all PvP content, it wouldn't affect the PvE content... same to the inverse path... the way for PvE to achieve this, is that... the way for PvP to achieve this, is that... a perfect balanced ways for the two communities will reach when no one will need to think that maybe with PvP content will reach better/soon their goals than with PvE content and inverse...

 

 

On 24/1/2018 at 2:52 PM, Statler said:

I also will go one step further.

Monestones have to be removed from 6vs6 completly. They are the reason, why 6vs6 is nearly dead and so toxic.

I do a lot 6vs6 and it is full of antisocial people. With time you remeber names and you see these whales with full Vortex gear and aransu 3-6 weapon, who can carry a complet group in one game. On the next game they are AFK or simply do no dmg and feeding the opponent team just to stay in low bronze / silver rank to get easy wins.

I'll care about my rank and it realy pisses me off, when is see whales AFK or dying more often then a HM8 with MSP soulshield and /dark/light 10 weapon im my team.

When you are lucky they are in your team and want to win. When you are unlucky they are in the other team or even more worse in your team and afk.

Thats the reason why moonstones should be removed from 6vs6

About that,

I'm agree, BG are toxic, but it's the same, as they say, they are not in BG for PvP, they are there for farm moonstones, remove moonstones from 6v6 or add moonstones to PvE, if they have a way to get moonstones from PvE, they probably will leave this toxic behaviour and try to farm the PvE way.

The point is, that if you remove moonstones of 6v6, there will no other official way to farm moonstones, the game will become fair for PvE - PvP Communities, but there is a problem,  you can get with lucky from dailies 5 moonstones every 2 or 3 days... that means you will wreck the market... so much people want to buy an item, and there is no way to get enough for all... that is the offer and demand law...

Moonstones are strongly linked to so much essencial materials for update weapons and accesories... TS, PTS, Empyrean Stones. So they are needed daily... if you remove from BG, upgrade weapons will be impossible, I'm trying to upgrade weapons with my own farms, and it's impossible sometimes I have to go to market and buy, if not i would probably be stacked on Baleful 10...

Thanks for all your answers.

[Statler]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb KaMyCHiKo:

The point is, that if you remove moonstones of 6v6, there will no other official way to farm moonstones, the game will become fair for PvE - PvP Communities, but there is a problem,  you can get with lucky from dailies 5 moonstones every 2 or 3 days... that means you will wreck the market... so much people want to buy an item, and there is no way to get enough for all... that is the offer and demand law...

Well on the News to Silverfrost Weapon cost change from August 11. 2016 NC-Soft said:

Zitat

We’ve also heard your requests for additional Moonstone sources, and so we’ll also be adding more locations to earn them, and we’ll be providing more info on those sources as we get closer to the upcoming content release.

Source: http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/silverfrost-weapon-cost-changes/

 

They did exactly the opposite.

First step: Remove Moonstones from SSE Mining and make it only obtainable on weekends primetime. Add them to Battleground avaialable all time.

Second step: Introduce Moonstone Crystals, remove Moonstones from Naksun (possible stacks 1,10,100) and add moonstone Crystals instead only  a stack of 1 and 10 possible. 

On the same update moonestones where replaced by crystals in SSE. you only have a tiny chance to get moonstones.

 

Again they didnt keep their promise.

 

So remove Moonstones from Battelground and make a fair way for everyone to farm them.

 

Problem solved.

[KaMyCHiKo]

On 30/1/2018 at 2:22 PM, Statler said:

Well on the News to Silverfrost Weapon cost change from August 11. 2016 NC-Soft said:

Source: http://www.bladeandsoul.com/en/news/silverfrost-weapon-cost-changes/

 

They did exactly the opposite.

First step: Remove Moonstones from SSE Mining and make it only obtainable on weekends primetime. Add them to Battleground avaialable all time.

Second step: Introduce Moonstone Crystals, remove Moonstones from Naksun (possible stacks 1,10,100) and add moonstone Crystals instead only  a stack of 1 and 10 possible. 

On the same update moonestones where replaced by crystals in SSE. you only have a tiny chance to get moonstones.

 

Again they didnt keep their promise.

 

So remove Moonstones from Battelground and make a fair way for everyone to farm them.

 

Problem solved.

I'm agree mostly with you, but you are against yourself,

We need MORE ways to get moonstones, not LESS ways to get moonstones.

Look at your point...

If they delete moonstones from battleground, we couldn't get moonstones, if no one could get moonstones, moonstones price will rise up, and up, and up... probably a moonstone can reach 50g or 100g in few weeks, in a month you can probably see them by 300g or more, I'm not going to talk about manufactured items with them (TS, PTS, Empyrean Stones, Kirin Atler, Soulshields, etc... etc...) that will wreck the market...

The only way I think your way could be good, if they delete moonstones for battlegrounds and add another ways to get easily them... like Celestial Basin... but this will be a few unfair for PvP Players... Because PvE players could get it easily, and PvP players get force to farm them throught PvE...

So I think, they need to keep their promise, add moonstones to celestial basin merchant will be great, you don't need to remove moonstones for battleground, when they will balance the time spending in Celestial Basin for get 1 moonstone with the time in Battlegrounds to get 1 moonstone, PvP players that loves PvP will stay in Battleground otherwise they will come to Celestial Basin, and Battleground probably remains be toxic, and people will leave this strange behaviour of have 100 characters for farm mats.

Thanks.

[Statler]

vor 9 Stunden schrieb KaMyCHiKo:

I'm agree mostly with you, but you are against yourself,

Why? i said

Am 30.1.2018 um 14:22 schrieb Statler:

So remove Moonstones from Battelground and make a fair way for everyone to farm them.

Problem solved.

Its basicly the same you suggested but i didnt suggest any option where to farm them.

 

Anyway at least there should be a PVE way to get moonstones too.

And removing them from PVP would maybe stop that downranking for easy wins.