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Lurkios

Summoner nerfed.. again..

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Kisagii   
12 minutes ago, Windy said:

I'm doing this -and seems so strange and slow to cast ,I'm also moving a lot and is clumsy as never before .Before patch the bees build were somehow viable as cast time -yet for me seems kind of useless .

My castings aren't slow imo and is pretty quick. I have 671ap at and out dps a KFM and WL that has a lot as higher than me.

 

even a BM

Edited by Kisagii

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Kixtar   

Then the KFM and WL aren't playing right. The best way to dps now for summoner is to melee bosses with our S3 bees. It seems stupid af we have to wait for the rosethorn to HIT the mob before the free Bees cast. Before the changes, the KR bees was hella strong. Make Bees more accessible (take out the rosethorn travel time issue, melee issue), and you will please a lot of summoners. I picked ranged so that I get to kite, not melee. NC need to learn to balance game, not just adjust damages improperly and make a class clunkier than it was. After playing 8 of the classes to almost 500-600 ap mostly, I kept reverting to summoner because their fluidity. The fact that they nerfed us some is only a small problem. It's more their willing to nerf rather than just buff others. W/e tho, game has become market simulator 2016 for me now. NC won't address the fact that they just shunned 20-30% of the community (yes there were that many summoners). RIP business model

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HateMe   
11 minutes ago, Kixtar said:

Then the KFM and WL aren't playing right. The best way to dps now for summoner is to melee bosses with our S3 bees. It seems stupid af we have to wait for the rosethorn to HIT the mob before the free Bees cast. Before the changes, the KR bees was hella strong. Make Bees more accessible (take out the rosethorn travel time issue, melee issue), and you will please a lot of summoners. I picked ranged so that I get to kite, not melee. NC need to learn to balance game, not just adjust damages improperly and make a class clunkier than it was. After playing 8 of the classes to almost 500-600 ap mostly, I kept reverting to summoner because their fluidity. The fact that they nerfed us some is only a small problem. It's more their willing to nerf rather than just buff others. W/e tho, game has become market simulator 2016 for me now. NC won't address the fact that they just shunned 20-30% of the community (yes there were that many summoners). RIP business model

Bees do not activate on hit....they are on USE now

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Raizou   
2 minutes ago, HateMe said:

Bees do not activate on hit....they are on USE now

IF you have the HM Skill for Rosethorn ;)

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Kixtar   

I do, but it still feels like I have to be standing right next to the mob to chain the bees well

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Kisagii   

I use both HM bees stage 3 and Rosethorn stage 1

 

if you also apply your roots you will do a lot of dmg to the mobs. you really don't have to stand close to them. If you can't pull out a lot of dps from it then you are simply using the skill wrong.

Edited by Kisagii

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Windy   
9 minutes ago, Kisagii said:

I use both HM bees stage 3 and Rosethorn stage 1

 

if you also apply your roots you will do a lot of dmg to the mobs. you really don't have to stand close to them. If you can't pull out a lot of dps from it then you are simply using the skill wrong.

I had some earth elements in the build i was using ,so it were wrong -fixed it and the damage is lovely ^^:D

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On 27/10/2016 at 2:55 AM, SoulsHunter said:

If supporting party with dps, tanking, healing, stealth, cat pin, is not fun for you. You only want 1 single thing (DPS). I suggest playing another class like KFM, they cannot do anything, only just dps.

a blademaster shouldnt have as tank more dps then anyone else, I see them with 10k more dps then me with similar gear, thats ridiculous

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Qei   

Cant argue about BM, that class is ridiculously the most OP class on pvp or pve and need nerf soon. But, can BM do anything if party member died? Can BM ress them while tanking for bossess? Of course no. But if u are summoner, and u tanking the boss, can u ress your party member? Easy, just put cat on them while u can keep dps ing. U guys as a summoner still have many thing that other class cant do, which really helpful when in a party. Pls, dont be an arrogant that want anything, face the less 3-4k dps like a man, dont whine for it everyday

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It is always nice to have better DPS and sad if your DPS gets nerfted.


However, just don't forget  your other utilities. I don't mind stop DPS to put on Petal Storm and assist Chi Recovery, or enter boss` melee range to rez a dead member. As an occasional healer and tanker, I make sure everyone in the party to stay alive and healthy as long as possible. Cuz 6 people DPSing is still faster than 5.

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I thought this was a gag thread, but see people really serious that summoner nerfed! You guys are the only class in the game that does everything, plus you can hide behind a pet and not even get targeted with the target system being line of sight.  Noob easy class, only having a 2 star difficulty rating on creation page and having every ability in game along with a pet.  But to the point of nerf, I hardly see it as a nerf.

 

Rosethorn (LMB)

Rosethorn (Tier 4 Stage 1) now allows the next Rumblebees to be cast instantly on a successful hit instead of requiring a critical hit.

Rosethorn (Tier 5 Stage 1) now allows the next Rumblebees to be cast instantly on use instead of requiring a critical hit.

 

Looks like a buff, no longer have to wait for crit but cast instantly.

 

Petal Storm (3)

Petal Storm (Tier 3 Stage 2) now grants additional damage to Awakened Rumblebees (RMB) for 3 seconds upon a successful hit.

Petal Storm (Tier 3 Stage 2) now grants less additional damage to Rumblebees (Stage 3) upon a successful hit.

 

Additional damage...sounds buff

 

Seed Shroud (4)

Seed Shroud (Tier 5 Stage 1) now grants additional damage to Awakened Rumblebees (RMB) for 3 seconds upon a successful Counter.

Seed Shroud (Tier 5 Stage 1) now grants less additional damage to Rumblebees (Stage 3) upon a successful counter.

 

Additional Damage...sounds like buff

 

Rumblebees / Sunflower (RMB)

Rumblebees (Stage 3) now deals decreased damage.

Sunflower / Super Sunflower (Stage 4) now deals decreased damage.

 

Ok...one nerf, but one skill decreated only to have two other increased and another hit instantly instead of only on crit..sounds like a ..BUFF...with a lame pretend appearance of "balancing" it...it is just a buff.  Point remains now as it always has, if you complaining you lose with a summoner you just have no concept of how to play these style of games..go to pong or Mario bros.

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Suldren   
10 minutes ago, Lelouch Lamperougie said:

I thought this was a gag thread, but see people really serious that summoner nerfed! You guys are the only class in the game that does everything, plus you can hide behind a pet and not even get targeted with the target system being line of sight.  Noob easy class, only having a 2 star difficulty rating on creation page and having every ability in game along with a pet.  But to the point of nerf, I hardly see it as a nerf.

 

Rosethorn (LMB)

Rosethorn (Tier 4 Stage 1) now allows the next Rumblebees to be cast instantly on a successful hit instead of requiring a critical hit.

Rosethorn (Tier 5 Stage 1) now allows the next Rumblebees to be cast instantly on use instead of requiring a critical hit.

 

Looks like a buff, no longer have to wait for crit but cast instantly.

 

Petal Storm (3)

Petal Storm (Tier 3 Stage 2) now grants additional damage to Awakened Rumblebees (RMB) for 3 seconds upon a successful hit.

Petal Storm (Tier 3 Stage 2) now grants less additional damage to Rumblebees (Stage 3) upon a successful hit.

 

Additional damage...sounds buff

 

Seed Shroud (4)

Seed Shroud (Tier 5 Stage 1) now grants additional damage to Awakened Rumblebees (RMB) for 3 seconds upon a successful Counter.

Seed Shroud (Tier 5 Stage 1) now grants less additional damage to Rumblebees (Stage 3) upon a successful counter.

 

Additional Damage...sounds like buff

 

Rumblebees / Sunflower (RMB)

Rumblebees (Stage 3) now deals decreased damage.

Sunflower / Super Sunflower (Stage 4) now deals decreased damage.

 

Ok...one nerf, but one skill decreated only to have two other increased and another hit instantly instead of only on crit..sounds like a ..BUFF...with a lame pretend appearance of "balancing" it...it is just a buff.  Point remains now as it always has, if you complaining you lose with a summoner you just have no concept of how to play these style of games..go to pong or Mario bros.

First of all, we don't hide behind the cat we actually have to control that cat. In the early stages a new player can skimp their way through, however it takes awhile to master these skills. Not only is the Summoner in charge of everything that cat does, they also heal, res, resist, tank sometimes, all while trying to keep up the dps so people don't *cricket*.

 

This isn't about "jack of all trades" good at none, and let's not forget you need a Warlock to awaken those skills, and Rumblebees is clunky and sucks to use.

 

Not only that, but as others mentioned there's many times where the cat skills don't go off, and it has to be timed right. We can't just make the cat throw down it's hammer whenever we please. These things take timing...

 

If you bothered to read, most of the posts aren't about whining it's people trying to get balance for their class.

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Kisagii   
4 hours ago, Lelouch Lamperougie said:

I thought this was a gag thread, but see people really serious that summoner nerfed! You guys are the only class in the game that does everything, plus you can hide behind a pet and not even get targeted with the target system being line of sight.  Noob easy class, only having a 2 star difficulty rating on creation page and having every ability in game along with a pet.  But to the point of nerf, I hardly see it as a nerf.

 

Rosethorn (LMB)

Rosethorn (Tier 4 Stage 1) now allows the next Rumblebees to be cast instantly on a successful hit instead of requiring a critical hit.

Rosethorn (Tier 5 Stage 1) now allows the next Rumblebees to be cast instantly on use instead of requiring a critical hit.

 

Looks like a buff, no longer have to wait for crit but cast instantly.

 

Petal Storm (3)

Petal Storm (Tier 3 Stage 2) now grants additional damage to Awakened Rumblebees (RMB) for 3 seconds upon a successful hit.

Petal Storm (Tier 3 Stage 2) now grants less additional damage to Rumblebees (Stage 3) upon a successful hit.

 

Additional damage...sounds buff

 

Seed Shroud (4)

Seed Shroud (Tier 5 Stage 1) now grants additional damage to Awakened Rumblebees (RMB) for 3 seconds upon a successful Counter.

Seed Shroud (Tier 5 Stage 1) now grants less additional damage to Rumblebees (Stage 3) upon a successful counter.

 

Additional Damage...sounds like buff

 

Rumblebees / Sunflower (RMB)

Rumblebees (Stage 3) now deals decreased damage.

Sunflower / Super Sunflower (Stage 4) now deals decreased damage.

 

Ok...one nerf, but one skill decreated only to have two other increased and another hit instantly instead of only on crit..sounds like a ..BUFF...with a lame pretend appearance of "balancing" it...it is just a buff.  Point remains now as it always has, if you complaining you lose with a summoner you just have no concept of how to play these style of games..go to pong or Mario bros.

Well I'll say this. Summoner is not such an easy class as you think. Sure it's really easy , but after lvl 50 that's where things start to get complicated.

 

First summoner is not a tank class taunt only works for 6secs and another 6 for cooldown. There are a lot of times when taunt does not work. Another thing is, why would you have a summoner to even tank a boss? The only time that happens is if it takes aggro and that only happens if the summoner is strong. 

 

Summoners did get a big nerf on sunflower though even on bees, but not as much. If people start using hm bees stage 3 and hm rosethorn stage 1 then you will see that the main class that out dps the summoner are FM and even WL at times. Then also for a really strong dps summoners need WL with them.

 

Summoners still are strong, but it requires them to not use an easy build anymore and use a more complicated one.

 

Also as said above summoners do not hide behind the pet, the pet is only there to give the summoner protection and cc use and nothing more. That's the only reason why the pet does not die before the summoner unless it's targeted and the reason behind the pet's large HP & Defense. If the summoner is letting pet do all the work then the summoner is not playing correctly. 

 

Sure summoner has healing, but they receive 10% of it while the rest of the party gets 60%. So why would you want a summoner to tank having this in mind? If the summoner dies first where is your healing? Sure they can revive,  but when they are dead there is a chance that the cat will die before pulling off the reviving. 

 

Another thing about the skill is seed shroud is pretty about the same as "decoy" a skill that sins have and also similar to a FMs sheath, but instead it does not freeze you and protect you for a bit duration of time.

 

I'm pretty sure most summoners that have used the class for a long period of time will tell you this and the only time they would ever tank is if they are over geared for the quest. 

Edited by Kisagii

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18 hours ago, Suldren said:

First of all, we don't hide behind the cat we actually have to control that cat. In the early stages a new player can skimp their way through, however it takes awhile to master these skills. Not only is the Summoner in charge of everything that cat does, they also heal, res, resist, tank sometimes, all while trying to keep up the dps so people don't *cricket*.

 

This isn't about "jack of all trades" good at none, and let's not forget you need a Warlock to awaken those skills, and Rumblebees is clunky and sucks to use.

 

Not only that, but as others mentioned there's many times where the cat skills don't go off, and it has to be timed right. We can't just make the cat throw down it's hammer whenever we please. These things take timing...

 

If you bothered to read, most of the posts aren't about whining it's people trying to get balance for their class.

First of all, you do hide behind your cat and NO..you do not control your cat.  The cat automatically attacks whatever you are attacking, you can change commands but you do not HAVE to control him.  Neither do you want to control him in Arena, he goes after the person you fire off skills.  You as a caster are not going to be right on top of the opponent, you obviously will be behind your cat firing off skills while the cat is chasing around hitting the opponent.  Now...you can be foolish...and run to side of opponent and open yourself up to enemy attack, but that would be really bad tactic and just common sense to stay behind the cat so you are not in line of sight and therefore not targeted.

 

The jack of all trades and good at none is not true at all, everyone will say Summoners are a very strong class. 

 

Every class is about timing, moot point.

 

Never said whining, I just said if you read the patch notes I posted you would see you got far more buff to your class then any kind of "nerf".  There was no nerf, you had 1 skill decreased in damage while having two others increased and a third perks instantly instead of only on crit.  I am all for balancing, but asking for more strength on a summoner is like a sin saying they want more stealth.  The balance part would be, that some of your damage vastly lowered or some of your abilities removed.

13 hours ago, Kisagii said:

Well I'll say this. Summoner is not such an easy class as you think. Sure it's really easy , but after lvl 50 that's where things start to get complicated.

 

First summoner is not a tank class taunt only works for 6secs and another 6 for cooldown. There are a lot of times when taunt does not work. Another thing is, why would you have a summoner to even tank a boss? The only time that happens is if it takes aggro and that only happens if the summoner is strong. 

 

Summoners did get a big nerf on sunflower though even on bees, but not as much. If people start using hm bees stage 3 and hm rosethorn stage 1 then you will see that the main class that out dps the summoner are FM and even WL at times. Then also for a really strong dps summoners need WL with them.

 

Summoners still are strong, but it requires them to not use an easy build anymore and use a more complicated one.

 

Also as said above summoners do not hide behind the pet, the pet is only there to give the summoner protection and cc use and nothing more. That's the only reason why the pet does not die before the summoner unless it's targeted and the reason behind the pet's large HP & Defense. If the summoner is letting pet do all the work then the summoner is not playing correctly. 

 

Sure summoner has healing, but they receive 10% of it while the rest of the party gets 60%. So why would you want a summoner to tank having this in mind? If the summoner dies first where is your healing? Sure they can revive,  but when they are dead there is a chance that the cat will die before pulling off the reviving. 

 

Another thing about the skill is seed shroud is pretty about the same as "decoy" a skill that sins have and also similar to a FMs sheath, but instead it does not freeze you and protect you for a bit duration of time.

 

I'm pretty sure most summoners that have used the class for a long period of time will tell you this and the only time they would ever tank is if they are over geared for the quest. 

 

Not me that says it is easy, the game difficulty grading on creation page gives it a 2 star "easy" play style.  You can try to blow hot air up butts to make the class look hard to play, so you can say "see..we need all these perks because it is sooo hard to play the class".  No..it is not, KFM is hard, because you can't go offense skill spam like summoner.  You need to counter everything, then switch their attack on them.  If you miss a block, or you miss a combo from a block you are just a punching bag not doing any damage.

 

Never said anything about a tank, but you go to any party running a dungeon they will say a cat is best tank.  They have fast defense and vast HP, that is what they are made for.  The cat is the tank, while the summoner is the DPS the hides behind it.  Like any MMO..you send in the tank/meat shield, then the caster stays behind and free to fire off dps skills.  So not sure how much experience you have playing a summoner, but if you think your cat is not to be used as a tank role...not sure that I can help your play.

 

I posted patch notes, they got sunflower/bees lowered, but they also got seed shroud and petal storm with boosted damage along with rosethorn instant cast instead of just on crit.  You get one skill lowered and then 3 others raised...it can not be classified as a "nerf", just simple logic.  1-1+3 does not equal a negative sum.

 

Summoners do hide behind pets, because pets are aggroed on the target and you are far back casting.  Why would you run to the side of your cat and purposely make yourself a target?  That makes no sense, if you have your cat already tanking the target, you stay behind the cat so you can not be targeted.....again, very simple logic.  If you have a bullet proof wall and someone is shooting you, the rational response is not to run out from behind the bullet proof wall....

 

Does not matter if the stealth freezes you, it makes it so you can not be targeted so you can get distance and revive your cat before getting attacked.

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Suldren   
1 hour ago, Lelouch Lamperougie said:

First of all, you do hide behind your cat and NO..you do not control your cat.  The cat automatically attacks whatever you are attacking, you can change commands but you do not HAVE to control him.  Neither do you want to control him in Arena, he goes after the person you fire off skills.  You as a caster are not going to be right on top of the opponent, you obviously will be behind your cat firing off skills while the cat is chasing around hitting the opponent.  Now...you can be foolish...and run to side of opponent and open yourself up to enemy attack, but that would be really bad tactic and just common sense to stay behind the cat so you are not in line of sight and therefore not targeted.

 

 

You have no idea what you are talking about, lol. You send the cat in, you control when it crouches, you decide when to cc/pin,  you have to keep it healed, and pull it back with beckon (also in the skill tree),  If we didn't control the cat it wouldn't do anything but chase you, it only distracts...

 

Second, we have skills that don't have infinite distance and require us to get close. Also, many classes can knock the cat out, freeze it, stun it whatever. We lose track of the cat, especially in 6vs6, because as you said people are running like mad because the cat is on them therefore the cat is usually not in front of us. 

 

This isn't like the Warlock Thrall where we can literally sit behind it, chain and do massive damage.

 

1 hour ago, Lelouch Lamperougie said:

Never said whining, I just said if you read the patch notes I posted you would see you got far more buff to your class then any kind of "nerf".  There was no nerf, you had 1 skill decreased in damage while having two others increased and a third perks instantly instead of only on crit.  I am all for balancing, but asking for more strength on a summoner is like a sin saying they want more stealth.  The balance part would be, that some of your damage vastly lowered or some of your abilities removed.

Okay, here's what you said " I thought this was a gag thread, but see people really serious that summoner nerfed! You guys are the only class in the game that does everything, plus you can hide behind a pet and not even get targeted with the target system being line of sight.  Noob easy class, only having a 2 star difficulty rating on creation page and having every ability in game along with a pet.  But to the point of nerf, I hardly see it as a nerf." and " if you complaining you lose with a summoner you just have no concept of how to play these style of games..go to pong or Mario bros."

 

You constantly put down the Summoner, this is why I replied to you in the first place.  Also, that one nerf is actually our main dps, and I don't agree with your idea of balance I think PVE it should stay the same, but lowered for PVP perhaps...

1 hour ago, Lelouch Lamperougie said:

Not me that says it is easy, the game difficulty grading on creation page gives it a 2 star "easy" play style.  You can try to blow hot air up butts to make the class look hard to play, so you can say "see..we need all these perks because it is sooo hard to play the class".  No..it is not, KFM is hard, because you can't go offense skill spam like summoner.  You need to counter everything, then switch their attack on them.  If you miss a block, or you miss a combo from a block you are just a punching bag not doing any damage.

 

Never said anything about a tank, but you go to any party running a dungeon they will say a cat is best tank.  They have fast defense and vast HP, that is what they are made for.  The cat is the tank, while the summoner is the DPS the hides behind it.  Like any MMO..you send in the tank/meat shield, then the caster stays behind and free to fire off dps skills.  So not sure how much experience you have playing a summoner, but if you think your cat is not to be used as a tank role...not sure that I can help your play.

 

I posted patch notes, they got sunflower/bees lowered, but they also got seed shroud and petal storm with boosted damage along with rosethorn instant cast instead of just on crit.  You get one skill lowered and then 3 others raised...it can not be classified as a "nerf", just simple logic.  1-1+3 does not equal a negative sum.

 

 

Again you say it's not you, but then you keep saying the Summoner is a noob easy class.  I never said the class was hard to play, I said to master just like every other class in the game. Sure anyone can play any of the classes, but every single one of them require you to get better with the harder content.

 

I just replied not long ago to another thread about people complaining about Summoners being OP, as I said there I will say again the KFM is the only class I believe can really complain about anything. My question to you, do you play KFM?

 

Now to answer about the cat being a tank, I never said anything either about the tank. However, it would be quite dumb for you to use your cat as a tank when you have a tank already in the party, this again leads me to believe you don't play a tank class. Sure, when a Summoner solo's we will use the cat as a tank or if no one in the party can take the hits, but again you show you have no idea what you are talking about because the cat doesn't taunt endlessly. The Summoner has to be prepared as soon as that taunt is up to get hit by the boss.

 

You really should just stop trying to pretend you know anything about this class.

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20 hours ago, Lelouch Lamperougie said:

Petal Storm (3)

Petal Storm (Tier 3 Stage 2) now grants additional damage to Awakened Rumblebees (RMB) for 3 seconds upon a successful hit.

Petal Storm (Tier 3 Stage 2) now grants less additional damage to Rumblebees (Stage 3) upon a successful hit.

 

Additional damage...sounds buff

 

Seed Shroud (4)

Seed Shroud (Tier 5 Stage 1) now grants additional damage to Awakened Rumblebees (RMB) for 3 seconds upon a successful Counter.

Seed Shroud (Tier 5 Stage 1) now grants less additional damage to Rumblebees (Stage 3) upon a successful counter.

 

Additional Damage...sounds like buff

 

Rumblebees / Sunflower (RMB)

Rumblebees (Stage 3) now deals decreased damage.

Sunflower / Super Sunflower (Stage 4) now deals decreased damage.

 

Ok...one nerf, but one skill decreated only to have two other increased and another hit instantly instead of only on crit..sounds like a ..BUFF...with a lame pretend appearance of "balancing" it...it is just a buff.  Point remains now as it always has, if you complaining you lose with a summoner you just have no concept of how to play these style of games..go to pong or Mario bros.

(3)
550% additional dmg only with sb and bees
without sb its nerfed to 500%

 

so 9% nerf


(4)
same as 3
 

also 9% nerf

(RMB)
bees nerfed from 750% to 500%
 

so 20% nerf

normal sunflower nerfed from 550% to 480%
so 13% nerf
super sunflower nerfed from 750% to 655%

so 12.6% nerf

only (LMB) got a slightly buff, the rest got nerfed, where do you see a buff there?

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Kisagii   
1 hour ago, Lelouch Lamperougie said:

First of all, you do hide behind your cat and NO..you do not control your cat.  The cat automatically attacks whatever you are attacking, you can change commands but you do not HAVE to control him.  Neither do you want to control him in Arena, he goes after the person you fire off skills.  You as a caster are not going to be right on top of the opponent, you obviously will be behind your cat firing off skills while the cat is chasing around hitting the opponent.  Now...you can be foolish...and run to side of opponent and open yourself up to enemy attack, but that would be really bad tactic and just common sense to stay behind the cat so you are not in line of sight and therefore not targeted.

 

The jack of all trades and good at none is not true at all, everyone will say Summoners are a very strong class. 

 

Every class is about timing, moot point.

 

Never said whining, I just said if you read the patch notes I posted you would see you got far more buff to your class then any kind of "nerf".  There was no nerf, you had 1 skill decreased in damage while having two others increased and a third perks instantly instead of only on crit.  I am all for balancing, but asking for more strength on a summoner is like a sin saying they want more stealth.  The balance part would be, that some of your damage vastly lowered or some of your abilities removed.

 

Not me that says it is easy, the game difficulty grading on creation page gives it a 2 star "easy" play style.  You can try to blow hot air up butts to make the class look hard to play, so you can say "see..we need all these perks because it is sooo hard to play the class".  No..it is not, KFM is hard, because you can't go offense skill spam like summoner.  You need to counter everything, then switch their attack on them.  If you miss a block, or you miss a combo from a block you are just a punching bag not doing any damage.

 

Never said anything about a tank, but you go to any party running a dungeon they will say a cat is best tank.  They have fast defense and vast HP, that is what they are made for.  The cat is the tank, while the summoner is the DPS the hides behind it.  Like any MMO..you send in the tank/meat shield, then the caster stays behind and free to fire off dps skills.  So not sure how much experience you have playing a summoner, but if you think your cat is not to be used as a tank role...not sure that I can help your play.

 

I posted patch notes, they got sunflower/bees lowered, but they also got seed shroud and petal storm with boosted damage along with rosethorn instant cast instead of just on crit.  You get one skill lowered and then 3 others raised...it can not be classified as a "nerf", just simple logic.  1-1+3 does not equal a negative sum.

 

Summoners do hide behind pets, because pets are aggroed on the target and you are far back casting.  Why would you run to the side of your cat and purposely make yourself a target?  That makes no sense, if you have your cat already tanking the target, you stay behind the cat so you can not be targeted.....again, very simple logic.  If you have a bullet proof wall and someone is shooting you, the rational response is not to run out from behind the bullet proof wall....

 

Does not matter if the stealth freezes you, it makes it so you can not be targeted so you can get distance and revive your cat before getting attacked.

You must not know the class at all if you are still saying that the summoner hides behind cat after I clearly explained all of the skills. The summoner will still be targeted whether you taunt the cat or not. Also why compare the class to a KFM? Sure it's more complicated, but that is also a melee class and a class that tanks such as BMs as well. You say summoner will not get targeted if you are far back, but you are simply wrong at this point. Being a certain amount of distance basically means losing out on dps & dmg and the cat will basically run to you at this point once your taunt is over. the star rating when picking the class basically means which is the easiest to learn when lvling, its not what class has the easiest time in everything. IMO SFs have it more easy than summoners now why? it's because on how the skills are and the rotations if used well. Anyway, if you are a good summoner user, why would you even use cat to tank? That literally makes no sense since the boss is just going to jump at you anyway. The main boss this actually helps on is yeti and everything else you can get through the dungeons without even taunting cat. 

Soloing mandate the taunt simply does not work and it does not matter where you place the cat because Jinsoyun will still jump straight at you. Learn all of the classes in the game before talking about another. Also I've been playing summoner before the NA/EU version even released and have been playing on china server

Edited by Kisagii

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Sinnaru   

What actually needs to get nerfed about summoners is the absurd cat grab, was it 16sec cooldown? That needs to be increased imo.

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Kisagii   
48 minutes ago, Sinnaru said:

What actually needs to get nerfed about summoners is the absurd cat grab, was it 16sec cooldown? That needs to be increased imo.

must summoners don't use it tbh since many classes have so many evades. Though the skill is 26secs cd and not 16. The only reason you will get pinned is because you simply fall into their trap and use all of your escapes before they even grab you.

Edited by Kisagii

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Meginb   
On October 31, 2016 at 1:15 AM, SoulsHunter said:

I apologise if it seems like I am bullying summoner, I just want to get it across that summoner complaining that their utility is useless are not making any sense. They claim that they "love their class" yet keep complaining that their utility is useless? Might as well go play a FM or BM? Seems to suit them better -.-

They're complaining because there's plenty of issues with the class that people ignore and only want to see the class they get beat by be nerfed as much as possible. The utility we have is entirely replaceable through other classes which can reach or surpass our dps when played properly. Then when we complain they go and link a video of an exceptionally overgeared Summoner doing tons of damage (even though most Summoners aren't at that tier) and say deal with it QQ. I don't really see any of the Summoners saying, "We want all of these utility skills and massive damage too!" In fact some of us are even saying we'd be fine trading some of that in for a smoother skill rotation... someone who really plays the class and loves it will understand that our rotation is extremely awkward in many situations. An example is having the annoying key bind for our knockdown skill being on the same one as the knock up one which leads to accidental knock ups and pissed melee, Tab has the same issue with our pinning skill being connected to the regular attack the cat uses.

 

I have FM and a KFM, they are easier to play, have fewer things to micro manage and are more fluid in rotations while having more variety than Summoner. I love my Summoner despite the flaws it has but I'm not going to turn a blind eye or pretend it's perfect when I know it can become better. I'm going to complain because I want it to be improved in some areas where it could use it, I want it to be just as fun as the other classes and I want other people to have fun with it.

Quote

I am also greatly confused by your posts. You mentioned that summoner utility is useless except for people stupid enough to fail a boss but you mentioned that you love playing a support class and helping others. You mentioned that people are selfish, that people should play with the assumption that we are not getting any help. So are you promoting everybody to be selfish and everybody should not expect help from anybody? Again I would like to point out I don't have god skills nor god gears Q.Q

TLDR: I'm promoting situational awareness, humility, the desire to learn and independence.

 

This game centers around each person's individual skills coming together with other's skills to beat stuff, that's why everyone has heals, blocks, counters, dodges and consumables. Group utility and support skills are entirely for convenience in this game, not a necessity. Yes, I like being a supporter and background player, some people like being at the top of a dps meter and seeing big numbers, I like rezzing/healing or blocking killing blows so the rest of the party can focus on what their roles are with fewer distractions. I'm not promoting selfishness, if I thought being nice could be encouraged I would do it in a heartbeat. I try to be a good role model for other players, being patient, explaining anything, asking if someone needs help... But the reality of this game, the mechanics, skills and community means that you have to play with the mindset that you're on your own. Everyone has to play while trying to do as much as they can and being aware that there's always room for improvement, that won't happen if you just assume someone will be there to back you up, assume that this fight is going to kill you and consider everything you have at your disposal. As long as you do that, I don't mind if it takes a few wipes, maybe you're new, having performance issues/lag, don't speak fluent english, aren't the most skilled or best geared player- I'll do what I can to help with any class.

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1 hour ago, Meginb said:

In fact some of us are even saying we'd be fine trading some of that in for a smoother skill rotation... someone who really plays the class and loves it will understand that our rotation is extremely awkward in many situations. An example is having the annoying key bind for our knockdown skill being on the same one as the knock up one which leads to accidental knock ups and pissed melee, Tab has the same issue with our pinning skill being connected to the regular attack the cat uses.

Everyone has to play while trying to do as much as they can and being aware that there's always room for improvement, that won't happen if you just assume someone will be there to back you up, assume that this fight is going to kill you and consider everything you have at your disposal.

Ok I get it, 'buff' summoner by removing its stealth, range shield, party stealth, increase dps. I don't know why it is a buff but all 'summoners' that 'loves their class' seems to agree it is a buff. The example about annoying key binds does not have anything to do with this, I don't see the point. You are asking for dps buff while removing utility, nothing to do with key binds. Yes summoner have flaws, other class have flaws, I agree too that is why I feel that NCsoft are balancing them all with these patches. In case you have not noticed, all these whines are from 'some' summoners players not the rest of the players. I don't know why it have to do with other pvp players? Is it their fault for whatever NCSoft did? Are they an employee at NCSoft?

 

Yes I do play assuming that someone will be there to back me up, I guess it is because I have more team spirit than the average player? I don't know, maybe it is because I know I am playing a MMORPG that is why? Oh well even though I play with the assumption that my TEAMMATE will back me up, it DOES NOT mean I play without doing as much as I can. I do as much as I can to back up my teammate while assuming they play as much as they can to back me up, so the whole team back each other up.

 

In short I do play with the assumption I will die, which I often do, so I hope players will just keep a look out and support each other. No matter how hard I try, I admit I am not perfect and WILL make a mistake some point in the fight. What is the point of partying up if I make a mistake and your teammate will just ignore you and says it is your fault, you are not 'gut' enough.

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Sinnaru   
On 11/3/2016 at 3:59 AM, Kisagii said:

must summoners don't use it tbh since many classes have so many evades. Though the skill is 26secs cd and not 16. The only reason you will get pinned is because you simply fall into their trap and use all of your escapes before they even grab you.

And no, I don't use all my escapes besides that grab, trust me, I get caught twice, one before tab out, then another quite soon enough before my tab is reset and they use that pretty much everytime their cd is off.

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Meginb   
21 hours ago, SoulsHunter said:

Ok I get it, 'buff' summoner by removing its stealth, range shield, party stealth, increase dps. I don't know why it is a buff but all 'summoners' that 'loves their class' seems to agree it is a buff. The example about annoying key binds does not have anything to do with this, I don't see the point. You are asking for dps buff while removing utility, nothing to do with key binds. Yes summoner have flaws, other class have flaws, I agree too that is why I feel that NCsoft are balancing them all with these patches. In case you have not noticed, all these whines are from 'some' summoners players not the rest of the players. I don't know why it have to do with other pvp players? Is it their fault for whatever NCSoft did? Are they an employee at NCSoft?

 

Yes I do play assuming that someone will be there to back me up, I guess it is because I have more team spirit than the average player? I don't know, maybe it is because I know I am playing a MMORPG that is why? Oh well even though I play with the assumption that my TEAMMATE will back me up, it DOES NOT mean I play without doing as much as I can. I do as much as I can to back up my teammate while assuming they play as much as they can to back me up, so the whole team back each other up.

 

In short I do play with the assumption I will die, which I often do, so I hope players will just keep a look out and support each other. No matter how hard I try, I admit I am not perfect and WILL make a mistake some point in the fight. What is the point of partying up if I make a mistake and your teammate will just ignore you and says it is your fault, you are not 'gut' enough.

My point with the key binds was that you can buff a class just by moving certain awkwardly placed skills onto other keys without adding or removing damage and it'll be a buff. See FMs, they moved the triggered skill on grabbed enemies from the 3 key, which was shared with their stun spell, to the F key. Now they can spam the triggered skill to the max with no worry of wasting their stun accidentally. Then the awakened skill, it was on F but was moved to 2 which is the main skill you spam besides lmb+rmb...

 

I don't care if they take some of our utilities and buff our damage or vice versa, my biggest issue is how people lash out at player's of certain classes JUST for being that class. It doesn't matter whether they complain in game or here on the forums where there's hardly a represention of the entire game's population, just a vocal minority, they get the same treatment. The point is, even when it's not a blatant complaint and more constructive criticism (because NCsoft does look at the forums even if they don't play the actual game), people get pelted with toxic responses. 

 

The current problem with these balance changes is that they aren't intended for our current gear level, see how OP BM is? It's because over in KR they were lagging behind. We flat out don't have the equipment to offset the buffs and nerfs being rushed out over here, ahead of the content it's intended for.

 

You asked whether I was promoting selfishness and no help attitudes. That whole last paragraph was just the response since you said you were confused about it, in short, no. It wasn't a jab at you as if I thought you were a bad player, just the cold, hard truth.  Sorry if it sounded like that. =/

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