PvE is laughable.

[Shukran]

1-  no. we are going to have it in the future. hence we have the time. and even if they rushed all the content now, there is nowhere written u have to rush all the gear. nontheless u have all the time to upgrade  without anyone running after you

 

2- you have all the rights. but at your own "risk". 

 

3-4- i agree, u had to be lvl 45 to have some possibilities of having challenge in arena. but once u get lvl 45 and u play arena, you can achieve all the goals you are pointing here by just doing arena. arena gives EXP. arena gives beans which purchases you skills. if you need pve skill , you can trade beans for ss and sell them to purchase pve skill. it is a matter of choice. and experience. and grind.

[Yetan]

I wonder if this is a culture thing. Maybe the Koreans have a much higher tolerance level of grind than the westerners?

 

The grind for gear upgrades in this game is horrifying. I don't think I'll ever get beyond 450 AP in this game. Some of the epic dungeons look interesting in the videos, but not interesting enough to make me grind to get there. 

[H2H]

On 5/13/2016 at 1:58 PM, ProvaSin said:

- Moderated content -

 

 

 

Um yes, I am an FM main. NO I dont find PVE hard, but fun. I'm on Poh, so the population is never low - especially in ssp. One of my alts is lvl50 sin with 440 ap. I get grindtooths box with him everyday(i was trying to not get personal). I'm not mad about anything other than gold spammers, and even they have become a mere nuisance really. Tons of posts about grindtooth? I've only seen yours. Only one getting a little salty here is you because apparently you need some git gud?

 

But let me help you: The way to get things done in ssp with low ap is do it when most players are doing something else. Like GHS. This way there arent' so many heavy hitters killing grindtooth before you can get your 1%. The situation is basically the same for you, as you're just not making enough damage before he dies. I usually do ssp twice per char- once for the dailies and once just to milk for prestige for soulstone pouches. For grindtooth, as a melee, you need to cc as soon as you can and then just start unloading on him. As a sin, stealth in, bomb him, start stabbin the crap outta him. And he gives a ton of time teleprompting his next move, so there's really no excuse for him taking you out.

 

And of course I'm making fun, because A: its a game and B: you're taking it way too seriously.

 

Edit: almost forgot - #Rekt

[Rockbridge]

22 hours ago, Yetan said:

I wonder if this is a culture thing. Maybe the Koreans have a much higher tolerance level of grind than the westerners?

 

The grind for gear upgrades in this game is horrifying. I don't think I'll ever get beyond 450 AP in this game. Some of the epic dungeons look interesting in the videos, but not interesting enough to make me grind to get there. 

I'm going to disagree that the grind is this game is "horrifying". Compared to some other Asian MMOs I've played, this is nothing.

Once we get caught up to Korea, we'll have all the time in the world to keep up with gears. 

[Shadowzzl]

On 11/5/2016 at 6:46 PM, ProvaSin said:

Endless grind for little improvement (if you are a legit/ non paying player of course)

I am in Awakened Scorpio weapon and evolving to True scorpio Is like 2000g of mats and 100g of upgrading fees to gain 21 Attack Power.

Upgrading jewerly on par with weapon is even more unthinkable because of stupid rng stuff like Naryu Tablets which literally force you to no-life inside dungeons or take ages to gather them.

So you either ignore one of the two or just delay everything.

It would have been ok if ncsoft actually gave people enough time to gear up for their patches, but considering how fast they are rushing new content that's just plain unfair and retarded for legit players.

 

Dungeons are stupidly easy, most of the mechanics are cheeseable and pose some kind of challenge only if you makes things harder for yourself.I am Sin and have been farming asura 4 as 3 man party since the patch hit, me and two friends: a blade master and a summoner.

Only a couple of tries were hard just because we had almost zero clue about mechanics.

So even with me being melee dps and without a Warlock/Forcemaster it turned out to be no problem at all.

That's the "hardest PvE content" for you lel, and at least I am required to dodge the boss aoes and to be knowledgeable about their combat animations, I can only imagine how retarded it must be with a ranged dps.

And I don't even have resist belt.

 

Playing melee over ranged has no benefits.

I have yet to see a boss which punish ranged classes or force them to go melee if there is a competent tank. There are just no downsides for playing certain characters.

Faction bosses are idiotic and you usually have to rely to macros/better gear to compensate the difference in dps.

Example:

Grindtooth. The boss itself is stupid as **** since he doesn't do anything more than casting aoe after having charged a bunch of times.

But the charge... oh that charge is like spitting in the face of melees.

I have around 600 ap and yet sometimes I failed getting the loot if the channel was highly populated because I got electrocuted once or twice by the aoe and lost dps.

I guess it must be a pleasure for undergeared classes which are weaker than sin dps wise and are melees :)

I won't even talk about Terrors.

 

Solo farming certain lvl 45 mats is more rewarding than lvl 50 dungs

 

p2w event and boxes.

 

Obvious cheaters not getting banned.

It is more a general issue but considering how grindy PvE is and how many time it takes to do it legitimately it just adds fuel to the fire.

When silverfrost patch was released someone was already in scorpio after a day, and a day after Sogun Lament's patch there were already legendary weapons lvl3 around.

Yeah. Seems legit.

But what amazed me the most was the max lvl Hongmoon Souls right after lvl 50 patch.

I mean... seriously? Spending thousands of gold to upgrade this thing from lvl 1 to 5 for a mere 8 power means you can literaly throw golds down the drain and still

have enough to max all the remaining gear.

 

 

 

 

You're judging the game based on 4 dungeons?,there's a lot more to come and many of them being actually hard and mechanic based.

 

Forgotten Tomb/Hell Furnace/Underground Prison being 3 of them.

[Shukran]

23 hours ago, Yetan said:

I wonder if this is a culture thing. Maybe the Koreans have a much higher tolerance level of grind than the westerners?

 

The grind for gear upgrades in this game is horrifying. I don't think I'll ever get beyond 450 AP in this game. Some of the epic dungeons look interesting in the videos, but not interesting enough to make me grind to get there. 

Silkroad 's grind was horrifyingm metin 2 afaik, rappels.

BDO is grind (kill 2500 trees as quest.interesting and deep meaning i see.)

 

what is an horrifying grind

[Thaxsom]

Wanna know what a real grind is? Play old RO. Like before trans classes and stuff.

[Tsunakai]

On 5/12/2016 at 11:24 AM, ProvaSin said:

I'll just give you a simple example:

We used to do Gen and Ken of Sogun mobbed togheter to make it easier and honestly I don't think there is another way to do this boss fight as 3, still they do a s***load of damage when they spin and with their basic attacks in general.

I as an assassin need to pay attention to the animation of both of them at same time to iframe/get away because one hit from the spin would leave me with less then half hp when they are buffed and I can only hit one of them at a time and have to anticipate the fourth stack of gold/silver buff because the aoe is pretty large so just walking 3 meters away won't do.
Think of the same situation for a ranged char, if you are the only ranged you will have to kite the puddles and the fourth stack of their Golden/Silver buff but that's literaly the only thing you have to watch out for, and you can do it just by walking away.

If there is another ranged to kite the puddles you can just sit there the whole fight and damage them both while they are stacked.

That way is slightly harder for melees but like supereasy for ranged chars.

Tell me if this isn't the definition of facerolling a boss.

 

As I said before, "with a competent tank".  you can't take the fact you have aggro in cross server runs as a downside of ranged chars lol.

Actually this is in a 4man static, clan runs or in game friends, I have the aggro, i live in melee range of the boss, everything that could hit the melee would hit me at the same time, and with half the defensive cooldowns, I manage.

 

Also in 4man i've found tanking them together to be rather too chaotic. 3:1. Leave someone alone with Gen, the other 3 Ken, kill ken till he's around 500k, then send gen over, aggro holder comes with gen, then you burst gen. Similar effect but you don't have to deal with them buffing each other or overlapping their attack animations.

[Shadzar]

Yes PVE is laughable because 1 simple design failure. No, not PVP being forced onto PVE, but that is a failure also that affects many in a negative gaming experience.

 

What I am talking about is how Mooonwater is still end game content. Follow me if you will

 

Viridian Coast you begin most everything, your character can finally access the market and for some strange reason you are forced to wait until Stillbrook Monastery to get a quest about it. Meaning you should be only level 15 there because that is when you can access the Market. Well most people have already used the market LONG before that because they used a vault and the button was there to get to the market. This is how they did their crafting was buying things off the market.

 

So we already have signs of failing to understand the level progression speed of players during the first week of content. Doesn't take much for Viridian Coast gear, just some grind to find the right things and where they are, but no more than 10 of any material, and that is crafting, not upgrading gear.

 

You needed Stalker and Blight weapons to fully upgrade weapon in Viridian Coast

 

Move on to Cinderlands and you see the same thing. You need to be well into Cinderlands and have to backtrack because you had no warning about needing blight fangs to upgrade Cinderlands level equipment. Make up your mind what level range an area is for? Odds are it took people 10 times to go through Blackram Narrows already to get their weapon from the horrible RNG, so they probably arent really interested in having to do it 1000 times except for the hardcore Achievement Hunters. Still for Cinderlands Thorns you don't need that many to upgrade anything.

 

Corrupted, Golden Deva, Boatie, Infernal weapons are needed to progress through Cinderlands. Ok doubled So that should mean double the levels if progression isnt somehow off. So you should be level 45 leaving Cinderlands? (15*2=30, +15 levels from Viridian) No, we alrady see the beginnings of a failure to understand progression because Wig of Mushin requires only level 30 something after which you move on to...

 

 

Moonwater. Here is where it gets completely stupid. Remember at this point you haven't really needed more than 10 of anything in the game to do anything and that was most for crafting like 10 copper for 2 Repair tools. Lets start to backtrack again to Tomb of Exiles for Infernal Lords Horns for gear upgrades and soulstones because after collecting countless soulstones if you took part in faction in Viridian and Cinderlands, you still don't have any except from Tomb of Exiles.

 

Lycan, Hujikar, Imperator, Profane....Here you have pretty much got everything from the 4 areas of Moonwater. Foothills gives you Lycan, Hoshead Hujikar, Basin for Imperator, and Necropolis for Profane. Brightstone is missing, isn't that how we got here? But that ws jsut a memory that somehow brought us back to the current time?

 

So far the same number of weapons required to go through Cinderlands, so the scale is of. maybe it is 15 levels per area so the level 30 to do Wings of Mushin makes more sense and Moonwater ends at level 45. Well this IS how it was. Moonwater ended on the same schedule. But along there the number of materials for things jumped drastically.30 soulstones would be needed for 1 of the weapon upgrades. There is still little access to them, but if this is end game, then more people would be playing so factions would be ripe in Basin and Brightstone areas to allow you to paly for them Everyone is doing the sme things, so the playing field is still even for all.

 

Now enter Silverfrost, it is being designed or thought of by someone. We now know that Profane is the end of the Moonwater weapon path. The problem lies befor Silverfrost is released and Moonwater is still the end game. Since we have been getting progression the same as other it means everyone had Moonwater as end game at some point.  Probably took a LONG time for Silverfrost to be released originally, so something was needed to spice up Moonwater. Enter Siren Pirate path of weapons...

 

Dokumo, Forgotten Brightstone, Boatie, Storm Siren, Brightstone, Siren, Misty Woods Cold Iron, Dark Pirate, Silver Deva, Pirate, Warrior

 

Moonwater is still the end game at this time while Silverfrost is in development and you need 11 more weapons to upgrade to current end game weapon That makes 15 to gt out of Moonwater. Also to note it has probably taken a few THOUSAND soulstones, nothing like Viridian or Cinderlands, to get here. That is fine it is end game right? You expect end game content to take longer so people can't just rush through it.

 

Here is the problem, Silverfrost comes out and the weapon pat changes so Siren Pirate is removed to bring it back to needing only 4 weapons to get on to end game content. But that doesn't change the problem that much because you need 400 Frozen Stingers and loads of other high numbers to get into Silverfrost upgrade path. The entire Moonwate needed to be rewritten to reduce it to levels matching Cinderlands since it was no longer end game material. Somehow the 1 month since its releasegong on 2 now the devs think is enough time to get all this done? No it was given a year at least in other regions as the game wasnt even ready with that content at that time.

 

It takes 500+ Warrior Tokens 100 for Silver Deva Weapon, 200 for Warrior weapon, and 200 @ 50 per item to upgrade Weapon, ring, earrings, necklace.

 

Here is where we see the failure if it werent for people stuck in the end game style Moonwater weapon progress, that even the acessories take toomuch crap to get through Moonwater. This should be redesigned so it doesn't take so much, so people can get to the end game grind, not random mid game grind because it used to be end game and they forgot to scale the game as new content came out.

 

Obviously Silverfrost has even more since new players will soon only be able to go from Profane to Silverfrost weapons, but I haven't gotten there yet because I and many others are struggling with the former end game content in a now mind game area.

 

This is why PVE is a joke after Cinderlands especially, because they changed the end game, but forgot that when they moved the goal posts, they also needed to tailor the older content.

 

I reached 45 HM 3 before Silverfrost came out, and was not even into Siren weapon at that time because how much XP is given you can't avoid leveling up just off the dailies. Now I sit at 50 HM 5 STILL IN MOONWATER, because the massive amounts of XP given, yet unable to get to the content made for my level. I look at the new Daily Challenge and laugh because I couldn't hope to even complete half the things on it.

 

Content is based on level? Well we know that is false by looking at cross server dungeons where most of the PVE takes place outside of storyline questing. The majority of dungeons don't exactly care about level, sure they have one listed, but that is because they require a specific weapon or above. That is why you see so many people in Dungeon Lobby, asking for X+ AP because that is the weapon you need, plus their "lets have an easy farming run" because you need TOO MUCH CRAP to progress all because the failed realization that:

 

MOONWATER IS NO LONGER END GAME!

 

The fact that Moonwater is still treated in any way like end game with its requirements to progress is what makes PVE the biggest joke there is. When it scaled up exponentially AS end game material that was fine, but look at the requirements for those still stuck after Silverfrost release and can't do anything.

 

So the answer to help people is not to give them things from an event that help them get those 1000 materials needed, they give something to replace one of the weapons, when it if the other things that are the PITA to get. Nebula Stone doesn't replace soulstones or warrior tokens or Hae Mujin's Machismo, or Poharan's perfume, you know the things you need a lot of, it replaces a mundane easy to get item... the weapon itself. This just shows another failure of the game design in the RNG drop rates of weapons trying to for people into a pay-to-play schema of buying brilliant keys to get the right weapon for your class.

 

This means that the original makes, forgot what was in Moonwater because they are so focused on Silverfrost and beyond for however many years it has been out. This could also affect the story unless they had a story bible to remind them where they came from and where they were going with it, but we know the story has failures as well, like the "darkside" path with Mushin that meant nothing. It didnt even last that long. The only thing that made it last any length of time was the delay in releasing Story content from meeting Jinsoyun one time and Mushin picking your broken bloody corpse up to practically beating Mushin for the right to move on so you could meet Jinsoyun again and she still whoops your CRICKET and now thinks you to be dead.

 

It really only serves to kill off the 7 Masters (count them, it was 6 before Leerock showed up) to make you the ONLY 1 that can stop Jinsoyun, except for everyone else also is the last Hongmoon survivor that is the ONLY, CHOSEN 1 to stop Jinsoyun. DansGame

 

I mentioned in another thread about how Cinderlands was the sweet spot of the game, and this is a major reason why.  The main reason being the story and speed of content. You actually get to do something. Yonkai is dead after Wings of Mushin. Sure he is probably in those original locations when you go back as a static NPC to give quests, bt you finally got to kill him...no ...wait.. you didn't... Jinsoyun did it for you! FailFish

 

Moonwater has to be fixed for those still stuck in it because a choice made by NA/EU publishers that can help them get on to the content of Silverfrost by not only removing Siren Pirate path for weapons, but lowering material costs of things like soulstones, Warrior Tokens, Machismo, Perfume etc for ALL the Moonwater gear since it is NOT END GAME content anymore.

 

So long as Moonwater is designed in any form or has remnants of end game content now that Silverfrost is out, then PVE wil be a joke. Nothing but a grind to force people to have to subscribe mor to play longer to get to end game content.

 

Remember, New players are trying the game, so you have to make sure they can progress and empty lower level zones wont get them to continue playing. New servers that new players can start on will only help so long, unless you infinitely open new servers, because once they get to Moonwater and see the exponential growth in amount of things needed to upgrade, they will reach the same conclusion the grind is a chore, not fun; and get bored witht he game because they are stuck in the same areas to have to upgrade equipment or die constantly in content they have the right level for, but not enough strength because they are undergeared for it.

[CrazyAmber]

If it is really easy, try the same you're doing, as destroyer :D

 

[Smither]

op is absolutely right.

 

fact is with the way this game is set up and how blatantly pay to win it is BNS will have very few new players join because there will be nobody to grind with as only people that throw money at the game will be left playing and well they don't know what grind is they just swipe the card and have maxed out gear.

 

anyone that says this game is not pay to win is just in denial

 

hey the combat is fun but not worth my time trying to keep up with the whales, if I log in its for a pure casual dungeon run, ignoring all their spam ads to get me to buy into this event or that event that just further more makes me want to never invest in this game again

[CrazyAmber]

Like, people you are getting frustrated because you want the best already, seriously?

 

just set up your goal to reach scorpio, thats way enough needed for now! why you really worry about maxing using around 5000 gold already? pay to win for sure if you fight someone who instead of enjoying the game opened his wallet, sure thats a good scenario

but over all to enjoy all you can even jump with true pirate/scorpio, and even more do arena, you wont need anything, and if you do will be secret techniques, like, seriously, how can you say ''keep up with the game'' when you talk about fancy things? you dont even need them, you are the responsible of ruining your game experience by spending money or a lot of time in it instead of knowing it all and enjoy it as it is, after all its about a beautiful asian story, not about greedy guys who want the best gear now, what you gonna do if you had everything maxed just now? youd leave tomorrow and youd say the same, the game is boring etc etc, you just dont know how to appreciate a game thats why you will never find a game that will fulfull your needs

[Tiropat]

I don't get how people see this game as pay to win, or grind heavy, or hard when the content is so easy. My static managed to get the 4 min asura kill with breeze gear, and last night we managed to clear 6 man Sogun's Lament naked with asura weapons.

[Shadzar]

34 minutes ago, CrazyAmber said:

Like, people you are getting frustrated because you want the best already, seriously?

Not people are upset because the timeframe they expect people to rush this mass grind of material from the gem hammer fiasco is ridiculous because THEY want everyone to be in Silverfrost already and players are still stuck in Moonwater unable to do Silverfrost content because Moonwater still has end game requirements for gear. Players are literally stuck in this former end game content because it didn't properly scale when Moonwater was no longer end game content, and they want to be ale to actually play the NEW content.

 

Being arbitrarily blocked out of the newest content is PO'ing people and the only solution the NA/EU teams are doing is adding more "spend money" to get this fixed and allow people to get up rather than fixing the failure in the game design that didnt remove Moonwater end game requirements. For thos that got stuck in the Moonwater weapon paths, they should have just reduce the amount of materials needed to upgrade so they could move on since anyone not into Siren Path will be forced into Silverfrost path Jun 1 anyway.

 

That mean new players will have the ability to get to the newest content quicker than players that have been here longer. That is just crapping on your players, and you expect them to be all giggly and cheerful that they are getting crapped on by bad game design and poor planning? DansGame

[Tiropat]

44 minutes ago, Shadzar said:

Not people are upset because the timeframe they expect people to rush this mass grind of material from the gem hammer fiasco is ridiculous because THEY want everyone to be in Silverfrost already and players are still stuck in Moonwater unable to do Silverfrost content because Moonwater still has end game requirements for gear. Players are literally stuck in this former end game content because it didn't properly scale when Moonwater was no longer end game content, and they want to be ale to actually play the NEW content.

 

Being arbitrarily blocked out of the newest content is PO'ing people and the only solution the NA/EU teams are doing is adding more "spend money" to get this fixed and allow people to get up rather than fixing the failure in the game design that didnt remove Moonwater end game requirements. For thos that got stuck in the Moonwater weapon paths, they should have just reduce the amount of materials needed to upgrade so they could move on since anyone not into Siren Path will be forced into Silverfrost path Jun 1 anyway.

 

That mean new players will have the ability to get to the newest content quicker than players that have been here longer. That is just crapping on your players, and you expect them to be all giggly and cheerful that they are getting crapped on by bad game design and poor planning? DansGame

this content isn't impossible to do without siverfrost weapons though, 400 ap is enough to clear 4 Man asura

[Miku Lyn]

TIL 2000 gold a lot and is impossible to get and something that cost 20g on the AH is total rng, and you have to no life in dungeons to get them.

[CrazyAmber]

Nope you guys just will for more and more like in everygame you play, I am using awakened siren, havent upgraded my infernal acc, I have all materials to but im waiting, and still I was able to do many things even was tanking the 24 man dungeon bosses in silverfrost, havent got a single new secret technique and Im happy with 3 gems, so who says its impossible? 

 

please, try playing as destroyer for everything, and you will find what is really hard, but still I enjoy it and is a nice challange so don't argue

[Tsunakai]

On 5/13/2016 at 3:37 AM, ProvaSin said:

2)It's F2P so I'm entitled to get everything without trying coz im 2gud
 

 

 

[Tsunakai]

2 hours ago, CrazyAmber said:

Nope you guys just will for more and more like in everygame you play, I am using awakened siren, havent upgraded my infernal acc, I have all materials to but im waiting, and still I was able to do many things even was tanking the 24 man dungeon bosses in silverfrost, havent got a single new secret technique and Im happy with 3 gems, so who says its impossible? 

 

please, try playing as destroyer for everything, and you will find what is really hard, but still I enjoy it and is a nice challange so don't argue

Carry an entire group thru the mechanics of yeti as destroyer pls.

[Nilkemios]

PvE is just depressing, not laughable...

[RikuGx]

9 hours ago, Thaxsom said:

Wanna know what a real grind is? Play old RO. Like before trans classes and stuff.

Just logged in to quote and upvote. 

So much truth in just one sentance =3

[Charly]

This game have no grind compared with old version of Lineage II

[CrazyAmber]

On 15/5/2016 at 11:22 PM, Tsunakai said:

Carry an entire group thru the mechanics of yeti as destroyer pls.

Sure yeti is easy for destroyer try solo it then

 

Im totally sure des can tank yeti like nobody, but try to dodge the 5 punches he does on the floor that freezes you as destroyer good luck

destroyer is an amazing class, but if you solo you can't do anything great, unless they gave destroyer the ability too, but i rather playing it as it is because it makes us meet others and create great parties, its just the fact we have like 7 CCing skills but it doesnt mean you can do all, try to carry a party through all the yeti dungeon, good luck with it, only boss ccing and tanking if you mean that

[Tsunakai]

14 hours ago, CrazyAmber said:

Sure yeti is easy for destroyer try solo it then

 

Im totally sure des can tank yeti like nobody, but try to dodge the 5 punches he does on the floor that freezes you as destroyer good luck

destroyer is an amazing class, but if you solo you can't do anything great, unless they gave destroyer the ability too, but i rather playing it as it is because it makes us meet others and create great parties, its just the fact we have like 7 CCing skills but it doesnt mean you can do all, try to carry a party through all the yeti dungeon, good luck with it, only boss ccing and tanking if you mean that

Most destroyers I come across in 4man pugs cry when they pull aggro. Meanwhile im a squishly little FM keeping the attention of all dungeon bosses in the game.

[Shukran]

when i was young if a DPS took aggro on some mob he used to apologies and stop dpsing or wait for tank to take aggro before starting dps.

 

times have changed