Can't decide - Sin or FM for group dungeon contribution

[Noellessa]

Hi all,

Trying to decide on an alt to use in endgame dungeons and am stuck between assassin and FM.  I like both classes, and am unsure as to which would contribute more to group content at endgame (currently I have a warlock who I use to farm that is HM3).  My question is which of these two classes is more desired in parties and can contribute more now that assassins get the group buff.  Does this buff plus sin's high (some say highest) dps make them more or less contributive to group play?  Thanks!

[KatHead]

2 hours ago, Noellessa said:

Hi all,

Trying to decide on an alt to use in endgame dungeons and am stuck between assassin and FM.  I like both classes, and am unsure as to which would contribute more to group content at endgame (currently I have a warlock who I use to farm that is HM3).  My question is which of these two classes is more desired in parties and can contribute more now that assassins get the group buff.  Does this buff plus sin's high (some say highest) dps make them more or less contributive to group play?  Thanks!

My answer will be the correct one for 99% of the player base.

 

Force Master

 

If you feel your skills and internet connection (less than 30 ms) put you in that top 1% roll sin, if not you really cant go wrong with a FM. Since you are already playing a class that is viewed as a buff bot, you might as well mix it up and play a dps class and throw some fire and ice around.

 

Sin is melee. which means more effort for everything. You will need a lot of soul stones though and Sin is super good in pvp atm. 

 

With all of this said, I would play the one I liked more. 

[Shadovvv]

KR tends to rate Assassin as the top tier class, with Force Masters following suit. With a perfected Dark build and 100% damage uptime, Assassins surpass Force Masters by miles. That said, I personally don't play Force Masters so I don't know enough about their kit.

 

Now, what do the two classes have over each other in terms of utility?

• Assassin:
  • Multiple iframes to tank the boss.
  • Decoy Stealth Protection: shields everyone in the party except you with two iframes from what would be fatal.
  • Smokescreen:
    • Anti-projectile with 15 focus recovery and 10% HP recovery.
    • Stealths the entire party and gives everyone a 0.5 second iframe on cast.
  • Highwire: 3 second grab to fit extra damage in for the party.
  • Lotus of Escape:
    • Escape: Pulls all dead, near dead, or chi recovering allies within 100 meters to the mark and reduces chi recovery time by 6 seconds.
    • Rescue: Pulls all allies within 8 meters of the mark directly to you, stealths them for 3 seconds, 1 iframe for them in 3 seconds, and 100% movement speed for the entire party for 6 seconds.
    • Fighting Spirit:  40% crit chance, 50% crit damage, and 70% life drain for the entire party for 10 seconds.
• Force Master:
  • Frost Sheath to iframe party mates and yourself. This doesn't work on all attacks, however, such as Yeti's ice slam while already frozen, unlike Stealth Protection.
  • Divine Veil to shield party mates from projectiles, 15% HP recovery, and reduces damage intake while inside.
  • Phantom Grip to pull near death or recovering chi allies within 8 meters, reduces chi recovery time by 6 seconds, and 10 second immunity.
  • Kiting. Bad Force Masters tend to run the boss around and annoy melees by chasing them, meaning they can't deal damage and the tank can't maintain aggro.

[Tsunakai]

Taking into account that people playing on KR i've spoken so have said, Sins have highest dps in theory, but in practice, FM comes out on top, every time.

 

Also i've never seen the Sin's protection save anyone frozen when yeti's slams.

[Shadovvv]

44 minutes ago, Tsunakai said:

Also i've never seen the Sin's protection save anyone frozen when yeti's slams.

Either:

• There's summoners in the party, their stealth protection is shared and sets each other on cooldown.
• Someone else is using Frost Sheath, BM Block, etc.
• Sins don't have it spec'd, because:
  • "I don't have enough skill points"
  • They don't know what it does
  • Don't feel like taking it because they're selfish and think only about their own survival.

[Noellessa]

Thanks for the input all ^_^  With all the information, it seems hard to determine which is more useful in PvE group content.  I had no idea assassin had as many group helping skills as Shadovvv listed, since I usually hear/see people asking for FM for dungeons (or WL -- but that's mostly just b/c they want my soulburn >.> <.<).  Looking at the list there, assassins would seem to bring more to the group, so I wonder why they are often kinda looked down upon for content and FM requested?  Again, I like both classes [though assassin seems to solo stuff much easier due to skipping via stealth and easy boss cheese].  Thanks again for any further input!  

 

*on a happy note, at least for both of these I'll be able to choose Siren instead of Oath path..*cries*

[Ceralune]

13 hours ago, Noellessa said:

Looking at the list there, assassins would seem to bring more to the group, so I wonder why they are often kinda looked down upon for content and FM requested? 

The reason sins are usually looked down upon is because, even though their potential for damage is huge and they do have some good tools, mistakes are very punishing on sin. You can't take many hits and if you mess up it will hurt. Many sins lack the ping and/or skill to make full use of their kit. Add to that the fact that people tend to generalize when they see bad sins and then assume that all sins are bad, and suddenly popular opinion is that sin isn't very good.  In contrast, FM is range and you don't have to worry about dodging stuff as often. It's easier for a FM to put out damage. Not to mention, FM tools are still very helpful - many people refuse to do 4-man yeti without a FM who can frost sheath them from all 8 freezes.

 

Imo it really depends on how much effort you wanna put into mastering whatever class your alt is. Sin is a high effort, high risk, high reward class, and I do believe a good one can beat a FM for dps on certain bosses. FM is one of those classes that you don't have to be really good at to perform well. Personally, I main sin and I find it really fun, so I don't think I'll ever ditch it for anything else (I played FM during beta and it felt really boring in contrast).

[Shadovvv]

14 hours ago, Noellessa said:

 Looking at the list there, assassins would seem to bring more to the group, so I wonder why they are often kinda looked down upon for content and FM requested?

People tend to heavily underestimate assassins (even I originally wasn't aware of Lotus of Escape and Stealth Protection) or simply like to disregard our tools and zerg in and die when we could have just popped Rescue/Stealth Smokescreen and carried the party through. We're also missing a few tools to perfect our DPS (Hongmoon Heart Stab, Hongmoon Fighting Spirit), but it's still solid.

 

Somehow Force Masters are considered godly while Assassins are one of the most disliked and unwanted classes (and still are), even though we bring much much more. Also, multiple Force Masters can be bad because Frost Sheath's cooldown is shared between all of them and one misuse can screw the entire party over (happens with Yeti occasionally), while Assassins can have two Fighting Spirits going every 90 seconds by keeping mind of their 45 second resist cooldown (although the same thing with Stealth Protection applies with Frost Sheath). In fact, Force Masters using Phantom Grip to pull and protect party mates is literally a one in a million chance, along with Destroyer's Grab and Iron Fortress and Summoner's Petal Storm, while Assassins simply can't sacrifice Fighting Spirit for Escape.

 

55 minutes ago, Ceralune said:

Not to mention, FM tools are still very helpful - many people refuse to do 4-man yeti without a FM who can frost sheath them from all 8 freezes.

What tools? Phantom Grip doesn't work on bosses while Highwire does, Divine Veil only heals HP while Smokescreen is either Chi regeneration or an iframe (plus I've never seen Divine Veil being used in combat anyway), Force Masters don't have Fighting Spirit, and kiting in general is frowned upon. The only notable thing you have is Frost Sheath which is more useful on bosses with threatening multiple hits (Yura), but has the same end result as Stealth Protection against an enemy with one threatening hit (Yeti).

 

You can bring in an assassin to substitute Frost Sheath for Yeti. Also, Frost Sheath doesn't work against the ground pound if they're frozen by Yeti.

[Ceralune]

57 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

What tools? Phantom Grip doesn't work on bosses while Highwire does, Divine Veil only heals HP while Smokescreen is either Chi regeneration or an iframe (plus I've never seen Divine Veil being used in combat anyway), Force Masters don't have Fighting Spirit, and kiting in general is frowned upon. The only notable thing you have is Frost Sheath which is more useful on bosses with threatening multiple hits (Yura), but has the same end result as Stealth Protection against an enemy with one threatening hit (Yeti).

 

You can bring in an assassin to substitute Frost Sheath for Yeti. Also, Frost Sheath doesn't work against the ground pound if they're frozen by Yeti.

Tbh, I'm not entirely familiar with FM skills. Beta was a while ago and I didn't get to 45 anyways. But at least from what I've seen, I'm not going to discount the value of frost sheath or divine veil. Not to mention some of them are easier for FM to use. =\ The main purpose of veil that I usually see is projectile protection anyways, and it does a good job of that. In my experience, when the FMs in my party use them correctly (which is quite often), they are very helpful. Anyways, I don't find Highwire all that useful... maybe it's secretly a great tool and I just I don't see the usefulness, but I'd rather dps than grab. If that's the case I'd love to know how to take advantage of it. Most people don't stay in smokescreen radius for chi regen anyways, as far as party support is concerned it's still mostly seen as projectile protection with a smaller area than veil.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would play sin over FM any day - like I said, I think sin tops FM in dps for some bosses. And I find it far more fun. But there's a reason people still hold FM in such high regard, and it's not just misguided range hype.

 

EDIT: Ohh, and kiting is annoying as heck, but I don't really consider it a tool. It's annoying, but if the alternative is having them die... well I'm not quite cold-hearted enough to say they should just die instead lol.

[SoWutBruh]

as someone who mained sin for first month after release, and now is lvl50 hm6 fm with 500~ ap , i can say few things 

PvE : Yes, assassin in theory has more dmg.. but you LITERALLY need 5 ping to pull it off, and that is why koreans say assassin is on top ,imo . 

fm dmg is just much more consistent , with burn and also double join attack stun Glacial Beam and knockdown Heatwave help a lot in bosses that have to be cc'd (like bloodmane was in bsh , and yeti in A.Den, ) . 

FM is A LOT easier to pull off that dmg , while sin just needs way too much effort.  and also there is a big + on FM that you can do SSP bosses like its a joke. FM is way easier to get used to and dmg is easy to do . with minimal effort you are 2nd best dps in game, next to 10 and less ping assassins. + the hongmoon skill that we get in one of next patches will TOTTALY overhaul FM aoe... 35k base dmg AOE with instant cast. Multiple blaze is just a skill that you will fall in love with.

 

as for the PVP : Assassin is way easier in this form to be good with.. you can very easy get to 1900ish (if it wasnt for summoner hax, AmIRight >.> )  while fm is tottaly another story,  with assassin u can play like its pve all up until gold.. then you just try as much as you can to go on your opponents nerves and either pve them if they dont have anything to get you out of stealth, or set up your web/stunlock combo over and over again.  and fm is like, you need CONSTANT awareness of your escape cooldowns, and when to use your ice, for example FM vs destro matchup, u use ice only AND ONLY if he is in fury and/or typhoon ("red spin" ) .. chill stacks are also one of the things u want to keep track of , since u can only stun people with Impact (1) if they are frozen , and double aerial isnt very easy to pull off.  and again  the hongmoon skill that we get in one of next patches will TOTTALY overhaul FM aoe... 35k base dmg AOE with instant cast. Multiple blaze is just a skill that you will fall in love with. AND you will rain hell upon your 3v3/6v6 enemies

[Shadovvv]

23 minutes ago, Ceralune said:

Tbh, I'm not entirely familiar with FM skills. Beta was a while ago and I didn't get to 45 anyways. But at least from what I've seen, I'm not going to discount the value of frost sheath or divine veil. Not to mention some of them are easier for FM to use. =\ The main purpose of veil that I usually see is projectile protection anyways, and it does a good job of that. In my experience, when the FMs in my party use them correctly (which is quite often), they are very helpful. Anyways, I don't find Highwire all that useful... maybe it's secretly a great tool and I just I don't see the usefulness, but I'd rather dps than grab. If that's the case I'd love to know how to take advantage of it. Most people don't stay in smokescreen radius for chi regen anyways, as far as party support is concerned it's still mostly seen as projectile protection with a smaller area than veil.

 

Don't get me wrong, I would play sin over FM any day - like I said, I think sin tops FM in dps for some bosses. And I find it far more fun. But there's a reason people still hold FM in such high regard, and it's not just misguided range hype.

 

EDIT: Ohh, and kiting is annoying as heck, but I don't really consider it a tool. It's annoying, but if the alternative is having them die... well I'm not quite cold-hearted enough to say they should just die instead lol.

Yeah, I'm not meaning to devalue Force Masters, my point is that Assassins have a very powerful kit that either rivals or exceeds what Force Masters have. We can accomplish as much as Force Masters can in Yeti, so I don't see why they're preferred over us. It's silly to judge an entire class just because of one person not used to the steep learning curve.

 

I personally use Highwire just to let others fit in damage unharmed or just to get some heat off of me and preferably onto the tank. Yeah, it's not a great skill especially since Act/Cord do nothing and Voltage damage is mediocre, but at least it's better than standing around doing nothing or not being able to grab the boss at all.

[Shiune]

SIN in the end contributes more than a FM because their dmg is on par but their assisting skills overall are better. 

 

Though I do have to admit that I currently can't use stealth protection for my group because I simply don't have enough skillpoints even with HM7. 

I could get rid of some skills but I don't want to because otherwise I have to give up on chi, damage, healing, iframes or other things which are a simply not worth it for me. 

Also while it's true that a SIN basically can contribute more a FM is still safer to go with because most sins just suck in this game and even as a sin main myself I hate to go do to dungeons with other sins because most of them just suck so hard. 

That's the reason assassins are hated so much - because if the player is shit the class is shit. 

Other than FMs: If the player is shit the class is still pretty good. 

 

Also i see highwire as a very bad skill which can't be pulled of in 99% of the game anyway. 

Only time you can cast it is at yeti when he jumps the 2nd time and heat phase and gets stunned and you are standing in range. 

 

 

[vita]

19 minutes ago, Shiune said:

SIN in the end contributes more than a FM because their dmg is on par but their assisting skills overall are better. 

 

Though I do have to admit that I currently can't use stealth protection for my group because I simply don't have enough skillpoints even with HM7. 

I could get rid of some skills but I don't want to because otherwise I have to give up on chi, damage, healing, iframes or other things which are a simply not worth it for me. 

Also while it's true that a SIN basically can contribute more a FM is still safer to go with because most sins just suck in this game and even as a sin main myself I hate to go do to dungeons with other sins because most of them just suck so hard. 

That's the reason assassins are hated so much - because if the player is shit the class is shit. 

Other than FMs: If the player is shit the class is still pretty good. 

 

Also i see highwire as a very bad skill which can't be pulled of in 99% of the game anyway. 

Only time you can cast it is at yeti when he jumps the 2nd time and heat phase and gets stunned and you are standing in range. 

 

 

This is the truth, it has always been the players not the class that is the problem. I think too many times others have seen assassin being solo hero, doesn't help the party, doesn't use their party tool, this simply give others a bad impression of assassin and it will stick, causing players to prefer other classes instead of assassin. It doesn't really matter if they have good kit, it's whether they actually uses them. You and shadovvv maybe some of the good assassin around but generally others that play assassin are simply solo hero.

[Shadovvv]

1 hour ago, Shiune said:

Though I do have to admit that I currently can't use stealth protection for my group because I simply don't have enough skillpoints even with HM7. 

I could get rid of some skills but I don't want to because otherwise I have to give up on chi, damage, healing, iframes or other things which are a simply not worth it for me.

 

That's the reason assassins are hated so much - because if the player is shit the class is shit. 

Other than FMs: If the player is shit the class is still pretty good. 

Are you using Bolt Strike? I have points in all the essential skills and I still had 2 leftover by HM7. The +15 second cooldown increase is enough to deter me from getting it.

 

Also why the hell is the same not said for the rest of the classes? I rarely see other classes using their own kit (e.g. the downed protection skills I've mentioned) and I'm the only one who calls them out on it.

1 hour ago, vita said:

This is the truth, it has always been the players not the class that is the problem. I think too many times others have seen assassin being solo hero, doesn't help the party, doesn't use their party tool, this simply give others a bad impression of assassin and it will stick, causing players to prefer other classes instead of assassin. It doesn't really matter if they have good kit, it's whether they actually uses them. You and shadovvv maybe some of the good assassin around but generally others that play assassin are simply solo hero.

Believe me, I *want* to use my kit. It's just other people won't let me and they'd rather play Leeroy Jenkins and die instead of letting me pop stealth. Now, I personally don't keep track of other players (because I have them hidden) unless they die to the boss or firewall, in which I'd immediately run over to a safe corner and use Lotus of Escape to pull them to safety (back before Fighting Spirit was in our kit) to infuse chi. I honestly don't see *bad* assassins unless they pop their buff at the wrong time, fail to complete their double CCs, don't use Time Bomb ever, or just don't communicate, and *ironically* the same can be said for many other classes.

 

If Fighting Spirit was moved to Tab and Lotus of Escape was available (though this might make us super OP), or Webbing was buffed to help PvE dramatically (e.g. doesn't break at the cost of significantly reduced bind duration, lets face it Flash Kick sucks), our kit might be seen as more impressive.

[Shiune]

Yeah i do use bolt strike and yeah I may can give it up for the stealth protection but if I want to use the protection I want to use the HM one so they can dodge 2 hits and there I would still miss 2 skillpoints.. will do it with HM9 I guess. 

[spongemike]

FM. Is easier to do great damage at a safe distance and is a lot easier to play. Also ppl tend to like FM even if the player suck. I remember doing my first lvl 46 dungeon and I DIE like 4 times no knowing what to do and the low hp I have doesn't help. The other party members didn't say much one was even nice enough to give some tips lol. Generally ppl like FM but hate Sins.

[Noellessa]

Thanks for the replies all -- I actually experienced this some, too, playing assassin.  On my warlock, I can mess up a ton and even die a few times and no one ever says anything except "thanks" for soul burn no matter what else I do.  When I did simple dungeons on assassin or even blade master, people complain if I take aggro and the mob moves, if I die, if I go invis and the mob/boss resets or something...I think there's a strange bias against melee classes as a whole, and assassins in particular, in this game -- and leeway to ranged dps like WL andFM... >.>

[Archess]

55 minutes ago, Noellessa said:

Thanks for the replies all -- I actually experienced this some, too, playing assassin.  On my warlock, I can mess up a ton and even die a few times and no one ever says anything except "thanks" for soul burn no matter what else I do.  When I did simple dungeons on assassin or even blade master, people complain if I take aggro and the mob moves, if I die, if I go invis and the mob/boss resets or something...I think there's a strange bias against melee classes as a whole, and assassins in particular, in this game -- and leeway to ranged dps like WL andFM... >.>

Your workdload as a melee is extremely huge, you need to know exactly what is going on at all times, *cricket* up one time and yer a dead noob, then we have all the melee friendly mobs in this game, bad optimization and fellow players with the patience as if they have a Tazmania Devil in their pants that play the ranged classes that have to do nothing of the above. Sit back, light a smoke, mash some RB, Mash some LB, maybe an F if they feel like it. Meanwhile you are almost playing a piano ^^

 

I would say, play a ranged class or what you prefer to play.

 

I play a KFM and sometimes i really do not feel like doing the dungeons when i am tired, just because of all the sharp tools that surround me.

[Shadovvv]

1 hour ago, Archess said:

Your workdload as a melee is extremely huge, you need to know exactly what is going on at all times, *cricket* up one time and yer a dead noob, then we have all the melee friendly mobs in this game, bad optimization and fellow players with the patience as if they have a Tazmania Devil in their pants that play the ranged classes that have to do nothing of the above. Sit back, light a smoke, mash some RB, Mash some LB, maybe an F if they feel like it. Meanwhile you are almost playing a piano ^^

Times like these I wish bosses would randomly target the range classes and murder them. Force Masters and Summoners need to suffer from the same pain that us melees go through.

 

Seriously I like to know what excuse Force Masters have for NOT taking Phantom Grip to rescue party mates, since it doesn't even work on bosses to begin with. What excuse do you have for not randomly popping Divine Veil to heal up party mates?

Same with Destroyers and Summoners. What excuse do you have for NOT using Iron Fortress or Petal Storm to protect party mates?

[Tsuchiryu]

50 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Seriously I like to know what excuse Force Masters have for NOT taking Phantom Grip to rescue party mates, since it doesn't even work on bosses to begin with. What excuse do you have for not randomly popping Divine Veil to heal up party mates?

Same with Destroyers and Summoners. What excuse do you have for NOT using Iron Fortress or Petal Storm to protect party mates?

Same reason(s) some Sins charge ahead permastealthed as if they were playing solo: they wanna be one-man parties with little to no regard for that kind of party support and, you know, doing some actual teamwork besides being DPS machines on autopilot. Can't really blame them, game takes a bit too long to demotivate that kind of mindset for all classes in general in certain scenarios.

 

I went over your questions into more detail in the other topic where you asked them in case you haven't looked it up.

[Shadovvv]

4 minutes ago, Tsuchiryu said:

Same reason(s) some Sins charge ahead permastealthed as if they were playing solo: they wanna be one-man parties with little to no regard for that kind of party support and, you know, doing some actual teamwork besides being DPS machines on autopilot. Can't really blame them, game takes a bit too long to demotivate that kind of mindset for all classes in general in certain scenarios.

Ironically I find every single other class charging ahead than me, and they don't have perma stealth, yet they don't get blamed. I could have just popped stealth, but the party simply does not give me a few seconds to respec Smokescreen and Lotus of Rescue and would rather waste a whole minute needlessly fighting mobs.

[Tsuchiryu]

19 minutes ago, Shadovvv said:

Ironically I find every single other class charging ahead than me, and they don't have perma stealth, yet they don't get blamed. I could have just popped stealth, but the party simply does not give me a few seconds to respec Smokescreen and Lotus of Rescue and would rather waste a whole minute needlessly fighting mobs.

Most other classes have other helpful tools to use while others charge the mobs before you respec, like threat generation, CC, grabs, snares... basically, tools to keep them in one spot long enough to heavily damage them. All of which gives time for others to contribute as well.

 

When it comes to charging ahead, how often do you see Sins doing anything other than permastealth? Which I think helps ONLY the Sin... and probably only when other classes don't attack before stealth is over. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's the impression I get from seeing how many Sins play in the PUGs I join.

 

Keep in mind all of the above is without taking into account cases where it's best to avoid mobs. For the cases where that is advisable, stealth would help if it can be triggered without engaging mobs into a fight or something. Regardless of whether or not that's possible, you really shouldn't expect most people to know that about Sins at first, so they do what THEIR classes can within their limitations, ideally as quickly as possible.

 

 

I mean, I'd say many knows about other party-wide helpful things like Destroyer and BD grabs, FM's Divine Veil and Frost Sheath, KFM and BM needing a few seconds to ensure they hold aggro, Summoners' Doom n' Bloom and Seed Shroud, Warlock's Soulburn resetting cooldowns and boosting certain attacks... but how often do you think others have EVER heard about SIN's party-wide helpful things before you brought up this discussion? Honestly, I haven't until now. Don't doubt many others are on the same boat as I am.

 

None of these things help Sin's reputation on the whole... in no small part because not enough Sins use such tools, I'm afraid. WAY too much focus on permastealth on the class itself alone for too long has taken its toll on its reputation to the point the class is barely known as being able to do ANYTHING good besides permastealth, which is good more for the Sin than the party as a whole.

[Shadovvv]

2 hours ago, Tsuchiryu said:

Most other classes have other helpful tools to use while others charge the mobs before you respec, like threat generation, CC, grabs, snares... basically, tools to keep them in one spot long enough to heavily damage them. All of which gives time for others to contribute as well.

 

When it comes to charging ahead, how often do you see Sins doing anything other than permastealth? Which I think helps ONLY the Sin... and probably only when other classes don't attack before stealth is over. Correct me if I'm wrong here, but that's the impression I get from seeing how many Sins play in the PUGs I join.

 

Keep in mind all of the above is without taking into account cases where it's best to avoid mobs. For the cases where that is advisable, stealth would help if it can be triggered without engaging mobs into a fight or something. Regardless of whether or not that's possible, you really shouldn't expect most people to know that about Sins at first, so they do what THEIR classes can within their limitations, ideally as quickly as possible.

 

 

I mean, I'd say many knows about other party-wide helpful things like Destroyer and BD grabs, FM's Divine Veil and Frost Sheath, KFM and BM needing a few seconds to ensure they hold aggro, Summoners' Doom n' Bloom and Seed Shroud, Warlock's Soulburn resetting cooldowns and boosting certain attacks... but how often do you think others have EVER heard about SIN's party-wide helpful things before you brought up this discussion? Honestly, I haven't until now. Don't doubt many others are on the same boat as I am.

 

None of these things help Sin's reputation on the whole... in no small part because not enough Sins use such tools, I'm afraid. WAY too much focus on permastealth on the class itself alone for too long has taken its toll on its reputation to the point the class is barely known as being able to do ANYTHING good besides permastealth, which is good more for the Sin than the party as a whole.

The advantage of Sin's party stealth is that you ignore fighting completely, without running the risk of anyone dying or getting stuck in combat. Now, I personally cannot see other players because I have them hidden, so I cannot make judgments on Sins rushing ahead with permastealth. However, every single time I ask the entire party to wait for me to respec into party stealth to bypass mobs, they ignore me and decide to zerg ahead into mob territory. It just seems pointless for assassins to try to stealth run the group when they constantly rush ahead without us, and it's even worse when the party does smack talk (the same thing happens when no one deaggros Suwit on the way to Poh).

 

Honestly, sins are not in the only boat of party-wide tools. As I've said before, Force Masters, Destroyers, and Summoners have kits to protect downed party mates but never use them. Either chalk it up to NCSoft's poor skill descriptions, the constant discrimination towards Assassins, people never bothering to do some research, or people simply not caring about anyone but themselves and their own survival (countless times I've said "why didn't you use this skill to protect me?" I've also actually tried to spread awareness about Decoy Stealth Protection and one of the sins in my clan refused to take it because he expects others to pull their own weight).

The reason Assassins no longer take Lotus of Escape is because Fighting Spirit overrides it (though its still useful on the way to the boss). We don't really use Highwire either because its a lot less useful than Destroyer/Blade Dancer Grab; we can't pull nor do we give any party benefits aside from keeping the boss restrained, plus it hurts our DPS.

 

For permastealth against bosses, you have to understand it's constructed solely for damage purposes and one double CC in stun, and they won't have enough points to spec Decoy for stealth protection. The non-stealth build requires the Hongmoon skill from Bloodshade Harbor to utilize to its full potential, or it won't be useful at all and act inferior to the permastealth build until then. Either that or people are more accustomed to the stealth build, or simply selfishness. Still, don't judge the entire class just because one person's not running his kit properly.

[Tsuchiryu]

8 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

(countless times I've said "why didn't you use this skill to protect me?" I've also actually tried to spread awareness about Decoy Stealth Protection and one of the sins in my clan refused to take it because he expects others to pull their own weight).

Truth to be told, that Sin your clan kind of has a point too. Party protection helps immensely, but there're also tools for each class to protect itself alone. Good teamwork required for harder stuff like Yeti relies on using both well. Expecting others to pull their own weight isn't a bad thing, but that should include party protection/support too, not just plain DPS and not dying.

8 hours ago, Shadovvv said:

Still, don't judge the entire class just because one person's not running his kit properly.

Sorry, but until more people learn their classes beyond the stereotype, that's precisely what's going to keep happening. They are partly to blame for the unawareness of other ways Sins can be helpful. People will worry more about their own class first and THEIR kits. As they should since if they do it well enough, others will trust each other more.

 

Yep, it's an uphill battle but keep up the good fight. At least some like you are actually trying.

[HeiHua]

DO NOT even try to play assassin if you have more than 10 ping to the server, seriously. 

 

90% of assassins are weak due to the ping, it is not even funny how ping dependant is this class. 

1 milisecond reaction slower and its game over for you and everyone around you. xD 

 

I played assassin as my very first character in this game and i regret the time i spend on it, i regret the keyboard and mouse i used to play it and my table, chair and my eyes. I would have better luck playing a 2 games on 2 different pc's both as a KFM than assassin alone, do not play it. 

Hard to play, hard to master, hard to even walk or jump. 

At this point i am not even surprised why this class has double "ass" in its name, because it is super "ass" to play it.