Pay2win or not, opinions?

[lnvisibleOne]

2 minutes ago, Ambition said:

really? -__-

Yes, really. Look up dragon fountain legendary taiwan and see what it's proc is and it's max stats, compare to black or white soul. 

[Shukran]

8 minutes ago, lnvisibleOne said:

Your definition of p2w exactly describes 50 cap. The main hongmoon weapon can evolve into legendary but its max attack is lower than that of the legendary that is gotten 99% of the time through cash shop rng boxes which not only has an insane proc but also has a much higher damage cap. There are gems that are only obtained through the cash shop as well as pets which are only obtained through the cash shop that at max level give 16k hp and a good 1k defense. The average non cashing player on the Taiwan server averages about 60-65k HP at a reasonably high HM level. The average casher has 80k+ and the super p2w players I've seen with well over 100k HP (Max I've seen is 128k). The game isn't p2w yet but it most definitely is come 50 cap. Anyone in denial about that is merely uneducated on the subject or foolish. 

the day they will implement that box i will tell you if it is really p2w. if that weapon has better stats ofc it wuill vbe p2w.

 

but we have not yet lvl 50 neither that weapon.

[lnvisibleOne]

5 minutes ago, Shukran said:

the day they will implement that box i will tell you if it is really p2w. if that weapon has better stats ofc it wuill vbe p2w.

 

but we have not yet lvl 50 neither that weapon.

We 100% will. There is no way they won't implement them as they're a major source of income for the company. 

[Shukran]

i can not read the future.

 

but we are europe.

asians are well known to be farmers and grinders. afaik they already changed stuff on EU version from other versions.

so im optimistic.

 

otherwise, well. even if p2w you can always see how much imbalanced it is, depending on how "op" will be faction's quests.

[Ambition]

il just pray it isnt true. :)

[lnvisibleOne]

7 minutes ago, Ambition said:

il just pray it isnt true. :)

Ignorance is bliss after all. :P

[Naunet]

15 hours ago, GreenDestiny said:

Look at it this way. If you have a job and disposable income you will probably want to buy stuff and take shortcuts so you don't have to spend time grinding. If you don't have a job you usually have plenty of spare time to farm. Either way it works out okay the problem is when they make stuff so that you have to spend Ncoin to get it or that the odds of earning something in game from farming are so low it drives you nuts.

 

I have a job with some amount of disposable income and no way would I ever pay money to take shortcuts around playing a game. It goes against the philosophy of... playing a video game. Not to mention it invariably ends with the in-game means of obtaining progress becoming more and more arduous, because the company then has a motivation to drive people towards the cash shop to purchase their "alternative".

[MaHaN]

i dont think its pay 2 win, but it is pay 2 finish faster... im a destroyer lv 28 now and i killed many lv 45s in arena, not to mention VIPs.... mostly skill based game ( or spamm based, for me spin spin spin :D )

[lnvisibleOne]

5 minutes ago, Naunet said:

 

I have a job with some amount of disposable income and no way would I ever pay money to take shortcuts around playing a game. It goes against the philosophy of... playing a video game. Not to mention it invariably ends with the in-game means of obtaining progress becoming more and more arduous, because the company then has a motivation to drive people towards the cash shop to purchase their "alternative".

I can agree with the second part but I can't exactly agree with the first. Alot of people play video games for various reasons. A large majority find gratification in overcoming a long journey and building themselves up by putting the time and work in. Others simply want the gratification of winning through any means necessary. The latter are more prone to playing FotM classes and using cash shop purchases to circumvent grind. Every MMO has a solid mix of both camps so to say it goes against the philosophy of playing a video game is more your personal philosophy (which I tend to agree with by the way but not everyone does).

[Shlayg]

So tired of seeing the communities from MMORPGs trying to avoid saying a  game is p2w, they'll come up with anything to avoid saying it. "It's pay for convenience guise." "Pay to finish not win. xpp"

 

First off, "P2W" became a pretty general term that means: to make a game easier or progress your character faster.

 

You're able to  progress your character by spending money on the game, it's as simple as that. It's part of many games, just say how it is. This is what p2w means, it's what everyone calls p2w.

 

It's fine, these guys have to make money some way, just don't try and make bullshit terminology and say how it is.

 

I also heard they're adding currency exchange too which is the ultimate p2w method.

[Silmaria]

10 hours ago, Zarec said:

 

Youre trying to make pay2win be all encompassing when it is not.  

 

If if you can get legendary weapons only in the store then yes it is pay2win. If you can get them in store and game then no by definition it is not pay2win. 

By your logic, all those +15 weapons and +15 armor on others game can be gotten by normal mean with insanely high luck or buy a CS items for easier way, then they are not Pay2Win?

 

I can see why you defend Pay2Win then. I guess having 1500 gold and with rank 1-10 premium with cheaper way to get it and more easier is not Pay2Win to you.

 

Guess there are no Pay2Win by your definition, RIGHT? Like 100% hp restore in Perfect World can be gotten by normal players as well, just spend lots of time lol.

[Kaom]

On 4.02.2016 г. at 2:38 PM, Ambition said:

Okay so let me first start of with saying, i don't mind one single RNG Box but i have a bad feeling more of these boxes with bigger rewards will come in the near future, so that raises the next question.

 

I hear alot of people say : ''for me pay2win means if you can buy items that give you effect/combat stats that you cannot get the normal way ingame''

 

This is true, and i agree but i have a slightly different view on it, for me pay 2 win means, if people can simply buy the items f.e moonwaterstones through the RNG boxes, without having too put the same amount of work and time into your character as the ''normal'' people, in other words I have to spend 4-5 hours everday doing the dailies for 15gold so i can buy the items necessary to upgrade my gear, while a rich person will just buy 100 of those boxes and get a few stones and tons of soulstones and just buys his gear to the max. That is something really annoys me, the aspect i liked about this game is that you have to WORK hard for everything, so when you are maxed out people will look at you and think nice bro!  that gets completely taken away with these boxes.. meh

 

What do you guys think? i know there are more topics about this, not trying to hate but it really gives me a bad taste, i understand they need to make money, but there are more ways that lead to Rome. ;)

The way I see it , Blade and Soul [ NA / EU ] is Pay For Convenience .

[Silmaria]

1 hour ago, MaHaN said:

i dont think its pay 2 win, but it is pay 2 finish faster... im a destroyer lv 28 now and i killed many lv 45s in arena, not to mention VIPs.... mostly skill based game ( or spamm based, for me spin spin spin :D )

I don't think you are fighting with lv 45 in arena at lv 28 because I played 2 character to lv 45 and I remember at lv 28 when my first arena, it was so easy.

 

Unless you play in a tag match where you can see your team mate lv 45, then you are sure to be fighting against lv 45.

 

Also, Pay 2 Finish Faster depend on the type of games, like Skyforge and Age of BULLSHIT where there are no end to how much stats you could get, a free player will always behind on Paid players, then yes it is a F2W as well.

 

[MaHaN]

5 minutes ago, Silmaria said:

I don't think you are fighting with lv 45 in arena at lv 28 because I played 2 character to lv 45 and I remember at lv 28 when my first arena, it was so easy.

 

Unless you play in a tag match where you can see your team mate lv 45, then you are sure to be fighting against lv 45.

 

Also, Pay 2 Finish Faster depend on the type of games, like Skyforge and Age of BULLSHIT where there are no end to how much stats you could get, a free player will always behind on Paid players, then yes it is a F2W as well.

 

when ure fighting them, u see their lvl below hp bar in the top middle, and u can tell when they have inferno clothes :)

[Yamyatos]

With your definition the game definitely is pay to win - even more so after the currency exchange is in the game and people are able to sell ncoin directly for gold and then just buy the moonwater stones with it directly. But i dont really see a problem with this. Nearly every game has a similar system. I dislike rng boxes, and i dont particulary like systems that allow you to get rich just because you spent lots of money, but as far as ncsoft knows where to stop (... got a bad feeling about this one) it can end well.

 

Oh and you still have to "work" for your equipment. You still need the weapons and stuff, even tho with the keys and stuff in the shop you will only need one run in most cases. So jeah, progression is insanely fast if you plan on spending toooons of money. But firstly... where's the fun.. and secondly, the prices of ncsoft are so incredible hilarious that only people who plan on spending 1000+++++ € on the game are likely to progress this way. And that's the people that pay for likely 80% of the server costs, so you cant really be mad at them.

F2P is a mess anyway. P2P doesnt make it, because people dont want to pay and games become deserted... but then we have games that have subscription and a shop that's far from being called "microtransactions" and people are still like "they need it to keep the servers running" T_T

I'd really like for someone to figure out a proper working buiseness modell. Well.. actually, i guess this way it's working - but only because people just buy stuff believing it has to be this way and the company would go bankrupt any other way. In general i think this will ruin some good games in the future, but i hope not this one :)

[Silmaria]

Just now, MaHaN said:

when ure fighting them, u see their lvl below hp bar in the top middle, and u can tell when they have inferno clothes :)

Inferno clothes is not lv 45. I remember winning 5 times straight at lv 28 easily and I thought these people suck so hard.

 

However when I got to lv 45, some of the fight, I barely even get to 1/3 of theirs hp. Most fight, i can win easy, some even barely lost 20% of hp. The problem comes with fighting against sin and summoner where I just get slaughter.

 

Sometimes I fought again sucky sin and summoner and manage to win in the end, but that is lucky if I found 1.

 

Like yesterday in tag team with 2 summoners, such slaughter with my party with 3 win streak before. Today is 2 sins and we lost easily despite the previous match we manage to win easy even with 1 summoner due to stun lock in the right time.

[Silmaria]

2 minutes ago, Yamyatos said:

With your definition the game definitely is pay to win - even more so after the currency exchange is in the game and people are able to sell ncoin directly for gold and then just buy the moonwater stones with it directly. But i dont really see a problem with this. Nearly every game has a similar system. I dislike rng boxes, and i dont particulary like systems that allow you to get rich just because you spent lots of money, but as far as ncsoft knows where to stop (... got a bad feeling about this one) it can end well.

 

Oh and you still have to "work" for your equipment. You still need the weapons and stuff, even tho with the keys and stuff in the shop you will only need one run in most cases. So jeah, progression is insanely fast if you plan on spending toooons of money. But firstly... where's the fun.. and secondly, the prices of ncsoft are so incredible hilarious that only people who plan on spending 1000+++++ € on the game are likely to progress this way. And that's the people that pay for likely 80% of the server costs, so you cant really be mad at them.

F2P is a mess anyway. P2P doesnt make it, because people dont want to pay and games become deserted... but then we have games that have subscription and a shop that's far from being called "microtransactions" and people are still like "they need it to keep the servers running" T_T

I'd really like for someone to figure out a proper working buiseness modell. Well.. actually, i guess this way it's working - but only because people just buy stuff believing it has to be this way and the company would go bankrupt any other way. In general i think this will ruin some good games in the future, but i hope not this one :)

The legendary weapon requires 1500 gold in fee alone. The buff stats is +60% crit, +50% def +50% pierce +50% evasion if I remember it right.

 

Then some even have in 10 hits deal 3000% damage.

 

I just hope these people who said it is not P2W play until then and not quit like many games before where they defend so hard.

 

Remember, ours version is 4 years behind in contents. When it was come out, nobody said it is P2W. However you can ask people who are playing Korea version now and they would say otherwise.

[Ninfu]

4 minutes ago, Yamyatos said:

With your definition the game definitely is pay to win - even more so after the currency exchange is in the game and people are able to sell ncoin directly for gold and then just buy the moonwater stones with it directly. But i dont really see a problem with this. Nearly every game has a similar system. I dislike rng boxes, and i dont particulary like systems that allow you to get rich just because you spent lots of money, but as far as ncsoft knows where to stop (... got a bad feeling about this one) it can end well.

 

Oh and you still have to "work" for your equipment. You still need the weapons and stuff, even tho with the keys and stuff in the shop you will only need one run in most cases. So jeah, progression is insanely fast if you plan on spending toooons of money. But firstly... where's the fun.. and secondly, the prices of ncsoft are so incredible hilarious that only people who plan on spending 1000+++++ € on the game are likely to progress this way. And that's the people that pay for likely 80% of the server costs, so you cant really be mad at them.

F2P is a mess anyway. P2P doesnt make it, because people dont want to pay and games become deserted... but then we have games that have subscription and a shop that's far from being called "microtransactions" and people are still like "they need it to keep the servers running" T_T

I'd really like for someone to figure out a proper working buiseness modell. Well.. actually, i guess this way it's working - but only because people just buy stuff believing it has to be this way and the company would go bankrupt any other way. In general i think this will ruin some good games in the future, but i hope not this one :)

 

Agree with you bit in here. Currency exchange causes similar effect as rngboxes but theres one major diffrence currency exchange does not generate "free" stuff for players to use.

 

Wiht boxes Ncsoft creates items that would otherwise obtained through game while currency exchange currency just switches place. Also with exchange while im against it players are more in control

[Silmaria]

17 minutes ago, Ninfu said:

 

Agree with you bit in here. Currency exchange causes similar effect as rngboxes but theres one major diffrence currency exchange does not generate "free" stuff for players to use.

 

Wiht boxes Ncsoft creates items that would otherwise obtained through game while currency exchange currency just switches place. Also with exchange while im against it players are more in control

I don't think it is similar, RNG box is a lottery type instead of a fixed price to get a costume and usually lottery would make more profits.

 

Currency exchange on other hand is fixed type to exchange for ingame currency from players.

 

One is lottery from game company for more profits while others is a fixed prices exchange with no gambling at all.

 

[Evechan]

Poor p2p players crying about cash shop, premium, wardrobe, blablabla, get a job XD

[Silmaria]

10 minutes ago, Evechan said:

Poor p2p players crying about cash shop, premium, wardrobe, blablabla, get a job XD

I just hope you are able to pay premium for years to come. When Black Desert and Tree of Savior out, I will move there and maybe checking on this game updates. (Sigh, still have 20k gems in Guild Wars 2 and barely anything worth to spend on).

 

Remember, this game is PvP game, without players, good luck enjoy the game. Seen your type in Age of BULLSHIT, first to quit the game and the server has such low population that most PvP events wouldn't have enough players to even be enjoyable.

[YuriScarlet]

25 minutes ago, Evechan said:

Poor p2p players crying about cash shop, premium, wardrobe, blablabla, get a job XD

lolz i dont understand. free to play players are the one crying all the time. Us pay to play players want more stuff with premium.

[GnatB]

3 hours ago, Naunet said:

 

I have a job with some amount of disposable income and no way would I ever pay money to take shortcuts around playing a game. It goes against the philosophy of... playing a video game. Not to mention it invariably ends with the in-game means of obtaining progress becoming more and more arduous, because the company then has a motivation to drive people towards the cash shop to purchase their "alternative".

 

Agreed.  It sends a clear message do developers/publishers that they can make more profit by intentionally making a game unfun, and then charging more to remove the "unfun".

[holanicky]

4 hours ago, lnvisibleOne said:

Your definition of p2w exactly describes 50 cap. The main hongmoon weapon can evolve into legendary but its max attack is lower than that of the legendary that is gotten 99% of the time through cash shop rng boxes which not only has an insane proc but also has a much higher damage cap. There are gems that are only obtained through the cash shop as well as pets which are only obtained through the cash shop that at max level give 16k hp and a good 1k defense. The average non cashing player on the Taiwan server averages about 60-65k HP at a reasonably high HM level. The average casher has 80k+ and the super p2w players I've seen with well over 100k HP (Max I've seen is 128k). The game isn't p2w yet but it most definitely is come 50 cap. Anyone in denial about that is merely uneducated on the subject or foolish. 

 

technically the pet can drop from the endgame dungeon, but it will probably take you a year to see it drop, if it dropped, if you dont have enough gold, gold buyers will outbid you.

[lnvisibleOne]

1 minute ago, holanicky said:

 

technically the pet can drop from the endgame dungeon, but it will probably take you a year to see it drop, if it dropped, if you dont have enough gold, gold buyers will outbid you.

So can dragon fountain boxes but same exact situation there.