Pay2win or not, opinions?

[DeKus]

Imho. "pay to win" is when there are better items available via money than via any other means. "Pay to progress faster" is imho. no "pay to win", hence even a 10% XP boost would make you "progress faster using money". A non paying player just has to play more time to achieve the same result.

Just my 10cents. :)

[Lurkios]

6 minutes ago, Zarec said:

 

By definition what you described is not pay2win.  Everyone still has the same advantages just different ways to obtain it. Of it gave you more power than someone could obtain in game then yes it is pay to win. 

 

Everythibf you described is not pay2win. 

... If you consider having a box that drops the upgrade materials for your weapons/accessories, one of the most expensive materials in the game and, at this point in time, rare enough that very, very few have gained the necessary amounts through any path but the cash-shop the "same advantage"...

 

Yeah, no. You are wrong. In a month or two when there's some possibility of other players having these things as well, not so much. Right now, pure p2w.

[Ernestasx]

I don't think it's pay to win. It doesn't feel like one, maybe the rng is a bit off, but yet i think no. I tried more than 10 stalker boxes, no stalker daggers, then got 2 in a row, so i think they are not cheating in rng, maybe bad luck :)

But i too hope they won't test the limits of paying. The only thing i see that could be added is purple items being tradeable, why not? There is no reason for us not to have that, since the drops and bidding sometimes strikes  a deep one :D

[Ebrietaz]

1 minute ago, Lurkios said:

 

... If you consider having a box that drops the upgrade materials for your weapons, one of the most expensive materials in the game and, at this point in time, rare enough that very, very few have gained the necessary amounts through any path but the cash-shop the "same advantage"...

 

Yeah, no. You are wrong.

I am sorry, but you quoted the wrong person. O:

[Lurkios]

1 minute ago, Ebrietaz said:

I am sorry, but you quoted the wrong person. O:

 

A quote quote... huh.

[Ebrietaz]

Just now, Lurkios said:

 

A quote quote... huh.

Yeah, very strange. I don't even know how I would accomplish that. I tip my (imaginary) hat to you. (:

 

[Takao]

12 minutes ago, Zarec said:

 

By definition what you described is not pay2win.  Everyone still has the same advantages just different ways to obtain it. Of it gave you more power than someone could obtain in game then yes it is pay to win. 

 

Everythibf you described is not pay2win. 

 

Ok for you nitpicker  pve is p2w ......... How would you feel if somebody farmed 5 month and other buy it in one day??? Well i would feel thats my 5 month was just not worth and i would not play the game cause its not moraly and basically not fair or  fun ...    Its not free to play but free to waste your time to never get even close to those who pay not  play......

[Ebrietaz]

1 minute ago, Takao said:

 

Ok for you nitpicker  pve is p2w ......... How would you feel if somebody farmed 5 month and other buy it in one day??? Well i would feel thats my 5 month was just not worth and i would not play the game cause its not moraly and basically not fair or  fun ...    Its not free to play but free to waste your time to never get even close to those who play......

Even though this isn't directed towards me, I am going to give you my input.

I would feel good that I spent a lot of time earning my items and gear without having to spend a penny.

I enjoy this game, and I am here to have fun so I wouldn't be bothered if someone else decides to toss a bunch of money at NCSoft to advance quicker.

I am sorry you feel like you would waste your time if that happened.

[Takao]

19 minutes ago, Ebrietaz said:

Even though this isn't directed towards me, I am going to give you my input.

I would feel good that I spent a lot of time earning my items and gear without having to spend a penny.

I enjoy this game, and I am here to have fun so I wouldn't be bothered if someone else decides to toss a bunch of money at NCSoft to advance quicker.

I am sorry you feel like you would waste your time if that happened.

 Ye but at this point they just skipping whole game they dont even play the game .... Not to mention ruined economy and whole pve content just for cheap money grab....

[Ninfu]

13 minutes ago, Zarec said:

 

Youre trying to make pay2win be all encompassing when it is not.  

 

If if you can get legendary weapons only in the store then yes it is pay2win. If you can get them in store and game then no by definition it is not pay2win. 

 

This is true and not true. P2W can also be defined to allow players instantly get strongest gear without any effort or with extremely minimal effort like now they can get in BnS.

 

Lets take BnS because we're talking about this game and thread is about it.

Currently i've no data from anyone else than myself so i use myself example and pls remember while this game been out few weeks now my played hours is lot more like +150hours so this gives better indicator than in few weeks and also pls remember that almost every mmorpg i've ever played i've been able to make tons of money and find ways to have steadi income and never been struggling with gold. So lets get started

 

So it took me like 125 hours get all my staff fully upgraded to last stage and now im just saving what ever i can for next patch and upgrade my stuff there. So in next patch ill be able to do things bit faster due this fact but players who havent played this much it will take bit more extra time.

 

So now lets look what those RNGboxes NCsoft does. Well first of all players are able to get everything important to fully evolve their weapons to max and if enough boxes are bought they can even get materials for next patch which means they're left with farming breakthrough weapons and new materials which they can buy from market with profits they're now making with this rngbox cricket..

 

To evolve from awekened infernal to true siren it takes only them to farm few epic weapons from game so it takes 1-5 runs for players get weapon from each version of poharan.

So total time spent 1-2hours getting weapons and rest can be bought from auction house with profits. So instead of playing the game and spending time in it players can now just instantly buy their way which is called P2W ofc everyone who doesnt spent any money can still get same weapon but it will take 10-100 times longer which cannot anymore be justified with pay to convience argument.

 

Then we come to next point. Lets now just assume someone spent thousands of those boxes. That player will have all the materials he needs to level up hongmoon weapon to last stage and even after that player has almost more than enough either start legendary weapon or fully upgrade it with minimal effor where it should take months of hard work and not just indirectly buying it from store.

 

Also another downside of this is economy is much worse state now than it was before and it will keep crashing.

One point is that if player really liked about that costume and wanted it player could be spending hundreds of euros / dollars for trying and not getting it

[Fifi2]

I know I will probably get flamed for this, but I am against the most common opinin here that says "It's not P2W, cause nothing that you can buy gives you extra stats". Yes, it does not give stats, but gives you a LOT of In Game money. And we all know that gold in the game gives you access to more items and miscs in the F5 Market, thus premiums actually get those "extra" stats. I mean atm there are summoners 3 level below me that have Blight Staffs and SS that are 200% more better tha mine.  I have Nearly ~90 silver and they have 3 gold in the worst case scenario. 

[Ango]

It may not be entirely p2w yet, but it won't be long before it is. The rng boxes completely screwed up the economy in a matter of hours.

Yes, you can still obtain everything you need ingame but it's getting more difficult to do so. Already, soulstones are worth a third of what they were worth two days ago. How are we supposed to make gold, if cash shop whales keep flooding the market with their endless supply of soulstones and transformation stones?

[Fifi2]

What is RNG box ? Are those Winter Frenzy stuff in hongmoon store? 

[Ninfu]

5 minutes ago, Fifi2 said:

What is RNG box ? Are those Winter Frenzy stuff in hongmoon store? 

Yup those

[Elera]

well I think it is pay to win only if u can get items with real money what u cant grind..  so I think it is totally not a pay to win game.. there is just some short cuts for ppl who don´t have so much time to grind :3 and for those guys who qq about how hard it is grind gold in this game, do some research first. Im getting about 50-80g /day as free to play. and guys who cry about brilliant keys, you know right that u can buy em with gold from auction house (2,5g atm)  and u also have change get em from daily reward boxes :3 

[Ebrietaz]

1 hour ago, Takao said:

 Ye but at this point they just skipping whole game they dont even play the game .... Not to mention ruined economy and whole pve content just for cheap money grab....

Well, that is life.

Those with a lot of disposible income have an advantage over others that don't have that.

How exactly did they ruin PvE content?

It hasn't ruined my PvE experience in the game.. o.O

[Takao]

2 minutes ago, Ebrietaz said:

Well, that is life.

Those with a lot of disposible income have an advantage over others that don't have that.

How exactly did they ruin PvE content?

It hasn't ruined my PvE experience in the game.. o.O

Do you even read there are people that are years before others already and if i say years i mean years of farming........I cant imagine i will farm two years to get gear one guy got instantly from boxes.....

[Takao]

28 minutes ago, Elera said:

well I think it is pay to win only if u can get items with real money what u cant grind..  so I think it is totally not a pay to win game.. there is just some short cuts for ppl who don´t have so much time to grind :3 and for those guys who qq about how hard it is grind gold in this game, do some research first. Im getting about 50-80g /day as free to play. and guys who cry about brilliant keys, you know right that u can buy em with gold from auction house (2,5g atm)  and u also have change get em from daily reward boxes :3 

Blatant lies u cant get normally 50-80g u must abuse something so its still not viable for all other people..... doesnt mean u have some knowledge of game everybody gets same amount of money.....

[Ebrietaz]

1 minute ago, Takao said:

Do you even read there are people that are years before others already and if i say years i mean years of farming........I cant imagine i will farm two years to get gear one guy got instantly from boxes.....

Yes, I am capable of reading and comprehending the information I do read.

Again, explain to me how this exactly ruins the actual PvE content in the game?

Just because another who has a lot of disposable income can toss it towards NCSoft to advance quicker does not mean it ruins the content in the game.

Their money, their choice to do whatever they want with it. You shouldn't let something trivial like that ruin your experience in a game.

 

[Ninfu]

6 minutes ago, Takao said:

Do you even read there are people that are years before others already and if i say years i mean years of farming........I cant imagine i will farm two years to get gear one guy got instantly from boxes.....

Maybe years is bit too much but worth of months of farming and in long term lets assume someone just bought 1000x boxes got enough money to buy and fully evolve legendary when its available. Quess what that legendary carries over to lvl 50 content.

 

That alone means that more players spent money on these boxes bigger their advantage is. And i want to remind you guys legendaries in this game require A LOT A LOT more farm than in many other games. Either player must be filthy rich like +40k or farm everyday for 10-15hours and even then depending when lvl 50 patch hit player might not reach fully evolved legendary just by farming 15hours/day

[Sylvaeril]

48 minutes ago, Ango said:

It may not be entirely p2w yet, but it won't be long before it is. The rng boxes completely screwed up the economy in a matter of hours.

Yes, you can still obtain everything you need ingame but it's getting more difficult to do so. Already, soulstones are worth a third of what they were worth two days ago. How are we supposed to make gold, if cash shop whales keep flooding the market with their endless supply of soulstones and transformation stones?

Find something else, they didnt make soulstones to help you make money!

[Takao]

1 minute ago, Ebrietaz said:

Yes, I am capable of reading and comprehending the information I do read.

Again, explain to me how this exactly ruins the actual PvE content in the game?

Just because another who has a lot of disposable income can toss it towards NCSoft to advance quicker does not mean it ruins the content in the game.

Their money, their choice to do whatever they want with it. You shouldn't let something trivial like that ruin your experience in a game.

 

It ruins economy for every single crafting . And it skips whole game basically to point u dont need to play anymore cause u will get better gear than everybody without even touching boss or farming anything, makes crafting, marketplace pointless....

[KaiserxKai]

On 2/4/2016 at 7:38 AM, Ambition said:

Okay so let me first start of with saying, i don't mind one single RNG Box but i have a bad feeling more of these boxes with bigger rewards will come in the near future, so that raises the next question.

 

I hear alot of people say : ''for me pay2win means if you can buy items that give you effect/combat stats that you cannot get the normal way ingame''

 

This is true, and i agree but i have a slightly different view on it, for me pay 2 win means, if people can simply buy the items f.e moonwaterstones through the RNG boxes, without having too put the same amount of work and time into your character as the ''normal'' people, in other words I have to spend 4-5 hours everday doing the dailies for 15gold so i can buy the items necessary to upgrade my gear, while a rich person will just buy 100 of those boxes and get a few stones and tons of soulstones and just buys his gear to the max. That is something really annoys me, the aspect i liked about this game is that you have to WORK hard for everything, so when you are maxed out people will look at you and think nice bro!  that gets completely taken away with these boxes.. meh

 

What do you guys think? i know there are more topics about this, not trying to hate but it really gives me a bad taste, i understand they need to make money, but there are more ways that lead to Rome. ;)

RNG boxes for cosmetics aren't P2W.

The problem is that people are mistaking this for P2W when in fact it's called 'bait-and-switch'.

 

Quote

bait-and-switch

noun

noun: bait-and-switch

1. the action (generally illegal) of advertising goods that are an apparent bargain, with the intention of substituting inferior or more expensive goods.

   "a bait-and-switch scheme"

 

Or effectively 'online gambling'.

[Elera]

7 minutes ago, Takao said:

Blatant lies u cant get normally 50-80g u must abuse something so its still not viable for all other people..... doesnt mean u have some knowledge of game everybody gets same amount of money.....

well any1 can use AH and any1 can also craft items. so yes any1 can do what I do 

[Takao]

2 minutes ago, Elera said:

well any1 can use AH and any1 can also craft items. so yes any1 can do what I do 

 u didint get it if u dont played game before u would never know what can make you money or how to make this much money so u will never make this money unless u have knowledge and if everybody did what u talking about u would have much less gold so this is pointless to argue about one guy who make money and comparing it with others that struggle basically cause they dont know how and its for sure not easy....... So stop being such a smartass and saying that everybody make 50-80 gold a day.......