Blade Masters and their unlimited amount of CCs?

[Viblo]

I am so fed up with Blade Masters in Arena. It's like NCSOFT suddenly noticed like, "Oh. BMs have sucked ass since the launch of the game!" 

So when BMs got their long-awaited fire build, they thought it was a good idea to make them the strongest class of the game.

And it shows. I know times when my BD, often referred to as one of the best damage dealers in the game, has way more AP and crit compared to a way-worse BM in the party who does way more.

But, that's in parties, so I don't mind. The problem is in 1v1s. 

I don't think I have ever won fairly against a Blade Master. "Oh, don't use your tab so soon!" I've tried, and after easily getting my HP to 10k, I tab, and they pull another CC out of their sleeves and *cricket* me up. 

Maybe this other forum post I read a while back is to go by, and maybe, just maybe, it should get some more attention.

FYI, yes, I play with a KFM in Arena.

 

[Asuramon]

After patch BD are so boring though.... 2 lightning draws + meme step pretty much kills anyone

[newbiez]

and what? nerf the bm again? if keep on nerfing the class...better just removed it from the game...kfm worst in arena? u kidding right?

[Moonstruck]

Last time I checked, we had 3 BMs in top 100, and there was around 10-20 BDs and 20 KFMs, which shows that at top potential, BMs aren't that OP tbh.

Also, timing your tab doesn't mean "use it 0.5sec before your stun goes away cause you've received a lot of damage". BMs have suffered a lot from this new patch already, so if you can't compete against them at all, then just learn a bit more about them I guess ?

[PKaBoo]

lol...

bm isn't op wdf lol

I play as bd... and they maybe became bit more annoyin now.... but they still very beatable, more easily on some classes than others I admit lol

they always were and always will b ... easiest class to go against for most classes ! XD

I main a bd and I also got a sin, kfm, summy and a fm that I play in arena ...

I'm not expert at fm just yet since haven't played fm for a LONG TIME XD

but bd sin kfm and summy...

they go VERY EASILY vs a bm lol !

summy goes easily vs most classes tbh xD so won't even mention that 1 lol

but vs bd... bm is quite easy u just need learn their moves and anticipate their next move lol whenever they block DO NOT HIT XD (to some it might b obvious... to others... idk lol ) for a bd we have a skill that cancels their block skill ~ easy win o.o just work on your reflexes to dodge their moves... spin whenever u think they gonna CC u lol I always try start with a stun or daze move to flip em over in the air and from there the way to win is quite easy... but some anticipate that and the fight goes against me lol

just practice A LOT if you have a bm friend that is GOOD at pvp... spar them ! don't say some class is op coz you can't handle it :c

if you'd come QQ bout a summy or a fm... I'd get it coz you cant do jack vs these two if fm goes mainly icey (which is the way to go vs most classes xD )

and vs summy... unless you have tons of CCs and dodges... like aoe CC ... and lots of ways to dodge... like for example a kfm and a sin has... most classes won't b able win vs a scummy coz it's simply like fighting TWO players while it's "technically" 1v1... which is utterly impossible -.- especially if you have lags... you can't even move and whenever u try avoid the cat and aim for the summy you find urself kd... pinned to the ground ... till the fight is over ._.

 

the key in pvp is PRACTICE ! even say in arena all day... either with randoms or just go 1v1 vs whoever just practice and learn to time your CCs right.. learn each class you go against.. study their combos o.o

I haven't been pvping much lately... so I'm not even gold anymore :( used to b gold on all my toons, 1 even was close to plat at some point but was a long time ago... ;-;

you just need practice lol

[hwalien]

BM had just about same number of CC as before.

you just didn't see BM using so many CC since we use to kill you so quick.

 

[FrozenB]

The most OP skill from BM is HM Z. If you burnt your tab escape already and didn't iframe their HM Z, it is already the end of the match. I think HM Z put you in stun/paralyze condition for 4-5 seconds. That's enough time to kill a person with RMB fire blade dance. If not enough, just do a quick stun to extend the damage for another 2-3 seconds.

 

Another problem for BM is their block skill, which doesn't cost any Chi at all. They can spam all day until people use defense-break skill on them. I don't know why people call BD's spin is cancer, I think BM block skill is more cancer. At least BD's spin has chi consumption per spin. BM can just block all day until their other skills CD recovered. Also, I don't think why people said BM block skill is only frontal. I tried many times to q/e behind BM and tried to knock him down while he was using block skill. 100% failure rate + I got counter stun sometimes too. I am pretty sure they didn't even turn around after i q/e behind them.

[hwalien]

block is frontal but from what ive heard there are so many ppl who uses auto target or what ever which makes the system think that your still facing your target. so its just like summoner running away from you using a counter. no matter where you hit them from your hitting into their counter. but this has not proven. 

[Raylight]

12 hours ago, PKaBoo said:

lol...

bm isn't op wdf lol

I play as bd... and they maybe became bit more annoyin now.... but they still very beatable, more easily on some classes than others I admit lol

they always were and always will b ... easiest class to go against for most classes ! XD

I main a bd and I also got a sin,

You main bd and sin. Everything you say is irrelevant to the thread. 

 

Back to op. Yes BM are cancer for anything that is not the typical op shit (WL/SUM/BD/SIN) They deal 80% of your hp by spamming lmb on a cc. Just another class that can burst you down without any effort. They have 3 cc's that goes thru counters just to make sure its not too hard for them to do anything. Just add them to your class carried folder.

 

 

[PKaBoo]

lol....

seriously? XD

why kfm isn't on that list then? coz kfm is cancer too :D

and bm is easy once you know what to expect from the class lol

after learning bout their block skill when u knock em on the ground... lol I don't hit them till they stand again and doing anything but blocking XD

[FrozenB]

If BM block skill consume the same amount of chi per use like BD/Destroyer's spin, then I wouldn't complain about it.

 

I think that block skill from BM/KFM is the only skill that has no chi consumption and spammable in this game.

[Suna]

1 hour ago, FrozenB said:

If BM block skill consume the same amount of chi per use like BD/Destroyer's spin, then I wouldn't complain about it.

 

I think that block skill from BM/KFM is the only skill that has no chi consumption and spammable in this game.

Those classes have totally different skill set, you can not compare these classes. It is bit different if you can run with 60% extra speed and spin 360, than if you need stand still hold 180 block that can be guard breaked with multiple different skills. You dont even get much rewarded if you block enemy attack. Fm and wl can spam their block same way without any chi cost as well if you think bm/kfm is only ones. Summoner, sin, sf have longer cd on their counter, but their skill set offer something else that help them in neutral game. 

[FrozenB]

1 hour ago, Suna said:

Those classes have totally different skill set, you can not compare these classes. It is bit different if you can run with 60% extra speed and spin 360, than if you need stand still hold 180 block that can be guard breaked with multiple different skills. You dont even get much rewarded if you block enemy attack. Fm and wl can spam their block same way without any chi cost as well if you think bm/kfm is only ones. Summoner, sin, sf have longer cd on their counter, but their skill set offer something else that help them in neutral game. 

I didn't complain about WL and FM block because they are real frontal block. I can q/e behind them and knock them down 100%.

 

However, for BM, I don't know why people said it is frontal. Near 90% of the time, I got either countered or stunned after I q/e behind them and press knockdown skill. Please don't tell me that the BM player can turn around 180 degree within 0.5 second. I feel that for the first 1-2 seconds while BM is using block skill, it is 360 degree and in the last 1 seconds before block skill end, it is 180 frontal. It is just my thought.

[Suna]

12 minutes ago, FrozenB said:

I didn't complain about WL and FM block because they are real frontal block. I can q/e behind them and knock them down 100%.

 

However, for BM, I don't know why people said it is frontal. Near 90% of the time, I got either countered or stunned after I q/e behind them and press knockdown skill. Please don't tell me that the BM player can turn around 180 degree within 0.5 second. I feel that for the first 1-2 seconds while BM is using block skill, it is 360 degree and in the last 1 seconds before block skill end, it is 180 frontal. It is just my thought.

If you mean parry version of block, it is actually 360,  but it have 24 second cooldown so you can not spam it. But ya kfm and bm both have normaly 180 block. maybe you are just slow and they have time turn around. 

[Moonstruck]

Why would BM's block need a CD or chi consumption ? It's not a counter that stuns you, it puts us in a vulnerable position since most classes have a guard break and a lot of class can prevent you from blocking. The only reason why someone would cry about our block is because they just don't know their class' counters against it...

[Zekken]

4 hours ago, Moonstruck said:

Why would BM's block need a CD or chi consumption ? It's not a counter that stuns you, it puts us in a vulnerable position since most classes have a guard break and a lot of class can prevent you from blocking. The only reason why someone would cry about our block is because they just don't know their class' counters against it...

It sounds like a counter argument to those people always saying that BD/destroyer can spin all day. BD/destroyer can't spin all day because it requires chi. On the other hand, BM and KFM can spam block/counter all day long since it does not require chi.  

 

Yes, all classes have guard breaks but it's mostly just limited to one skill on a fairly long cooldown.  Anyone who knows how to use block canceling effectively will rarely, if ever, get caught by a guard break.  The guard break skill will still go off and not cause the ability to be sealed due to block cancelling. Then the skill still goes on cd leaving the BM/KFM free from the threat of a guard break for the next 24 or so seconds.

 

I'm a scrub at PVP, so I'm sure there is an effective counter play to this but I have yet to figure it out.  I can understand why the poster feels the need for a cd or chi cost for blocking.  That being said, there are plenty of PVP players (variety of classes) at high rankings that have no problem with beating BMs.

[hwalien]

depends on what you play. for some class block is harder to deal with but for some parry spin is a nightmare.

for some block or spin they don't care. you just have to find a way to deal with it with the class your playing with.

 

1 hour ago, Zekken said:

BD/destroyer can't spin all day because it requires chi

true for destroyer but for BD i can almost spin all day if i wanted to.

 

edit : i have all 9 class. out of block, counter and spin. i find block easiest to deal then spin followed by counter.

 

[newbiez]

u guys realize everytime they change the skills its will effect pve too not just pvp...imagine if bm out of chi and need to block the boss atk in pve...erm

[hwalien]

we use F draw stance block in PVE anyways. but if this needs chi as well... bns might actually need to come up with a healing class cus we be meat tanking half the time.

i don't even want to think about LFG channel filled with "LF healer"

[Zekken]

I have all classes leveled except for BM and KFM which would explain why I have trouble with them. I find spin classes to be pretty easy to deal with as they are vulnerable to KD. I find it difficult to find a window of opportunity between block canceling spam, hm block, cyclone, ss, q/e spamming, and the few other iframes BM has.  It can be difficult to get behind BM fast enough with some classes to negate block.

[Moonstruck]

As a BM, I never spam my block, since spamming your block makes you vulnerable. I mean, yeah, we can spam ir, but why would we ? Our block is only frontal, makes us vulnerable to guard break and only prevent some skills doing low damage. Thing is, most of the high dps skills can go through our block... What's strong is our cyclone, which has a 24sec CD and our HM Block, which has a 45sec CD.

To be honest, the only class against which our block gives us a big advantage is FM, but they've got ways to deal with it.

[Moonstruck]

I mean, give us a nice way to counter like KFM or BD and we'll only use our block for PVE, it's that simple.

23 hours ago, Zekken said:

Anyone who knows how to use block canceling effectively will rarely, if ever, get caught by a guard break.

You could also say "Anyone who knows about block canceling will rarely miss their guard break", since it's pretty much all about ping and prediction. BMs ways not to get caught by guard break is as simple as try not to use block. Only block when you really need to...

 

Just try this : Use a BM in a spar with a friend, tell him to randomly use a guard break mixed in with skills you can block. Let's see how well you'll be able to cancel your block before it gets broken :)

[Zekken]

2 hours ago, Moonstruck said:

You could also say "Anyone who knows about block canceling will rarely miss their guard break", since it's pretty much all about ping and prediction.

I'm not sure I can agree with that statement. Approach skills that have guard break seem to have an inherent disadvantage against block canceling. The guard break skill is only useable when someone is guarding. You can press the skill right away and still miss guard break because guard can be canceled comfortably well before the approach skill connects. Most destroyers don't seem to spec guard break at all against KFM/BM. The only time this isn't an issue is when you are pretty much right next to the person which rarely ever occurs at higher elo as no sane person would throw up block right in front of someone.

 

i wouldn't even mind block canceling if guard break effect always took effect after the skill was used. That would probably make things too easy for the opponent then. I wouldn't mind if they increased the skill approach speed on guard break skills though.

 

On the other hand, I'm not so stubborn to think that my opinion is fact. It's entirely possible that this is just a silver/low gold scrub problem. If so, I wouldn't mind advice on how to approach this issue.

[hwalien]

last night in arena in mix of cc and all i accidentally paralysis my opponent who had like 3% HP.

i knew this person had no other escape skill but tab so i used block right after kick but i guess my stupid finger click LMB or something.

good thing this person tab out of it lol. i guess he/she panicked as much as i did.