Make KFM great again!

[htdexhdfg]

SF is more ping reliant than KFM for the higher dps air combos. Also hurts when setting up chi recovery using Iron shoulder (F). You almost never see it pop up with high ping.
Windstorm (F) casted without an airborne target can possibly lose many hits because it's time limited not hit count and the server does not adjust for the time lost due to poor latency.

Same with Dragonfist from Frost Storm/KingFIST. Frost storm itself is fine but Dragonfist again uses a counter which loses dps to latency.
The same can be applied to Burning Tundra. The window for recasting is 5s for for RMB hits. To get those 4 RMB hits you need to cancel back and forth with LMB for focus if you spec into the higher cost Snowball (RMB) which heals and procs chill only under tundra.

 

[RuneKey]

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UClv-03-UmDgnDZDCWmLLH5A

does this guy play the same game or ne ?

[ARC1276]

On 11/26/2016 at 8:08 AM, mephisto9466 said:

Ok so this is a suggestion to make KFM great in pvp, make it the 1v1 class that its meant to be. 

Do you all remember that one skill that let you jump into the air and land with a punch into the opponents stomach? (i never knew what that skill was called, however i saw it in the KFM beta video). I suggest that they bring that skill back as part of the grapple tree, and make to where "If used on knocked down opponents, it disables ALL escape skills for 10 or 15 seconds", have it on a relatively long cd, like 30 seconds or so. This skill ALONE would add an ample amount of power to the kfm kit. Before all of you NON KFM mains  chew my head off, let me put this in perspective. Warlock, literally have an immunity, nuff said. Force master, literally chain cc, their combo cc-damage-cc-damage-cc-damage, as a kfm if you get close they have this damn force push skill (i dont know what its called but its bs) that prevents any kfm from staying close. If you get close as a kfm, they push you away, then cc you. Soul fighter, i dont know enough about them, so i wont complain or praise them. Summoner....if i actually have to explain why this class is op af, then you havent played enough pvp >.> Destroyer, literally CC immunity except for knockdowns, and they even have a knockdown immunity. Assassin, invisibility, invisibility, invisibility, knockdown/damage/everything but pull resistance in invisibility, KFM has to target peeps to do anything, cant target what you dont see.

 

Everyone can say that KFM has great all in's, and it does, kfm does have GREAT all in's only if the opponent messes up in some way and burns both their escapes. But, with some classes if they burn all their escapes they still have a cc immunity somewhere in their kit that doesnt require you to be close or to target your opponent. See my issue here? 

 

This is why i suggest to introduce that one move (the one where you jump and land a fist in the opponents stomach) back into the game as a new skill with a new effect, 10 to 15 seconds of no escape if used on knocked down opponent, and replace it with grapple.

You clearly don't seem to know what you're talking about. As a player who has a KFM who's gold in 1v1, a FM who's in top 30s for 1v1, and a SF who's not even level 50 yet but still in gold, I can easily say that your comments on FM V KFM, is bullshit. In all my time playing as a KFM, the one class I never had to worry about was FM. I basically won 99 out of 100 times. The 1 missing being for a FM who actually knows how to deal with KFMs. Now I don't have enough ping to pull off a perfect 100-0 combo on a KFM but let me tell you this: it's not fun.

 

Yes, even with my double escapes, a KFM can still kick my ass if they're skilled enough or assholic enough (and there are plenty of those). Like for example: A KFM hitting Q or E as you hit tab....They resist it, and you get stunned...again. But having played a KFM I can and will express HOW *cricket*ING PISSED OFF I GET! 

 

 

The KFM is almost as hard as FMs! Maybe easier but FM is bottom of the barrel right now! (Just look at the rankings). KFMs have to deal with stupidly high damage from BMs, their retarded slowing effect and spam of scummoners, the constant defense disable of SFs, and the immunity to CCs that BDs Des and WLs get. Like I don't even bother CCing WLs BDs or Des on my FM because I know that I won't be able to follow up if I force tab them. Granted KFMs stand a much better chance than FMs do in higher rankings, but it still doesn't change how stupidly hard it is for KFMs.

 

 

The only issue with my tirade is: It's suppose to be. KFMs have the potential to be devastating in higher levels of play, but it has to be because you have the skills to pull it off. KFMs requires the most amount of skills in the game (second to FM who gets hard countered by KFMs). So ya, they really don't need buffs. It's just that classes like Assassins, Summoners, and BMs need a nerf. 

[Valiant]

6 hours ago, ARC1276 said:

You clearly don't seem to know what you're talking about. As a player who has a KFM who's gold in 1v1, a FM who's in top 30s for 1v1, and a SF who's not even level 50 yet but still in gold, I can easily say that your comments on FM V KFM, is bullshit. In all my time playing as a KFM, the one class I never had to worry about was FM. I basically won 99 out of 100 times. The 1 missing being for a FM who actually knows how to deal with KFMs. Now I don't have enough ping to pull off a perfect 100-0 combo on a KFM but let me tell you this: it's not fun.

 

Yes, even with my double escapes, a KFM can still kick my ass if they're skilled enough or assholic enough (and there are plenty of those). Like for example: A KFM hitting Q or E as you hit tab....They resist it, and you get stunned...again. But having played a KFM I can and will express HOW *cricket*ING PISSED OFF I GET! 

 

 

The KFM is almost as hard as FMs! Maybe easier but FM is bottom of the barrel right now! (Just look at the rankings). KFMs have to deal with stupidly high damage from BMs, their retarded slowing effect and spam of scummoners, the constant defense disable of SFs, and the immunity to CCs that BDs Des and WLs get. Like I don't even bother CCing WLs BDs or Des on my FM because I know that I won't be able to follow up if I force tab them. Granted KFMs stand a much better chance than FMs do in higher rankings, but it still doesn't change how stupidly hard it is for KFMs.

 

 

The only issue with my tirade is: It's suppose to be. KFMs have the potential to be devastating in higher levels of play, but it has to be because you have the skills to pull it off. KFMs requires the most amount of skills in the game (second to FM who gets hard countered by KFMs). So ya, they really don't need buffs. It's just that classes like Assassins, Summoners, and BMs need a nerf. 

Hey Heya, Wait wait

FM and Destroyer match is 50:50 don't tell me now that Destroyer counter you, Since Destroyer always end up unable to charge toward you or bypass your counter

 

So don't come with the word I can\t cc Destroyer ,Since they will end up without focus or you can't cc you

[Shuchin]

Ok I don't want to jump onto the bandwagon "does KFM need a boost or not", since the answer will be different for every person and even objective ways of deciding it will depend entirely on the perspective from where you judge (like do we want to equalize high end tournament play, or high end online lo play, or overall median ranking etc).

 

But, if one wanted to boost KFM for whatever reason, or combine a boost with a nerf for some other aspect, I would greatly like to see the requirement of Awakening be reduced from 3 to 2 stacks of agility.

 

KFM lack a true long cool down invincibility shield skill, which is perfectly fine considering the playstyle of the class. But Awakening has the potential to be a fitting substitute for that, as it is reactive and requires successful dodges to trigger.

Only in arena PvP, your iframes are too valuable to use with the aim in mind to achieve Awakening, as you sacrifice your hard iframes for a soft 100% evasion.

 

So lowering the trigger requirement to two resists would bring this very interesting protection effect back into play for 1v1 and 3v3, and also make it more punishing for opponents to hit into the Q/E iframes of KFM. Right now the KFM benefit from this mistake through CHI and a small heal, which does sum up over the whole match, but it is not comparable to the punishment you receive e.g. when hitting into a deflect.

 

Just an idea. ^_^

[Featherine]

Considering every pierce defense ability ignores awakening and, heck, even normal skills do sometimes for no reason at all I doubt it would change anything sadly.

 

KFMs just need better defensive options, the rest is fine honestly. Some things like:

*Note I don't want ALL of that, but getting one or two of those would make things a hell of a lot better.

 

- Make our block skill not have retarded giant gaps between each use, seriously, anyone that doesn't play from the other end of the World and has a modicum of PvP experience can catch you BETWEEN your counters reliably. Especially easy for classes with instant rushes/CCs like... Well, everyone not Destroyer or BM. Let's not even mention Elbow Smash since the gap is almost a whole freaking second. I'd actually trade the ability to move for no gaps in our block, I'd even trade part of the immunity. That's how annoying this thing is when you start to get into Platinum, EVERYONE catches you between blocks, not even factoring all the guard breaking skills.

- Move Ice flower to another button for *cricket*s sake, or move the jump. Let's say you're facing a BM at a distance, you SEE him use HM Z, what are your solutions ? SS or Ice flower, except in order to use Ice Flower and NOT the jump you have to do a 180° which is bloody retarded for a defensive skill. Not to mention all those times where you want to ice but due to the delay you end up instantly tabbing... These days I end up using jump Tab asap solely to NOT have to worry about this problem.

- Increase Tiger Strike range to 5m. Now, this is an offensive buff but giving us that would allow us to play out of Tab range reliably, like pretty much everyone in the game can via other means (emberstomp, ranged damage, 5hit immunity skills etc...). Wouldn't exactly be overpowered since the chi cost is still super high.

- Allow us to use Avenging Fist without a successful counter. Now that's apparently something we'll get, which is good, with the immunity tree (which is apparently the only tree that stays anyway) if you pay attention you'll be able to use it when you see BM's HM Z coming, or any defense breaking skill, or to cover up the retarded gap between counters. 

- Make our Q/E work like every other Q/E in the game, aka allow it to work even if we're not facing the opponent... Seriously, we're supposed to have the best Q/E in the game but I believe BM's is better. Theirs have half the CD, can even be used without CD if they're in draw stance which is triggered by a flock of skills, theirs is super fast, fast enough that if you're slow on the reaction you can get back-stunned (good BD's do that a lot too) and works even if they have their *cricket*ing back turned on you. Yeah yeah sure 1sec immunity bla bla, doesn't matter if you can't even use it because the guy flash-stepped to your back and stun flickered you...

 

See, there's no need to give us ridiculously OP stuff like triple kick working on ground counter (lolsin'sdoesworkongroundthough) or a second escape or a bubble whatever. I'd just like to be able to defend myself properly.

 

Also, if it's true we're getting a huge Burst skill a la Lightning Draw (although slightly lower damage, if I understood the values correctly) available on CC'd opponents that will be nice because it will allow us to do damage while taking anti-tab measures (something like CC -> burst skill -> aerial, might even be able to sneak in a shin kick if the skill executes fast enough) but I'm skeptical because the translation said the CD was 3 seconds, which sounds really OP, or it meant the casting time is 3 seconds which would make it unusable anyway... So better wait for confirmation on that one.

[htdexhdfg]

Just regarding your counter/block from 1 is this tree inaccurate?
Is the skill disliked for some reason?
Comparing it to SF I know a few who'd pay 200g if that was a HM skill for us lol

 

 

 

 

[Aloth]

1 hour ago, htdexhdfg said:

Just regarding your counter/block from 1 is this tree inaccurate?
Is the skill disliked for some reason?
Comparing it to SF I know a few who'd pay 200g if that was a HM skill for us lol

 

 

 

 

Sure, just give us your self defense chi and dodges, cuz it's not like SF has other means of avoiding damage besides countering. Also, take note of the fact that KFM elbow costs focus to use. Lastly, most KFM's I know use the HM Elbow Smash because it's a better offensive skill even if it has a 1.3 second cooldown.

 

As for making KFM great again, it's really quite simple.

 

1. Make Flurry, Guiding Fist, and Avenging Fist work on airborne targets. I'm sick and tired of having the worst opener in the game.

2. Nerf Q/E on other classes or allow KFM to use them when facing any direction - BM-style. Also, give lower skill stages of Q/E an 8 second CD instead of 16. Remove the agility stacks and healing from the 8 second version, since I don't even care about max agility against any half decent opponent; just keep the 1 second iframe.

3. Move Ice Guard or TAB leap to a different button. Who even designed it like this? Did he ever step into arena once? Not only do you have to turn away from the opponent when he's in the range of Flying Slam, but there's also a delay when the game switches between the slam and the guard. Not to mention blowing your tab when you want to use your best defensive ability. KFM's tell me how many times this has happened: SS is down and opponent is about to launch a ranged attack that you need to iframe. You turn away to ice guard yourself, but you no longer see your opponent so you get CC'd a split second before you press TAB; boom, there goes your second wind. It's infuriating.

4. Flying Slam Stage 3 to 45sec instead of 1 min CD, or keep it 1 min but give us an iframe during use. Seriously, 1 min cd for a skill that can be dodged by holding down Q/E... What a joke. At the moment it's only useful for chaining aerials against a CC'd target.

5. Remove the knockback effect from Daze Comet Strike and Iron Shoulder (lower Iron Shoulder daze duration to 2 seconds or keep it the same but increase the CD). Wall hugging anyone?

6. Make Tiger Strike Stage 3 proc Pivot Kick/Hellfire Kick or allow us to use Triple Kick on ground counters.

[htdexhdfg]

You have our Q, E, and SS our HM elbowsmash got a slight tweak compared to yours but for that resist 6s cd
1 focus in vs 3 focus return = +2.
Your only issue there is "cannot counter while 0 focus"

I still argue that you have a sizeable amount of offense with 3RF

[ngringo]

  Well, im a Kfm... I have playing a lot, but in the same way i study the other characters escapes skills, and defenses. I note that for example, Sin have a daze, stun, unconsious escape with a flash lighting that only takes "12sec" (KFM have a escape of grap that only take "1:30 min" ) to charge again, the escape from knock down that all the caracters have 12 sec to, also  invisibility with evades  like 1 sec. and a black rose that teleports there when he is in danger ! 1 counter atack 6 sec. and if doesnt work, counter counter atttack with stun or daze. also you have to a instant spider web with out coldown where you no have other skill than second wind. to escape. So Kfm need to be seriously with the use of his second wind becouse is the only escape skill that he have.. and grap doesnt mathers becouse Sin dont grap. Thats for Sin.
  Now go to Destroyer, if you fight with a gold destroyer is to dificult  escape from him ´cose he have te power of whirwind that resist and also Daze ! "2 Dazes" or "stun" dont remeber. your best friend is Q/E but the coldown for this is 16sec. really ??? so  you cant stun, daze and the same way knockdown cose resist everything, a super SKill !!! (KFM dont have a super skill never have it)  you cant use Searing palm stage 1 or 2, but belive me  always catch you and the time for use searing palm is like 1,30 or 2sec.,  you have to be like flash ! and precise.  
  Now take a look for Warloks ! is really amazing the power of his blue dragons... also he have a blocks but this skills is no problem. the problem is that tehy have 2 skill that resist (5sec.)all and also Soulbron that also resist like 5 sec or 6. obviously the best friend es Q/E again but takes 16 sec to charge again.. then warloks have two escapes from knockdown and grap that only take 9 and 12 sec. in that order. you can se here     https://bnstree.com/tree/WL     look the skill bastion and sanctum.  More than precise you need to be. and i reiterate we have second wind and blocks but stage 1 resist daze  and stage 4 resist damenge but dont resist knockdown.. thats the weak point. you have to use ice guard if not you are dead. But takes 36 sec. so KFm have second wind (1)36 sec., Ice(2)36sec., Q/E(3)16sec., and also blocks(4)1.3sec. also escape from grap(5) 1,30 min. But dont have resist from knockdown and dont have a escape skill  from this like sin or destroyer and warlok or FM or Summoner.  (well summoner gives 60 % of life to his patner and also can health his self and the patner can healt his self to, like a innmortal, Drain life, stack and also grap and second wind is the only way to escape. so becareful)
  In my opinion we need no more skill (but is time to fix Kfm), i mean to have more less coldown in the skills. ice gard (36sec to 30 sec.) Q/E (16 to 12 sec. is a idea ) emit frost (1,30 min to  1 min or less 50 sec.  OR LEss !!!!!)  and also we need a second knockdown escape like the other characters !!!. Thats my opinion i know Kfm master is difficult to use but in pvp we have disadvantage with some characters.) And this game have to be more balanced for a fair competition.
 

[doitztard]

On 12/15/2016 at 9:50 PM, ngringo said:

  Well, im a Kfm... I have playing a lot, but in the same way i study the other characters escapes skills, and defenses. I note that for example, Sin have a daze, stun, unconsious escape with a flash lighting that only takes "12sec" (KFM have a escape of grap that only take "1:30 min" ) to charge again, the escape from knock down that all the caracters have 12 sec to, also  invisibility with evades  like 1 sec. and a black rose that teleports there when he is in danger ! 1 counter atack 6 sec. and if doesnt work, counter counter atttack with stun or daze. also you have to a instant spider web with out coldown where you no have other skill than second wind. to escape. So Kfm need to be seriously with the use of his second wind becouse is the only escape skill that he have.. and grap doesnt mathers becouse Sin dont grap. Thats for Sin.
  Now go to Destroyer, if you fight with a gold destroyer is to dificult  escape from him ´cose he have te power of whirwind that resist and also Daze ! "2 Dazes" or "stun" dont remeber. your best friend is Q/E but the coldown for this is 16sec. really ??? so  you cant stun, daze and the same way knockdown cose resist everything, a super SKill !!! (KFM dont have a super skill never have it)  you cant use Searing palm stage 1 or 2, but belive me  always catch you and the time for use searing palm is like 1,30 or 2sec.,  you have to be like flash ! and precise.  
  Now take a look for Warloks ! is really amazing the power of his blue dragons... also he have a blocks but this skills is no problem. the problem is that tehy have 2 skill that resist (5sec.)all and also Soulbron that also resist like 5 sec or 6. obviously the best friend es Q/E again but takes 16 sec to charge again.. then warloks have two escapes from knockdown and grap that only take 9 and 12 sec. in that order. you can se here     https://bnstree.com/tree/WL     look the skill bastion and sanctum.  More than precise you need to be. and i reiterate we have second wind and blocks but stage 1 resist daze  and stage 4 resist damenge but dont resist knockdown.. thats the weak point. you have to use ice guard if not you are dead. But takes 36 sec. so KFm have second wind (1)36 sec., Ice(2)36sec., Q/E(3)16sec., and also blocks(4)1.3sec. also escape from grap(5) 1,30 min. But dont have resist from knockdown and dont have a escape skill  from this like sin or destroyer and warlok or FM or Summoner.  (well summoner gives 60 % of life to his patner and also can health his self and the patner can healt his self to, like a innmortal, Drain life, stack and also grap and second wind is the only way to escape. so becareful)
  In my opinion we need no more skill (but is time to fix Kfm), i mean to have more less coldown in the skills. ice gard (36sec to 30 sec.) Q/E (16 to 12 sec. is a idea ) emit frost (1,30 min to  1 min or less 50 sec.  OR LEss !!!!!)  and also we need a second knockdown escape like the other characters !!!. Thats my opinion i know Kfm master is difficult to use but in pvp we have disadvantage with some characters.) And this game have to be more balanced for a fair competition.
 

Ive played pretty much every class to 50 but?? what are you talking about 12 seconds escape for sin 12seconds escape for wl? 1 min 30 for grab escape alright but you got an additional tab escape on top of that, some classes dont even have that for example destroyer, are you talking about Im sorry to inform you but every class's tab escape or 2 if you have a familiar is 36 seconds. I dont exactly remember the second escape for wl which btw can only happen when there is a thrall spawned is definitely longer than 36 though. Sin has a second escape which is his lotus which has  cd of 30 seconds but he must first set down his lotus which btw disappears after 20 seconds so he will have to put it down again during that time. instant spider web? it has a cd btw  And also kfm is already extremely good against one certain class (im talking about you summoner) buffing his defense would just make kfm have a hey day no need to try since cat will naturally cause kfm resist from his auto attack unless summoner continously recall which would waste an immunity in the process. You quote on quote talk balance yet refuse to acknowledge your own classes strengths

 

[Dedicated199]

I'm not going to go into the strengths and weaknesses of KFM but as a main of one I would like to see a buff or nerf of other classes. I'm sick of feeling underpowered compared to other classes, there even aren't many KFM's and I got told that's because they're weaker than other classes and have a higher learning curve, which is true imo.

[Backstabpuss]

In have a sin lvl 50 HM9, Summ HM7 and KFM HM6, also did some arenas on BM and WL.

 

I didnt reach gold on all of them exept Summoner and once with Sin, but I dont pvp that hard. Anyway I still do 30-40 matches a season any of them and I can tell you for sure tha KFM is the only class alongside FM that have all the tools to destroy any class.....BUT...

...yes it has a high learning curve, needs perfect timing, ping not higher than 70-80, and vast knowledge of all other classes. Ofc you gona lose some games due to many things...but if you beat someone 8/10 matches it means that you are better than him, or that the class i overpowered. With KFM you cant rely on that. Anything exept your skill and knowlwdge wont matter...cuz you dont have range, endless spins, hides, or 2 button spams, but you have many skills to avoid , counter, and punish. 

The way you manage these three will decide your encounter. KFM dsnt have a favourite class against cuz it can lose vs any of them, but also any class should fear KFM. One mistake vs good KFM-s (FM can do 2) is game over and experienced players know it. Ofc there are classes that are harder than some other.

 

From my experience as noob KFM , i find FM-s to be a pain, cuz they also have all the tools vs any class. Bad FMs are easy to deal with, good ones prolly can roflstomp if you make one mistake. Unfortunately this cant be said as KFM. Although mistakes can be easily punished as KFM, FM-s have more tools than other classes to deal with KFM.s....if they use them properly. 

As KFM I think that easiset classes to deal with are other melee classes, but ofc this is not always the case and depends on many aspects. On my Sin I find it almost impossible to deal with Blade Cancers, while have much easier time with FMs and Soulfighters. Also Destroyers can be a real pain.

 

As for a class that needs a nerf or some tweaks its defintely BD.

Whole design of this class is laughable, and without a doubt its the easiest class to play. BM might need a dmg nrf...but its BD that needs a complete new design of skills. 

Just go 6vs6 and see what I mean. Usually you need 4 ppl to kill a Blade dancer....and that if they arent melees.

[RuneKey]

22 hours ago, Dedicated199 said:

I'm not going to go into the strengths and weaknesses of KFM but as a main of one I would like to see a buff or nerf of other classes. I'm sick of feeling underpowered compared to other classes, there even aren't many KFM's and I got told that's because they're weaker than other classes and have a higher learning curve, which is true imo.

omg this made me laugh so hard x'D

my sub kfm was plat and it got ol to collect daily logins and has breeze and did 35 floor ToI now try doing that with 400ms and 19fps x'D oh wait you already main 1 .ahahaahah i am not really one of those people who says 'git gud' but have you ever seen fm/wl play against a summoner ?x'D like really alll they can think of is goddamit y y y...then comes a kfm/bm with a half hp drop in 1 stun x'D