Since Hongmoon Pills and Skillbooks can be obtained with Zen Beans, how about making the Royal Zen Bean obtainable via PvE?

[Rajak]

1 hour ago, DomiSotto said:

I don't ignore it! Every time I upgrade my gear I try it in a vain hope I get the drops. But, no, still not   there. And means I need to do more dungeons. Not just middle-range difficulty PvE, the purple heroic dungeons for the end-game group PvE. And I never get to play arena, not  really. Because dungeons is the only thing that matters, Even that I want to, and don't want to run dungeons a lot. How's that fair that you cannot get rewards for something you are eager to do, and instead you need to do things you do not want to do a few hundred times?

 

Why can't blue dungeons give stuff you need for progressing, not as much as the purple ones, but at least a bit?

As I already said in an earlier post, the game is centered around PvX, neither pure PvE nor pure PvP. Just as you don't like PvE, the real PvE players ( the ones that don't like to even place their faction uniform on or even press that F9 button) don't like to do the faction and arena stuff. That means they have to buy the ss and moonstones from AH. I'm pretty sure you already know how costly that can be, right?

What makes PvP players think that PvE players are in such a good state is that when they say 'PvE players', they are actually referring to the PvX ones (I.e. the ones that like doing both dungeon and OWPvP/faction stuff). And ofc PvX players would be in a more advantageous situation since they are engaging in most (if not all) aspects of the game. Can you really say that they don't deserve to be rewarded for that?

That being said, I do accept that PvP players are in a bad position when it comes to gear progression (probably a bit worse than the pure PvE players but that can be argued when both moonstones and soulstones become necessary for weapon/acc upgrades). And I accept that arena PvP players could use an extra gold income other than selling soulstones. What I do not agree with you however is the blue dungeons giving stuff for progression. Why? Cuz those dungeons are redicously easy (seriously, so easy that it isn't even funny after running it a couple of times). Such loot should not be in those dungeons. I won't even go into the economy issue it would cause.

[Alysha Hawkeye]

How about...

 

Adding the Royal Zen Bean as a crafted item for Acquired Taste?

 

The theme is suitable.

 

And it will make the profession a little more popular.

 

Requirement ideas:

 

-Profession Rank 4

-125 soulstones (to make 5 items from Silverfrost-rank meat)

-5 Premium Kaolin Bowls

-10 Glacial Water

-25 Skypetal Flowers (to make this worthless items worth more)

 

If a PvE player wants the bean, he/she can buy/craft the item.

 

If a PvP player wants the bean, he/she can just pvp in arena or 6v6 to get currencies and exchange.

[DomiSotto]

19 hours ago, Rajak said:

What makes PvP players think that PvE players are in such a good state is that when they say 'PvE players', they are actually referring to the PvX ones (I.e. the ones that like doing both dungeon and OWPvP/faction stuff). And ofc PvX players would be in a more advantageous situation since they are engaging in most (if not all) aspects of the game. Can you really say that they don't deserve to be rewarded for that?

A PvX player in this game effectively takes on a full-time job. This is hardly an option for most people.

 

 

Quote

What I do not agree with you however is the blue dungeons giving stuff for progression. Why? Cuz those dungeons are redicously easy (seriously, so easy that it isn't even funny after running it a couple of times). Such loot should not be in those dungeons. I won't even go into the economy issue it would cause.

 

 

They however, are suitable in difficulty for the folks who are trying to gear up. Why are they even there in the first place if you get nothing of value from them? Because we have nothing to do in this game? Why am I continuously pushed by the game to get carried, instead of doing the content I am geared for and catching up my gear to my level from it?

 

Plus, I am very certain, lots of people out there prefer the content that is fast and fun, rather than long and grueling-hard.

 

As for the economy, the prices are outrageous, and can use a huge drop for the high level mats, given the quantities required for each upgrade.

[Nattia]

please please listen to OP :)

[Rajak]

57 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

A PvX player in this game effectively takes on a full-time job. This is hardly an option for most people.

 

 

 

 

They however, are suitable in difficulty for the folks who are trying to gear up. Why are they even there in the first place if you get nothing of value from them? Because we have nothing to do in this game? Why am I continuously pushed by the game to get carried, instead of doing the content I am geared for and catching up my gear to my level from it?

 

Plus, I am very certain, lots of people out there prefer the content that is fast and fun, rather than long and grueling-hard.

 

As for the economy, the prices are outrageous, and can use a huge drop for the high level mats, given the quantities required for each upgrade.

As far as I know, blue dungeons in silverfrost don't have any noteworthy drops expect for radiant energy which is used for heptagonal gem transmutation. They are mainly run for their dailies (mainly the xp from them). So yes, probably making them a bit more rewarding would be nice. But not with frozen stingers, maybe if they made radiant energy a guaranteed drop for each run, they would be worth farming.

 

And them being suitable in difficulty for people trying to gear up? I could solo most of them while on 460AP on my sin so I doubt that a full pt of 400+ AP players will find the slightest challenge at clearing those. They get really boring real soon. You really think a dungeon of such difficulty deserves to have frozen stingers as a reward?

 

Also, silverfrost heroic dungeons being long? Since when is lair, yeti and even necro considered long? And if you have at least 400-420 AP, then you can pull your weight through the 6man versions of lair, necro and even yeti. So how are you supposingly getting carried through those? Now, you can get above 400ap with true profane and a 25AP gem at lvl 50, so it ain't hard to reach that much.

[DrowningEarth]

19 hours ago, Alysha Hawkeye said:

How about...

 

Adding the Royal Zen Bean as a crafted item for Acquired Taste?

 

The theme is suitable.

 

And it will make the profession a little more popular.

 

Requirement ideas:

 

-Profession Rank 4

-125 soulstones (to make 5 items from Silverfrost-rank meat)

-5 Premium Kaolin Bowls

-10 Glacial Water

-25 Skypetal Flowers (to make this worthless items worth more)

 

If a PvE player wants the bean, he/she can buy/craft the item.

 

If a PvP player wants the bean, he/she can just pvp in arena or 6v6 to get currencies and exchange.

The bean came out during the level 45 cap (though HM levels were available). I do not see why it should be a Silverfrost/lvl 4 craft (in addition to the fact that its Zen Bean cost is considerably lower than that of the book/lost volume). I would limit it to 125 soulstones and have it consume  something like barley/tempered clay/hibiscus from green thumbs and herbside.

[Passel]

just curious, not every HM skill need the royal bean, only certain HM skill need that.

are you sure your PVE HM skill need royal bean to unlock?

[Alysha Hawkeye]

4 hours ago, Passel said:

just curious, not every HM skill need the royal bean, only certain HM skill need that.

are you sure your PVE HM skill need royal bean to unlock?

You know...

 

Summoner's Sunflower has its HM from Royal Zen Bean, and I don't think it is a pvp skill.

 

No chance for a Summoner to stack up the buff for focus-free Sunflower spam during PvP, like you always see them doing in PvE (unless they have HM Seed Shroud, but it's not from Royal Zen Bean). Even if you just stand there and let the Summoner weaving LMB+RMB, you are pretty much die before they can even stack enough the buff.

The skill is also very Critical dependent, and hard to work with only 30% critical rate in arena.

 

In short, Royal Zen Bean, which earned from PvP, has no purpose in PvP for Summoner, but it is a great DPS boost in PvE.

[DomiSotto]

On Wednesday, May 04, 2016 at 1:56 PM, Rajak said:

And them being suitable in difficulty for people trying to gear up? I could solo most of them while on 460AP on my sin so I doubt that a full pt of 400+ AP players will find the slightest challenge at clearing those. They get really boring real soon. You really think a dungeon of such difficulty deserves to have frozen stingers as a reward?

Absolutely, I do. And moonstones. So a person can gear up to level 50 gear without having to do purple dungeons at all. I do not like dungeons with complicated mechanics, the Naryu Lab is very hard for me already. I don't want to go and do purples beyond that. I think it's been 2 weeks so far, I was unable to get enough soulstones and pay for the recipe for the MTS crafting to break through my weapon. Two weeks. Now, I finally scraped together 37 gold for the MP recipe (that does not drop in Brightstones, that's an urban myth, I've run it maybe 15 times, recipe dropped only once and for Aquired tastes) and have all the soulstones. I am sure the upgrade will increase my AP by the whole of... 5 or so points.

 

Unreal....

 

The other game I played, it was much more reasonable. You did a raid 2-3 times a week, you have a good enough gear set in a month. FULL set. It was 2 tiers below the BiS. And if you did it on the time each raid was on a Daily, your gear was bolstered, so you could participate fully, until you geared up.

 

At first I thought, OMG, BnS system is awesome, with the green & blue leveling dungeons. But come the purples... OMG, that's awful.

[Rajak]

4 hours ago, DomiSotto said:

Absolutely, I do. And moonstones. So a person can gear up to level 50 gear without having to do purple dungeons at all. I do not like dungeons with complicated mechanics, the Naryu Lab is very hard for me already. I don't want to go and do purples beyond that. I think it's been 2 weeks so far, I was unable to get enough soulstones and pay for the recipe for the MTS crafting to break through my weapon. Two weeks. Now, I finally scraped together 37 gold for the MP recipe (that does not drop in Brightstones, that's an urban myth, I've run it maybe 15 times, recipe dropped only once and for Aquired tastes) and have all the soulstones. I am sure the upgrade will increase my AP by the whole of... 5 or so points.

 

Unreal....

 

The other game I played, it was much more reasonable. You did a raid 2-3 times a week, you have a good enough gear set in a month. FULL set. It was 2 tiers below the BiS. And if you did it on the time each raid was on a Daily, your gear was bolstered, so you could participate fully, until you geared up.

 

At first I thought, OMG, BnS system is awesome, with the green & blue leveling dungeons. But come the purples... OMG, that's awful.

Honestly, I don't see what you are asking for being implemented in BnS. Maybe when this content becomes as outdated as the moonwater area one I could see it happening but I doubt that is coming anytime soon. Then again, that is just my opinion. And you are entitled to yours. So let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. :)

[DomiSotto]

16 minutes ago, Rajak said:

Honestly, I don't see what you are asking for being implemented in BnS. Maybe when this content becomes as outdated as the moonwater area one I could see it happening but I doubt that is coming anytime soon. Then again, that is just my opinion. And you are entitled to yours. So let's agree to disagree and leave it at that. :)

I simply want everything to reward relevant mats if we have only one set of gear. Purple 4x dungeons drop a mother-load, purple 6M - less, and blue dungeons - less again. Plus, blue dungeons to start dropping SDC again.

 

In addition, cutting down the amount of mats needed for each upgrade about 5x might bring it in-line with humanly possible to obtain while not dedicating your life to BnS.

 

Alternatively, cutting out a few of the endless steps on the way to level 50 end-game gear will be cool. True profane is considered level 42 gear. To Breeze, that is the first level 50 set, we have to pass 11(!) Transformation stages. Eleven stages for 8 levels of the character! And there is 9(!) stages of level 50 weapons....

 

Why do we need 20 (!) levels of gear?

[Miayu]

I'm a pure pve-player, because I really hate pvp, not because I'd be bad at it, I just don't like fighting other players, I much prefer cooperating with them to fight against mobs... Everyday I try to force myself to go to the arena for the royal zen bean for the sunflower skill, and every day I decide I'll do it the next day! xD So yes, getting that bean as a pve-player from the achievement merchant would be a like a dream come true... pvp players have everything easier already (soulstones, moonstones, pellet...)

[Nattia]

Please let us have the hm pellet via PVE. i went through the trouble to get the royal zen bean because it required not that many beans... but getting 20k or so beans for the pellet will cost me grey hair xD it's too stressful for me to pvp :(

[tandava]

On 5/3/2016 at 2:52 AM, KatHead said:

I fall into the pvx category, and threads like this are very irritating. PVPers by far get the worst end of the deal in this game when it comes to: Gold, Exp, HM Skills, Outfits, and thats not to mention EVERYTHING ELSE DESIRABLE IN THIS GAME.

 

The pve community even has a battleground to farm ss and moonstones in now as pvp only players will not play it due to gear imbalance. 

From the perspective of a PvE player, having to play in Faction outfit is still PvP. Because of that PvP players have the vast advantage in earning gold.

 

Up to last week I was working very hard - all day some times - trying to earn enough gold to upgrade my weapons and have a competitive bid for outfits. This meant 20-30 gold a day for me. Now that I've learned that soulstone farmers make over 100g/day, I've been depressed and not feeling like playing any more. I'm burnt out doing the same quests every day when I won't be competitive for outfits anyway. Another thread is complaining about the currency exchange getting to 100g to buy an outfit. I've never earned enough gold to even try the currency exchange. This is a privilege for those players who don't get stressed out from being PK'd.

 

I don't think the game designers understand how disheartening such imbalances are. To address the subject of this thread, it would be nice for PvE players to be able to get the Hongmoon Pills without joining a clan. Being social is a big part of the game, but it shouldn't be forced. Some players have had bad experiences in guilds/clans, and they'd rather play solo until they make friends first and find a group they can trust.

 

In short, I agree the PVP and PVE paths should be separated and no one should be forced to do things they don't want to do. Moreover, the rewards should be equitable and linked to time spent/gear investments rather than willingness do things that aren't fun for you.

[KatHead]

28 minutes ago, tandava said:

From the perspective of a PvE player, having to play in Faction outfit is still PvP. Because of that PvP players have the vast advantage in earning gold.

4 mans dungeons do not require a faction outfit. They are the single largest source of gold in this game. 

 

I got my Hongmoon pills through faction chat, I paid 100g for mine. The pvp one is way to expensive to even think about getting from pvp, it is probably this way to keep pve players from feeling forced to pvp for the hm pill. 

 

I earned 75g on my alt today before i even logged onto my main, 100% from pve content. I spent 1200 gold yesterday getting my bms breeze weapon to scorpio, im finally in the 600 ap club (yay), but im now broke af. With 2 characters at 50 with 450 ap or more there is no reason you cant earn 150g per day in around 5 hours (without touching the more lucrative 4 man content). 

 

Why did it cost me 1200 gold to upgrade ? Because I have earned 0 prestige in ssp, 0 moonstones in ssp, killed 0 npcs in ssp, killed 0 players in ssp, completed 0 quests in ssp. I like this game to much to go to ssp, if I did I would get cheated by the hackers and most likely rage quit (I will not be cheated). Use your time in game wisely, you will progress faster than you think. 

 

What do you use your silverfrost valor tokens on ?  Go to Northreach, there is a wheel of fate there with a npc beside it. Exchange your Silver frost tokens for wheel of fate tickets. I do this every 7 - 10 days on my main and my alt. Today I did it on my main and got:

200 sf tokens =

~60 Jewel pouches (the good ones) (33 gold)

*22 Jewels (upgrades accessories and one of the best things to use to do it)

~03 Nayru Silver

~50 Nayru Coin

 

I did this yesterday on my alt and netted around 28 gold from pouches. That is 60 gold per week, that most people simply do not know is available to them(not to mention the free upgrades on accessories). There are many more things you could be doing for gold that you probably are not doing now, get out there and look for them. Do not let one door closing keep you from obtaining what you want. Most likely you have been taking keys as your reward from dailies, stop it. There is free gold to be had !

[tandava]

Yes I always choose the key. Thanks for the tip. I'll try it.

 

I still doubt I will be earning gold on a level you seem to be, though. XD

 

I've wanted to try the 4-man dungeons because I'm not seeing outfit drops on the regular ones. However, no one answered my question about the gear/AP expectations that I posted a couple of days ago. I'm at 460 AP, and I'm nowhere near gathering the mats to upgrade further as I've crossed the oathbreaker path "big jump". I still haven't defeated Junghado, so I'm stuck on my belt, too.

 

I don't want to hijack the thread with my problems. I wonder if other PvE players feel stuck by earning so little from dailies like I do.

[DrowningEarth]

3 hours ago, tandava said:

Yes I always choose the key. Thanks for the tip. I'll try it.

 

I still doubt I will be earning gold on a level you seem to be, though. XD

 

I've wanted to try the 4-man dungeons because I'm not seeing outfit drops on the regular ones. However, no one answered my question about the gear/AP expectations that I posted a couple of days ago. I'm at 460 AP, and I'm nowhere near gathering the mats to upgrade further as I've crossed the oathbreaker path "big jump". I still haven't defeated Junghado, so I'm stuck on my belt, too.

 

I don't want to hijack the thread with my problems. I wonder if other PvE players feel stuck by earning so little from dailies like I do.

4 man requires more than AP. AP just means that you have enough potential DPS to avoid hitting enrage (though crit/damage matter too).

 

4 man boss attacks do not have markings/indicators. Some boss attacks hit harder than they do in 6 man. You do not have dragonblood either. Most outfits are not available on 6 man (unless they merge 6/4 rewards, like they did with Poh/BSH/Naryu)

 

It eventually comes down to learning through trial and error, because to be honest - even though 6 mans are the same dungeon, 4's are less forgiving when it comes to the mechanics. You'll find it helpful to know exact boss attack patterns, since you won't have ground markers to go off of.

[tandava]

Thanks for mentioning there is no dragonblood. :(  My hp is still under 50k, and I often use at least one dragonblood on Heroic dungeons. :(

 

I've been wearing the Scorpio belt just to get my hp up, but I'd rather wear my regular belt (which just hit Oathbreaker) because it has other stats. Not sure how other people get their hp up into the 70s. D:

[KatHead]

1 hour ago, tandava said:

Thanks

I just logged off of my main:

 

 

I been leveling professions on different alt so this is not accurate for what my bm earned today, all of this was earned in 6 man including quest  xp. You will never earn this type of gold in pvp in 2 hours. Anyway, good luck mate. Just avoid the stuff you do not like, where there is a will there is usually a way. 

[Bartas]

4 hours ago, tandava said:

Thanks for mentioning there is no dragonblood. :(  My hp is still under 50k, and I often use at least one dragonblood on Heroic dungeons. :(

 

I've been wearing the Scorpio belt just to get my hp up, but I'd rather wear my regular belt (which just hit Oathbreaker) because it has other stats. Not sure how other people get their hp up into the 70s. D:

60-70k HP comes mainly from good roll soulshields (normal bonus + set) and HM levels. Usually I run with 65k but I think I will drop it soon in favour of other stats and set bonusses. TBH there is no need for that high HP even in most demanding dungs if you know what you are doing.

[Nattia]

i hate afkers in arena, please don't do that... at least put minimum effort :/ i dislike pvp but i don't do this stuff to other players - i'm not that selfish.

[PatchKid]

I'm not sure this really warrants discussion.  You can PvE for Zen Beans.  Pick up the quests, AFK in matches until they're done - and then go claim your free zen beans.  If you get lucky, you'll see someone else AFK their matches and you can just win them really fast.

 

There's no "effort" required.  The previous system for HM skills required a massive amount of effort by PvP players to obtain skills.  Skills that PVE players could grind.  You had to:

 

1. Gear up (and level up) sufficiently for the content (vs no gear needed for arena)

2. Find groups capable of achieving the content (vs solo content you can do on your own)

3. Get lucky and spend most of your time doing PvE (no RNG for zen beans)

 

This was not how a PvP-minded player wanted to work.  There is none of the above required to get zen beans for you 5k skill.  Just zone in, stand in a match - win or lose you'll get like 800 zen beans a day.  Not to mention you can just AFK free beans all day long in 3v3 and it's easier content than daily blue dungeons that requires zero effort.

[PatchKid]

14 minutes ago, Nattia said:

i hate afkers in arena, please don't do that... at least put minimum effort :/ i dislike pvp but i don't do this stuff to other players - i'm not that selfish.

Meh, if you're bronze it doesn't bother anything anyway.  Better to get your stuff done and let the players who want to compete start moving into ranks where they can.

[Nattia]

3 minutes ago, PatchKid said:

Meh, if you're bronze it doesn't bother anything anyway.  Better to get your stuff done and let the players who want to compete start moving into ranks where they can.

this makes high level ranks lose too. why people never think about others...

[DrowningEarth]

11 hours ago, tandava said:

Thanks for mentioning there is no dragonblood. :(  My hp is still under 50k, and I often use at least one dragonblood on Heroic dungeons. :(

 

I've been wearing the Scorpio belt just to get my hp up, but I'd rather wear my regular belt (which just hit Oathbreaker) because it has other stats. Not sure how other people get their hp up into the 70s. D:

OB belt gives better resist against Asura debuff than the non-HM Scorpio. Though that's only relevant if you're running Asura.

 

40 minutes ago, PatchKid said:

I'm not sure this really warrants discussion.  You can PvE for Zen Beans.  Pick up the quests, AFK in matches until they're done - and then go claim your free zen beans.  If you get lucky, you'll see someone else AFK their matches and you can just win them really fast.

 

There's no "effort" required.  The previous system for HM skills required a massive amount of effort by PvP players to obtain skills.  Skills that PVE players could grind.  You had to:

 

1. Gear up (and level up) sufficiently for the content (vs no gear needed for arena)

2. Find groups capable of achieving the content (vs solo content you can do on your own)

3. Get lucky and spend most of your time doing PvE (no RNG for zen beans)

 

This was not how a PvP-minded player wanted to work.  There is none of the above required to get zen beans for you 5k skill.  Just zone in, stand in a match - win or lose you'll get like 800 zen beans a day.  Not to mention you can just AFK free beans all day long in 3v3 and it's easier content than daily blue dungeons that requires zero effort.

I can match the brilliance of this suggestion by suggesting that PvP players can host 4 mans, set master loot and AFK. You'll get your outfits/flowers/lost hongmoon volumes/asura embers/oathbreaker blade pieces in no time.

 

And how exactly are you "PvEing" for zb's by afking in arena? There's nothing remotely PvE about the arena.

 

Bottom line is, as long as there are balanced opportunities for both PvP and PvE players, everyone will be happy. I don't have a problem with PvP players getting access to PvE only stuff, but there should be PvE options for PvP rewards.