Losing Gem Socket when upgrading to oathbreaker!

[Elvenmad]

 One thing I have noticed from reading the forums, reddit and other sources is players upgrading to the Oathbreaker evolve path are losing their paid for extra gem sockets while others that have gone along the Pirate evolve path have not, surely that is not right.

 As mentioned above I am pretty sure this will be yet another issue that will be quietly 'passed' over just like many of the other issues which while they are broken or bugged etc are making them more money.

 

[Silhouette]

I may be wrong, but I played a little on the TWN servers and I think in the old days, you had to remove your gems and such before upgrading and they didn't stay with the weapon when it evolved.  Maybe the NA game is moving so quickly that they imported the Asian version of the patch where you still have to do that and gems don't stay in the weapon every evolution (like they have for all of NA) -- just a thought on why gem slots may be missing.  

 

I'm not even 45 yet (and still have Awakened Profane), and this kind of thing makes me even more set on going down the Siren path since it is still working as intended and as it was made for the NA client.

[khynnea]

I got one gem hammer on my warlock and did the 'right' thing and used it right after blight, and it stayed with my character along with the socketed gem through every transformation, every evolution. This is the point of confusion. If things changed, there is/was no warning.

 

Since this 'test' went so well, I got the other hammers for all of my alts (yes, I have 8 characters), so that it would cost me the least possible -- in other words, I got them right away, when the weapons were as 'little' and the characters as low level as possible. Some were already 45 and it hurt, and others only needed 1 hammer. It was still a lot of hammers.

 

If they changed the expected behavior without any warning, I need to know/understand.

 

If I need to stick a particular upgrade path to basically make it so I didn't waste all that real money then fine, let me know what to do. Last I understood, the "choice" of upgrade paths was not a long term thing and that siren/pirate was "eventually" going away. I need to understand this too...

 

Bottom line, while I get that patches bring chaos and prioritization of bugs, I don't want this to get lost in the confusion and I do want an official response because there is real money involved.

 

Thanks.

[ThunderGod]

hopefully some of the mod or dev reply to this!

[Elvenmad]

Quotes from a Reddit thread 

People trying to understand how it is 'supossed' to work, but which ever way you look at it nothing seems right.

• "what i am guessing is, when the pirate guys upgrade to the new weapon they will lose the gem slot, if you got oathbreaker, you should buy an additional gem asap, because you won't lose it anymore, since you are already at the new path"
•  

"yes 'maybe' BUT from true Pirate you evolve to True Breeze, maybe that's when that path loses a slot, but if you go down the Oathbreaker path you lose a slot and also eventually you too go through the True Breeze path when the two paths merge so do you lose yet again another slot ? Plus also take into account the higher up in the evolve chain your weapon is the more Gem Hammers it costs to unlock a new slot "

[Enamour]

17 hours ago, devildawg said:

Uh oh, is this going to be the same situation if you used a gem hammer right at the beginning of the game before going Blight? Once you hit Blight you essentially lose that gem socket you opened with the hammer since you get a "free" slot. This better not be the case since i used gem hammers on 6 or 7 characters already...

 

Why does it always feel like the player gets dumped on in this game? 

I didn't lose a gem socket with 3 of my chars that are now 45 (as soon as I got the Hongmoon weapon on them, I put 4 sockets on it).

[devildawg]

1 minute ago, Enamour said:

I didn't lose a gem socket with 3 of my chars that are now 45 (as soon as I got the Hongmoon weapon on them, I put 4 sockets on it).

I did, and 3 of my friends did as well.

[khynnea]

4 minutes ago, Enamour said:

I didn't lose a gem socket with 3 of my chars that are now 45 (as soon as I got the Hongmoon weapon on them, I put 4 sockets on it).

 

1 minute ago, devildawg said:

I did, and 3 of my friends did as well.

I have never lost gems or sockets prior to the latest patch yesterday -- but between the two of your experiences, it makes me wonder when you both used hammers.

 

I never used a gem hammer until the warlock expansion. My first hammer was used when my warlock went through blackram narrows and I never lost anything on them even though they had four gems throughout leveling to 45.

 

I used hammers on my alts, and no one else has ever lost a gem socket leveling or transforming.

 

I wonder if something changed since release.

[Enamour]

Just now, devildawg said:

I did, and 3 of my friends did as well.

Whoa maybe it's like RNG and I just got lucky on a bug or something...when was this if you don't mind me asking? Or was it over a span of time for all 4 of you that it wouldn't matter?

[devildawg]

1 minute ago, Enamour said:

Whoa maybe it's like RNG and I just got lucky on a bug or something...when was this if you don't mind me asking? Or was it over a span of time for all 4 of you that it wouldn't matter?

It was a week or 2 before the warlock event. I remember because we got those characters to lv 16 so we couldn't use them for the WL event. 

[khynnea]

4 minutes ago, devildawg said:

It was a week or 2 before the warlock event. I remember because we got those characters to lv 16 so we couldn't use them for the WL event. 

It is my understanding if you use a hammer BEFORE the first weapon transformation you do encounter some unhappy surprise and effectively lose the hammer :(  I do not know all the ins and outs of it, but I do vaguely remember something about this from my first googling of what a gem hammer was in the first place, back when I did not know.

[Cesura]

I was recently told that in some other versions of the game, the top level weapons at endgame have their slots RNGed every time you evolve them. As in, worst case scenario you could have all 6 slots and get kicked back to 1-2. 

 

Considering that gem hammers are a cash shop item, and not a cheap one considering you need 4+ of them at the point we're at, trying to goad us into potentially buying $10 worth of them every time we need a weapon upgrade would be downright predatory. As in, the type of red flag that would make me rethink continuing to play this game.

 

Less of a problem if gem hammers were easier to obtain outside of the cash shop like some of the other materials in it, like moonwater tears, cinderlands thorns and those sorts of things. But as far as I can tell a $2 a pop cash shop purchase is the only reliable way to get them aside from an extremely rare RNG drop in a very uncommon type of chest. (I don't remember which chest it was... I wanna say it was the valentine's event chests that had them as a potential drop?) 

 

That's pretty shitty if that's the road we're going down here. 

 

Acceptable Alternatives to me:

1. Kill this RNG slot loss/gain completely, keep it the way it's worked up until level 45 where certain tiers unlock a slot, but you can get them early with hammers

2. RNG the "free" slots, but any gem hammered ones are guaranteed permanent. Still a tad slimy to me, but at least people who paid actual cash for hammers won't be screwed out of the money they spent. 

3. Make gem hammers easier to obtain in game as dungeon/quest rewards like rare materials, or make them craftable (Forgekeepers perhaps?) so that regaining RNGed gems slots is at least more of a gold sink problem than a cash sink problem. (In which case, drop the cost of gem hammers in the cash shop to more like 40 or something) 

 

 

[Enamour]

8 minutes ago, devildawg said:

It was a week or 2 before the warlock event. I remember because we got those characters to lv 16 so we couldn't use them for the WL event. 

Damn that's really weird. I think I leveled my Blade Master around that time and used them right when you get the weapon (at level 3 I think).

[khynnea]

4 minutes ago, Cesura said:

I was recently told that in some other versions of the game, the top level weapons at endgame have their slots RNGed every time you evolve them. As in, worst case scenario you could have all 6 slots and get kicked back to 1-2. 

 

Considering that gem hammers are a cash shop item, and not a cheap one considering you need 4+ of them at the point we're at, trying to goad us into potentially buying $10 worth of them every time we need a weapon upgrade would be downright predatory. As in, the type of red flag that would make me rethink continuing to play this game.

 

Less of a problem if gem hammers were easier to obtain outside of the cash shop like some of the other materials in it, like moonwater tears, cinderlands thorns and those sorts of things. But as far as I can tell a $2 a pop cash shop purchase is the only reliable way to get them aside from an extremely rare RNG drop in a very uncommon type of chest. (I don't remember which chest it was... I wanna say it was the valentine's event chests that had them as a potential drop?) 

 

That's pretty shitty if that's the road we're going down here. 

 

Acceptable Alternatives to me:

1. Kill this RNG slot loss/gain completely, keep it the way it's worked up until level 45 where certain tiers unlock a slot, but you can get them early with hammers

2. RNG the "free" slots, but any gem hammered ones are guaranteed permanent. Still a tad slimy to me, but at least people who paid actual cash for hammers won't be screwed out of the money they spent. 

3. Make gem hammers easier to obtain in game as dungeon/quest rewards like rare materials, or make them craftable (Forgekeepers perhaps?) so that regaining RNGed gems slots is at least more of a gold sink problem than a cash sink problem. (In which case, drop the cost of gem hammers in the cash shop to more like 40 or something) 

 

 

 

First of all, any behavior relating to what happens to enhancements we make to our characters' items in the game through purchase of real money items in the shop should be *documented* and any changes to those behaviors should be documented in the patch notes, and communicated. This shouldn't be something we're figuring out through the forums and through anecdotal information in the forums. NCSoft should be on top of this and communicating clearly.

 

Second of all, if it is expected behavior that there is ANY RNG attached to a cash shop item that I am buying, I want to know. I do not buy lock boxes for specific reasons, and if you are going to be putting an RNG "timer" on an item enhancement that I am buying in the store, I want to know that in advance.

Waving hands at the ToS and saying YMMV and that you as the company get to change things at any time isn't adequate. There should be some expectation of permanancy even in an online game that when I spend money on something that it is going to be for the "duration." Character slots, costumes, character enhancements -- I wouldn't be spending *cash money* on these items if there wasn't an expectation of permanancy.

 

So yeah, I completely agree with suggestions 1 and 2. If you are going to start taking away things that we spend money on, then you sort of need to tell us that in advance, that we are going to potentially lose that money and then we can consider not spending it in the first place.

[devildawg]

52 minutes ago, Enamour said:

Damn that's really weird. I think I leveled my Blade Master around that time and used them right when you get the weapon (at level 3 I think).

Yeah I dunno. I wasted 9.5g that day because I bought 2 of my friends the gem hammer from the marketplace, as well as my own :(

 

We were still in Bamboo village when we applied the hammers. 

[Ruffresia]

It's been always like this... Other regions also, it's not a bug, I'm sorry guys.

[khynnea]

59 minutes ago, Ruffresia said:

It's been always like this... Other regions also, it's not a bug, I'm sorry guys.

It is not ok for them to sell us product for real money and then basically revoke said product without telling us when we buy it that it will happen.

 

They need to address it formally.

[jigawatt]

6 hours ago, Silhouette said:

I played a little on the TWN servers and I think in the old days, you had to remove your gems and such before upgrading and they didn't stay with the weapon when it evolved.  Maybe the NA game is moving so quickly that they imported the Asian version of the patch where you still have to do that and gems don't stay in the weapon every evolution (like they have for all of NA) 

 

This reeks as the most likely culprit, something that slipped through the cracks in their rushed importing of the game. This would also explain why the mods have been 100% silent. They know they screwed this one up big time. At least show some customer service skills and say 'wow this is bad I'm really sorry I'll try my best to make this a priority for the team'

 

They probably assumed the people that paid for gem slots are the people that would have gotten true pirate before the patch. They evidently forgot the group of players that pay for gem slots yet level more slowly. This game is so hardcore grind-focused it's not even funny.

[Elvenmad]

 In other versions of the game, I can not specifically remember which ones, as I played tw/jp and cn, but end game weapons when they were Evolved the number of Gem slots was random, you could get 2 or 6. hence you had to remove your Gems prior to each Evolve. But other versions all have completely different business models also, in ours Gem Hammers are cash items or a very very rare drop, ( I have 6 45's and never seen one drop) so considering our version they are cash Items it would make sense to not have them randomly removed.

I also seem to remember in a other version Gem Hammers were a crafted item but I'm not 100% sure on that.

 

In our version it was said we would not be getting this quote from Babbletron dated 17th March:

 

Babbletr0n

starting at Oathbreaker (Devil) the amount of gem slots will not be re-rolled on upgrading and you do not need to remove your gems

EDIT: Before people start quoting this, I'm going to do a full investigation to make sure this is 100% accurate

 

 

 However he never got back so left it completely unknown what was happening, so now were are left in this situationon, but it does seem like the amount of Gem slots is in fact randomly rolled after Oathbreaker which is why some players are losing slots and some are not, if this is the case then the statement from Babbletron is not true OR they messed up and forgot to change our system, which I think is what has happened and now they are keeping quiet, All in all it is just really bad communication and really bad management especially as this concerns a cash shop item, this should and needs to be addressed asap officially.

 

[Kadirra]

Really need an update on this, as it may hinder my progress waiting for said answer. What is going on with this issue? Is it a mistake? Is it new RNG? Is it a bug? Is it the way things are now? What is the answer?

 

Please moderators, consider getting this answer to us asap.

 

If it is just a known bug, I'll hold off doing anything till it is fixed. If it is just the way things are and we're all hosed either by RNG or whatever, need to know that too.

[Shando]

8 hours ago, khynnea said:

 

First of all, any behavior relating to what happens to enhancements we make to our characters' items in the game through purchase of real money items in the shop should be *documented* and any changes to those behaviors should be documented in the patch notes, and communicated. This shouldn't be something we're figuring out through the forums and through anecdotal information in the forums. NCSoft should be on top of this and communicating clearly.

 

Second of all, if it is expected behavior that there is ANY RNG attached to a cash shop item that I am buying, I want to know. I do not buy lock boxes for specific reasons, and if you are going to be putting an RNG "timer" on an item enhancement that I am buying in the store, I want to know that in advance.

Waving hands at the ToS and saying YMMV and that you as the company get to change things at any time isn't adequate. There should be some expectation of permanancy even in an online game that when I spend money on something that it is going to be for the "duration." Character slots, costumes, character enhancements -- I wouldn't be spending *cash money* on these items if there wasn't an expectation of permanancy.

 

So yeah, I completely agree with suggestions 1 and 2. If you are going to start taking away things that we spend money on, then you sort of need to tell us that in advance, that we are going to potentially lose that money and then we can consider not spending it in the first place.

This is an excellent post. As a paying customer myself, I would want to know if what I paid for is going to be destroyer behind a game mechanic that you as a developer thought was a smart design. A great many of your "smart designs" are quickly turning out to your worst decisions and that is what's wrong with the current trajectory of the game. You are quickly pushing away people that are wanting to invest in this game. 

 

Great comment with fun of insights, Khynnea - Thank you 

[Shando]

@Elvenmad

 

Is there an update to Babbletr0n quote?

[Elvenmad]

1 hour ago, Shando said:

@Elvenmad

 

Is there an update to Babbletr0n quote?

Nope...nothing,  I checked Reddit (were there are similar threads also) and BnS's Twitter and  Babbletrons twitter also Blade and souls OPS were I also sent them a tweet for some clarity on the matter, but nothing.

 

 To be really honest I am expecting a reply of 'were looking into it' or something along those lines, as long as it is broken or bugged it is making them money , just like the still bugged from Launch issue with players buying Ncoin to unlock there mail but they still can not send mail which returns a reply from support 'it is a known issue and we are currently working on a fix'......................since launch !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bezerko]

This sounds an awful lot like the outfit pouch fiasco.  They don't really disclose that you're using real money for something you may end up losing / not getting.

[Shando]

@Elvenmad

 

As sad as this sounds, you are right in saying that the expected response will undoubtedly be "we are looking into it" or "a fix is due in a later date".