Overpowered Classes

[Kasumi Rose]

16 hours ago, HateMe said:

Even with crouching tiger the cat gets literally bursted to death in 2-3 hits

This simply MUST be referring to situations where the summoner is out-geared, correct? Because, from what I can witness, cats have plenty of survivability and health to not die in 2-3 hits. Am I wrong here? If the cat was going to die to burst in 2-3 hits then the summoner certainly would die in around 2-3 hits as well, and then that just means the summoner is out-geared in the situation.

 

Can anybody else confirm or deny that cats are extraordinarily fragile?

 

 

(Sudden shift of topic, and I'd like a response please:) Does anybody else think it would be a good idea for me to copy this thread over into the PvP section? It'd be re-named to "Perfect Imbalance" so that people don't see the "Overpowered" word and avoid the post entirely.

[ClassicMan]

Threads like this never work out because everyone thinks every class except their own is overpowered and will defend their class even if it is broken/overpowered asf. Every class maybe besides SF (R.I.P) has the ability to be cancer, it just depends on the player or in terms of 6v6, the gear.

[Fin]

30 minutes ago, Kasumi Rose said:

This simply MUST be referring to situations where the summoner is out-geared, correct? Because, from what I can witness, cats have plenty of survivability and health to not die in 2-3 hits. Am I wrong here? If the cat was going to die to burst in 2-3 hits then the summoner certainly would die in around 2-3 hits as well, and then that just means the summoner is out-geared in the situation.

 

Can anybody else confirm or deny that cats are extraordinarily fragile?

 

 

(Sudden shift of topic, and I'd like a response please:) Does anybody else think it would be a good idea for me to copy this thread over into the PvP section? It'd be re-named to "Perfect Imbalance" so that people don't see the "Overpowered" word and avoid the post entirely.

This is probably referring to gunners with 3-8 set aransu shields, and I can confirm that fire gunner at that gear level will delete pretty much anyone with tab.  That being said the nerfs to their absurd burst are already coming down the pipeline, so there's not really a point fixating on it.

[Kasumi Rose]

56 minutes ago, ClassicMan said:

Threads like this never work out because everyone thinks every class except their own is overpowered and will defend their class even if it is broken/overpowered asf. Every class maybe besides SF (R.I.P) has the ability to be cancer, it just depends on the player or in terms of 6v6, the gear.

       I would hope that only a small minority thinks that way (and yes, gear is a huge factor in classes being powerful, but I'd like to just focus on the fundamental mechanics/move-sets of classes in this thread without delving too much into gear-balance). I for one know that my OWN class, Warlock, is absurdly overpowered (if chosen to be used that way); therefore, I intentionally do not use any air-combo moves, and I usually win or come close to winning even against Warlocks who do air-spam. I think discussing something like this takes a certain level of maturity and understanding to be able to accept that a class (even one's own) is overpowered or not. I agree entirely with what you said, too: "it just depends on the player [to be overpowered]..."

       If everybody CHOSE not to use the unbalanced moves that they think are required to win with their class, then - like I said on a separate thread - this game would be host to a much more friendly, daring, and fun competitive/PvP environment. "Why would anyone use moves that aren't the most overpowered?" Hopefully for the sake of gameplay. 

 

Fin said:

55 minutes ago, Fin said:

nerfs to their absurd burst are already coming down the pipeline, so there's not really a point fixating on it.

2

That's a good sign. I wonder what they'll be doing to fix it; will the changes correct the problem, or cause other issues? I suppose we can talk about that when it happens.

 

 

In an attempt to re-open this thread to the discussion, here are the general questions this chat is asking:

       What, if anything, do you think needs to be re-worked or balanced in this game? (Remember, nerfs aren't always the answer, consider buffs in other areas.) Why do you think [whatever you chose] should change or stay the same? Please give examples and descriptions so that you can be credible and avoid confusion.

[Enemy Silence]

I played all classes and i can assure you the ONLY class that requires actual skill is KFM. I actually have experience with fighting games and balancing unlike the majority of you and have attended and placed in tournaments in street fighter, tekken and guilty gear. Granted this game is nothing like them, but i understand meta and fundamentals. What i'm telling you is KFM is the only class that requires high skill. As far as offense is concerned, they must outplay you EVERY TIME. If you struggle with hongmoon block and don't understand the timing in their iframes, it means you're not serious about pvp or you suck.

 

There is no tangible proof or evidence or video you can show to back up the claim that KFM doesn't require THE MOST skill. I challenge anyone to prove their point. You won't, you'll just post some BS and go on as if it holds water. I watch some of the top players play all classes and every class is balanced around gimmicks and shenanigans. Most classes weren't developed with skill in mind which is why most of your skills AUTO LOCK ON or AUTO CORRECT. INSTANT CAST with devastating results, shields and A.I. companions. Now if hongmoon block actually stunned you, then yes...you can talk all the crap you want and i'll agree, but it doesn't.

[Kasumi Rose]

       Alright, we've got a strong argument right away. I won't disagree with them, I personally think KFMs are pretty fine balance-wise. My only concern is that the block is boring. Like I stated earlier, KFM, BM, and sometimes WL spam-blocking is a mechanic that just candidly isn't fun to play against (or to play with I imagine) since it is - at its core - just something that causes players to have to stop and twiddle their thumbs for the few moments that the block goes up each time (unless you have a move that pierces block currently up. And some classes have more moves that pierce block than others). If HM-blocking with KFM takes skill like Enemy Silence says - and I'll trust that it does until somebody provides an explanation that proves otherwise - then it wouldn't be fair to give classes more block-breaking abilities (like I suggested earlier) without buffing the KFM and giving them some sort of incentive NOT to block, too.

       Since Enemy Silence wrote this topic I'll ask them what they think about the block. Is it boring? Could it or should it be improved (whatever your definition of improved is: be it reworked; nerfed; removed; buffed; etc. But you'll have to provide evidence for your claim, especially if you say it needs to be buffed). Is there something that could/should be introduced to help players move away from the "block-spamming meta" as I'm calling it, which certain classes seem to be forced into?

 

Everyone else, feel free to weigh in on this topic (or another topic), as well. And don't be afraid to say that you agree or disagree, just provide a reason(s) why.

[Grimzy]

4 hours ago, Enemy Silence said:

I played all classes and i can assure you the ONLY class that requires actual skill is KFM. I actually have experience with fighting games and balancing unlike the majority of you and have attended and placed in tournaments in street fighter, tekken and guilty gear. Granted this game is nothing like them, but i understand meta and fundamentals. What i'm telling you is KFM is the only class that requires high skill. As far as offense is concerned, they must outplay you EVERY TIME. If you struggle with hongmoon block and don't understand the timing in their iframes, it means you're not serious about pvp or you suck.

 

There is no tangible proof or evidence or video you can show to back up the claim that KFM doesn't require THE MOST skill. I challenge anyone to prove their point. You won't, you'll just post some BS and go on as if it holds water. I watch some of the top players play all classes and every class is balanced around gimmicks and shenanigans. Most classes weren't developed with skill in mind which is why most of your skills AUTO LOCK ON or AUTO CORRECT. INSTANT CAST with devastating results, shields and A.I. companions. Now if hongmoon block actually stunned you, then yes...you can talk all the crap you want and i'll agree, but it doesn't.

Actually i would argue on this. ATM the only skill KFM needs in PVP is the aransu badge and pretty much its a done deal no real skill needed there.

 

6 hours ago, ClassicMan said:

Threads like this never work out because everyone thinks every class except their own is overpowered and will defend their class even if it is broken/overpowered asf. Every class maybe besides SF (R.I.P) has the ability to be cancer, it just depends on the player or in terms of 6v6, the gear.

I agree that SF needs some love however....if i am not mistaken SF is like the only class who literally is 100% gear dependent, i mean once a SF is end game geared he is really strong.

 

7 hours ago, Kasumi Rose said:

This simply MUST be referring to situations where the summoner is out-geared, correct? Because, from what I can witness, cats have plenty of survivability and health to not die in 2-3 hits. Am I wrong here? If the cat was going to die to burst in 2-3 hits then the summoner certainly would die in around 2-3 hits as well, and then that just means the summoner is out-geared in the situation.

 

Can anybody else confirm or deny that cats are extraordinarily fragile?

 

 

(Sudden shift of topic, and I'd like a response please:) Does anybody else think it would be a good idea for me to copy this thread over into the PvP section? It'd be re-named to "Perfect Imbalance" so that people don't see the "Overpowered" word and avoid the post entirely.

Actually no, i mean literally the cat is easy to burst down, regardless of situation. The cat has no PVP / crit defense at all so it gets the full blow.

[ClassicMan]

18 hours ago, HateMe said:

I agree that SF needs some love however....if i am not mistaken SF is like the only class who literally is 100% gear dependent, i mean once a SF is end game geared he is really strong.

I'm talking about arena, if you look at the recent patch notes they are being nerfed once again. Also while yes they are strong in pve, it is no excuse for them not to get some love pvp wise, sin is top dps with plenty utility yet is still good in pvp and one would think because SF is so gear dependent then they would work on balancing the class some more.

[Kasumi Rose]

       We've got some pretty good discussions going on, people. Everyone seems to be giving examples and being over-all friendly to one another. The goal at this point in the thread is to write things that we hope the developers will see (and other players can react/comment on): nerfs; buffs; reworks; removals and/or additions of skills; etc. Make sure to continue commenting in a progressive way, which provides evidence, solid reasoning, and explanations of why/what you're saying. If your idea is good, and everybody agrees, then we can promote that idea with lots of likes (or other forms of promotion) so that the devs know what to look for. I just saw that Liinxy replied to a few posts not too long ago, so she might be looking through here pretty soon. Let's make sure we have something concrete for her to jot down and share (but also: no rush. The admins will check the posts again in the future, so take your time if you're thinking of commenting).

 

So, currently our topics of interest - in no particular order - are:

 

1. Does KFM take a high amount of skill (including their block)? And, subsequently, Is it balanced because of this?

 

2. Should the "block meta" (certain classes having to spam block to survive) be shaken up with re-works, buffs, or nerfs? If so, how might your specific idea of change affect gameplay?

 

3. Is Soul Fighter too dependent on gear with not enough raw PvP skills? If so, how might SF be altered to address this issue of imbalance?

 

4. Are summoners balanced? (HateMe and I have discussed this topic quite a bit already [and I'd encourage you to look through the chat for it] but some extra input would be helpful).

 

5. This is an older topic (from the beginning of the thread) but, does Force Master have too much utility/sustain skills to be balanced? Why or why not?

 

You don't have to write about all of these in the same reply, but we should definitely focus on these issues and iron them out before moving on to (or introducing) other issues.

[Skynemis]

I completely agree that summoner needs a huge buff. The rest of the classes are op.

[Kasumi Rose]

1 hour ago, Skynemis said:

I completely agree that summoner needs a huge buff. The rest of the classes are op.

 

Mkay, can you explain specifically why - in your opinion - Summoner needs a huge buff? And maybe explain some possible buffs it could receive? We want our comments to be interpretable and implementable by the B&S Dev team.

[Egoist00]

1 hour ago, Skynemis said:

I completely agree that summoner needs a huge buff. The rest of the classes are op.

LOL, have you seen the outlaw island solo dungeon, top 5 r SUM and they kill it in less than 10 sec.................how IDK but not even the fire gunner with max gear can do it in 30 sec lol

[Skynemis]

Oh, they are fixing summoner in KR. I will play KFM for now since it is easier until we get the fixes! Thank you for your ideas to improve my reasonings. 

[wZeroStyle]

Battle Grounds: PvX/PK 6v6

 

From Assassin perspective, before I'm starting -> I've created Assassin not a Cab Driver nor Olympic Torch Runner.

 

Started with an Ascendant Dagger 6 and PvE soulshield, wasn't able to perform until find out MSP shield build for the Mine Tossing. (Works well, only against non PvP geared players)

 

My main goal was to farm Battle Points for the moonstones, bcuz had a lot keys stacked. Then by playing it a lot and learning things, found some ways to deal with each class except Destroyer. (Don't tell me "Wait till he stops spinning" like it ever happens)

Since I'm using mine toss, instead of my KD skill, maybe its logical. (Fine with that, just trying not to interact with 'em)

 

Have done over 1,000 matches, and the only class which needs to be immediately nerfed is a Gunner. None of other class can ruin your gameplay experience as this one.

[Nala]

1 hour ago, Egoist00 said:

LOL, have you seen the outlaw island solo dungeon, top 5 r SUM and they kill it in less than 10 sec.................how IDK but not even the fire gunner with max gear can do it in 30 sec lol

It is because people don't realize that gunner isn't even #1 top dps anymore, they just have good burst to start the fight but that drops quickly meanwhile summoner (wind build) is the 2nd highest dps and they can also just have cat take aggro and dps away.

[wZeroStyle]

3 minutes ago, Nala said:

It is because people don't realize that gunner isn't even #1 top dps anymore, they just have good burst to start the fight but that drops quickly meanwhile summoner (wind build) is the 2nd highest dps and they can also just have cat take aggro and dps away.

You don't care that much about their dps going down quickly, when your whole party laying dead. Do you?

[Nala]

9 minutes ago, wZeroStyle said:

You don't care that much about their dps going down quickly, when your whole party laying dead. Do you?

I don't care for pvp and the topic was pve (outlaw island)

[Skynemis]

The topic is Overpowered Classes, not outlaw island.

While there are other strong classes and people have argued that each one is overpowered/underpowered I feel like gunner is one that is obviously broken and needs to be dealt with first for the sake of enjoying 6v6 a bit more again. The 1v6 potential that's constantly demonstrated from the time it was released in N/A to have left me feeling at a loss when seeing a decently geared gunner on the other team. From reading their skills and only having a few encounters that are none just burst I would say they lack other areas such as CC that would make it fun to play/fight them.

[Egoist00]

3 minutes ago, Skynemis said:

The topic is Overpowered Classes, not outlaw island.

Did you read what's been said above? its was regard to an overpowered class in outlaw island.

[Nala]

5 minutes ago, Skynemis said:

The topic is Overpowered Classes, not outlaw island.

If you read then you would see what I was responding to.

[ClassicMan]

12 minutes ago, Skynemis said:

While there are other strong classes and people have argued that each one is overpowered/underpowered I feel like gunner is one that is obviously broken and needs to be dealt with first for the sake of enjoying 6v6 a bit more again. The 1v6 potential that's constantly demonstrated from the time it was released in N/A to have left me feeling at a loss when seeing a decently geared gunner on the other team. From reading their skills and only having a few encounters that are none just burst I would say they lack other areas such as CC that would make it fun to play/fight them.

Or how about they fix all of them? Ncsoft is more than capable of balancing out every class and releasing the patch all at once. I see a lot of people mentioning gunner because it is overpowered but say nothing about fixing the classes that are underpowered. I guess because it benefits you to fight a class much weaker than your own, maybe?

[Skynemis]

Your response was referring to outlaw island but the topic of the post is about overpowered classes which includes both pve and pvp.

[Nala]

2 minutes ago, Skynemis said:

Your response was referring to outlaw island but the topic of the post is about overpowered classes which includes both pve and pvp.

The thread post topic is about overpowered classes. The topic of the comment I was quoting was outlaw island. So you must not be reading the posts above mine or just not comprehending what I'm saying. A topic is a subject matter that is discussed. The subject matter of the comment I quoted was outlaw island.

[Junamaki]

Nala is correct. To be fair if this is a broad post about overpowered classes and not specifically stating overpowered classes in pvp then wouldn't talking about overpowered classes in pve also be relevant? There are some classes that are overpowered in pve such as being able to reach higher ranks in outlaw island and toi where you gain rewards even with equal gear and in some cases maxed gear some classes have no chance of reaching the top ranks compared to some other classes that have lower gear or equal gear.

[Skynemis]

Overpowered classes can be referring to both PvE and PVP but the poster is mostly referring to PVP. Outlaw island is a PvE topic. At some point talking just about Outlaw island which is as you said is a PvE topic to the person who tried bring the topic back to PvP, would be going off topic to the main topic of the post. The title is broad but can't be pushed to solely PvE if it is started on pvp.