Threat For every Class pls, Sick of VT

[ombremq]

plebs VT : My threat candy is on cooldown.....Hold DPS i have no threat....Wait 2min...aggro switched, sry, reset...lets use the cheese strat to balance the dmg...hold dps red asura still at 30%...

Someone from Ncwest actually testing Something in this game? i know i repeat myself but how long this outrageous mech gonna last at VT? you build a dungeon that requiere "range tank" mech then have the decency to add at least a threat buff that last longer or any items we can buy in "special" and make it available everywhere ( talking about threat only ) so we could avoid those unecessary wipe and we wont have to wait for hours a tank, pretty much every classes can tank....you could also add threat option on the item you gonna relase wednesday instead of this 1AP boss increase "meme"

Addind threat option at least 50% perma bonus will solve a lot of problem in this game and make it more enjoyable

[amokk]

Wait another few months, lol. 

 

Meanwhile, have your raid learn how not to steal aggro from range tank and to even out the partys dps. 

Hundreds of other raids can do it, why can't you ?

 

Stealing aggro is really only possible in the beginning, once the bosses switch, the others can't really steal your aggro.

And since both bosses switch the teams, HP should even out after first phase. If not, have one side stop dps - aint that hard.

[ombremq]

look at this https://www.twitch.tv/videos/224988990 they all did a pretty good job but no threat ruined most of their try, this mech is just wrong i dont even know why trying to argue, this is broken , with this system its a nightmare for everyone trying this dungeon cause most of fresh VT raid is just 11people being there to train their range tank since its the hardest job and requiere skill but problem is we can no longer recruit skilled player for this job, to be a range tank its basically AP>skill...and having an entire raid stuck cause no tank at BT/VT or even a small pt struggling in a dungeon cause boss running everywhere if no KFM/BM its boring, a problem that could be solve by simply adding 50% threat bonus as option turn this game into an unpleasant experience.

So i could be selfish like you, since i have enough threat candy and my pt no longer wipes that much cause of aggro.... come here and say "learn to not steal aggro" but i won't i know perfectly how annoying this is, how stressed were the person we forced to tank cause they had the highest DPS but didnt fit the job, that was no longer fun and relaxing game for those person forced to take a job and all the pressure.

[FrozenB]

If it is the same player who kept on stealing aggro from range tank, then it is better to switch him to ice side. If you can't switch him due to classes limitation (due to CD on block skills), then just tell him to take off his Soul. In the end, Asura took damage mostly from self-damage mech by the end of each phase. A little bit of DPS loss won't matter anyways. After the player takes off the soul and still take aggro, then range tank dps has problem. It is better to find someone who can do consistent high DPS. Also, players on fire side should always pay attention to the DPS meter so that they won't out-dps the range tank, if they fail to do so, then that means they don't have enough experience in VT boss 1. If you have FM as range tank, then the only two classes that can steal aggro easily is gunner or sin with similar gears.

 

Also, there is -50% threat charms that people can craft as well. 

 

By introducing threat to every classes, it won't solve the problem. The person who stole aggro will gain threat as well. In the end, everything is the same.

[LemonCookie]

destroyers lost our 3 second threat with 9 second cd. Ripperoni in pepperoni 

[Athena84]

While agree that ranged classes need a way to generate threat it comes down to the raid group.  I'm a Warlock and I'm tanking Asura with not too many issues.  This is because my raid understands that my dps maybe be limited at times.  So what we do is during the soulburn everyone runs minimal dps to allow me to get the threat and hold it.  After that if I had to try hard to get orbs because of rng spawn issues I tell my raid group i'm not dpsing and everyone cuts back.  Mostly everyone tries not to go over 120k unless I tell them its ok.  Use your threat candies and get your raid group in line.  Communication is key set a dps threshold and no one goes over that.  It works for my group it might work for your's too.

[Fiana]

from what i see from korea server, they will add 100%+ threat in hm point, so all class can spec 10hm point on threat

but maybe it'll take 2-3 month or maybe more to be ready for NA

[Iwaylo]

so hard to stop dpsing for few seconds...  

watched 2 attempts of that twitch link of yours and the sin kept outdpsing the range tank so what do ya expect. 

[SilverFoxR]

Sure, give every class Threat... but you better give the legit tank classes more DPS to balance out the fact that you'd be taking their roles from them... and in the instance of KFM, make them almost useless, since, y'know, their threat generation is sometimes the only way they can maintain aggro against the majority of classes in the game. Otherwise, their overall DPS is lacking compared to a lot of classes.

[amokk]

23 hours ago, ombremq said:

look at this https://www.twitch.tv/videos/224988990 they all did a pretty good job but no threat ruined most of their try, this mech is just wrong i dont even know why trying to argue, this is broken , with this system its a nightmare for everyone trying this dungeon cause most of fresh VT raid is just 11people being there to train their range tank since its the hardest job and requiere skill but problem is we can no longer recruit skilled player for this job, to be a range tank its basically AP>skill...and having an entire raid stuck cause no tank at BT/VT or even a small pt struggling in a dungeon cause boss running everywhere if no KFM/BM its boring, a problem that could be solve by simply adding 50% threat bonus as option turn this game into an unpleasant experience.

So i could be selfish like you, since i have enough threat candy and my pt no longer wipes that much cause of aggro.... come here and say "learn to not steal aggro" but i won't i know perfectly how annoying this is, how stressed were the person we forced to tank cause they had the highest DPS but didnt fit the job, that was no longer fun and relaxing game for those person forced to take a job and all the pressure.

Why is it broken? ... This just shows that some of the raid members are too stupid to look at the dps meter. They should NEVER EVER be above the range tank - they need to watch their dps. And the 2nd time was the tanks fault - too close to mob.

[MassiveEgo]

1 minute ago, amokk said:

Why is it broken? ... This just shows that some of the raid members are too stupid to look at the dps meter. They should NEVER EVER be above the range tank - they need to watch their dps. And the 2nd time was the tanks fault - too close to mob.

I wouldn't say they were too stupid. More like outright wrong in the way they play. It's an ongoing trend to dps like the servers are closing tomorrow. This is no joke. You see someone aransu 6, gold badge and all that. You know you can't tank his/her full damage. You ask them to hold back a bit. The usual response is "hmph, learn to tank". It's kinda like all these people in the lowest purple dungeon that tell you not to die in the one shot fire when they rush. A claptrap could figure out what's wrong, but not them. They love their damage.

[FrozenB]

8 minutes ago, MassiveEgo said:

I wouldn't say they were too stupid. More like outright wrong in the way they play. It's an ongoing trend to dps like the servers are closing tomorrow. This is no joke. You see someone aransu 6, gold badge and all that. You know you can't tank his/her full damage. You ask them to hold back a bit. The usual response is "hmph, learn to tank". It's kinda like all these people in the lowest purple dungeon that tell you not to die in the one shot fire when they rush. A claptrap could figure out what's wrong, but not them. They love their damage.

It is fine. If they want to go full DPS, then they will need to tank the bosses. It will be less work for the tank too and he finally can enjoy pure DPS without worrying about boss attack rotation.

 

For VT raid, that's why people need to get static group or in-clan raid (and that's the bad feature in this game as you are forced to join a clan who can do their own raid. If you don't, you will have to find VT raid every week and it will be very painful because most likely, you will encounter someone who have little or no experience in VT so that every week you have to spend more than few hours just to clear boss 1 in VT). If you join different or random VT raid group every week, you won't be able to get any much further.

[ombremq]

You perfectly right FronzenB that why like you said the best way to do VT is to find a static but not everyone can/want to schedule raid everyweeks and ofc there is a lot of problem to fix when creating a pug raid, but this threat problem for range tank is seriously killing the fun, recruiting a "whale" to tank it is not easy... having soo many skilled players not able to take the job cause no threat make it worse... i am confident that a special branch to spec lets say 2 skill that increase threat for just 50% every classes will solve a lot of problem in this game and make it more enjoyable.

[XO]

Maybe they could introduce a threat gem? Just an idea~

[FrozenB]

4 hours ago, ombremq said:

You perfectly right FronzenB that why like you said the best way to do VT is to find a static but not everyone can/want to schedule raid everyweeks and ofc there is a lot of problem to fix when creating a pug raid, but this threat problem for range tank is seriously killing the fun, recruiting a "whale" to tank it is not easy... having soo many skilled players not able to take the job cause no threat make it worse... i am confident that a special branch to spec lets say 2 skill that increase threat for just 50% every classes will solve a lot of problem in this game and make it more enjoyable.

The only ones who can't range tank is melee classes. Just take the highest DPS range player in your raid to be range tank. If that player is not experience, then train him to be an experience range tank (no one was born to know how to tank without practice). If that player is not willing to, just take another high DPS player. If all range players don't want to, then it is better for you to replace all the range players in your raid group. I have seen all range class (except summoner) to be range tank in VT 1. 

 

Yes, PUG raid is lame. From September to December, when I was in previous clan, I always had to find PUG raid because my previous clan never took me to their VT raid. So, every week I had to find PUG raid in discord channel. Sometimes, I could clear VT boss 1-2 in few hours and sometimes even after 8-10 hours still couldn't clear boss 1. Also, it was very tiresome to find PUG raid every week as there were new people joining for sure. Also, sometimes I had to switch to different PUG raid due to being kicked out or being put into backup list from old PUG raids (because leaders want to put their friends/clan mates in the raid). Now that I found a new clan who could do in-clan raid, it was a lot smoother. We could even clear VT boss 3 and 4 in less than 1-2 hours every week.

 

I have tried to schedule VT raid before and you know what, it is not very hard to schedule VT raid, but sure it does take time. The toughest part is to get people to sign up before dead line. A lot of people just ignore the sign up process and then show up during VT raid and asking "Is there a slot in VT raid?" "Why am I not included in the VT raid?". Also, sometimes people signed up and never showed up for the raid. It happened a lot of times. 

 

 

[ombremq]

Le ‎09‎/‎02‎/‎2018 à 18:07, FrozenB a dit :

The only ones who can't range tank is melee classes. Just take the highest DPS range player in your raid to be range tank. If that player is not experience, then train him to be an experience range tank (no one was born to know how to tank without practice). If that player is not willing to, just take another high DPS player. If all range players don't want to, then it is better for you to replace all the range players in your raid group. I have seen all range class (except summoner) to be range tank in VT 1. 

It's not that simple being a range tank, it's a lot of pressure not everyone want to endorse such role knowing that one mistake =  your entire group wipe and people come here to have fun not be stressed... i created some pug raid and i had to quickly gear up some of my range class to be able to solve this problem asap instead of train every range for hours/days ...the thing is even if i still have some threat cookies (only 40 ), having to wait few sec/mins my threat CD cause an important role died is annoying and for newcomer trying to range tank without threat must be a nightmare, even i, the first time i tested this dungeon i was about to babyragequit for good knowing that our raid was dependent of a range tank trying hard to tank and taking a lot of dmg cause no block and on top of that had to ignore most of boss attack pattern to maintain a high dps.....

You create a BT raid with no tank, no1 can tank ? good luck....VT raid with range that got no tank knowledge/dps that surpass everyone & no threat= cancel it or wipes for hours , same goes for every dungeons when your unlucky and your team got almost same dps and boss start to jump everywhere....this problem could be solved by adding like "XO" said a threat gems or a threat item for the new slot they added or simply adding some 30min cd threat on daily special but nothing done and this company clearly underestimate how boring the game become without threat option and  adding more dungeon that requiere range/melee tank.

[FrozenB]

4 hours ago, ombremq said:

It's not that simple being a range tank, it's a lot of pressure not everyone want to endorse such role knowing that one mistake =  your entire group wipe and people come here to have fun not be stressed... i created some pug raid and i had to quickly gear up some of my range class to be able to solve this problem asap instead of train every range for hours/days ...the thing is even if i still have some threat cookies (only 40 ), having to wait few sec/mins my threat CD cause an important role died is annoying and for newcomer trying to range tank without threat must be a nightmare, even i, the first time i tested this dungeon i was about to babyragequit for good knowing that our raid was dependent of a range tank trying hard to tank and taking a lot of dmg cause no block and on top of that had to ignore most of boss attack pattern to maintain a high dps.....

You create a BT raid with no tank, no1 can tank ? good luck....VT raid with range that got no tank knowledge/dps that surpass everyone & no threat= cancel it or wipes for hours , same goes for every dungeons when your unlucky and your team got almost same dps and boss start to jump everywhere....this problem could be solved by adding like "XO" said a threat gems or a threat item for the new slot they added or simply adding some 30min cd threat on daily special but nothing done and this company clearly underestimate how boring the game become without threat option and  adding more dungeon that requiere range/melee tank.

I agree that finding good tanks is a nightmare. One way to deal with it is to put a WL at fire side. At the beginning during SB, only range tank should be attacking. Depending on the range tank DPS, the other members should hold attacks until SB wear off or when it starts the balls phases. This way, there is no way that other classes can out-dps the range tank. In fact, majority of the damage to boss comes from self-damage when the boss suck up the debuffs before the flowers spawn. The boss should be dead before 3rd healing phases begin anyways if your party has low DPS. (as long as the healing was done perfectly and no one missed the balls).

 

That's why forming static group is important. PUG group can only be worked if you have static tanks and keepers in your group already because rest of the members can easily be replaced. Sometimes, eve if the range tank claimed to be experience, but it can still fail a lot due to lack of chemistry with the keeper. To set up PUG raid, you should always fix the schedule based on your static tanks/keepers first before other people. So, that's why if you start a PUG raid, you should find someone who is not well experience and train them from beginning (players who don't have static raid group), then keep them in your PUG raid so that you don't have to find different tanks and re-train them every week. If you find an experienced tanks, most likely they already have a static group already, but just find a sub raid for a particular week.

 

Also, range tank should never block the red balls by himself/herself (to take 2 stacks at once) because the debuff dot damage does hurt a lot. Range tank should always share the balls with keeper (unless it is really bad RNG with spawn location). It is also better to have summoner and sf to heal whenever they can so that the range tank can keep DPS without stopping much. (that's another reason why I said gunner is a better choice to be range tank due to its high DPS and mobility). Remember that you only need 3 stacks (with 1 of the 3 stacks being shared after 5th ball to refresh the debuff to last through the healing phase). Usually, when we do it, we always share first 2 balls, then keeper will block rest of the balls by himself/herself. Then, keeper and range tank just have to find a chance to share either 5th, 6th or 7th ball. Rest of the time, range tank can just focus on DPS and dodging the boss attacks.