Infinity Tower "balance"

[Southwind]

Top 500 ranks from Infinity Tower in EU right now. 161 summoners and 3 force masters...

There must be some changes to this content, cause it is ridiculous

 

SUM 161

AS 73

BM 63
KFM 54

DES 51

WL 46

BD 33

SF 16
FM 3




 

[JatoJato]

It is only logical. Many classes have ranged-shield, fm has almost no pen and no burst and it is very difficult to lock the bot in the ice-1-stun combo... So what do you expect :D. 

SF seems to have similar probs and is mb not played by that much ppl.

AS, BM, KFM, DES can do some good stun and burst combos.

WL has much pen. 

Sum has much CC and much Pen...

[Southwind]

I know it is logical, it's not rocket sience, but there should be some balance fix applied to this.

Perfect average should be around 55 per class in top 500, now summoners has more than tripple average, and force masters more than 18-times less than average.

I know, perfect balance is impossible, but come one...3 out of 500? 

 

[JatoJato]

I play FM as well - so yeah i would support some "balance"... ^^

[Grimoir]

26 minutes ago, Southwind said:

I know it is logical, it's not rocket sience, but there should be some balance fix applied to this.

Perfect average should be around 55 per class in top 500, now summoners has more than tripple average, and force masters more than 18-times less than average.

I know, perfect balance is impossible, but come one...3 out of 500? 

 

Tower actually depends on a few things:

 

1. What soulshields are you using? (as this actually matters in tower) and stats

2. Skill build

3. Gear

4. "RNG" as certain opponents are easier than others.

5. you need to remember that you should not fight them like you would normal players in OWPVP or Arena (Learned that the hard way)

6. Each oponent has their own erm...let me call it "flaw" where under certain conditions they behave differently and you are able to burn them down a bit. Because a real player would act differently,

 

While on my summoner i can easily kill them (which isnt a issue) my problem is certain classes i kill too slow so i need to work on that.

[Grimoir]

Just now, JatoJato said:

Yes you are quite right.

But a sample of 500 is very good and the chance that for example FMs are less good geared than other classes is not as high as the difference between classes. In average in every class should be more or less the same amount of Skill/SS/Gear/Rng (i mean this the season is not 1 day young)/Playstile - so if one class is highly underrepresented in the ranking this is a quite good indicator that they have severe disadvantages in this modus.

Or perhaps some players just dont care as much about tower of infinity?

[JatoJato]

Yes you are quite right.

But a sample of 500 is very good and the chance that for example FMs are less good geared than other classes is not as high as the difference between classes. In average in every class should be more or less the same amount of Skill/SS/Gear/Rng (i mean this the season is not 1 day young)/Playstile - so if one class is highly underrepresented in the ranking this is a quite good indicator that they have severe disadvantages in this modus.

[Grimoir]

Or all those FM's created summoners :P

[Senndoh]

Tower is most RNG, you get the right opponent, you get the proper buff and you can climb it.

Indeed summoners need to shine as always.

[JatoJato]

5 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Or perhaps some players just dont care as much about tower of infinity?

Possible but highly unlickely that the number of players differs over different classes. This is a sample of 500 - so why should in particular fms (and only fms) don't care about the tower...

[Southwind]

8 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Tower actually depends on a few things:

1. What soulshields are you using? (as this actually matters in tower) and stats

2. Skill build

3. Gear

4. "RNG" as certain opponents are easier than others.

5. you need to remember that you should not fight them like you would normal players in OWPVP or Arena (Learned that the hard way)

6. Each oponent has their own erm...let me call it "flaw" where under certain conditions they behave differently and you are able to burn them down a bit. Because a real player would act differently,

 

While on my summoner i can easily kill them (which isnt a issue) my problem is certain classes i kill too slow so i need to work on that.

I have 676 Ap with True Scorpio atm, max accessory (without oath neck) stage 7 pet,  3 Challanger + 3 Sparring + 2 Naksun max fused with crit, build and tactics for each class taken from i think best Force Master EU - Bevv. So i think i am well prepared.

 

I never die there, but as an FM i need to sacrafice ton of damage changing build for IT, meaning no burst at all, i have less CC than others and at same time i am  very vulnerable for opponets cc, our chill/freeze barely works on those bots (for DES, BD or SF not all all). It all comes to fm class disadvantage, and it's highly unfair among all classes.

[JatoJato]

12 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

Or all those FM's created summoners :P

Kappa sure. Or all FMs earn that much more money in SSP and do not do any other stuff... Yeah - joke aside try to analyse the statistic and do not come with funny postings...

 

13 minutes ago, Senndoh said:

Tower is most RNG, you get the right opponent, you get the proper buff and you can climb it.

Indeed summoners need to shine as always.

Tower is Rng yes. But you can be quite sure that rng can be more or less completely neglected because we have a sample of 500. Or do you want to implicate that FMs have in general a worse rng than other classes (Class specific rng would be a problem too btw ;-) - uhh yeah conspiracy theories... ). 

Rng can be neglected because we see a quite large sample that was produced over time so in average every class has to have the same opponents at a point.

[Grimoir]

12 minutes ago, Southwind said:

I have 676 Ap with True Scorpio atm, max accessory (without oath neck) stage 7 pet,  3 Challanger + 3 Sparring + 2 Naksun max fused with crit, build and tactics for each class taken from i think best Force Master EU - Bevv. So i think i am well prepared.

 

I never die there, but as an FM i need to sacrafice ton of damage changing build for IT, meaning no burst at all, i have less CC than others and at same time i am  very vulnerable for opponets cc, our chill/freeze barely works on those bots (for DES, BD or SF not all all). It all comes to fm class disadvantage, and it's highly unfair among all classes.

I have a sparring / Challenger mix aswel but i infused mine with Piercing and a little bit of crit. The bots are also immune to most of summoner CC's aswel / get out of it each time.

 

I have it easier when i use the mechanics of those bots to beat them. for example a sin will not really go in stealth / attack as much if i stand against the wall, sin wont go in stealkth at all during the duration of my true friend buff so i have 5s of burst i can do freely, or SF / BM / BD wont come near me when i am standing inside my briar patch or roots.

[JatoJato]

15 minutes ago, Grimoir said:

I have a sparring / Challenger mix aswel but i infused mine with Piercing and a little bit of crit. The bots are also immune to most of summoner CC's aswel / get out of it each time.

 

I have it easier when i use the mechanics of those bots to beat them. for example a sin will not really go in stealth / attack as much if i stand against the wall, sin wont go in stealkth at all during the duration of my true friend buff so i have 5s of burst i can do freely, or SF / BM / BD wont come near me when i am standing inside my briar patch or roots.

Piercing is good - but you do not need too much. Also it has nothing to do with the sample of 500.

 

All your other arguments just show what the initator wanted to say - FM is at a disadvantage in the tower because there are different mechanics for fms.  Even if other classes have similar problems they manage to do more dmg and kill the bots faster - fm doesn't - and thats the problem.

 

And imho (i have a sum twink too) - sum is way easier to play in tower than fm. Also i did not have the problem that the bot can get out of the cc each time. I mean of course he will TAB the cat grabbel but that is pretty much what you would expect from any opponent because why should he let you do free dmg. Howerver after the grabbel (and if i assue you used it after the tab-charge-stun) you have still 1 root + defense disable (if HM) , 1 defense disable, 2 Dazes (2 and c), 1 iframe(+kb/kd if skilled) and 1 kd (2 if HM). Also the cat can do some aircombos, you can heal, you can be invinsible while attacking and you have some pretty nice lmb+rmb stuff (defense+parry pen - yeah) and you can buff the rmb with the 4 (if hm).

[KlausFlouride]

The issue with the Sum bot is they have no CD's above floor 20. They literally can spam stun/knock up/kd you and you can't get anywhere near the Sum. I have even tried outright killing the cat, their heals are ridiculous. Just think if a dungeon boss had no CD's on any skill and crazy high hp regen. I play an Sin and FM in there and yes the FM is significantly harder to do anything with, they just don't have enough CC's or escapes(sheath is laughable and the bots easily knock you out of it). Some of the AI are completely fubar: Sin's that barely attack and run around in circles, SF hits a few times and then backpedals out of your way to waste your entire clock(this is especially bad on my Sin), Destro only spins and doesn't do anything else, etc. Ah yes, and lastly, the miserable RNG on the SS. I believe it artificially low for the simple fact once you have 3+ pieces you'll never go in there again.

[Grimstar]

I'm also playing a fm, ranked 67 in overall class ranking, and i only reached F42. I guess a fm is the hardest class to do TOI with, since we have to chill/freeze the enemy to even start a combo. While those AI have so many escapes to get out of the chill/freeze.

 

Funny how almost every other class has reached F50+ in their top50 (probly also top 100) class ranking, while fm's struggle to even reach F45+.

Classes who have it easyest will probly be summoners (ofcourse), destroyers, bm and kfm, though warlock's have it easy to.

[Southwind]

Rank rewards are from class ranking, which is good, but imagine how hard is for force master to drop challenger soulshield 5-8. It should't be like that, cause those are best endgame pvp shields atm, and every class should have equal chance to get them.

[DeadlyCode]

Wow 3 FMs and 160+ Sums thats just sad, wish they really did something. Guessing things pvp related are just gonna get harder for FMs too since they're getting a nerf soon...

[Slyce]

The nerf isn't too bad. Higher CD on 16m Force Grip, 5% reduced healing from Divine Veil and Frost Armor (except 3min version).

FM usually does not die in IT but can't kill fast enough.

[Southwind]

33 minutes ago, Slyce said:

The nerf isn't too bad. Higher CD on 16m Force Grip, 5% reduced healing from Divine Veil and Frost Armor (except 3min version).

FM usually does not die in IT but can't kill fast enough.

But nerfing class which is at the bottom of almost every rankings if comes to % of top 100, 200 or 500 is a little bit unlogic in nice words. Cause it rather deserve boost in some cases.

[Zedonia]

5 minutes ago, Southwind said:

Cause it rather deserve boost in some cases.

Buffing LMB, RMB and 2 to ignore all kinds of parry, block and deflect would be fair. The defense skills of all classes are simply not balanced for pvp while they are ok for pve.

[Southwind]

36 minutes ago, Zedonia said:

Buffing LMB, RMB and 2 to ignore all kinds of parry, block and deflect would be fair. The defense skills of all classes are simply not balanced for pvp while they are ok for pve.

Would be really helpfull, but other classes will be triggered as they want to maintain current advantage in pvp. 

[Slyce]

FM has two 6 second defense disable skills and a few skills that can ignore defense. Actually 2 is one of them.

Top skilled players in Korea perform really well with FM but it takes a lot of skill to pull off everything a FM is able to do. Only a few players are able to.

 

PvP balancing patches are usually done only with the top performing players in mind. That's why summoners usually don't get nerfed as much. They have weaknesses which can be outplayed by almost every other class if the matchup is at a really high player skill level.

 

Also FMs need lot's of skill poins but in KR HM 12 is the endgame starting level while it is HM 5 here. Thats 10 additional skill points for a "new" character. HM 20 characters still have 7 more points than our HM15. And I don't think we have more than a handful of max level characters, yet.

 

 

[Southwind]

48 minutes ago, Slyce said:

FM has two 6 second defense disable skills

I have NEVER seen they worked on any bot at IT, they resist everything.

And first of all  it is not disabling defense, but defensive skills, however after i use them they still have blocks, escapes, infinite TAB etc, so what defensive skill they block?

[Slyce]

I have listed defensive skills in another thread a while ago. Every class except FM has exactly one defensive skill which is either Block or Counter.

Snowball only disables defense skills if it hits into that skill so it is most useful against BM, KFM, SF or WL as the skills of other classes have more than 6 sec CD on their skill.

Arial Force Grip -> Bolt Bash always disables.