So Bms now top dps

[Devilwithin]

6 hours ago, Suna said:

Fire build damage may feel higher than you think because it have no anicanel. If you compare lightning build honed slash + flicker with lightning buff, that do almost same damage than one fire rmb.

This.

I've tested both builds as soon as we got the patch and the difference is not that big. Fire does a lil more dmg than lightning.

 

[RDKillerITA]

4 hours ago, Devilwithin said:

This.

I've tested both builds as soon as we got the patch and the difference is not that big. Fire does a lil more dmg than lightning.

 

You are right.

But because of the worser focus drain in lightning build its a lot difficultier to remain in draw stance while in fire build its easier because dragon tongue doesn't consume any focus at all.

[Valiant]

13 hours ago, Kuronee said:

Well a least you admit your are to strong right now. You guys got some love and i have no problem with that, but you don't need a  11 to 13 Multiplier on a spammable skill. Imbalances in pve affects pvp to. Actually believe it or not. BMs are still one of the top dps in Korea with the new patch and changes.. You are a tank class don't need the dps to match the dps classes like fm/sm/sin/ .All they have to do is just reduce dragon tongue damage a bit. That is all nothing else is wrong with BM.

 

Also people say that Bm was shitty and useless before this patch you are wrong. You still tanked well and did tons of damage with lighting build. You have HM block and did just fine. Before HM block patch i will agree bms were not that great. They got buffed which was a nice thing but the damage on dragon tongue is to much. Makes them way to strong in pvp.

 

Anyway i am surprised this thread has so many pages

You know what make me laugh at this point of game, How you say BM have tank and don't need to have that huge dps to match summoner/FM/Sin
While on other hand,my shit class (Destroyer ) Got no dps to match anything , got no Iframe, Got no Tank ability or helpful for party
So be grateful anyway for what you got xD

[Kuronee]

34 minutes ago, Valiant said:

You know what make me laugh at this point of game, How you say BM have tank and don't need to have that huge dps to match summoner/FM/Sin
While on other hand,my shit class (Destroyer ) Got no dps to match anything , got no Iframe, Got no Tank ability or helpful for party
So be grateful anyway for what you got xD

see what funny about this is that destroyer actually does have a off tank ability. I agree with you though that destroyer is really not that great of a dps. The buffs were good but just how the kit is. kind of *cricket*s up the destroyer. You do more damage then a kfm I believe

 

This though BM doesn't need  the huge dps on dragon tongue. Just nerf the modifier so it is more Balance in pve and pvp. I don't even see lighting bms anymore..

 

 

destroyer gets stronger later on in think

[Madarame]

Fire is way better than lightning in pve mainly cuz u dont have to focus on ur chi and dont have to do all the anicancel. But in pvp..... MUCH LOVE for the Lightning Build!

[Valiant]

On 9/11/2016 at 6:05 PM, Kuronee said:

see what funny about this is that destroyer actually does have a off tank ability. I agree with you though that destroyer is really not that great of a dps. The buffs were good but just how the kit is. kind of *cricket*s up the destroyer. You do more damage then a kfm I believe

 

This though BM doesn't need  the huge dps on dragon tongue. Just nerf the modifier so it is more Balance in pve and pvp. I don't even see lighting bms anymore..

 

 

destroyer gets stronger later on in think

I did hear that they going to get strong with "Legendary" Acc and soulshield , But as you can see right now getting a *cricket*ing Neck or weapon of Category "Legendary" is hard shit and require alot of ingame time or real life money,
So either way that mean destroyer is p2w class either you got money to be strong or not, Which suck for a free player like me :/
 

And for fact KFM and Destroyer got the same level of dps, But atleast KFM can tank and support with fighting spirit while destroyer is just garbage at this point for tank or support skill other than grab cause most end game bosses not easy to cc or grab

 

That why me is jealous from BM right now, I know people will be like we was used to play shit BM before, But I tell them that your "Before" damage was like destroyer + ability to tank you got on yoru side 

[ComplaintsJudge]

To those who even thinks Kfm and Des have the same dps. And stating it as a fact.... then you are just wrong.

There are a few scenarios but the obvious ones are:

1. You do not play both Des and Kfm.

2. You play maybe, and you do not how Kfm works.

 

 

I suggest stating a fact as a fact rather than assumsion. Dont even call it a fact. 

[Valiant]

31 minutes ago, ComplaintsJudge said:

To those who even thinks Kfm and Des have the same dps. And stating it as a fact.... then you are just wrong.

There are a few scenarios but the obvious ones are:

1. You do not play both Des and Kfm.

2. You play maybe, and you do not how Kfm works.

 

 

I suggest stating a fact as a fact rather than assumsion. Dont even call it a fact. 

I didn't call it fact, I just saying cause someone said KFM is lower in dps than destroyer so it assume 
So correct me :)

[DevilTDriver]

KFM dps is not low. There's a video of one with only 704 AP that soloed Naksun in 57 seconds. I like to see a destroyer do that.

[ComplaintsJudge]

5 hours ago, Valiant said:

I didn't call it fact, I just saying cause someone said KFM is lower in dps than destroyer so it assume 
So correct me :)

Yes you did. Read your comment above mine. "And for fact...."

 

 

[Valiant]

8 hours ago, DevilTDriver said:

KFM dps is not low. There's a video of one with only 704 AP that soloed Naksun in 57 seconds. I like to see a destroyer do that.

It will never happen, 

[katashi90]

On ‎12‎/‎9‎/‎2016 at 8:56 AM, Kuronee said:

Well a least you admit your are to strong right now. You guys got some love and i have no problem with that, but you don't need a  11 to 13 Multiplier on a spammable skill. Imbalances in pve affects pvp to. Actually believe it or not. BMs are still one of the top dps in Korea with the new patch and changes.. You are a tank class don't need the dps to match the dps classes like fm/sm/sin/ .All they have to do is just reduce dragon tongue damage a bit. That is all nothing else is wrong with BM.

 

Also people say that Bm was shitty and useless before this patch you are wrong. You still tanked well and did tons of damage with lighting build. You have HM block and did just fine. Before HM block patch i will agree bms were not that great. They got buffed which was a nice thing but the damage on dragon tongue is to much. Makes them way to strong in pvp.

 

Anyway i am surprised this thread has so many pages

As long as BM is a tank, how is this dps overbuff a problem in pve? If anyone's thinking of rolling over to a BM for the sake of this godly dps, please don't. Not especially IF you've never tried tanking before.....

 

The pvp fire build damage does need a nerf tho.

[Shiro]

Whoever said KFM dps is low is clueless. Just because fire BM is broken right now doesn't mean kfm dps is garbage (except if you don't know how to play it of course), compare it with other classes instead.

 

 

No WL in this run, and before you get the wrong idea it's not about out-dpsing my teammates but about the 44k dps I got in 4 man tomb last boss. Also no idea why it only says I hit Tremor "1" times, it's obviously way more than that lol

 

And don't forget KFM buffs the whole party with blue buff, so part of other ppl's dps is also kfm's merit. In fact, kfm can go solo blue buff, and I seriously doubt there's any class that will compete with that, even fire BM atm (remember that solo blue buff is even better for kfm than party one, AND party members won't get the buff that is kfm's merit)

[DriftingSoul]

saying bm can tank in instances therefore they should not have dps is the most ridiculous bs. In the first place, every class can tank as mentioned in bns dojo the tanking system here is unlike in other games where you need a dedicated tank to soak damage because you can move around and dps on the boss and use cds or q/e to mitigate or avoid dmg. In ffixiv, when you select a class and do instances, it will say you are tank, healer or dps. In WoW, you have to respec to tank to be a tank. In BnS i never queue for tanking roles yet having people demanding i should tank is ridiculous. When i select to play a blademaster, there is nothing that mention blademaster is a class used for tanking in instances.

 

 

When i see players saying BMs are a tank class by standing their and spam block, i am wondering are these people paid accounts that have never even touch bns ? because it certainly does seem that way to me LMAO. Nobody complained about summoner or sf , well they did, but not because that they are supposedly a "healing" class, therefore they should be nerfed. So BMs are tanks and should be complained if their dps is high, but not summoners and sfs when they are "healers"? do these people even see how ridiculous their argument sounds like?

 

 

Some more, assuming if BMs are tank, and BM dps are nerfed because of this ridiculous reason and not because of balance (and the poster above has already pointed out kfm can do better dps then fire bm so its all bs about bm being op) then how would bms do mushin tower and tower of infinity? would that then be acceptable that bms should suffer dps disadvantage in solo instances because they are a supposedly "tank" class, which offer no benefits whatsoever other then carry those players who dont know how to use their skills in instances? ridiculous people, i didn't play bns just to spoonfeed you guys rofl.

[Kuronee]

9 minutes ago, DriftingSoul said:

saying bm can tank in instances therefore they should not have dps is the most ridiculous bs. In the first place, every class can tank as mentioned in bns dojo the tanking system here is unlike in other games where you need a dedicated tank to soak damage because you can move around and dps on the boss and use cds or q/e to mitigate or avoid dmg. In ffixiv, when you select a class and do instances, it will say you are tank, healer or dps. In WoW, you have to respec to tank to be a tank. In BnS i never queue for tanking roles yet having people demanding i should tank is ridiculous. When i select to play a blademaster, there is nothing that mention blademaster is a class used for tanking in instances.

 

 

Some more, assuming if BMs are tank, and BM dps are nerfed because of this ridiculous reason and not because of balance (and the poster above has already pointed out kfm can do better dps then fire bm so its all bs about bm being op) then how would bms do mushin tower and tower of infinity? would that then be acceptable that bms should suffer dps disadvantage in solo instances because they are a supposedly "tank" class, which offer no benefits whatsoever other then carry those players who dont know how to use their skills in instances? ridiculous people, i didn't play bns just to spoonfeed you guys rofl.

You are being spoon fed by your own class because  it is broken . I never said BMS shouldn't have dps. I Said they shouldn't  be top dps and shouldn't be doing more damage then dps classes. Fire BM is broken on damage  needs nerf. Only thing it needs nerf is dragon tongue. reduce the multipliers on that and then class is balanced..You are a tank class. Your Job is to tank, keep the boss still and soak danage. While doing some danage to keep threat up. BMS have Hm block and other party defense skills
 

What are you talking about. You had plenty of damage before this patch and did Mushin tower and ss Plains just fine. You do realize having imbalance in damage factors over to pvp. You have lighting build

 

36 minutes ago, Shiro said:

Whoever said KFM dps is low is clueless. Just because fire BM is broken right now doesn't mean kfm dps is garbage (except if you don't know how to play it of course), compare it with other classes instead.

 

 

No WL in this run, and before you get the wrong idea it's not about out-dpsing my teammates but about the 44k dps I got in 4 man tomb last boss. Also no idea why it only says I hit Tremor "1" times, it's obviously way more than that lol

 

And don't forget KFM buffs the whole party with blue buff, so part of other ppl's dps is also kfm's merit. In fact, kfm can go solo blue buff, and I seriously doubt there's any class that will compete with that, even fire BM atm (remember that solo blue buff is even better for kfm than party one, AND party members won't get the buff that is kfm's merit)

Desolate tomb doesn't count because all the damage buff it gives. That doesn't show what gear everyone has. Also if you are the shiro Eu top pvp rankings. From what I see you out skill and have better ping the 90% of the kfm on NA/EU. also did the assassin have hm blue buff

 

kfm dps is low, just like destroyers is. You also gotta judge ping and skill into the factor and who was doing mechanics

[DriftingSoul]

16 minutes ago, Kuronee said:

You are being spoon fed by your own class because  it is broken . I never said BMS shouldn't have dps. I Said they shouldn't  be top dps and shouldn't be doing more damage then dps classes. Fire BM is broken on damage  needs nerf. Only thing it needs nerf is dragon tongue. reduce the multipliers on that and then class is balanced..You are a tank class. Your Job is to tank, keep the boss still and soak danage. While doing some danage to keep threat up. BMS have Hm block and other party defense skills
 

What are you talking about. You had plenty of damage before this patch and did Mushin tower and ss Plains just fine. You do realize having imbalance in damage factors over to pvp. You have lighting build

 

Desolate tomb doesn't count because all the damage buff it gives. That doesn't show what gear everyone has. Also if you are the shiro Eu top pvp rankings. From what I see you out skill and have better ping the 90% of the kfm on NA/EU. also did the assassin have hm blue buff

 

kfm dps is low, just like destroyers is. You also gotta judge ping and skill into the factor and who was doing mechanics

 

*facepalm*, you obviously have little clue on classes. Please do not embarass yourself further. I think based on what you have posted this is my best reply i can give to you.

[katashi90]

4 minutes ago, Kuronee said:

I Said they shouldn't  be top dps and shouldn't be doing more damage then dps classes. Fire BM is broken on damage  needs nerf. Only thing it needs nerf is dragon tongue. reduce the multipliers on that and then class is balanced..You are a tank class. Your Job is to tank, keep the boss still and soak danage. While doing some danage to keep threat up. BMS have Hm block and other party defense skills.

That's what it is. Your mindset believing all classes were made for a specific purpose is disturbing. All classes can tank. Even FMs could tank(and I'm not referring to kiting, mind you). According to your logic, a class that block/parry/garners aggro shouldn't be top dps? You might as well get the developers remove anything that doesn't fit the class style :

 

1. FM's Divine Veil/Ice Sheath (Why need em when they're perceived as wizard/mage type 'DPS' class?)

2. SF's Heal/Resurrection (Makes no sense a melee-ranged 'DPS' class could heal/mass revive a party)

3. Summoner's Stealth (Isn't that a Sin thing?)

4. Warlock's block (For a range class?)

 

@Kuronee Should we nerf these too? Your comments into labelling tanks shows you've probably never tanked before. If I'm applying the same mindset like you do, I'd have all ranged classes be the marker/ball driver in the next Hell Furnace. I wonder what kind of excuses they'll(players thinking they only 'DPS') come up with for that.

[Kuronee]

26 minutes ago, katashi90 said:

That's what it is. Your mindset believing all classes were made for a specific purpose is disturbing. All classes can tank. Even FMs could tank(and I'm not referring to kiting, mind you). According to your logic, a class that block/parry/garners aggro shouldn't be top dps? You might as well get the developers remove anything that doesn't fit the class style :

 

1. FM's Divine Veil/Ice Sheath (Why need em when they're perceived as wizard/mage type 'DPS' class?)

2. SF's Heal/Resurrection (Makes no sense a melee-ranged 'DPS' class could heal/mass revive a party)

3. Summoner's Stealth (Isn't that a Sin thing?)

4. Warlock's block (For a range class?)

 

@Kuronee Should we nerf these too? Your comments into labelling tanks shows you've probably never tanked before. If I'm applying the same mindset like you do, I'd have all ranged classes be the marker/ball driver in the next Hell Furnace. I wonder what kind of excuses they'll(players thinking they only 'DPS') come up with for that.

You have no idea what classifies as  tank do you? Attacking me wont do anything.

 

1.Actually Divine veil/ice sheath is getting nerfed

2. Considering SF is a combo class of KFM/FM and it was originally thought of as  more support class till it got buffed. Which the healing also got nerfed on it btw.

3. Summoner stealth doesn't equal assassin stealth.

4. Considering Warlock has barely any iframes and escapes compared to other ranges classes. Block doesn't really do much. Warlock wouldn;t be able to hold aggro if he was just blocking. Also warlock shouldn't be blocking at all in pve unless he is up close and personal with the boss or using the iframe version of F

 

I could say the same thing with assassin then. They have blue buff but that is KFM thing. Shouldn't that be removed?

 

First of all FM should not be tanking at all. A good BM would never let a Fm have aggro because BMs generate tons of threat with their skills.  Same with KFM. They have threat generating skills that builds up to hold  the aggro. BM and KFM are  the tanks whether you believe it or not. BM doesn't need to out dps other classes it fill it roll. BNS is a not a True trinity game like WoW. It is a half and half game. It has trinity elements but not full fledge

 

Also Summoner heal > SF heal. Actually most of the mechanics in the new dungeons bud are done by the range classes. If you see the new 24man man. Lot of the mechanics was done by the Summoners.

 

Ill make my point final on this. BM and KFM are tanks. Destroyer was suppose to be  a off tank but it would actually be stupid to spec taunt on destroyer. When did i ever say parrry,block should be considered tanking? Threat generating skills is what considers a tank a tank.  BMS should not be nerfed into the ground no, but DRAGON TONGUE ONLY SHOULD BE NERFED. Nerfed to the ground? no that would be silly. Bring it down to what the other classes spammable skills are at then it is will be fine.

 

Huge modifier results in imbalances in pvp. I am assuming you are BM so. So when you get Nerf and no longer top dps. Espically with the legendary SS not giving you anything good compared to other classes. You will probably be asking for a nerf to other classes.

 

Now all serious this thread is getting out of hand. Talk Civil people and actually use your brain. I don't care if BM can do damage. but it does to much damage. A FM tanking would risk a party wipe and not go well in places like desolate tomb. One last thing about  is i only said nerf dragon tongue.  Because every BM is riding its bandwagon and abusing it because it is currently broken for now. Lighting BM is fine, Rest of fire BM is fine.

[katashi90]

2 hours ago, katashi90 said:

As long as BM is a tank, how is this dps overbuff a problem in pve? If anyone's thinking of rolling over to a BM for the sake of this godly dps, please don't. Not especially IF you've never tried tanking before.....

 

The pvp fire build damage does need a nerf tho.

I'm quoting my previous post since you didn't read it. It was directed at you. This post sums up as my answer to you.

 

P.S. DPS is not a role. So how much damage a tank does doesn't matter as long as he's the one getting the aggro. It is an issue in pvp, but not certainly in pve.

[Shiro]

58 minutes ago, Kuronee said:

omb doesn't count because all the damage buff it gives. That doesn't show what gear everyone has. Also if you are the shiro Eu top pvp rankings. From what I see you out skill and have better ping the 90% of the kfm on NA/EU. also did the assassin have hm blue buff

 

kfm dps is low, just like destroyers is. You also gotta judge ping and skill into the factor and who was doing mechanics

Apparently even mentionig it in my post didn't matter I somehow knew someone like you will fail to see my point so I will say it again.

 

I don't care I out dps'd my teammates, of course there's mechanics and buffs in that fight. But the point was only my DPS alone, the 44k. I know it's not possible in other dungeons with no buffs, but I challenge you to get 50k+ dps on any class at that boss with no warlock and then come back with your facts that kfm dps is "low". I mean if kfm dps is low and got 44k dps on it, surely 50k is not hard for a "high" dps class right?

 

And if a kfm specs solo blue buff no other class will come close

 

Also ping is not a valid excuse, just because X has high ping doesn't mean they will do 50k dps, it only means they cannot even compete. You have to prove it's easy to get 50k dps without warlock, and then kfm will be trash dps, but not with excuses that don't prove anything.

[Zedonia]

It's true, KFM damage is not low, not at all. Without the blue buff (I mean completely without) the damage would not be that great but as Shiro said, if the KFM has the buff, all other have it, too.

 

But tomb isn't a good place to compare damage. The tank (2) will usually have the most buff uptime what let BM and KFM look extremely strong there compared with the other party members. I'm not sure who did what in that run but I bet Shiro was tank (2). Switch that position with whatever the FM did and he will top dps, definitely. Well, no need to discuss that. I only want to say that posting screens from tomb is really bad for comparing.

[Shiro]

It doesn't matter that much because he dies before 8th grab (or during it) in my runs. Also I run purple dailies every day too and most of the time I am top dps, so I don't think tomb is that much different. Actually I end up as top even before the first chain lightning in that fight anyway (but not immediately, as soon as my searing palm stacks to 4 though)

[Kuronee]

15 minutes ago, Shiro said:

It doesn't matter that much because he dies before 8th grab (or during it) in my runs. Also I run purple dailies every day too and most of the time I am top dps, so I don't think tomb is that much different. Actually I end up as top even before the first chain lightning in that fight anyway (but not immediately, as soon as my searing palm stacks to 4 though)

You also have around 750 ap though compared to most people who dont have that much. i am pretty sure if Sin used solo blue buff to and had HM. He would be top dps. Well it is kind of hard for me to actually go without a warlock. Considering i am a warlock. Also actually yes ping does factor a lot in pve and so does gear/skill.  If you have around 30 ping or below. You are going to get more attacks off that are faster and more fluid.

[Shukran]

well, @Shiro it is easy to play with 20ms and anicancel like god. it is also easy to share a dps meter in which there is no BM and in which u are hm12 with prolly a quite godly equip.

 

but ok. one player in entire BnS NA/EU against every other single player in those 2 servers makes statistically everyone wrong. +1

 

a bit like your video about naksum done with 520ap... sure. everyone that plays BnS got those years of experience in other servers before. everyone else has good fps/ms.

 

thanks for sharing.

[Mhysa]

2 hours ago, Shiro said:

Apparently even mentionig it in my post didn't matter I somehow knew someone like you will fail to see my point so I will say it again.

 

I don't care I out dps'd my teammates, of course there's mechanics and buffs in that fight. But the point was only my DPS alone, the 44k. I know it's not possible in other dungeons with no buffs, but I challenge you to get 50k+ dps on any class at that boss with no warlock and then come back with your facts that kfm dps is "low". I mean if kfm dps is low and got 44k dps on it, surely 50k is not hard for a "high" dps class right?

 

And if a kfm specs solo blue buff no other class will come close

 

Also ping is not a valid excuse, just because X has high ping doesn't mean they will do 50k dps, it only means they cannot even compete. You have to prove it's easy to get 50k dps without warlock, and then kfm will be trash dps, but not with excuses that don't prove anything.

This is already linked in an earlier post in this thread: https://imgur.com/wyN8ATU. Party composition BM, FM, DES, KFM with BM doing 52k (FM was gaze).

 

Here is the newest record https://imgur.com/a/3zJCv (as position 3, so add another 5% for position 2). 

 

What I find a bit broken about fire BM now is that dragontougue under conflagration buff is AOE. It's like a super super super sunflower.