Why did i even farm...

[JatoJato]

20 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

No, we understand you perfectly.

 

the answer is that you already got your reward - by getting the gear set and all the advantages of being one of the very few for weeks and months.

 

if this is not worth it to you, by all means, wait till your set is below average before updating again. 

 

You can then enjoy being a part of the Non-geared majority.

If you understand me perfectly - why do you talk in your answer about premium prices - when i try hard to show that prices are not my concern. They rise of fall and i can not do anything about that.

And i have to contradict your opinion - i got what i paid for. This is not a reward this is just the fruits of my personal work. The reward would be sth i hope for because the only thing i want is to also get sth from the changes... Nothing more - nothing less.

So yeah - mb i do that - because you do not need 650-700ap for the dungeons - you just need 550 ap and you can do each dungeon very comfortable. The only difference is - it costs you a bit more time - and you actually have to do some mechanics - and yes i speak from experience because my twink is in this ap range and i can do every dungeon i want with him...

But if every player think so - do you think it benefits the game in general ? 

[JatoJato]

6 hours ago, Suna said:

It is always like that in mmo games, old content get nerfed so players can catch up easier for more relevant content. 

Yes - old content - also a point i spoke about earlier - like the moonwater price reduction - this was old content and not a single person in the world cared about it. Now why was that, right - because the stuff you needed there did not matter anymore - unfortunately the stuff you need to come to scorpio is the same you need for legendary - so it is far away from beeing irrelevant.

[Brand X]

24 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

Ok - i have a question - is it because ppl do not read the diskussion or aren't they not able to understand because im not a native english speaker?

The problem is NOT the  MARCET PRICE REDUCTION - this is a normal behaviour in a market. I just wanted to show that upgrading is cheaper anyway. The problem for me is the fact that ppl do not even have to get the same NUMBER OF MATERIAL (im not talking about gold-value) and that i as senior player (yes i see myself at that) would like to have at least some kind of reward for my personal efforts. 

You got a reward for it.  It's called being on the high side of the curve when it came to it all.  :p  Guess who likely did those new dungeons first and succeeded?  You!  Got the awesome loot from it?  You!  That's your reward...also the reward of playing a good game :)

5 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

If you understand me perfectly - why do you talk in your answer about premium prices - when i try hard to show that prices are not my concern. They rise of fall and i can not do anything about that.

And i have to contradict your opinion - i got what i paid for. This is not a reward this is just the fruits of my personal work. The reward would be sth i hope for because the only thing i want is to also get sth from the changes... Nothing more - nothing less.

So yeah - mb i do that - because you do not need 650-700ap for the dungeons - you just need 550 ap and you can do each dungeon very comfortable. The only difference is - it costs you a bit more time - and you actually have to do some mechanics - and yes i speak from experience because my twink is in this ap range and i can do every dungeon i want with him...

But if every player think so - do you think it benefits the game in general ? 

One of your first mistakes was playing a game and calling it work.  :p

 

I do think it benefits the game in general.  The general player base wants to continue leveling.  If it feels like it will take forever and ever...well...this isn't the Everquest crowd kind of game anymore.  Yes, some grinding involved, but the majority of a player base doesn't want to spend that kind of time on a game.

[JatoJato]

6 minutes ago, Brand X said:

You got a reward for it.  It's called being on the high side of the curve when it came to it all.  :p  Guess who likely did those new dungeons first and succeeded?  You!  Got the awesome loot from it?  You!  That's your reward...also the reward of playing a good game :)

One of your first mistakes was playing a game and calling it work.  :p

 

I do think it benefits the game in general.  The general player base wants to continue leveling.  If it feels like it will take forever and ever...well...this isn't the Everquest crowd kind of game anymore.  Yes, some grinding involved, but the majority of a player base doesn't want to spend that kind of time on a game.

Ok my twink has true breeze - a gear i think most player can afford at the moment - at least if they play on a daily basis. And guess what - yeah he can do every dungeon in every version (6 or 4-man) - the only difference is - as i said earlier that you save a little time and you have to know the mechanics of a dungeon... Do you know what i am think why not all ppl do 4-man dungeons - because they are to lazy to learn mechanics (only with high ap you can brain-afk-go-yolo in a 4-man) and/or they are affraid that it coud fail (it is a litle bit harder after all) and do not waste their time.

 

Yeah - a game is not work, but there are still some things that are more fun than others - but if you want to come ahead, look at your ap and be happy you sometimes have to do things that are not as fun as others.

Also as i said i am not a native english speaker - and in my language i would have found a word that describes what i mean.

 

Yeah - you are absolutely right. In general this is a good change - but did i ever say something against that. No - i even pointed out the fact that i think the change is good. The only thing that i critisized was that for me and others in the same boat with me it woud be nice to get something as a kind of reward/compensation for the things we had accomplished. And this would neither hurt ncsoft nor the players with less gear... 

[Rhy]

Oh this is most excellent, please do go on, I'm loving it. People complaining about a great change.

 

PS: Stage 4 legendary and I had to earn every bit of it, I couldn't care less~~~~

PSS: If you want to know what's coming in the future, go check out TW or JP servers, they all got the same thing we're getting. 

[Brand X]

7 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

Yeah - you are absolutely right. In general this is a good change - but did i ever say something against that. No - i even pointed out the fact that i think the change is good. The only thing that i critisized was that for me and others in the same boat with me it woud be nice to get something as a kind of reward/compensation for the things we had accomplished. And this would neither hurt ncsoft nor the players with less gear... 

And I disagree that you or any one who got that high by farming more mats and spending longer hours in the game, need to be compensated.  While not in this game, I have been on the higher side in other MMOs (at least till I backed off) and never did I think i deserved or needed compensation for that time spent.  That time spent was because I wanted to be in that top tier (or try to be) which is exactly what you did.

 

It's like buying a car.  I can buy that brand new car, by working hard and then spending top dollar, or I can wait 1 to 2 years and see it drop in price considerably.  Wait for that holiday sale they always do. :p

 

Your compensation, was being all awesomely geared. :)

[JatoJato]

17 minutes ago, Rhy said:

Oh this is most excellent, please do go on, I'm loving it. People complaining about a great change.

 

PS: Stage 4 legendary and I had to earn every bit of it, I couldn't care less~~~~

PSS: If you want to know what's coming in the future, go check out TW or JP servers, they all got the same thing we're getting. 

Quick correction - noone is complaining about the change. It is the additional aspects of the change ;-)

14 minutes ago, Brand X said:

And I disagree that you or any one who got that high by farming more mats and spending longer hours in the game, need to be compensated.  While not in this game, I have been on the higher side in other MMOs (at least till I backed off) and never did I think i deserved or needed compensation for that time spent.  That time spent was because I wanted to be in that top tier (or try to be) which is exactly what you did.

 

It's like buying a car.  I can buy that brand new car, by working hard and then spending top dollar, or I can wait 1 to 2 years and see it drop in price considerably.  Wait for that holiday sale they always do. :p

 

Your compensation, was being all awesomely geared. :)

Noone wants a compensation for the time they spent. At least not to my knowledge.

 

Yes, you are great with rl-examples - and i think they are really good. Only problem is they are a bit off. Yes after 2 years not a single one would complain. But what are the two years - are that the 4-5month in silverfrost or is it the moonwater area. On last noone said anything - and why should they... There is no point in it -> car old == materials are not needed anymore => no complaints.

 

And btw, even if your example would be good, the cost-reduction is already in place and noone did complain about that ;-)  or at least i did not read about that. And all players that did speak about the market prices - i tried to remind that this is not the point of the discussion.

[Prototypemind]

If you chose to grind it out for hours a day, then your reward was getting the item earlier on. You chose to put in the time, you got compensated for it with your weapon/accessories. To many, myself included, the time requirements were ridiculous, so most either played casually and took gains as they came or just walked away from the game. This change may actually get me playing again. It's certainly going to help a lot more than it's going to hurt. Things change, that's life. In this case there really shouldn't be a refund. This is one of the few games where I've actually seen players actually complaining about reduction in the grind required to stay relevant in the game.

[DomiSotto]

5 minutes ago, Prototypemind said:

If you chose to grind it out for hours a day, then your reward was getting the item earlier on. You chose to put in the time, you got compensated for it with your weapon/accessories. To many, myself included, the time requirements were ridiculous, so most either played casually and took gains as they came or just walked away from the game. This change may actually get me playing again. It's certainly going to help a lot more than it's going to hurt. Things change, that's life. In this case there really shouldn't be a refund. This is one of the few games where I've actually seen players actually complaining about reduction in the grind required to stay relevant in the game.

Which is symptomatic of how bad the situation actually was, if the player tries to dictate to the developer what's acceptable to him as a gear for a 'casual' to preserve the 'gap' and the arms race superiority.  And if the 'gap' is not preserved, he haggles.

 

Just an example why the game is not a friendly place where everyone enjoys their time, no matter how much time they have to spend in it.

 

[JatoJato]

48 minutes ago, Prototypemind said:

If you chose to grind it out for hours a day, then your reward was getting the item earlier on. You chose to put in the time, you got compensated for it with your weapon/accessories. To many, myself included, the time requirements were ridiculous, so most either played casually and took gains as they came or just walked away from the game. This change may actually get me playing again. It's certainly going to help a lot more than it's going to hurt. Things change, that's life. In this case there really shouldn't be a refund. This is one of the few games where I've actually seen players actually complaining about reduction in the grind required to stay relevant in the game.

 

46 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

Which is symptomatic of how bad the situation actually was, if the player tries to dictate to the developer what's acceptable to him as a gear for a 'casual' to preserve the 'gap' and the arms race superiority.  And if the 'gap' is not preserved, he haggles.

 

Just an example why the game is not a friendly place where everyone enjoys their time, no matter how much time they have to spend in it.

 

I think you both read things that are not there. Not a single writer did complain about the changes in general - at least i did not notice it (and i tried to answer any relevant post and also tried to keep the ppl focused on the topic i wanted to discuss).

And if you think otherwise please show me a quote were someone did a complaint in this direction.

 

And to the gap - i couldn't care less if the average is 400,500,550,600,650,700 -> what does it matter to me? It is funny that the above average player always get complaints that they would be elite or sth. I can give you the reason why i personally would like to have a refund/reward/compensation (or call it whatever you like) -> this simply would allow me to gear up one of my twinks faster - so why do i do that - yeah as u might guessed i spend much time (mb too much) in this game - but this is my own decission. And yeah as i said grinding is boring - playing the same char the whole day is also - at least for me - so i want diversity and play different chars - unfortunately this is very expensive and even if you only want to play pvp - you have to do some pve for leveling and skill stuff (for example you need achievement points and i think stuff like siren emblems).

 

And yeah even if i farm much, mb have much - i do not know - because i do not care about what others have - 30-50% are much stuff for me.

[Brand X]

That's just it Jato, you are saying you deserve refund/reward/compensation, which is what we're saying, you're not entitled to.  Doesn't matter if the game has run 5 months instead of the 2 years others /might/ have run before a cost decrease.

 

You decided you wanted to farm like a mad man to be one of the ones people see and be all jelly of :p  Don't worry, many will still be that jelly.  And all those mats you farmed before, you will still have them (unless you decided to sell them) to give to your alts and wait to up their weapon.

[Eileithia]

Also - What if they were to reward everyone the difference in materials from Oathbreaker and up to whatever level they're at now.  The market would be FLOODED with materials and everything would be selling for copper.  Not everyone plays alts. I actually have friends who refuse to, even in games where it's extremely easy to do.

 

Granted, there's really no reason for an economy in this game, because there's no reason amass wealth, other than selling gold for HMCoin to buy stuff on the store. 

[JatoJato]

No im saying i would wish to have one. If i deserve it - i do not know. Intersting point for me is - why do you say that i or others do not deserve it - why do you not support our wish? Do you loose anything if you support us? 

 

It makes a difference for me - and i know for others because i heard and read so. And this is the only reason why i started this topic. I wanted to make ncsoft aware that there is a problem for some players - mb they do sth about it - mb not. 

 

And no the mats i farmed and invested are gone. So i do not have them any more - for all others that i posess or sold your statement is true.

[Prototypemind]

It's not a problem. You chose to grind, and you received your reward from doing so. Now you want your weapon/accessories as well as a refund of all the mats you put in. I could see if you paid real money for all the materials and bought them directly from NC, but you didn't.

[JatoJato]

Yeah thanks - tbh this is the most incomprehensible comment i read this night. Ok you have you opionion - my earlier question why you and a few others are so opposed to the wish i suggested is still standing and i didn't get an answer on this. But please enlighten me just in the next question i have -> Where do you see the difference between money and time -> the one is a substitute for the other - thats the way our economy works...

[hwalien]

21 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

No im saying i would wish to have one. If i deserve it - i do not know. Intersting point for me is - why do you say that i or others do not deserve it - why do you not support our wish? Do you loose anything if you support us? 

 

It makes a difference for me - and i know for others because i heard and read so. And this is the only reason why i started this topic. I wanted to make ncsoft aware that there is a problem for some players - mb they do sth about it - mb not. 

 

And no the mats i farmed and invested are gone. So i do not have them any more - for all others that i posess or sold your statement is true.

no offense but people will not support the idea that they do not agree on.

 

[DomiSotto]

29 minutes ago, JatoJato said:

No im saying i would wish to have one. If i deserve it - i do not know. Intersting point for me is - why do you say that i or others do not deserve it - why do you not support our wish? Do you loose anything if you support us? 

 

It makes a difference for me - and i know for others because i heard and read so. And this is the only reason why i started this topic. I wanted to make ncsoft aware that there is a problem for some players - mb they do sth about it - mb not. 

 

And no the mats i farmed and invested are gone. So i do not have them any more - for all others that i posess or sold your statement is true.

the rules relaxation on gearing benefits your alt greatly already, and you still have a geared main. Your main being in legendary means it will remain ahead of the pack for a few months anyway, while you can play your Alts and gear them up at reduced prices. You benefit from this update just like we all do, with an additional benefit of your main being able to farm for your Alts. Asking for additional concession when you already have plenty advantages and an access to every bit of content in the game to get as much stuff as you possibly can want and need is unlikely to get you a sympathy vote.

[JatoJato]

@hwalien np, none taken.

Yeah mb i have the wrong mindset. Generally i asses things the following way:

Advantages for me, Disatvantages for me and then i do a simple balance - if the advantages outweight the disatvantages its good and the other way it is bad.

As i understood it the ppl that are the most opposed are not in the same group than me - so they are not affected. So their advantages and disatvantages should be 0. But on the side of the advantages they might add some amount of value - because it is the same argument they used -> the playerbase in general is happier. So now the advantages outweight the disadvantages -> solution: grant support (or at least not argue against it).  

 

[Mitsuki S]

Realistically speaking, I do not think NC will compensate you for your time.  

 

This isn't work; you won't get compensation for any overtime you put into the game.  They essentially did that already, by providing the game and their services/servers to you.

 

Even if they did this time, where would we draw the line?  Would players start demanding compensation for time spent each time NC reduces material costs, provides more ways to get materials, or makes dungeons easier?  What if they did provide compensation and players thought it wasn't enough? 

[JatoJato]

I don't think so either, espercially because the community wishes much and ncsoft do not do really much in this direction - but the hope dies last. And tbh i like to discuss with ppl :-).

 

Also i do not want compensation for my time :D because if you are lucky you spend less time in a dungeon if you are unlucky you spend (a lot) more. That just is how the game works. Because of that it would be idiotic to calculate time. In theory the line is very simpel -> are the materials irrelevant because there is new stuff => noone cares about any reduction.

 

That is not quite right - they offer a service and i use them. That has nothing to do with a reward of any kind. I mean they make money with players because they buy Premium, Costumes, Material, Services, Gold, ... and even a Player that will pay nothing is worth sth because it will attrackt others that have and pay money. ^^

 

 

 

[JatoJato]

18 hours ago, DomiSotto said:

the rules relaxation on gearing benefits your alt greatly already, and you still have a geared main. Your main being in legendary means it will remain ahead of the pack for a few months anyway, while you can play your Alts and gear them up at reduced prices. You benefit from this update just like we all do, with an additional benefit of your main being able to farm for your Alts. Asking for additional concession when you already have plenty advantages and an access to every bit of content in the game to get as much stuff as you possibly can want and need is unlikely to get you a sympathy vote.

As i said - i do not care if I am ahead of someone or not - i just care about if i can play the game the way i like, so you do not have to bring this up every time in the hope that you can expose me as "one of the bad elite that only crys because he fears the mass catches up".

 

That is the point - i do not because the system itself changed. 

 

Where is the difference if you take your main and farm for your alts to if you take your main to farm for itself? I see none - besides you have to spend money to send yourself items (and i think you have to had invested real money as well - at least once).

 

I do not ask for anything others do not get ;-).

 

As i pointed out earlier - tell me who can not access every bit of the game? To my knowledge there are not really any limitations how much ap you must have to go into a dungeon. I mean everybody can buy a weapon for 40s and equip it... Also i think the boundaries are so low (this is not a complaint btw - only a remark) that any player that plays the game on a regular basis is able to enter any dungeon he likes (and believe it or not - i think this is good).

 

I am not here to search for friends or win a sympathy vote. I am here because I represent my own interests. However I think nobody that does a realsitic evaluation of my point would find me unsympathic - i mean because of what - because i hope to get what everyone gets? I think there is only one reason why anyone would deny this...

[Prototypemind]

As you said, you represent your own interests, not the best interests of the entire player base.

[JatoJato]

There are at least some ppl that feel the same way than me - so i think i serve their interest as well. Also as I explained earlier - there is no disadvantage for others (so they should be unaffacted and therefor indiferent or for them it should be good that more players are happy) - so you can say in a way I do represent the best interest of the entire playerbase.

 

And btw this is nit-picking because every human beeing represent its own interest. 

[Shelly]

I'd be nice if they gave everyone who is already geared like 10 untradable silverfrost trans stones just as a thank you for grinding through this hell or p2wing/supporting this game through this hell. It'd be a nice PR move for us staying players. And hopefully the new system might attract newer players. Though I don't think this change will affect how shit the community is so I'm pretty meh about it. I feel like easier upgrades might produce more shit players. My definition of shit players are people who don't want to learn mechanics even though people are happy to teach you. 

[DomiSotto]

5 hours ago, Shelly said:

I'd be nice if they gave everyone who is already geared like 10 untradable silverfrost trans stones just as a thank you for grinding through this hell or p2wing/supporting this game through this hell. It'd be a nice PR move for us staying players. And hopefully the new system might attract newer players. Though I don't think this change will affect how shit the community is so I'm pretty meh about it. I feel like easier upgrades might produce more shit players. My definition of shit players are people who don't want to learn mechanics even though people are happy to teach you. 

In my 5 months of playing this game only one person in a dungeon run actually taught me. S/he was kind enough to tell me to stay within the red circle on pyre lord so I don't get pulled.

 

in my 5 months only once I saw (and joined) a room that advertised a learning run for nexus with a decent AP requirement of 500. I don't think I will ever see another one.

 

I have never ever seen a single guild advertise as a casual, learning guild. 

 

I have never ever seen a guild with the raid leads, scheduled runs by a sign-up on the guild page and activity calendars.

 

i've seen people willing to pick up slack or carry, but to teach.... No, not really.

 

bns is a sink or swim game.