Completely RNG Needs to Leave

[Savara]

RNG is a staple of all MMOs.  I get that.

 

But there's a certain point it reaches ridiculousness.

 

There needs to be SOME kind of fail safe to go along with this.  There are twelve classes.  Twelve equal chances, yes? No.

 

I've been constantly running a dungeon to get something necessary for me to even play the f***ing game and continue on with it. And guess what? RNG is not RNG.

 

So far, I've seen EVERYTHING BUT. The weapon drop.  Other assassins have been in my groups having run as much as or more than me trying to find this dagger. I've been at this over EIGHT HOURS.  I've had so much RNG, in fact, that I've gotten everything, BUT. My dagger.  For over nineteen keys! And keep in mind, this is with two shots per attempt at it. Boss loot and chest loot.

 

So, 38 attempts in total for this.  40 as I've now done upon updating.  

 

Zilch. Nada. Nope. Do not pass go.  If you're looking to keep people in your game, you're doing it wrong. Very wrong.  World of Warcraft at least has some kind of RNG protection that they had to institute BECAUSE players were getting so pissed off over it.  Over here, your solution is to charge MONEY over it when the forums and even reddit are rife with complaints that the assassin dagger just will not drop?  I will do the math for you.  

 

There is a 1 in 12 chance it will drop. Per drop.  Supposedly.  That is an 8% chance of dropping. With a 92% chance of not dropping.  If all things are well and right with the world.  I'VE HAD OVER FORTY ATTEMPTS. At this point, I'm reaching the number for a f***ing accurate scientific study with enough variables to find the actual f***ing drop chance.  

 

That means in 100 attempts, 8 should be within all of those.  Now.

 

8 | 100. Reduce by 2  - 4 / 50.  Reduce by 2 again - 2 / 25.  I am over double the odds of this thing not appearing. I've seen literally every single weapon more than three times each. And this isn't just me!  This isn't RNG, this is hell on anyone even DARING to play an assassin - specifically assassin.  This is what made me quit my other assassin. I thought, "Hey, I'll give it a go again."

I've seen the Stratus armor FOUR TIMES.  A BLIGHT DAGGER IS HARDER TO FIND THAN THE EPIC OUTFIT. Why the f*** is there no protection?  I remember when the game got updated, "Oh, here, we've given you more keys because RNG is a pain sometimes."  I remember that update.  

 

I'm almost out of KEYS this thing is so hard to find. No other assassin I ask has even seen it drop naturally.  NONE. ZILCH. NADA. They've all said they've had to buy their's.  Seriously!  I've made an attempt to talk to other ones that I run into the dungeon with. We've gained over three to four levels from combat alone - and I started off at level 21 or 22. I don't even know anymore, but I know I'm level 24. AND I AM NOT EVEN GETTING QUEST EXPERIENCE.  I am gimped currency-wise because I can't move onto the next area, I am gimped weapon wise because I'll never be able to upgrade my weapon, and I am going to be gimped soul-shield wise.  How did this get through the planning stages?!

 

______

 

Now, with the rant out of the way.

 

How can you make RNG exist and still make a profit?  Simple. RNG protection.

 

There are twelve weapons.  

 

Weapon 1.

Weapon 2.

Weapon 3.

Weapon 4.

Weapon 5.

Weapon 6.

Weapon 7.

Weapon 8.

Weapon 9.

Weapon 10.

Weapon 11.

Weapon 12.

 

I have seen all of these drop except weapon 12, per say.  Here's how RNG protection should work.

 

I open my chest. I find weapon one. Oh well. That's fine.  Protection begins to kick in.

 

The list goes to:

 

Weapon 2.

Weapon 3.

Weapon 4.

Weapon 5.

Weapon 6.

Weapon 7. 

Weapon 8.

Weapon 9.

Weapon 10.

Weapon 11.

Weapon 12.

 

That would be the next available loot from the chest.  And so on and so forth with more being removed until you can actually find the one you need.  It still provides an incentive to buy the brilliant keys and it also gives people a reason not to quit because you've screwed them royally with RNG and have gimped them in all the next areas that might have it to a lesser degree.

 

Further Edit: 8:48 Central.

 

I found it. According to my math? It has less than a 1% chance to drop.  And, guess what? I HAVE HAD ENOUGH CHANCES TO MAKE AN ACCURATE GUESS.  This is disgustingly sad.  I've wasted so many keys, copper, and silver.  Luckily I have a main - anyone else who would have run this wouldn't have been able to keep up with the amount of repairs they'd have to do. Or have any copper to bid with.

[Ilka]

1 Assasin

2 Summoner

3 Destroyer

4 Blade Master

5 Kung Fu Master

7 Warlock

8 Blade Dancer

9 Soul Master

10 Force Master

 

10 Classes

 

Do not cry dude, we all have the same "problem" but is part of the game, sometimes lucky is with you, sometimes no.

[Savara]

9 minutes ago, Ilka said:

1 Assasin

2 Summoner

3 Destroyer

4 Blade Master

5 Kung Fu Master

7 Warlock

8 Blade Dancer

9 Soul Master

10 Force Master

 

10 Classes

 

Do not cry dude, we all have the same "problem" but is part of the game, sometimes lucky is with you, sometimes no.

The major issue is, locking you down for so long in one place eats your resources. If you don't have pre-established silver or a main? There goes your copper on repairs. Don't forget bidding.  If you can be locked for over 8 hours in what should only take 2-3 tops? Even if RNG was completely perfect on the math table? Something's fundamentally wrong with your system.

[Raskreiia]

I really kinda have to agree there. 

While I, to some point, like the RNG, it can get ridiculous really fast. 

I tried to level a BM alt and I wasted literally 8g on Deva Essences because after 2 hours of farming and 70 keys later, I didn't get the sword. 

What makes it even worse is the fact that you need it for progression; it's not just some optional gear item that you kinda want to have, no, you NEED it. 

Now I know that you get a sparkling key at the survey, but do I really want to run Tomb of Exiles 40 times if my luck sucks? 

In my opinion, there needs to be system kinda like TERAs enchantment system. Where you get bonus percent the more often you fail. 

For example, you failed around 5 times now to get your weapon, you get around 5% extra chance to get it the next time you open another chest.

While that is still not perfect, it would be a LOT better than what we have now. 

[Lunakitty]

There are 9 classes in the game. And just saying you have had bad luck since the runs I have done in the dungeon I have seen way more often a dagger dropping than for example gauntlet or razor. Each weapon I needed I got within 1-40 tries/runs. You don't have to get it instantly, continue leveling and return once in a while via cross-server for example. On days when that dungeon is on Daily Challenge you can spam it fast as much as you want even without using any attack on mobs. Just keep up with the rushy elitists.

[StrykersGaming]

I believe there are 2 reasons developers rely heavily on RNG in their games:

 

1.) To compensate for player's skill and ability to use their chosen class beyond the scope of what developers envisioned.

2.) To force players to use real $ to obtain what they want or force them to into an endless loop of running the same thing over and over again until they either get what they need or the player throws their hands up and walk away. The later is a calculated risk all MMOs take when employing the heavy use of RNG.

 

RNG makes up for the developers inability to accommodate how good players will get at playing their game. The other manner in which the compensate for player skills is their never ending cycle of nerf or buff classes that exhibit greater outcomes than intended because players learn how to use those classes in a manner the developers did not foresee. SWTOR is the class example of this. Those developers are the absolute worst when it comes to their game.

[Savara]

24 minutes ago, DamnedYankee said:

I believe there are 2 reasons developers rely heavily on RNG in their games:

 

1.) To compensate for player's skill and ability to use their chosen class beyond the scope of what developers envisioned.

2.) To force players to use real $ to obtain what they want or force them to into an endless loop of running the same thing over and over again until they either get what they need or the player throws their hands up and walk away. The later is a calculated risk all MMOs take when employing the heavy use of RNG.

 

RNG makes up for the developers inability to accommodate how good players will get at playing their game. The other manner in which the compensate for player skills is their never ending cycle of nerf or buff classes that exhibit greater outcomes than intended because players learn how to use those classes in a manner the developers did not foresee. SWTOR is the class example of this. Those developers are the absolute worst when it comes to their game.

That's the problem - number 2.

 

You don't set it at the very first hurdle of the game.  That's how you lose players. You set it much later after players have heavily invested and don't want to walk away as easily.

[SasakiKojiro]

Yep pretty much. I joined back from a 4 month hiatus, used 30+ keys to try and get a stalker weapon from the first wheel. Didn't even get the weapon I needed. I quit again after that remembering why I quit in the first place lmao. 

[Chicken]

On low level weapons, if they're tradeable, just sell the weapons that isn't your class and use the money to buy the one that's for you.

For the one's untradeable like Gold Deva at your level, you can use Brilliant Cinderland Key from your survey.

 

You can actually get to profane level 43 weapon if you use your brilliant keys and sell other class blue tradeable weapon.

 

[Rog]

Easiest fix for this would be dynamic RNG, by that I mean: Let's say you run same dungeon for 15 times and don't get your class weapon then on 16th run you are guaranteed to get your required weapon.

 

And let's be real here, running same dungeon 40+ times is complete and utter bullshit no matter how unlucky you are. This kind of insane RNG is driving newer players crazy, especially then almost no one does low instances (Now being exception because of SF, but not for long).

 

And of course I know that NCsoft almost can't do jack's shit about it, they would need to make KR to make this change, but anyone who thinks that this RNG is fair needs to get his head out of his ass...

[Els]

Or do like Poh, she drops the weapon, and she also drops siren emblems which can be used to get the weapon.

[Atheyana]

To those who want RNG protection there are blue keys to open the chests. They can be acquired with ingame gold or NCoins. There are two different versions. Yes, Buying these keys from the marketplace may be expensive but the option is there.

 

If you can't afford or don't wish to get one of the blue keys then farm up to 20-30 chests then open all at once via RNG method. If you open the chests all at one time your chances increase compared to if you open after each run.

 

Both options work and you just have to play smart about this. Weapons that drop in instances can be farmed so you don't have to worry about the RNG box route on them.

[DannyMayCry]

22 minutes ago, Atheyana said:

To those who want RNG protection there are blue keys to open the chests. They can be acquired with ingame gold or NCoins. There are two different versions. Yes, Buying these keys from the marketplace may be expensive but the option is there.

 

If you can't afford or don't wish to get one of the blue keys then farm up to 20-30 chests then open all at once via RNG method. If you open the chests all at one time your chances increase compared to if you open after each run.

 

Both options work and you just have to play smart about this. Weapons that drop in instances can be farmed so you don't have to worry about the RNG box route on them.

Fantastic idea. Watch new, learning players quit the game after not giving up for a while trying to get what they need. You can't even get 1 gold doing all your storyline quests before Moonwater Plains.

[Savara]

1 hour ago, DannyMayCry said:

Fantastic idea. Watch new, learning players quit the game after not giving up for a while trying to get what they need. You can't even get 1 gold doing all your storyline quests before Moonwater Plains.

Exactly. I gained two or more actual levels just from combat exp I ran that thing so much. And my character's in her twenties.

[Velrofica]

 

Finally i found my Sealed Fiend Bracers after soooooo many rounds like 20+, woots. may RNG be with you <3

[Lunakitty]

Every mmo player knows the hardships of farming their items. There are far worse mmo grinds than running let's say 50ish times one dungeon to get your weapon. I remember when I played another mmo where I ended up buying the rarest item for 50 000 g and the gold amount was 100 g per hour of farm. Not to mention the runs to try to get the item that came closer to 500-1000 runs and each of them taking 30 minutes. Here people complain if they don't get their item in 10 minutes. The new generation of players are so impatient and easy to get mad over not getting what they want and when they want. And no i don't want rng out.

[Savara]

2 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

Every mmo player knows the hardships of farming their items. There are far worse mmo grinds than running let's say 50ish times one dungeon to get your weapon. I remember when I played another mmo where I ended up buying the rarest item for 50 000 g and the gold amount was 100 g per hour of farm. Not to mention the runs to try to get the item that came closer to 500-1000 runs and each of them taking 30 minutes. Here people complain if they don't get their item in 10 minutes. The new generation of players are so impatient and easy to get mad over not getting what they want and when they want. And no i don't want rng out.

You didn't read my statement.

This is concerning your first actual major upgrade item in the game.  Not something end-game.

[Lunakitty]

1 minute ago, Savara said:

You didn't read my statement.

This is concerning your first actual major upgrade item in the game.  Not something end-game.

I wasn't talking about this game's end game part either. I know exactly what you mean with that as I also found myself in situation where my keys ended before I got my weapon at level 6.

[Savara]

2 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

I wasn't talking about this game's end game part either. I know exactly what you mean with that as I also found myself in situation where my keys ended before I got my weapon at level 6.

Do you not see how that's bad for player retention?  You save SUPER RNG for much higher levels and gradually introduce it. You don't beat them with a stick over it and lock them into uselessness and force them to reroll.

[Lunakitty]

4 minutes ago, Savara said:

Do you not see how that's bad for player retention?  You save SUPER RNG for much higher levels and gradually introduce it. You don't beat them with a stick over it and lock them into uselessness and force them to reroll.

I don't know your mentality but wasn't issue for me as I don't live to play the game. I can simply make new char to play with if the other char fails or switch to other char of mine that was already higher in level or just simply take day break until I get more keys. There is always a way if there is will to be persistent.

[Atheyana]

For those that took exception to my earlier post. It wasn't meant to be an attack on those that felt the system is flawed. However, MMORPGs are meant to take time to acquire things and it varies by player. My point is that this game has been out since 2012 in KR. It started moving to CN, TW, and JP before coming to NA/EU. This means the chances of the way drops work won't be changed.

 

My suggestion was about ways that currently exist to help improve the odds of getting said item. If people took offense to the comment then that is their perception. Also, Your weapon isn't even close to being the most important gear piece. The most important gear piece is your Ring. The Ring gives best value for cost.

 

Early levels focus on  Ring --> Earring --> Necklace --> Weapon in this order. 

Once you get your Bracelet and Belt they will be added in the mix towards the middle. The Soul item should be one of the last pieces to focus on as it is more of a luxury item. Gems aren't extremely important until later on even though they can be useful earlier on.

 

Now as for Soul Shields you want to go Jiangshi wheel in Viridian map, switch to the Jadestone Village Soul Shields from vendor(need Viridian Valor Stones) or wait until you can get either Deva / Scorpion in the Cinderlands. After this you want the Cinderlands level 36 Soul Stones from vendor (need Cinderlands Valor Stones). Keep on the blue Soul Shields until you reach level 45 or 50 then start switching.

 

Also, Anyone on Poharan or Jiwan server just message my inbox and I will literally help farm your weapon then mail it to you as it isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

[Savara]

15 minutes ago, Atheyana said:

For those that took exception to my earlier post. It wasn't meant to be an attack on those that felt the system is flawed. However, MMORPGs are meant to take time to acquire things and it varies by player. My point is that this game has been out since 2012 in KR. It started moving to CN, TW, and JP before coming to NA/EU. This means the chances of the way drops work won't be changed.

 

My suggestion was about ways that currently exist to help improve the odds of getting said item. If people took offense to the comment then that is their perception. Also, Your weapon isn't even close to being the most important gear piece. The most important gear piece is your Ring. The Ring gives best value for cost.

 

Early levels focus on  Ring --> Earring --> Necklace --> Weapon in this order. 

 

Now as for Soul Shields you want to go Jiangshi wheel in Viridian map, switch to the Jadestone Village Soul Shields from vendor(need Viridian Valor Stones) or wait until you can get either Deva / Scorpion in the Cinderlands. After this you want the Cinderlands level 36 Soul Stones from vendor (need Cinderlands Valor Stones). Keep on the blue Soul Shields until you reach level 45 or 50 then start switching.

 

Also, Anyone on Poharan or Jiwan server just message my inbox and I will literally help farm your weapon then mail it to you as it isn't as bad as people make it out to be.

I'll buy the stalker weapon for people who can't find it on the stalker wheel in a lot of cases.  I had already fully upgraded my accessories. My weapon was the only thing I needed. I saw Stratus Armor drop 4 times. I won it for 17s, too.  I have seen the full blight soul shield drop and, except for six, I'm wearing it. Full purple.  That should be a clue to how crazy things are to get the blight dagger.

[Els]

12 minutes ago, Savara said:

I'll buy the stalker weapon for people who can't find it on the stalker wheel in a lot of cases.  I had already fully upgraded my accessories. My weapon was the only thing I needed. I saw Stratus Armor drop 4 times. I won it for 17s, too.  I have seen the full blight soul shield drop and, except for six, I'm wearing it. Full purple.  That should be a clue to how crazy things are to get the blight dagger.

Don't they give you a Viridian Key from the surveys ?

[Lunakitty]

At the beginning yes you got Viridian one but they changed it.

[rapielle]

If I remember correctly you'll get both a Cinderlands Brilliant key and a Moonwater Brilliant key, but not a Viridian one.