Completely RNG Needs to Leave

[MegaMouseGW]

OP I feel your pain. It took me almost a week to get what I needed from Mushins tower to upgrade my necklace. I kept getting rings and bracelets but no necklaces. I had almost resigned myself to buy the necklace from the vendor once I got the required items for it (200 Warriors tokens is not easy to collect). But just as I got just what I needed the stupid necklace dropped. Talk about either bad luck or no luck at all.

[Savara]

23 minutes ago, Els said:

Don't they give you a Viridian Key from the surveys ?

What Luna said.  They used to give you one, but now they don't.

[Eckogen]

The RNG does suck. I totally agree with that.

 

But your mathematical approach is not right. If the drop rate is 1 in 12. The probability of the correct class weapon dropping still remains 1 in 12 regardless of how many boxes you opened. You had said in 100 attempts, you should have got 8. That's not how it works. You increase your chances of getting it as you increase the number of attempts yes; but the probability of receiving it still remains at the same percentage.

[Mastrof]

Well, beside of what everyone sayd, theres also keys for opening chests that gives you the weapon for your class.

Theres a quest in the story quest that gives you 1 moonwater key and if you need more you can buy on market. But for some one that starts from 0 thats paying with real cash since they pretty expensive (idk if they are also in f10 market).

 

 

 

[Savara]

7 minutes ago, Mastrof said:

Well, beside of what everyone sayd, theres also keys for opening chests that gives you the weapon for your class.

Theres a quest in the story quest that gives you 1 moonwater key and if you need more you can buy on market. But for some one that starts from 0 thats paying with real cash since they pretty expensive (idk if they are also in f10 market).

 

 

 

There are keys that do that. And the surveys give you -one- for each zone that's appropriate to upgrading your weapon. That's fine and that's perfect.

 

Except they removed the first one for the first area.  Which is the worst area to actually do that - the first areas are the initial impressions of your game.  They decide whether or not players will keep going.  Remember when World of Warcraft released their statistics of most people quitting before 20 and their response was to improve the 1-20 leveling experience, give better looking outfits, etc? It actually worked for a brief moment (until WoD happened).

 

Dooming someone to 44 or more runs of a place without a sure shot of getting the item you need to continue the game is a quick way to lose potential customers.  By the time they're in Blackram Narrows they are 17-20.  They can progress no further. They are at the mercy of RNG. And after that area, on the survey, they get a brilliant cinderlands key and know the key will get them the weapon they had to RNG for 44 times.  That's a bit of a slap in the face, especially for older players (like me) who were here when we were given a Viridian Key at the start of the game - people were able to progress and leveling was kept at a steady pace because we weren't gated behind RNG for class-essential items.  And, now, at the Blight Weapons, many people are having terrible times - removal of that key just stonewalls a lot of people.

[Lunakitty]

7 minutes ago, Mastrof said:

Well, beside of what everyone sayd, theres also keys for opening chests that gives you the weapon for your class.

Theres a quest in the story quest that gives you 1 moonwater key and if you need more you can buy on market. But for some one that starts from 0 thats paying with real cash since they pretty expensive (idk if they are also in f10 market).

Viridian one is 80 NCoins/Hongmoon Coins. I would say only Viridian or Cinderlands is worthy to buy from there if the player can but the later keys get so expensive that I would rather suggest just trying and trying with normal keys that in time will come in high amounts as on my main I it at 300-500 keys.

[Savara]

2 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

Viridian one is 80 NCoins/Hongmoon Coins. I would say only Viridian or Cinderlands is worthy to buy from there if the player can but the later keys get so expensive that I would rather suggest just trying and trying with normal keys that in time will come in high amounts as on my main I it at 300-500 keys.

Keep in mind, telling someone they can run something 40+ times or pay you five dollars when they have nothing invested in the game at that point sets a really bad image for anyone starting here. It presents the idea you need money to progress and people with money will be leaps and bounds ahead of you.

 

I didn't quit because I have two 45s leveled within days of the game starting - they had their Viridian Keys, got past the Blight weapons and it was smooth sailing.  I only recently came back to see the Viridian Key was removed.

[Mastrof]

1 minute ago, Lunakitty said:

Viridian one is 80 NCoins/Hongmoon Coins. I would say only Viridian or Cinderlands is worthy to buy from there if the player can but the later keys get so expensive that I would rather suggest just trying and trying with normal keys that in time will come in high amounts as on my main I it at 300-500 keys.

Problem is also that today some1 that starts wants to go into silverfrost within 1 week, many of us have spent months into moonwater farming dungeons, blackram and bloodshade harboor quests for geting gold. When silverfrost went out i had 10 venture tokens in my vault, i didnt know what they were for lol, with that amount i could buy keys for all the upgrades needed.

And trying to farm moonwater is also a problem since not many people in there, at least in low populated servers, idk how would it be in Mushin and other high populated servers (maybe with all the SF fever things are easy now).

 

I made a FM last week, and i did helped a lot of people on my way that were starting the game, i run a lot with a BM that have been playing 5 days, he eventually got stuck into quest 14 of silverfrost and he was telling me i cant continue with this, such a bad class i cant pass throu this quest, i will do a ranged one now. I told him not be stupid, you been playing so little and you want to finish something that isnt for your lvl yet. He didnt listen and started other class anyways.

 

[Turtloise]

Don't wanna be that person, but, probabilities don't work that way.

That is way too small of a sample size to get any kind of accurate confidence interval..

it's likely you would get around 80 daggers in 1000 tries, but not so much for a small number of attempts

[Savara]

Just now, Mastrof said:

Problem is also that today some1 that starts wants to go into silverfrost within 1 week, many of us have spent months into moonwater farming dungeons, blackram and bloodshade harboor quests for geting gold. When silverfrost went out i had 10 venture tokens in my vault, i didnt know what they were for lol, with that amount i could buy keys for all the upgrades needed.

And trying to farm moonwater is also a problem since not many people in there, at least in low populated servers, idk how would it be in Mushin and other high populated servers (maybe with all the SF fever things are easy now).

 

I made a FM last week, and i did helped a lot of people on my way that were starting the game, i run a lot with a BM that have been playing 5 days, he eventually got stuck into quest 14 of silverfrost and he was telling me i cant continue with this, such a bad class i cant pass throu this quest, i will do a ranged one now. I told him not be stupid, you been playing so little and you want to finish something that isnt for your lvl yet. He didnt listen and started other class anyways.

 

The difference is this. I have two 45s.  This was back when the game was released. I got one of them to 45 in 3-4 days of play.  Everything was fine.  It's not the fact I'm looking to speed my way through, it's the fact that RNG can be an unnecessary hurdle. After 44 loot chances and getting it on the 44th - I've run the dungeon too much. I've out leveled it. I'm getting nothing from it. And it's a pointless RNG wall.  At that point there needs to be some kind of protection. All it's doing is hurting any chance to progress and see the game for newer players.  I've run the dungeon enough to know techniques to wipe out groups of monsters by myself as a squishy assassin.  When it reaches the point where the dungeon is no longer a threat, you do not even have to think to avoid things, and you're dreading pressing the LFP button again - an issue has been had.

[Lunakitty]

10 minutes ago, Savara said:

Keep in mind, telling someone they can run something 40+ times or pay you five dollars when they have nothing invested in the game at that point sets a really bad image for anyone starting here. It presents the idea you need money to progress and people with money will be leaps and bounds ahead of you.

 

I didn't quit because I have two 45s leveled within days of the game starting - they had their Viridian Keys, got past the Blight weapons and it was smooth sailing.  I only recently came back to see the Viridian Key was removed.

That's why I said if they can not that everyone should do that. People want to rush so only those two keys could be worthy but still I never would buy those unless I want to really rush it as I now have 5 lvl 50 varying from HM1 to HM9 and bunch of lower levels and it gets tiring to keep doing on each char same thing over and over. I started the game with my bf so I had it always easier as we help each other alot. Solo it is really much harder and time taking.

[Savara]

1 minute ago, Lunakitty said:

hat's why I said if they can not that everyone should do that. People want to rush so only those two keys could be worthy but still I never would buy those unless I want to really rush it as I now have 5 lvl 50 varying from HM1 to HM9 and bunch of lower levels and it gets tiring to keep doing on each char same thing over and over. I started the game with my bf so I had it always easier as we help each other alot. Solo it is really much harder and time taking.

The difference is, they took a tool away from people and stonewalled them now.  I mean, it'd be a different story if the surveys never give or gave keys.  

 

I'm going to try and explain this with a World of Warcraft analogy.

 

In World of Warcraft, you need item levels to run certain dungeons, get into dungeon finder, etc.

 

RNG happens, but the loot pool is much larger and you can replace multiple pieces and there's actual protection against RNG so you don't get gold all the time.  And the last boss is guaranteed to drop something for you. One item. Might be useless. But it drops.

 

In World of Warcraft, the rarest drops are things like mounts, cosmetics, toys, and pets.  Things that aren't necessary to continue playing their game.  They don't help you progress, they're just there to look pretty, nice, and to show off.

 

__

 

In Blade and Soul - you only have your weapon, accessories, and soul shield.  

 

In the case of your accessories, you can buy the sealed things off the auction house - no real issue. And then you unseal them.  Easy, that works.

 

Then it goes to your weapon at the first hurdle of the game to upgrade.  This is necessary to progress. This is absolutely necessary to keep up with others, this is absolutely necessary. No way around it unless you're a tank of some kind.  You cannot move onto the next area without being severely handicapped. You cannot keep going with the story. You cannot follow the narrative. You do not pass "Go," at the start of the game.  Eventually you get it from RNG.  Only to see those Brilliant Keys (that you never bought) are now rewards for the surveys.  RNG is now pointless and they wasted forty plus attempts at a run to give you your guaranteed weapon upgrade on a dungeon you will never have to see again after one run.  Unless you want the cosmetics.  It's insulting.  You only got and get -one- brilliant key from the surveys.  Back in the day, you got a Viridian Key, too.  All that was accomplished by removing that is leaving players to RNG for the first part of the game (which is supposed to get them hooked and keep them).  That's the exact opposite of what someone should do.  If anything, the Brilliant Keys should have started disappearing -later-, rather than on the first hurdle. 

[Zakarii]

You do get brilliant keys to help your progressions, but it's like the guy up there said, do i really want to use my key and run over tombs 40 times?
I do think this rng protection is a good idea, would prevent us from wasting time.
We gotta look for the ppl that do and don't have time to play.

A person who can spend 5 hours straight in a game, can completly farm his weap till he gets it.

But what about the ppl who have work?

Will they get stuck in that part of the game for what? 1 week? 2~3 weeks?
 

But even so, this RNG make things really, REALLY frustrating, since it is NOT hard, it's annoying!

 

In mmos there's this thin line between making things annoying or hard for the player.

 

A good thing to strengthen my argument, it's the Dreadtide Arena. Everyone knows it's "hard" to farm the [Infinity Challenge] outfit. Then one guy asked me why is it hard since he killed the mobs pretty easly on the same level from the dungeon.

 

It is NOT HARD, it IS ANNOYING, since you have to wait the npc to talk the whole thing. This is a completly different matter so I wont move foward with it.

 

My point is, RNG surpassed the point of making things harder, and now's just making things annoying.

The RNG protection is a good idea in my opinion.

[Savara]

Just now, Lunakitty said:

This view is so flawed. You can finish everything with just Moonwater soul shield, Infernal accessories and True Infernal - True Profane until the Demon Lord killing quest in Zaiwei ruins if you are ranged. I did this on my alt and was "np np gg wp easy piecey". Main issue here is that people are not familiar with their characters and won't even bother reading their skill but blindly take skills and do poorly in pve areas.

 

If you mean low level areas, I skipped for a long time on my first ever char getting weapons because I had no idea where to get them as I didn't realize the weapons told the exact location where it can be obtained. I ended up going high enough level and then returning to a place which I then could do solo. Reason why I had to return was that soloing mobs started taking ages and was way harder than what it would've been with upgraded weapon but still doable. As for Blackram Narrows it can be soloed at lvl 20-22 and I am not kidding. People just are too new to the class and don't know the "mechanics" of the bosses there which causes them to fail in solo. It is simple to just run it many times through cross-server.

 

This is blade and soul where you upgrade your items. You compared it to a game with completely different mechanics but still you said people would get something for their class even if it was useless. How is that any different from getting another class' blue weapon that you can simply sell and gain a bit of profit? Both are useless to your character anyway.

 

I understand it's frustrating but I am still against the idea of RNG protection as it wouldn't really be RNG anymore and it would cause so many things to ruin the game even more. Some people get profit for selling off those things and with RNG protection why would anyone bother buying the weapons anymore since they will surely get it anyway without paying a penny for it.

Have you seen World of Warcraft's loot protection system? It's still random. And it resets after you get an item.

 

And I know Blackram can be soloed. I'm capable of it.

 

The fact is, it's not RNG after the first area. So why would you RNG lock someone in the first area?

[Lunakitty]

7 minutes ago, Savara said:

Then it goes to your weapon at the first hurdle of the game to upgrade.  This is necessary to progress. This is absolutely necessary to keep up with others, this is absolutely necessary. No way around it unless you're a tank of some kind.  You cannot move onto the next area without being severely handicapped. You cannot keep going with the story. You cannot follow the narrative. You do not pass "Go," at the start of the game.  Eventually you get it from RNG.  Only to see those Brilliant Keys (that you never bought) are now rewards for the surveys.  RNG is now pointless and they wasted forty plus attempts at a run to give you your guaranteed weapon upgrade on a dungeon you will never have to see again after one run.  Unless you want the cosmetics.  It's insulting.  You only got and get -one- brilliant key from the surveys.  Back in the day, you got a Viridian Key, too.  All that was accomplished by removing that is leaving players to RNG for the first part of the game (which is supposed to get them hooked and keep them).  That's the exact opposite of what someone should do.  If anything, the Brilliant Keys should have started disappearing -later-, rather than on the first hurdle. 

This view is so flawed. You can finish everything with just Moonwater soul shield, Infernal accessories and True Infernal - True Profane until the Demon Lord killing quest in Zaiwei ruins if you are ranged. I did this on my alt and was "np np gg wp easy piecey". Main issue here is that people are not familiar with their characters and won't even bother reading their skill but blindly take skills and do poorly in pve areas.

 

If you mean low level areas, I skipped for a long time on my first ever char getting weapons because I had no idea where to get them as I didn't realize the weapons told the exact location where it can be obtained. I ended up going high enough level and then returning to a place which I then could do solo. Reason why I had to return was that soloing mobs started taking ages and was way harder than what it would've been with upgraded weapon but still doable. As for Blackram Narrows it can be soloed at lvl 20-22 and I am not kidding. People just are too new to the class and don't know the "mechanics" of the bosses there which causes them to fail in solo. It is simple to just run it many times through cross-server.

 

This is blade and soul where you upgrade your items. You compared it to a game with completely different mechanics but still you said people would get something for their class even if it was useless. How is that any different from getting another class' blue weapon that you can simply sell and gain a bit of profit? Both are useless to your character anyway.

 

I understand it's frustrating but I am still against the idea of RNG protection as it wouldn't really be RNG anymore and it would cause so many things to ruin the game even more. Some people get profit for selling off those things and with RNG protection why would anyone bother buying the weapons anymore since they will surely get it anyway without paying a penny for it.

[Zakarii]

1 minute ago, Lunakitty said:

This view is so flawed. You can finish everything with just Moonwater soul shield, Infernal accessories and True Infernal - True Profane until the Demon Lord killing quest in Zaiwei ruins if you are ranged. I did this on my alt and was "np np gg wp easy piecey". Main issue here is that people are not familiar with their characters and won't even bother reading their skill but blindly take skills and do poorly in pve areas.

 

If you mean low level areas, I skipped for a long time on my first ever char getting weapons because I had no idea where to get them as I didn't realize the weapons told the exact location where it can be obtained. I ended up going high enough level and then returning to a place which I then could do solo. Reason why I had to return was that soloing mobs started taking ages and was way harder than what it would've been with upgraded weapon but still doable. As for Blackram Narrows it can be soloed at lvl 20-22 and I am not kidding. People just are too new to the class and don't know the "mechanics" of the bosses there which causes them to fail in solo. It is simple to just run it many times through cross-server.

 

This is blade and soul where you upgrade your items. You compared it to a game with completely different mechanics but still you said people would get something for their class even if it was useless. How is that any different from getting another class' blue weapon that you can simply sell and gain a bit of profit? Both are useless to your character anyway.

 

I understand it's frustrating but I am still against the idea of RNG protection as it wouldn't really be RNG anymore and it would cause so many things to ruin the game even more. Some people get profit for selling off those things and with RNG protection why would anyone bother buying the weapons anymore since they will surely get it anyway without paying a penny for it.

I can't actualy arguee with the fact that would ruin the profit from some players, because i am one of them, i do get profit from weapons time to time.

But we're talkin also about he untradeable ones, such as Hujikar, Infernal, Blight, and so on.

 

I don't mind sacrificing my profits from weapons (since it is NOT my main resource of money, it's like 1% of 100%) to make things relatively GOOD for casual players, and hardcore players as well.

[Savara]

2 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

This view is so flawed. You can finish everything with just Moonwater soul shield, Infernal accessories and True Infernal - True Profane until the Demon Lord killing quest in Zaiwei ruins if you are ranged. I did this on my alt and was "np np gg wp easy piecey". Main issue here is that people are not familiar with their characters and won't even bother reading their skill but blindly take skills and do poorly in pve areas.

 

If you mean low level areas, I skipped for a long time on my first ever char getting weapons because I had no idea where to get them as I didn't realize the weapons told the exact location where it can be obtained. I ended up going high enough level and then returning to a place which I then could do solo. Reason why I had to return was that soloing mobs started taking ages and was way harder than what it would've been with upgraded weapon but still doable. As for Blackram Narrows it can be soloed at lvl 20-22 and I am not kidding. People just are too new to the class and don't know the "mechanics" of the bosses there which causes them to fail in solo. It is simple to just run it many times through cross-server.

 

This is blade and soul where you upgrade your items. You compared it to a game with completely different mechanics but still you said people would get something for their class even if it was useless. How is that any different from getting another class' blue weapon that you can simply sell and gain a bit of profit? Both are useless to your character anyway.

 

I understand it's frustrating but I am still against the idea of RNG protection as it wouldn't really be RNG anymore and it would cause so many things to ruin the game even more. Some people get profit for selling off those things and with RNG protection why would anyone bother buying the weapons anymore since they will surely get it anyway without paying a penny for it.

By that logic, they should remove the cinderlands, moonwater, etc. keys they give us. :V

 

We don't have to pay a cent for our upgrades there.

[Lunakitty]

6 minutes ago, Savara said:

Have you seen World of Warcraft's loot protection system? It's still random. And it resets after you get an item.

 

And I know Blackram can be soloed. I'm capable of it.

 

The fact is, it's not RNG after the first area. So why would you RNG lock someone in the first area?

The games is in every aspect RNG. Please tell me that you never have to repeat anything else to get your items for upgrading after blackram narrows. They give us only one key and dear lord it was a saving grace when I leveled my first char. Warrior weapon was a pain in the arse as I was not skilled enough to kill Junghado so getting one weapon box from a random lower floor boss and having that free key was pretty much crucial for my upgrades. I am grateful of having that key. They are there to help a bit at some stages but the game is not going to give you all the keys to get your items on first round. I do agree that I didn't like when they change the key into Cinderlands one and I preferred the Viridian one but this. With the logic apparently we should never get anything for free at all. If we complain about free stuff why do we accept them? Wouldn't it be better to just discard the free items we get and continue without any boost at all.

[Savara]

3 minutes ago, Lunakitty said:

The games is in every aspect RNG. Please tell me that you never have to repeat anything else to get your items for upgrading after blackram narrows. They give us only one key and dear lord it was a saving grace when I leveled my first char. Warrior weapon was a pain in the arse as I was not skilled enough to kill Junghado so getting one weapon box from a random lower floor boss and having that free key was pretty much crucial for my upgrades. I am grateful of having that key. They are there to help a bit at some stages but the game is not going to give you all the keys to get your items on first round. I do agree that I didn't like when they change the key into Cinderlands one and I preferred the Viridian one but this. With the logic apparently we should never get anything for free at all. If we complain about free stuff why do we accept them? Wouldn't it be better to just discard the free items we get and continue without any boost at all.

The issue is, we started with it. And they took it away.

 

They didn't -have- to give those things to us, but to give them and take them away like that and lock people down is a bad idea.