Requirements for moonwater stage upgrades should be lowered in sake of new players!

[Jaite]

17 minutes ago, Shadzar said:

I am stuck on stupid Mushin's Tower and locked into needing 600 more warrior tokens to be able to progress ANY gear. New players will have it easier by not having to do as much next week when Siren/Pirate is no longer avilable but for others still with Siren or Pirate weapons, they are pretty screwed.

 

Also the whole "buy it from the market" is BS. This is BnS not BS,.

 

If this is a fighting game then why is it  mostly about playing the market? you cant buy profane and hujikar on the market. Hujikar doesnt even have essence

 

 

If they wanted to make a solely market based game they should have based it on Lawrence and Horo from Spice and Wolf rather than the nonsense that exists in BnS

 

 

NO! You should be able to obtain materials without having to buy everything formt he market. As it stands the endgame is the only place being worked on and earlier game contnt was left to collect dust. It needs an overhaul for Moonwater down, and Silverfrost will ened an overhaul when the nex area where you get on the flying pirate ship comes out after Jinsoyun story ends.

Yea the market should be prohibited till lvl 50 hm10 legendary?? There is nothing wrong with spending few silver to get over half the upgrade items you need, not all.

 

Personally, you don't need anything passed infernal to get to silver frost content.

 

I wouldn't be able to tell you how you're still stuck grinding warrior tokens. Mushin 1-7 is a joke these days by simply watching and studying a video for mechanics with low AP. 

 

On the bright side, there is a crap ton of lowbie content for new players to enjoy. Exactly what I would want if I was new to a game. 

 

 

 

[DomiSotto]

3 hours ago, Shadzar said:

It is just designed to give you something to work for to get some e-sport backed and paid for. A shame really when the world itself is a great place and so much more could be done with it if the mechanics and meta werent in he way.

Actually, my biggest problem is that the world and the character are just cardboard cutouts in a stage set. There are no dimensions to anything in this game, not your character, not the villains, not the world, not the dungeons, not the PvP, not the Factions. It's all cosmetic, and it's all far too juvenile. Compared to this absence of soul in the game, the gearing is no biggie, particularly if new 24M will have the relevant loot.

 

I don't know. Part of me wants to keep gearing up, part of me wants to pull the plug. Overall, I do not see a compelling reason to play, but the Great Quest for Gear/Gold appeals to my competitive side, of course. I know how to get there. Do I want it though?

 

As for demographics, I think it's hard to make a game that pleases both a young male who's gaming non-stop since he was three and got a game-boy,  wants giganto-boobs and no pants on every characetr, and everything for free, 'cause he's so leet and skips every piece of dialogue like it's gonna bite him, and an old gal who is set on tasteful period costuming, realistic plots, immersion, characters with the stories that are not trite, and having a jolly adventure that she is willing to pay a steady fee for. The young male wants virtual STUFF for FREE, I want thrills and joy.

[DomiSotto]

38 minutes ago, Shadzar said:

You can't have higher levels revisit old places and find appropriate difficulty levels for them in an MMO because the lower levels need those areas. This isnt true in a TTRPG because it isnt too many people at the same time.

SWTOR scaled all areas in the game based on the level of a person who plays it, and the heroic areas on the low level plants give loot relevant to the player level. I believe I have heard that they copied one of the other games, either WoW or GW.  It can be done. Is it a successful strategy? Who knows.

[DomiSotto]

33 minutes ago, SongNhi said:

Dont stay stuck trying to farm gold in moonwater, it's not a good revenue for gold.  Then once you get to lvl 50 you can start doing those blue daily quests and run some pug blue dungeons, they all give very good gold and XP, dont need to rush into purple dungeons.  Should net around 20G per day?  I think just few days is enough gold farming to push you past moonwater.  So it's really not as hard as people make it sound.  Unless you seriously struggle doing story quests without latest and greatest weapon - which you shouldnt because most yellow quests are made very easy to allow people to solo instance or quest.

I have never seen over 12 golds per day doing all the Silverfrost content that could be soloed - the dailies from the Monastery to the Frostscale Basin. By day three of me being Lvl50/HM1, Frostscale Basin was deserted. It also took me upward of 2 hrs to do it, so, again, the gold per time investment ratio is not great. I've never stepped into the level 50 blue dungeons at the time, only when I was more geared, and tbh, I am glad because level 50 blues are not trivial at all.

 

The hardest period for me was on the Oathbreaker Path in like low 400, because the upgrade I needed asked for 11MTS/180 ss AND 34 gold (and the next breakthrough asked for 12MTS/190 ss AND 37 gold), and at the same time the Oathbreaker Accessories (purples) were not cutting it for crit, the soulshileds I could get were BSH and blue stuff from Frostscale, so the character had low everything, AP, hitpoints and crit. That made it 20 ss a day farm and very low gold income, because neither Mistywoods, nor killing 8 sentinels give much gold and take more than an hour together (doing Sentinels is hard in low gear, as you get killed if you aggro more than one, pulled by Horrors and one-shot by any Crimson who happens along for funsies).

 

At the same time you still need to run the purple level 45 dungeons to accumulate Machismos and Poha perfumes for the accessories at a painstakingly slow rate, and each level 45 dungeon takes forever to complete. That's another hour for 2 dungeons (and Naryu takes a lifetime & best to never step in there). Not to mention you need to run Mushin's Tower. Yeah, maybe it's trivial for some, I have given up on Floor 7 after spending over an hour on it once, and using up all my Master Repair tools. As far as I am concerned, Mushin's Tower has 6 floors.

 

Finally, yes, 2 hours to do the solo dailies in Silverfrost for 10 gold.

 

Yep, if you have 3 to 4 hours on hand, you can do it in a few weeks of grinding, to do those 2 Big Oathbreaker weapon breakthroughs and manage to get your accessories to the Awkened Siren.

[Melodia]

1 hour ago, Jaite said:

People are over reacting. Literally going to level 45 takes a small amount of gold (Misty dailies), get to 50 and you get SF dailies or story line income.

 

It takes 1 MTS to break into profane, 2 if you want true profane. Upgrading poses no threat as you gain a generous amount of free elements for weapon and accessories. 

 

How will a new player get xxx upgrade items from bosses? Buy the hard stuff from the market, farm the rest. Sell the other blues you get.

 

How would a new player player afford that MTS?? Sell his soulstone from Misty woods for a couple days. 

 

Let's not forget, finishing the 50 story quest on infernal gears is super easy.

 

It isn't hard, and it barely cost anything to get to SF content. I don't get where people think new people struggle. It's just that people are too used to gold fed power leveling.

Lol.

 

1. Love how you just mention Profane. Are you serious? Profane is nowhere near endgame. No one has a problem getting to Profane. People have a trouble getting past Siren, read next time

 

2. First of all you can't buy half the stuff from market because they're not tradeable. Second of all new players don't have 500 keys to spare to open boxes where there's only a 1% chance to produce the right weapon they need. Also, there's never anyone farming any of the world bosses, thanks to NC removing the ONLY SOURCE OF HELP new players get, the world boss farming bots. Seriously from level 1-45, bots are more helpful than other players, and that's a fact

 

3. Sell soulstones? LOL. Yes I'm sure you don't need any soulstones to upgrade along with MTS right? Did you forget that going from Siren to True Siren "only" requires... um... 110 soulstones?? And each stage after that requires exponentially greater amounts?

 

4. You're not understanding what the struggle even is. It's not GETTING TO silverfrost content, it's SURVIVING in it. No one has trouble finishing the quest line. 99% of the people have trouble with STAYING in it, in other words, actually participating in the endgame level 50 instances without being scolded by the elitist bastards who insults anyone who isn't 500+ AP. In order to get to even 450+ AP you need to spend at least 500g, rough estimate. In other words, in order to even START doing level 50 content, you need to grind for 1-3 months nonstop. That's not something that's even possible for many new players or even logical for most MMO's. Why is it that pre-50, upgrade costs are in the coppers/silvers, then all of a sudden the game decides to literally 100x the upgrade costs?

[SongNhi]

16 minutes ago, DomiSotto said:

I have never seen over 12 golds per day doing all the Silverfrost content that could be soloed - the dailies from the Monastery to the Frostscale Basin. By day three of me being Lvl50/HM1, Frostscale Basin was deserted. It also took me upward of 2 hrs to do it, so, again, the gold per time investment ratio is not great. I've never stepped into the level 50 blue dungeons at the time, only when I was more geared, and tbh, I am glad because level 50 blues are not trivial at all.

 

The hardest period for me was on the Oathbreaker Path in like low 400, because the upgrade I needed asked for 11MTS/180 ss AND 34 gold (and the next breakthrough asked for 12MTS/190 ss AND 37 gold), and at the same time the Oathbreaker Accessories (purples) were not cutting it for crit, the soulshileds I could get were BSH and blue stuff from Frostscale, so the character had low everything, AP, hitpoints and crit. That made it 20 ss a day farm and very low gold income, because neither Mistywoods, nor killing 8 sentinels give much gold and take more than an hour together (doing Sentinels is hard in low gear, as you get killed if you aggro more than one, pulled by Horrors and one-shot by any Crimson who happens along for funsies).

 

At the same time you still need to run the purple level 45 dungeons to accumulate Machismos and Poha perfumes for the accessories at a painstakingly slow rate, and each level 45 dungeon takes forever to complete. That's another hour for 2 dungeons (and Naryu takes a lifetime & best to never step in there). Not to mention you need to run Mushin's Tower. Yeah, maybe it's trivial for some, I have given up on Floor 7 after spending over an hour on it once, and using up all my Master Repair tools. As far as I am concerned, Mushin's Tower has 6 floors.

 

Finally, yes, 2 hours to do the solo dailies in Silverfrost for 10 gold.

 

Yep, if you have 3 to 4 hours on hand, you can do it in a few weeks of grinding, to do those 2 Big Oathbreaker weapon breakthroughs and manage to get your accessories to the Awkened Siren.

Hi Domisotto,

 

You are missing out on running the blue dungeons as well because they drop gear breakthrough blue weapons that you can easily place on the market for the extra 30-70s here and there, they all add up and they can be repeated how many times you require.  Also there's things you can do in silverfrost that can earn you gold without needing much gear, for example trying to farm crit shields from Gabiyung bosses, you just need to do few damage from it to get credit and box, althoug it is RNG but outcome is pretty good to get a crit shield, which you can sell from anything 1g to 4G depending on the number of the shield.  Easily doable with even 300AP because each person gets their own personal loot box, thats why the bots were farming it in droves with 240AP.  Other things you can try is earn gold and buy the machismo's on the market instead of wasting 30minutes for 1G but then again if you have the time its all upto you how you want to manage your time.

 

The best thing i suggest you do is farm that boss, which is a good source of income for low geared ppl and it's not hard at all, that and loot blue breahthru weapons and throw them into the auction house.

 

Good luck.

[Shintuan]

Believe it or not. It's not that hard to be allowed in several of the purple 50 dungeons with even 400 ap. Just know your class and the mechs and lfg will save the day especially when that dungeon is a daily.  You'll get a lot more gold from completing the dailies in those dungeons and from people bidding on things like stingers. Just know what you're doing going in. Plenty of youtube videos and guides on them so that you can help out.

[DomiSotto]

1 hour ago, SongNhi said:

You are missing out on running the blue dungeons as well because they drop gear breakthrough blue weapons that you can easily place on the market for the extra 30-70s here and there, they all add up and they can be repeated how many times you require.  Also there's things you can do in silverfrost that can earn you gold without needing much gear, for example trying to farm crit shields from Gabiyung bosses, you just need to do few damage from it to get credit and box, althoug it is RNG but outcome is pretty good to get a crit shield, which you can sell from anything 1g to 4G depending on the number of the shield.  Easily doable with even 300AP because each person gets their own personal loot box, thats why the bots were farming it in droves with 240AP.  Other things you can try is earn gold and buy the machismo's on the market instead of wasting 30minutes for 1G but then again if you have the time its all upto you how you want to manage your time.

I did kill the boss when I could. But normally, unless a bot squad was leveling, nobody was there. Crit shields do not sell for that high in NA, 1 gold is if you get a good crit on it, so you are better off just running through the dailies instead, obviously not missing the chance to kill it when you can! Again, as I said - you can get the gear upgraded, but it takes a lot more time than you'd want to in the 350-450 stretch when the really lucrative content opens up.

[Shadzar]

2 hours ago, SongNhi said:

 It should net them around 40G or something? with that they can use to buy materials to upgrade their moonwater weapons.  

Except the problem is it takes 28 gold or more for your weapon on top of the materials, and about 28 gold each for the accesories as well. The money from the story doesnt hope to cover getting you upgraded from Moonwater to the Silverfrost item paths.

 

2 hours ago, Jaite said:

I wouldn't be able to tell you how you're still stuck grinding warrior tokens.

because there isn't a single thing enjoyable about it. I haven't played in almost 3 weeks because Mushin's is the ONLY thing I can do to upgrade and it just makes me sick. It is nothing but annoying monotony.

 

 

[Spyroxion]

Well my new assassin is now at 474 ap (true oathbreaker weapon, awk siren accs just infernal necklace, 15 ap soul, true oathbreaker bracelet stage 10, gems: 25ap, 140 life drain, 300add dmg). I didn't use any nebula stones yet, gonna use on next upgrade to awk breeze which will cost me roughly 200g + breaktrough. I'm also rank 7 premium so I get some discounts on upgrading and to reach this point it costed me about 700-800g (with going to awk breeze will be over 1k gold in total and it will bring me to 490ap). P.S.: hm1 lvl
Now, what do you think, how long it will take for a complete new player to reach this point in such cost by going this new upgrade path? + add time of learning game it self, learning his/her class etc... And at the current part I am, you can't do asura, can't do 4 man purples (well I am doing with clan, because they are quite strong + I know what to do). I think it will take them few months and by the time they reach this point, AP requirements will be even more higher knowing our community. 

[Shadzar]

 

2 hours ago, DomiSotto said:

Actually, my biggest problem is that the world and the character are just cardboard cutouts in a stage set. There are no dimensions to anything in this game,

That is a complaint I have from most of the recent anime coming out of Asia, and even western TV and movies. They seem to just want to half-arse, or try to revision someone else's work. Harry Potter for all the copying and childish things in it was a refreshing set of movies with a new twist on an old idea. We just won't see an Dicken's style writing coming out of the hack that make stories these days because everyone sitting on computers all day have become complacent and ignorant, and frankly too lazy because they have given themselves ADD by being too easily distracted by the "new shiny".

 

Kids these days with their gigabit bandwidth speeds. When I was there age we were lucky to have 300 baud, and when 14.4k came out in your area you felt like Rockefeller!

[SongNhi]

You're not supposed to do it all at once, it's an MMO.  I stated that you get sufficient gold to get your weapon upto silverfrost, not the whole bee's knees.  Once you're in silverfrost you can obviously farm gold more easily and not be stuck in moonwater, which is the whole point of people thinking the game is stale and cant progress past moonwater and give up.  It's not, its easily done, people just think that if you cant progress your gear, you cant move onto the next map.  That is counter productive thinking.  Upgrade your weap, will increase your efficiency in grinding and then it opens more doors for revenue..and then move onto accessories and pick the one that gives u the biggest gain.  No one said do it all at once after you complete the storyline, obviously.

 

Anf if you think 40G from storyline + 20G solo/blue pug dailies per day is not enough for you to get past moonwater, and 1 week's grinding is too much work then perhaps MMO's are kinda not the right genre cos as i know it, unless it's a MOBA, most MMO's require you to grind your ass off in 1 way or another, be it gear, or xp level.

[DomiSotto]

13 minutes ago, Shadzar said:

Except the problem is it takes 28 gold or more for your weapon on top of the materials, and about 28 gold each for the accesories as well. The moeny form the stroy doesnt hope to cover getting you upgraded from Moonwater to the Silverfrost item paths.

You are forgetting that you need one gem (25 AP diamond), and that's 10 g.  The money from the story covers the character to get to True Profane/Awakened Infernal, certainly not to get all the Weapon and Accessories to use up those Oathbreaker drops from the storyline in the upgrades.

 

Which results in the inventory overflowing with the breakthrough and evolution items as you are straining to do the content to catch up. It's weapons for each of gazillion stages to come plus 6 accessories for all the many-many-many stages to come. And if you did not keep it, you might get stuck with a 7g bill for something like Enigmatic belt.

 

My next inventory tab in the all important primary storage costs 15 dragon bags to unlock. I have three or four rings and earrings hanging in the character's inventory along with all the other crucially important items I have to carry around. Every time I do the quest, I am overloaded.

 

Inventory costs indecent amount of RL money - it is 11 bags for 5$ US, so to unlock just one row I need to spend 10$ or wait for a few month for Daily Dash drops. And the Daily Dash has been disabled for weeks now for me. When it was infinite, it was Okay.  Or I need to sell gold... wait, that very gold I need for mats and upgrades, of course.

[DomiSotto]

12 minutes ago, Shadzar said:

That is a complaint I have from most of the recent anime coming out of Asia, and even western TV and movies. They seem to just want to half-arse, or try to revision someone else's work. Harry Potter for all the copying and childish things in it was a refreshing set of movies with a new twist on an old idea. We just won't see an Dicken's style writing coming out of the hack that make stories these days because everyone sitting on computers all day have become complacent and ignorant, and frankly too lazy because they have given themselves ADD by being too easily distracted by the "new shiny".

 

Kids these days with their gigabit bandwidth speeds. When I was there age we were lucky to have 300 baud, and when 14.4k came out in your area you felt like Rockefeller!

To be honest, I find that the quality of writing has improved tremendously, with really rich fantasy books coming out with authors like Martin or Abercrombie, and the television series like the Battlestar Galactica and Rome that are way more complex than the earlier stuff. SWTOR blew Bio's earlier games out of the water with its story-telling and the way the world felt, though I am still crazy about Jade Empire.

 

I also like the newer trends in the historic writings where the authors actually write compelling narratives trying to quote a lot of historic documents to show how differently people thought and acted in the past, instead of telling you simply which year who killed whom or build which temple old-school. I've read and watched better things in the past 10 years than I did prior. I also do not mind that the movies have become visually far more appealing.

 

I just need to pull myself out of BnS and let myself enjoy mass Effect, because I absolutely loved that game so far content wise. It's just the combat system and the false drive to compete and achieve that keeps me to BnS, it pushes those buttons... evil, I tell you, evil!

[Shadzar]

Oh, I am not forgetting. My main vault section is full of accessories form the storyline, a few sirn acessories and MOST of the pirate accessories that I can't upgrade yet cause of the Warrior Tokens. I have no room for anything else.

 

The fact the daily dash just screws people over and stops with 2 weeks left to go so you cant even try to get those warrior tokens, siren emblesms, pirate emblems, so you dont have to have your brain murdered on monotony is just pathetic.

 

but again the daily dash rips off Premium players before it takes 21 spins you paid for and destroys them because it jsut ends. Like people only have 1 character. Well in truth they do, because they cant take leveling more than 1 character for the majority of players, but still other players should be allowed to ty for these ugly outfits multiple times so they have them for EACH of their characters.

 

There is jsut so much flawed with the Silvefrost release since we got in 2 months what took other countries 3 years to work towards.

[Shadzar]

12 minutes ago, SongNhi said:

You're not supposed to do it all at once, it's an MMO.

Maybe you need to compare the Asia release dates of content to the NA/EU ones and you will see the amount of time that let people play casually to get to Silverfrost over the 3 year period so they could do various things on various days, while NA/EU got that all rushed in 3 months. now another update coming with the 4th month to rush people more, and the toxic community of rushers in the game there is no hope for casual players. The game isnt scaled to allow casual players because it had a high initial turnout on an already inflated health base for the monsters.

 

Every live stream they keep getting so excited because they have GM weapons and can gift themselves the best items so dont have to play out the grind and see how bad it really is and don't do anything to solve it for their players.

[Nyanzilla]

In such cases, I'm really glad to not hold any deep attachments to MMOGs anymore. As such I level a bunch of toons until Silvermoon and my highest character at some point to 50 and after Jinsoyun story arc is over, I'll probably quit. No hard feelings whatsoever. I'm simply not interested in endgame group-or-die dungeons. They cause nausea, no matter how short or easy they may turn out to be. That's nothing bad per say as I've had already a case of MMO "burnout" before I got back and had enough fun to level all classes in GW2 to 80 and unlock a few elite specs. I'm weird like that.

[Shadzar]

It isn't just you, the whole idea of an MMORPG has gone unrealized, and it is because there isnt supposed to be an end. That means you have to keep adding more and more content and with like D3 it always has new content, mostly resetting the "season".

 

Most cRPGs today level you too fast and dont know how to properly scale the game. If the first "area" should take a month, then the next 2, then 3, etc. Now they expect exponential jumps to give more time for half broken and half thought out storylines so it goes 1 week for the first "area" then 1 month, then 4 months... it has no logical progression and people gt burned out because there has been SO MANY MMOs that people would rather play some flappy bird app game than a fully game because they are so tired of the grind for zero sense of accomplishment.

[DomiSotto]

56 minutes ago, Nyanzilla said:

In such cases, I'm really glad to not hold any deep attachments to MMOGs anymore. As such I level a bunch of toons until Silvermoon and my highest character at some point to 50 and after Jinsoyun story arc is over, I'll probably quit. No hard feelings whatsoever. I'm simply not interested in endgame group-or-die dungeons. They cause nausea, no matter how short or easy they may turn out to be. That's nothing bad per say as I've had already a case of MMO "burnout" before I got back and had enough fun to level all classes in GW2 to 80 and unlock a few elite specs. I'm weird like that.

I feel the same way, except I see how I can make it work building a little SSP-to-crafting scheme. I am to the point when it is actually easy to play it, and I enjoy easy. :) I know I can get to AP500 now that I am AP470. If I want to, I should do it and do it now.

 

But the gear is not everything either. The HM books is one thing that freaks me out right now.

 

For the scheme to be successful,  I'd need to firstly catch up my alt to my main, then play for about 3 hours a day, on two characters, doing the SSP.  And it is fun for me, don't take me wrong. But! Also, what if tomorrow new content comes, and nobody does the SSP any longer, there is another venue for which I am undergeared? Catch-up time!

 

In all those endless hours I could be exploring another planet in ME, and getting gear as I go, and the story will be awesome, and the voice, the dialogue...! But then, if I drop BnS now, that's that, I will never catch up again if I wanted to. Why would I want to?

 

I just can't wrap my head around why I am still playing BnS & what holds me to it. It's really so weird! I am a rational person. And every reason in the world points me to closing BnS off, and forgetting about it. And I don't. Well, I only did mushroom runs yesterday. Maybe I am on the mend :)

[Spyroxion]

Yeah kinda main problem is extremely rushed continent.. People at KR and other servers had a lot of time to farm in between patches and here it is going waaaay too fast. Like on one side it is good that we get stuff fast (especially story quest, HM lvls that takes a while to grind), but on other hand it is RIP to all new players, casual players, players who like having few good geared chars, Also, at one point we are gonna stop getting continent fast and phase will slow down and hen elitists will start QQing for updates and that casuals are catching up. That's one of the reasons why they do not release Soul Fighter june 1st like it supposed to be by the KR updates - just so they could feed people with more stuff to do when they start to run low on updates

[Dr SoulReaper]

I will say currently im guilty of being salty because of mat prices... But that is only because I want to get to true pirate on my weapon... After that I'll slow down and focus on my other peices... It's taken me quite a while to basically break the awakened infernal wall but now that I am the game is getting a bit more fun... (Even if I can't do lvl 50 4-man stuff as a 444ap lock currently hahaha)

[okitaluc]

The game design is bad , simple as that. Putting so much RNG in the lvl up process and not  adjusting it after the content becomes old (and dead) is one of the many flaws this game have, obviously NCSoft hope people that hit the wall pay (with real money) their way up in gear and do events to "help" them gear up while profiting from it , the game is totally unfriendly to new players.

[Shadzar]

11 hours ago, Dr SoulReaper said:

I will say currently im guilty of being salty because of mat prices

The whole thing since the Gem Hammer incident is the problem. They could have started NA/EU without siren/pirate paths, and I am stuck in Pirate unable to move on to silverfrost path because of it.

 

We should have never had the siren/pirate paths, they should have just stopped everyone at Profane to wait until silverfrost and release the new path.

 

My biggest problem is the time they think EVERYONE has had to move from Profane to whatever comes after True Pirate 10. It isn't really the rush of new content, it is the NA/EU devs rushing people through those stages of weapon because they had a poor release schema and poor release schedule. They didnt think it through. They haven't changed the material costs for those obsolete paths that should have NEVER been in the game.

 

 

Salty, no infuriated at the pathetic design and release decisions is what I am. An ounce of prevention versus a pound of pain.... NCWest chose a pound of pain for everyone because they wouldn't try an ounce of prevention.

[Spyroxion]

Okay so I just wrapped up my new sin that I lvl'ed this week. Went to awaken breeze (yes I went new upgrade path), awaken siren accessories, oathbreaker necklace, 25ap, 300add and 140 life drain gems. According to gold achievement  (900gold) + some Moonwater trans stones (around 25) bought on other char and just mailed and some small stuff with it, it costed me 1k gold. That's 497ap at hm2. Well you can start going to 500ap dungeons with, but by current weeks prices it will cost ya about 1k gold.... How long it will take for completely new players to farm this amount I have no freakin idea.... (also add weapon RNG boxes...)

[Shadzar]

That is the problem, you might have spent 2 gold in Viridian Coast, 20 gold in Cinderlands depending on how much crafting you had to do, and 1000 gold for all parts and such in Moonwater.

 

Moonwater isn't end game content anymore and things have to be lowered in terms of what you need to upgrade. money and materials, or materials need to drop at a rate that means soulstones are back to 10 silver and less on the market to reduce these costs.

 

Alternately our money shouldn't have been reduced to where Moonwater gives pocket change instead of gold per quest like it is said other regions got, where we only see a gold for Mushin's, 5.5 gold total for ALL of E Fleet and Nighstshade.