Class discrimination - can we please not do this?

[VirtuoZzzo]

8 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Total damage output btw is the definition dps - there is a formula to calculate the dps

I mean a dps meter is calculating the dps after the bossfight and not during the fight. 

DPS is damage PER SECOND. It must be calculated every second and after every hit.

[Aint Rabid]

12 minutes ago, Shiune said:

You can't track down the exact dps without a dps meter of course. 

 

But from videos, playing different classes and know their skills, calculating your own damage, watching the aggro of the bosses without threat skills/gear, getting input from the Asian versions and several other things you can make a list which is more or less correct. 

 

It is theorycrafting to a certain point yes but you can make a good assumption about how the dps chart is looking like. 

 

But those assumptions can be left alone anyway as soon as we get the dps meter (if we get it ofc - which I really hope). 

 

Total damage output btw is the definition of dps (far example you make 1m dps on a 5m HP boss = 20% dps/damage output). 

I mean a dps meter is calculating the dps after the bossfight and not during the fight. 

You know what people say about assume.......

 

Also, with regards to dps vs damage output, I used a parser in another mmo.  It does track the target uptime, etc.  And total damage out it is not the same as damage per second.  I played a ranger, had 100% uptime, did 450 dps.  A sin in the group had 45% uptime did 600 dps.  Total damage out on my ranger was 3 times as much.  So there is a gap in how you want to calculate dps vs damage output,

 

Sorry if my previous post wasnt as specific.

 

Edit: DPS meters/parsers dont wait till after the boss fight to calculate.  It is real time tracking.

[Shiune]

@both:

I edited my post to show you how your dps is being calculated by the dps meter. 

3 minutes ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

DPS is damage PER SECOND. It must be calculated every second and after every hit.

Wow xD 

So if I make a 10k crit I have 10k dps? And if my next hit hits for 11k I have 11k dps? hurr durr. 

[Shiune]

6 minutes ago, Aint Rabid said:

Edit: DPS meters/parsers dont wait till after the boss fight to calculate.  It is real time tracking.

Think about how much sense a dps meter makes then. 

 

The dps meter is there to show you how much damage you have dealt in a fight compared to how much dmg your partymember has dealt in the same time. 

 

A dps meter have to calculate your dps somehow and this either works if you kill a boss or make dmg on a dummy for some minutes. 

Otherwise your dps can't be calculated at all. 

[VirtuoZzzo]

3 minutes ago, Shiune said:

@both:

I edited my post to show you how your dps is being calculated by the dps meter. 

Wow xD 

So if I make a 10k crit I have 10k dps? And if my next hit hits for 11k I have 11k dps? hurr durr. 

Exactly. And if your next hit is 5k, your dps will be 7.5k. You sum up damage dealt and devide it by time. It is dps. And while the battle continues you'll get a more stable number showing the actual dps. 

[821031_1452549945]

k we got it u love sin lets move on

[Shiune]

12 minutes ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

Exactly. And if your next hit is 5k, your dps will be 7.5k. You sum up damage dealt and devide it by time. It is dps. And while the battle continues you'll get a more stable number showing the actual dps. 

Have you even played a game with a dps meter before? 

 

You need to hit a target for a good amount of time to calculate your dps (the calculation I wrote down already) otherwise you simply can't know your dps. 

 

I mean look at it:

If i anicancel RB+LMB+F with 6k+3k+9k in 1 second I should have 18k dps. 

But what if the exact same rotation hits for 5k+3k+9k the next time and the next rotation makes also not the same damage due rng dmg modifiers? You'll have 3 different dps charts then. 

You have to calculate the 3 hits together and devide them by 3 (because 3 seconds) to know your actual dps. 

And what is the best method to do so? Exactly: kill a boss and calculate the whole dmg you have done to it and devide it by the time you needed - that's how a dps meter is working and your dps is being calculated. 

3 minutes ago, 821031_1452549945 said:

k we got it u love sin lets move on

That's not even the topic anymore smart azz. 

[Aint Rabid]

19 minutes ago, Shiune said:

Think about how much sense a dps meter makes then. 

 

The dps meter is there to show you how much damage you have dealt in a fight compared to how much dmg your partymember has dealt in the same time. 

 

A dps meter have to calculate your dps somehow and this either works if you kill a boss or make dmg on a dummy for some minutes. 

Otherwise your dps can't be calculated at all. 

I'm beginning to think you have never run a parser or damage meter.  I can, again bring up specifics, I use skada damage meter and Recount damage meter in WoW.  Both have real time reporting and both have a tab for DPS AND damage done.  They are two different parts of the respective damage meter.  The mmo community as a whole has accepted the term dps meter when every parser or dps meter is in fact a damage meter.

 

Even running AION rainmaker was a parser of damage which may have included DPS.  I havent used Aion Rainmaker in quite some time due to my absence from that game so I forget if it had a target uptime.  Both meters from WoW do or did.

 

And, I am really trying to make this simple.  I had a shadow priest in Wow, the dps was a few thousand less than a rogue's dps.  But the total damage out was reversed, meaning I had more damage out on my shadow priest than the rogue because I had a higher uptime.

 

Again, a modern parser or damage meter will run in real time.  It will not wait till the fight is over.  It will show or display whatever you wish it to show/display, ie dps, hps, damage and so on.

[Zel]

3 minutes ago, Aint Rabid said:

I'm beginning to think you have never run a parser or damage meter.  I can, again bring up specifics, I use skada damage meter and Recount damage meter in WoW.  Both have real time reporting and both have a tab for DPS AND damage done.  They are two different parts of the respective damage meter.  The mmo community as a whole has accepted the term dps meter when every parser or dps meter is in fact a damage meter.

 

Even running AION rainmaker was a parser of damage which may have included DPS.  I havent used Aion Rainmaker in quite some time due to my absence from that game so I forget if it had a target uptime.  Both meters from WoW do or did.

 

And, I am really trying to make this simple.  I had a shadow priest in Wow, the dps was a few thousand less than a rogue's dps.  But the total damage out was reversed, meaning I had more damage out on my shadow priest than the rogue because I had a higher uptime.

 

Again, a modern parser or damage meter will run in real time.  It will not wait till the fight is over.  It will show or display whatever you wish it to show/display, ie dps, hps, damage and so on.

Aion Rainmeter had DPS uptime but it was wonky as hell with charge skills. It also had total damage done, raw DPS, and a total damage by skill breakdown (Which was awesome). It ran realtime as well.

[VirtuoZzzo]

55 minutes ago, Shiune said:

videos

I have no clue how you gonna compare those with your own, but only by the numbers my seems higher with both builds.

 

 

 

 

 

[SecretLyn]

I've been lurking in this thread for a while and just wanted to put this up. It was my first run of the day with lots of mistakes and I'm not that good of a summoner but I think it's a decent representation of summoner's damage output in an actual fight.

 

 

 

Take it as you will. 

[Aint Rabid]

I feel bad, we kind of derailed the thread a bit.  Wanting certain classes is the group leader's preference.  I just find running yeti, scorpio etc is funny now.  First week it was 430+ AP, the next week its up to 450+, yesterday I was in the dungeon finder seeing people wanting 480+ for 6 man.....

 

Another problem I have had is not the class make up, but rather the silent people when asked if they know the fight.  End up wiping 2-3 times, refinding people 2-3 times cause said person wouldn't ask what to do or watch a 4 minute youtube vid... I have no problem helping someone learn the fight, but you have to ask instead of being quiet,  But in all fairness to the OP, Class make up for a dungeon is all subjective.  Its not your fault someone wants only certain classes and its not their fault either.  I does happen in every mmo I ever played.  Just like someone suggested, make your own group, run with guildies or laugh like hell while in the dungeon finder.

[Hongmoon]

You can easily carry a team of bads as a kfm/fm/sum with your party iframes. Being picky just makes you look bad.

[EasleyRR]

On 06/04/2016 at 0:27 AM, Sobereign said:

dude you're dumb as balls LMAO, annnd this is why people think NA is a joke, bcus you kick out the highest dps class because of shit popular opinion. and plus, summoners run more in arena soooo lol ok. rather deal with running sin than a hacker summoner, so idk about u...

 

sin has highest dps in game, and for ppl who dont believe this, think about their dmg 

5 poison stacks on dark strike spam 

not only does sin have a more OP DoT (poison), dark strike instanly creates bleed stacks (so think of BSH robot lacerations), which is 2 DoTs + the constant damage they do in and out of stealth + fighting spirit buff, which an FM can never have.  Therefore, while an FM has burn, burn cannot beat 5 stacks of poison and 5 stacks of bleed.  Wait until sins get lmb and the 3 hm books, bcus sin becomes god of PVE, bcus of their OP evasion and their decoy gives 2 second iframe on every counter and shunpo/backstep and with a lot of other shit to use to survive.  Also, if they stun the mob, sin gets another damage boost, which can make a sin hit up to 30k while spamming F (30k 0.5 sec spam in 2.5s which can be refreshed instantly because of the poison stacks) (which is nearly impossible for an FM or a Summ).

 

I'm not hating or being a ragey brat about other classes out topping or anything, because I've played all equally on KR/JP/TW, and even then it's absolutely known that sin is kingpin of pve, whether or not you like to believe it.  The best lair runs I have are with my perm group, 1 BM (tank)/2 FM/1 Sin, and sin refreshing fighting spirit makes our runs ridiculously fast while FM takes out totems and sin/fm stunning king naga block.  In necro 4-mans, I stealth take out lord pyres at each ward because people will get rekt because of adds.  in yeti I stealth mushrooms to take them out to remove the ice spots.  so the fact that ppl think this is sort of ridiculous 

 

So use your brain before sayin shit like that, because I can assure you, 9/10 I take aggro off of an FM AND a SUMMONER because I out DPS them ten-fold and end up off-tanking the bosses.  but bcus of perm group no need to off-tank for me.  plus sins can always never get aggro (which makes the tank life easy) because of stealth

In theory it's all good, but ingame never seem a Sin do that much as you say, i'm not saying they do bad, but also they don't that great things u say...i don't have any problem with classes in 4man dungeon, as long as they have at least 450AP and know how to do it. i'm fine.

 

p.s: Atm i play FM as main, but i've played Sin/WL on Taiwan server. 

[Aint Rabid]

19 minutes ago, EasleyRR said:

In theory it's all good, but ingame never seem a Sin do that much as you say, i'm not saying they do bad, but also they don't that great things u say...i don't have any problem with classes in 4man dungeon, as long as they have at least 450AP and know how to do it. i'm fine.

 

p.s: Atm i play FM as main, but i've played Sin/WL on Taiwan server. 

HueHueHue, sorry had to do it and good luck with the Olympics down that way

[SkoobyDoo]

On 4/6/2016 at 0:10 AM, Shiune said:

Yeah so here is my 4-man Yeti Assassin pov gameplay:

 

The vid quality actually is much better as here on youtube o.O

Maybe it will get better later after youtube edited it but dunno...

 

 

 

 

Like i said unfortunately we didn't play with a tank and i had the aggro pretty often, therefore i couldn't do as much dps as i wanted to but this is how an Assassin plays PvE with the dark build. 

 

Edit:

Ah yeah the quality is good now

ok bro here 4man with so called bad dps warlock summomer.

 

 

 

we have 2.40 min on timer when we kill it and our party gear is way worst then your party gear ( you yourself have 540+ ap) ,so yes tell me again how  better assasin is then warlock or summoner.

 

p.s. ignore my *cricket* ups i really space out on this boss this was like 8 run in a row so i  was kinda tired.

 

and here is another timer 2.20 we with x2 summoners and warlock ( the other summoner is not ever 500 ap nor have any good SS we simple carry him for the solo yeti kill title)

 

[VirtuoZzzo]

This is how I tank this *cricket* on a daily basis. Party gear check at the end. (wait for youtube to set a better quality)

 

 

 

[SkoobyDoo]

4 minutes ago, VirtuoZzzo said:

This is how I tank this *cricket* on a daily basis. Party gear check at the end. (wait for youtube to set a better quality)

 

 

 

i am so jelly on this 541 AP :(   i am holding on gear upgrades for now because i wanna buy  my block HM skill first its OP in pvp,but cost near 600g total :(

[Lawfer]

its not discrimination some players think theyre too good , when its totally the contrary they play an unbalanced class witch requires no skill at all like summoners, and they also call u noob.

 

actual summoner player who thinks its too good

 

 

 

[SkoobyDoo]

2 hours ago, Lawfer said:

its not discrimination some players think theyre too good , when its totally the contrary they play an unbalanced class witch requires no skill at all like summoners, and they also call u noob.

 

actual summoner player who thinks its too good

 

 

 

such hate , much salt.

 

at least bad player on summoner can get decent results.monkey on assasin is more of a burden then help.i have seen some comeplete retarded sins in groups.for example  in lab assasin asked me to stop my dmg because my  dot poison that i apply somehow  *cricket* up his poison and he cant do  normal dmg...what??????????????and if we wipe they are first one to say | summoner why you didnt heal me,why you didnt seed,why you didnt CC the boss,why you didnt tank,why you didnt res me with the cat.you all hate sums but you  are first to ask for our utility  in dungeons.

and yes you are right summoner is kinda unbalanced on current eu/na patch,and thats why everyone want them in group over other classes such as assasins for example.

[Sobereign]

shrugs, idk its not my fault NA has shitty people trying to play hard classes and not trying to learn game mechanics.

why you try to steer away from pugs.  

 

what pisses me off is BR/Indo/VN/everyone not living in usa or canada PLAYING PING RELIANT CLASSES, so I 100% understand the hate on getting a chilean sin with *cricket*ing 230ms ping.  i get it.  but it doesnt mean all of them are bad, and most of the time, I get shitty laggy summoners who cant ani cancel, doesnt know iframes, and doesnt contribute to groups

tis why i dont pug.

wat can u do doe, wutever.  the thing is though, if [range] ppl continue being melee racist, they're gonna have a bad time once 2nd part of sf mountains comes.

 

vry bad time, and thats when they start praising melee ass 

[Lawfer]

1 hour ago, SkoobyDoo said:

such hate , much salt.

 

at least bad player on summoner can get decent results.monkey on assasin is more of a burden then help.i have seen some comeplete retarded sins in groups.for example  in lab assasin asked me to stop my dmg because my  dot poison that i apply somehow  *cricket* up his poison and he cant do  normal dmg...what??????????????and if we wipe they are first one to say | summoner why you didnt heal me,why you didnt seed,why you didnt CC the boss,why you didnt tank,why you didnt res me with the cat.you all hate sums but you  are first to ask for our utility  in dungeons.

and yes you are right summoner is kinda unbalanced on current eu/na patch,and thats why everyone want them in group over other classes such as assasins for example.

seems you didnt understand me, i dont mind to play with summoners, i love it, until SOME..well actually a lot  of them  they start to talk about how much skilled they are and why they are platinum,teaching other classes how to play to reach his lv etc.

[Shiune]

15 hours ago, SkoobyDoo said:

ok bro here 4man with so called bad dps warlock summomer.

 

 

 

we have 2.40 min on timer when we kill it and our party gear is way worst then your party gear ( you yourself have 540+ ap) ,so yes tell me again how  better assasin is then warlock or summoner.

 

p.s. ignore my *cricket* ups i really space out on this boss this was like 8 run in a row so i  was kinda tired.

 

and here is another timer 2.20 we with x2 summoners and warlock ( the other summoner is not ever 500 ap nor have any good SS we simple carry him for the solo yeti kill title)

 

Well if you want so i recorded another run much faster than both of your runs but with more or less the same classes with similar gear - except that i was playing instead a 2nd FM.

Still without tank because i just couldn't find any BM/KFM but it worked fine.

Our summoner even died in the end otherwise we would have like 3:30 left...enjoy.

 

 

 

 

[Nighsaroth]

Dear all,

 

Please keep your posts in check and keep an insult-free discussion.

 

Have a nice day in Blade and Soul.

 

- Nighsaroth

[SkoobyDoo]

i dont know how similar is the gear since you did not show what items your party mebers have.but i know you are 540+ i am 516,

also   you have trash talk warlocks so much,you even said they are so bad even the buff they bring cant make up for the dps lose they do.in your first video you have  dancer over warlock and you kill the yeti with 1 min 35 sec on timer.and now we see you replace dancer with WL and get normal FM ( first one was using only frost spells or something) and  you kill yeti 2min faster....soooo the big dmg deference is not coming from you as assasin its from warlock and FM.you simple prove people opinion that sum/fm/wl are top pve classes  right now.this 3 classes +1 random is best setup you can get for 4man runs.and this is exactly why everyone ask for them in lobby.