make summoners playable

[xtclikeafox]

Currently summoner is very unbalanced against various classes. I have listed some issues and recommendations
in an effort to help balance classes  to encourage a fair skill-based match vs cheese insta wins for opponents. I know summoners get a lot of hate from beginners overwhelmed because we have a pet and there's two things to click on. None of our skills or playstyles are as broken as the classes listed below. There is one summoner that somehow made it to the top ten ranking. Currently six of the top 10 ranked players are kfm's which is an excellent indication of class balance.

 

destroyer-less dmg when enraged. this is particularly noticable in 3's. during an interfere no class compares to the sheer amount of dps from their "insta-kill" combo while enraged. That's probably why you see more destroyers in pvp then any other class. combined. People talk about destro bots all day. The dps is so cheese that its the go-to for botting.

 

kfm-either a dmg nerf or make escapes possible to use when stunned. With destroyer's high dps attacks you can at least use escapes. Against kfm's you are perma stunned. From full health to full dead you cannot use any skills,escapes,or move. This is retarded. Probably the most broken part of the entire game. No class should be able to completely kill their opponent in one unblockable combo. A lot of people complain about summoner cc's but its very easy to kite them. and if one does catch you then you can use escapes. Again...6/10 of the top 10 are kfms.

 

assassin-severly nerf stealth duration or invun time. I lose to sins in pvp more then any other class(most kfm ranked above me in diamond). The currently gameplay style is to basically kite around the outside and periodically throw max range poison bombs. Engaging as infrequently as possible and only when invunerability is up to ensure no dmg is received. When they play the highest priority is that stealth is never on cooldown. If you use escapes facing the opposite direction to close the gap and catch them then they just teleport themselves to the opposite side of the screen. Adding a pvp mechanic that requires a player to perform a preset number of skills during a round should be added so that every sin in arena isn't just waiting out the clock. Even if they are bad and you are at 80% health and they are at 10% health, for some reason, they still get the win when they wait the clock out. Classes should win in arena from fighting...not running from fights.

[Anveena]

Nice troll.

[xtclikeafox]

thanks. your feedback is much appreciated and very important.

2 minutes ago, Anveena said:

Nice troll.

 

[FinJen Shy]

5 minutes ago, Anveena said:

Nice troll.

 

This

[xtclikeafox]

2 minutes ago, FinJen Shy said:

 

This

what particular part do you disagree with? are you both kfms frightened by the concept of having to use multiple skills, move, react, and play in rounds vs having a one hit cheese combo? or are you the thieves that don't want to pvp...in pvp?

[Charoy]

You need to faceroll the keybord harder.

[deejays]

20 minutes ago, Charoy said:

You need to faceroll the keybord harder.

Yeah m8, do like Charoy told ya.

Succes guaranted,trust me.

Press an F key now and then, and bam...Diamond.

[xtclikeafox]

lol. the trolls. if it was that ez there would be more high ranked summoners. we need a way to counter the broken things i mentioned to rly get far.

[Praipus]

10 minutes ago, xtclikeafox said:

lol. the trolls. if it was that ez there would be more high ranked summoners. we need a way to counter the broken things i mentioned to rly get far.

The thing about fighting Destroyers AND KFM's is that, it's really not hard. you just need to learn their combos and learn when they get close to you, you need to iframe or knock them back. You have the skills to do it. If you've noticed the top 10 pvp ranks (before the bots took over) over half of the top 10 people were summoners. I main a summoner. Life isn't that hard. faceroll less, learn what your skills do.

[Charoy]

11 minutes ago, xtclikeafox said:

lol. the trolls. if it was that ez there would be more high ranked summoners. we need a way to counter the broken things i mentioned to rly get far.

You mean even MORE summoners? Cuz top rankings are already flooded by summoners.

[amorent]

Nice troll

[Praipus]

and as for assassin... from the sound of it you're a rumblbees summoner. use sunflower. you can knock them out of stealth. all assassins have to come out of stealth eventually, hit them with your doom and bloom. that'll keep them out of stealth for a little bit also.

[HUnewearl]

*Takes a deep breath*

 

So let me address this in pieces.

 

1. Summoners are presently overperforming, despite the many months of practice. I posted some data on this on Sunday.
2. Bots are not Destroyers because the class is easy or strong. The bots are Destroyers due to the mechanical strength of the class in early play, which allows the bots to level up efficiently and farm. Grab is a reliable combination which recovers a large amount of health early on. A summoner bot has more points of failure, such as appropriately controlling / resummoning the cat. The bots created for 1v1 PvP specifically are Summoners, and are common opponents in Platinum. One such instance:
3. Destroyers are presently underperforming at high levels of play, as you can see from the same data (having 1/3 as many Diamond Destroyers as Diamond Summoners). Destroyers do have the upper hand against Summoners, but they suffer two of the most hopeless matchups in the game against KFMs and Assassins.
4. KFMs are overpowered. They will be that much more horrifyingly powerful as time goes on. They are the top class in Korea, despite a history of being underpowered (reducing the number of players), and despite the large number of Assassins (due to being historically overpowered) who enjoy the only really favorable matchup against them.
5. I hate assassins. I hate them more than anyone else here. I hate them SO MUCH. But really, Summoner is a rock-hard counter to Assassin. You shouldn't be losing any match to them, ever. In the community matchup chart from less than a month ago, players judged Summoner > Assassin to be the 5th most lopsided matchup, after Summoner > BM, BM > FM, Assassin > KFM, and Assassin > BM.

[xtclikeafox]

Ty for post. Most comments were predictably trolls. I'd like to point out assassins are an easy matchup when they fight. I think adding a minimum threshold for skills used would ensure they are fighting and not distancing themselves the entire round. I dont mean sins kiting in and out are tricky. I mean sins that don't fight period. maybe a combined15 seconds of the entire round within range(when the pop invun). the amount of sins waiting out the clock as a primary tactic is pretty gross.

 

17 minutes ago, HUnewearl said:

*Takes a deep breath*

 

So let me address this in pieces.

 

1. Summoners are presently overperforming, despite the many months of practice. I posted some data on this on Sunday.
2. Bots are not Destroyers because the class is easy or strong. The bots are Destroyers due to the mechanical strength of the class in early play, which allows the bots to level up efficiently and farm. Grab is a reliable combination which recovers a large amount of health early on. A summoner bot has more points of failure, such as appropriately controlling / resummoning the cat. The bots created for 1v1 PvP specifically are Summoners, and are common opponents in Platinum. One such instance:
3. Destroyers are presently underperforming at high levels of play, as you can see from the same data (having 1/3 as many Diamond Destroyers as Diamond Summoners). Destroyers do have the upper hand against Summoners, but they suffer two of the most hopeless matchups in the game against KFMs and Assassins.
4. KFMs are overpowered. They will be that much more horrifyingly powerful as time goes on. They are the top class in Korea, despite a history of being underpowered (reducing the number of players), and despite the large number of Assassins (due to being historically overpowered) who enjoy the only really favorable matchup against them.
5. I hate assassins. I hate them more than anyone else here. I hate them SO MUCH. But really, Summoner is a rock-hard counter to Assassin. You shouldn't be losing any match to them, ever. In the community matchup chart from less than a month ago, players judged Summoner > Assassin to be the 5th most lopsided matchup, after Summoner > BM, BM > FM, Assassin > KFM, and Assassin > BM.

 

23 minutes ago, Praipus said:

and as for assassin... from the sound of it you're a rumblbees summoner. use sunflower. you can knock them out of stealth. all assassins have to come out of stealth eventually, hit them with your doom and bloom. that'll keep them out of stealth for a little bit also.

nope i use sunflower. They stay as far out of range as possible so even if you doom and bloom you cant attack them at these long ranges. even if they slip up and i catch them they just teleport to the other side of the arena. its not passive gameplayers thats annoying its 100% avoidance sins that are the problem.

30 minutes ago, Charoy said:

You mean even MORE summoners? Cuz top rankings are already flooded by summoners.

Are they? you should check rankings. I've never seen more then a couple make top rankings at best. definitely never have seen anything like 6/10 summoners like how it is currently with kfm.

[Ra9eQuit]

1 hour ago, HUnewearl said:

*Takes a deep breath*

 

So let me address this in pieces.

 

1. Summoners are presently overperforming, despite the many months of practice. I posted some data on this on Sunday.
2. Bots are not Destroyers because the class is easy or strong. The bots are Destroyers due to the mechanical strength of the class in early play, which allows the bots to level up efficiently and farm. Grab is a reliable combination which recovers a large amount of health early on. A summoner bot has more points of failure, such as appropriately controlling / resummoning the cat. The bots created for 1v1 PvP specifically are Summoners, and are common opponents in Platinum. One such instance:
3. Destroyers are presently underperforming at high levels of play, as you can see from the same data (having 1/3 as many Diamond Destroyers as Diamond Summoners). Destroyers do have the upper hand against Summoners, but they suffer two of the most hopeless matchups in the game against KFMs and Assassins.
4. KFMs are overpowered. They will be that much more horrifyingly powerful as time goes on. They are the top class in Korea, despite a history of being underpowered (reducing the number of players), and despite the large number of Assassins (due to being historically overpowered) who enjoy the only really favorable matchup against them.
5. I hate assassins. I hate them more than anyone else here. I hate them SO MUCH. But really, Summoner is a rock-hard counter to Assassin. You shouldn't be losing any match to them, ever. In the community matchup chart from less than a month ago, players judged Summoner > Assassin to be the 5th most lopsided matchup, after Summoner > BM, BM > FM, Assassin > KFM, and Assassin > BM.

Incredible research and contribution to the community. Keep up the good work!

[SuGenma]

Summoner needs everything exept buff, You got it all wrong man. Let me give you some advice to reach diamond easy. 

 

 

You start by facerolling on the keyboard. You reach plat in no time. Here is the tricky part. Faceroll wont help anymore.. You need to use your hands aswell now. Smash your face to the keyboard while using 4 other vingers tabbing the buttons. Then scream as loud as you can, so your pet get courage. Then trow your keyboard to the ground and jump on it. Meanwhile you put your mouse in your cricket and sit on it. Do this every match and you will be diamond in no time. If you want to see video how they do it, check youtube. They got really helpfull tutorial for prow scummoners

[FinJen Shy]

7 hours ago, amorent said:

Nice troll

 

This

[VirtueXOA]

I think you should try another class (like KFM Destro or sin), and lets see if you reach same level :)

[Briseris]

Before making summoners playable, make BM playable lol, the points you mention are also true to them

[Dartaz]

Are you serious? summoner is one of the most easy characters in this game, you don't need to be a great player for win with a Summoner, but try with KFM and then tell me how great are you, kfm isn't easy you need low ping, reflects, brain and hands, or you will be defeat all the time...
If you really try to compare a summoner with a kfm, you really need to learn how play with your summoner, because i'm sure that you sucks...

[osirium]

21 hours ago, xtclikeafox said:

Currently summoner is very unbalanced against various classes. I have listed some issues and recommendations
in an effort to help balance classes  to encourage a fair skill-based match vs cheese insta wins for opponents. I know summoners get a lot of hate from beginners overwhelmed because we have a pet and there's two things to click on. None of our skills or playstyles are as broken as the classes listed below. There is one summoner that somehow made it to the top ten ranking. Currently six of the top 10 ranked players are kfm's which is an excellent indication of class balance.

 

destroyer-less dmg when enraged. this is particularly noticable in 3's. during an interfere no class compares to the sheer amount of dps from their "insta-kill" combo while enraged. That's probably why you see more destroyers in pvp then any other class. combined. People talk about destro bots all day. The dps is so cheese that its the go-to for botting.

 

kfm-either a dmg nerf or make escapes possible to use when stunned. With destroyer's high dps attacks you can at least use escapes. Against kfm's you are perma stunned. From full health to full dead you cannot use any skills,escapes,or move. This is retarded. Probably the most broken part of the entire game. No class should be able to completely kill their opponent in one unblockable combo. A lot of people complain about summoner cc's but its very easy to kite them. and if one does catch you then you can use escapes. Again...6/10 of the top 10 are kfms.

 

assassin-severly nerf stealth duration or invun time. I lose to sins in pvp more then any other class(most kfm ranked above me in diamond). The currently gameplay style is to basically kite around the outside and periodically throw max range poison bombs. Engaging as infrequently as possible and only when invunerability is up to ensure no dmg is received. When they play the highest priority is that stealth is never on cooldown. If you use escapes facing the opposite direction to close the gap and catch them then they just teleport themselves to the opposite side of the screen. Adding a pvp mechanic that requires a player to perform a preset number of skills during a round should be added so that every sin in arena isn't just waiting out the clock. Even if they are bad and you are at 80% health and they are at 10% health, for some reason, they still get the win when they wait the clock out. Classes should win in arena from fighting...not running from fights.

 

I was actually gonna say the same thing as some said which was "Troll detected" but i'll develop a bit more.

 

As a KFM main im gonna address that first, you said that Summoners are easily kited? That comment is indeed a troll comment to say the least since all the summoner gameplay is about kiting....KFM's dont and can't kite. As for our 100-0 stunlock, only top players can actually pull it off and even if most of us managed to get that we still need to get to you without any of your escapes up because if we mess it up then there's little to do other than knockdowns and knockups.

 

You are probably one of those players / summoners that TAB's or in your case I think your escape is on "2" in the very first CC you get caught on...learn to use it wisely. Every first round I rekt summoners in the next 2 ones all they do is run, run, run and....oh he's on cat's grapple let me get close now...the second im out its back to running again.

 

As for assassins, I hate assassins but to be honest I enjoy fighting them even though they are on stealth most of the time, there are ones that use the permastealth build other than run poison and there are even those that use crap tactics such as hit/poison and run away.

 

From what I can see these are the classes that give you the most hassle or trouble to play so lets just justify a nerf....all in all even the top summoners know and admit that the class is overpowered as it is. I have trouble against assassins but Im not asking for a nerf, from all the classes in the game the one's I respect the most are BM's cause they only truly shine at 50 AND with HM skill.

 

As for destroyers I agree to some extend that the sheer damage of their stunlock burst is quite high but as I said earlier....we need to learn how and when to use our escapes properly.

 

Enjoyed the post even if most of it doesn't have any fundament at all.

 

Regards

[xtclikeafox]

On 3/16/2016 at 5:52 AM, VirtueXOA said:

I think you should try another class (like KFM Destro or sin), and lets see if you reach same level :)

You must have failed to read the part about the extremely high congestion of highly ranked kfms.

 

On 3/16/2016 at 9:46 AM, Briseris said:

Before making summoners playable, make BM playable lol, the points you mention are also true to them

So true. I feel for you guys.

 

On 3/16/2016 at 11:39 AM, osirium said:

 

I was actually gonna say the same thing as some said which was "Troll detected" but i'll develop a bit more.

 

As a KFM main im gonna address that first, you said that Summoners are easily kited? That comment is indeed a troll comment to say the least since all the summoner gameplay is about kiting....KFM's dont and can't kite. As for our 100-0 stunlock, only top players can actually pull it off and even if most of us managed to get that we still need to get to you without any of your escapes up because if we mess it up then there's little to do other than knockdowns and knockups.

 

You are probably one of those players / summoners that TAB's or in your case I think your escape is on "2" in the very first CC you get caught on...learn to use it wisely. Every first round I rekt summoners in the next 2 ones all they do is run, run, run and....oh he's on cat's grapple let me get close now...the second im out its back to running again.

 

As for assassins, I hate assassins but to be honest I enjoy fighting them even though they are on stealth most of the time, there are ones that use the permastealth build other than run poison and there are even those that use crap tactics such as hit/poison and run away.

 

From what I can see these are the classes that give you the most hassle or trouble to play so lets just justify a nerf....all in all even the top summoners know and admit that the class is overpowered as it is. I have trouble against assassins but Im not asking for a nerf, from all the classes in the game the one's I respect the most are BM's cause they only truly shine at 50 AND with HM skill.

 

As for destroyers I agree to some extend that the sheer damage of their stunlock burst is quite high but as I said earlier....we need to learn how and when to use our escapes properly.

 

Enjoyed the post even if most of it doesn't have any fundament at all.

 

Regards

As i mentioned before, against destroyers you have escapes. Aagainst kfms you do not. Even if fully traited into counters/escapes...the stun locks make all of those, including skills and movement, unavailable. its not a matter of skill rotation, timing, or positioning. no part of the fight is in any way skill-based.

[amorent]

So, you have a hard time only against kfms according to you and demand for more buffs to your class? Maybe you want an instakill button too?

[Ketsura]

The real problem is Blade Masters.

 

All they do gave their health back, it's literally impossible something against them with a mid class.

 

Besides they stun and daze too much, I played with one, and I gave up when I escaped from his attacks, he was like 97% and I was already 40%

[dmoe33]

Ok im not being an a hole im just being straight up

1. you have no idea what ur talking about

2. u need to pvp more cause if thats what u think the classes need then sorry but ur wrong

3. every class has its own op thing most of which capitalizes on your mistakes and punishes u hard for them

4. summoner is VERY VERY easy to play u should be winning 90% of ur games if ur not then sorry but ur bad do more pvp to improve

5. this current skill patch is balanced for lvl 50 which we will get in hopefully about a monthish

If ur a summoner you should very easily be winning games if not its 100% ur fault not the games, ive used to think those things were stupid which tbh i kinda still think they are a little bit but thing is most of those things u mentioned come from ur mistakes and the opponent is punishing u for it harshly which is what happens in pvp. BNS arena is extremely unforgiving make 1 mistake and ur toast  if u dont like it stick to pve or go to another game